David Murray's interview on Setanta from the weekend

[wronglypenalised 14]

I think people fail to remember what Murray has done for us!

Ibrox being the prime example, we have a 5 star ueafa rated stadium which he paid for himself.

during the late 80s and throughout the 90s he has spent his own cash on players which granted did bring success. but this success also brought crippling debt which may have finished the club if it were not for murrays shred business sense.

we cant expect murray to put in the same amount of money he has done in the past, no matter how wealthy he is. he realises that it isnt good for business or the club in the long run.

Granted muray will always talk crap some times, but ask yourself where we would be without him?

murray paid for our new stadium.

That truly is the best smoke and mirrors act there has ever been, thrown in with a bit of time travel as well, I could have sworn there were stands already built before he arrived, maybe he means because he changed the seats from yellow, orange, and brown to blue that he thinks SDM built the stadium??

[Thermopylae 15,288]

I think people fail to remember what Murray has done for us!

Ibrox being the prime example, we have a 5 star ueafa rated stadium which he paid for himself.

during the late 80s and throughout the 90s he has spent his own cash on players which granted did bring success. but this success also brought crippling debt which may have finished the club if it were not for murrays shred business sense.

we cant expect murray to put in the same amount of money he has done in the past, no matter how wealthy he is. he realises that it isnt good for business or the club in the long run.

Granted muray will always talk crap some times, but ask yourself where we would be without him?

murray paid for our new stadium.

Apparently so

[ScotBear 144]

I've got no problem with Sir David, in fact I think he's been an excellent chairman over the course of his 20 year period.

Some folk try and nit pick. A bit like me saying Cuellar has had a great season, and then me being told I'm off my head because he scored an own goal, shipped a goal against Lyon, poor against Hearts........

Murray is an excellent chairman to have on board, and I've got full confidence in his ability to take us forward. We've been the dominant side during his 20 year reign, we've seen great players, the debt accumulated to allow us to see those great players was slashed by the man when he could have done a 'Ridsdale at Leeds', we have built a 3rd tier onto the main stand, have built an excellent training facility, a great manager back in place and exciting redevelopment plans in the oven (although I'm keeping my feet on the ground for now).

I know the internet is a place for the Murray bashers to get together and have a good 'Victor Meldrew' about, but the majority of Rangers fans are thankfully fully behind him and we'll move forward with him in charge. Look across the city at a club living under the same financial restrictions as us. Dermot fecking Desmond.......now that's depressing.

[BCLoyal9 53]

On Sunday, I watched a Sir David Murray interview on Setanta Sports before the upcoming match, that I was about to watch at home.

However, due to people being at the game, arguably people often not caring for the pre-match preview and for other reasons I thought I'd give you an outline of what Sir David said.

I had pre set the full-program so caught the interview!

• 1. We will spend (on players) if we make a profit but if we don't then we won't. Barring some unseen disaster , our profit by the end of the season should be more than healthy. See European progress and £9 million worth of Hutton cash for details.
  2. On the question if we're a selling club, he said that we'd only sell if it was a fiqure where it was seen we couldn't turn it down. Basically , anything more than derisory offer will be considered , and beyond that we will bite the hand off of your Newcastles and Tottenham Hotspurs
  3. Following on from that answer, he said that the offer for Alan Hutton was an offer that 'we as a board' could not turn down. He then said while Alan didn't initially want to go, he came round to the idea in that it would be in his best interests, financially, than what he could get in Scotland. Which is the most important thing at the end of the day
  4. On future signings - for next season - SDM said that Walter felt he didn't need his squad strengthend but wants two or three starters of a certain standard and thats what we'll be looking at in the summer. I eagerly await the arrival of the quality left back , attacking midfielder and forward we need to progress further as a team
  5. He noted that we have a very big squad, with Steven Smith, Alan Gow, Andy Webster, Thomas Buffel not regularly playing but we're still paying their wages. Yes , that much is true. Not that it wasn't blindingly obvious to everyone before but can't do any harm to remind us...
  6. The Chairmen then, pleasently, for me, said that there was 'an underbelly of young scottish youngsters coming through that could add to the squad'. Such things are always positive for fans and for the un-named youngsters that I assume he means last year's trophy winners. Always good to see home grown talent coming through , especially if we can dig another Hutton out of there. Eh dave?
  7. Also, he was at pains to say that the Hutton money is all very well but we're still paying off the transfer fees of Ferguson and Buffel.
• Won't even credit that with a coherent reply
  To conclude, he was then asked about the Ibrox development and he said that there had been in meetings with the councils and developers relating to across the road from the Stadium, Govan - Hinshelwood - and an announcement would be announced as soon as possible and the fans would be pleasantly surprised.
  For me, this wasn't a case of me backing or not giving my backing to the Chairman but really an article for your information as - rightly or wrongly - we often don't hear from the man at the top.
  Boab
  This is an article written by me, to be released by CR tomorrow.
  Good to hear something I guess, and the reference to the proposed stadium development is enticing. The rest left me rather underwhelmed.

[Boab 73]

I'm just very neutral over the topic tbh. Not really got a view, like David though from what he's achieved despite his disability.

That's pathetic.

Judge him as a man, not a disability.

Get a grip Danny, you probably know exactly what I meant. You just want to create an argument like usual.

I've never really formed a view on his tenure, past, present ot future. Never really been that interested in that side of things to any great extent.

However, my point was that he is an inspiration to me in that I'm disabled and can look to him and see how well he has done and particular at my club. He's 'worse' than me, then what can I do in life? I've got legs, just easily tired ones, while he hasn't any at all.

Your post reeked.

[Stardog 11]

I've got no problem with Sir David, in fact I think he's been an excellent chairman over the course of his 20 year period.

Some folk try and nit pick. A bit like me saying Cuellar has had a great season, and then me being told I'm off my head because he scored an own goal, shipped a goal against Lyon, poor against Hearts........

Murray is an excellent chairman to have on board, and I've got full confidence in his ability to take us forward. We've been the dominant side during his 20 year reign, we've seen great players, the debt accumulated to allow us to see those great players was slashed by the man when he could have done a 'Ridsdale at Leeds', we have built a 3rd tier onto the main stand, have built an excellent training facility, a great manager back in place and exciting redevelopment plans in the oven (although I'm keeping my feet on the ground for now).

I know the internet is a place for the Murray bashers to get together and have a good 'Victor Meldrew' about, but the majority of Rangers fans are thankfully fully behind him and we'll move forward with him in charge. Look across the city at a club living under the same financial restrictions as us. Dermot fecking Desmond.......now that's depressing.

Agreed.

And if anyone's moaning about us not buying players like Ferguson outright because of Boumsong money, you seem to forget that Rangers have huge debt and Hutton/Boumsong money has to get rid of it.

If some of our fans were in charge they'd run this club into the ground.

[BCLoyal9 53]

I've got no problem with Sir David, in fact I think he's been an excellent chairman over the course of his 20 year period.

Some folk try and nit pick. A bit like me saying Cuellar has had a great season, and then me being told I'm off my head because he scored an own goal, shipped a goal against Lyon, poor against Hearts........

Murray is an excellent chairman to have on board, and I've got full confidence in his ability to take us forward. We've been the dominant side during his 20 year reign, we've seen great players, the debt accumulated to allow us to see those great players was slashed by the man when he could have done a 'Ridsdale at Leeds', we have built a 3rd tier onto the main stand, have built an excellent training facility, a great manager back in place and exciting redevelopment plans in the oven (although I'm keeping my feet on the ground for now).

I know the internet is a place for the Murray bashers to get together and have a good 'Victor Meldrew' about, but the majority of Rangers fans are thankfully fully behind him and we'll move forward with him in charge. Look across the city at a club living under the same financial restrictions as us. Dermot fecking Desmond.......now that's depressing.

Agreed.

And if anyone's moaning about us not buying players like Ferguson outright because of Boumsong money, you seem to forget that Rangers have huge debt and Hutton/Boumsong money has to get rid of it.

If some of our fans were in charge they'd run this club into the ground.

Quite right , I mean its not as if that is exactly what happened anyway

[Bluedell 14]

I think people fail to remember what Murray has done for us!

Ibrox being the prime example, we have a 5 star ueafa rated stadium which he paid for himself.

during the late 80s and throughout the 90s he has spent his own cash on players which granted did bring success. but this success also brought crippling debt which may have finished the club if it were not for murrays shred business sense.

we cant expect murray to put in the same amount of money he has done in the past, no matter how wealthy he is. he realises that it isnt good for business or the club in the long run.

Granted muray will always talk crap some times, but ask yourself where we would be without him?

I presume you're on the wind-up? Murray put NO cash into the 1980s and 1990s, and the stadium was largely built when Murray arrived. the fans paid for the club deck to be added.

The crippling debt was due to Murray's financial mismanagement.

I do expect him to put the same amount into the club as he did during the 1980s and 1990s.

[Bluedell 14]

[*] On future signings - for next season - SDM said that Walter felt he didn't need his squad strengthend but wants two or three starters of a certain standard and thats what we'll be looking at in the summer.

Walter feels he doesn't need his squad strengthened? So he has no ambitions to qualify for the last 16 of the CL? Why are we looking to buy players if he doesn't need the squad strengthened? just to waste some cash? Murray talks a lot of crap at times.

[Thermopylae 15,288]

I've got no problem with Sir David, in fact I think he's been an excellent chairman over the course of his 20 year period.

Some folk try and nit pick. A bit like me saying Cuellar has had a great season, and then me being told I'm off my head because he scored an own goal, shipped a goal against Lyon, poor against Hearts........

Murray is an excellent chairman to have on board, and I've got full confidence in his ability to take us forward. We've been the dominant side during his 20 year reign, we've seen great players, the debt accumulated to allow us to see those great players was slashed by the man when he could have done a 'Ridsdale at Leeds', we have built a 3rd tier onto the main stand, have built an excellent training facility, a great manager back in place and exciting redevelopment plans in the oven (although I'm keeping my feet on the ground for now).

I know the internet is a place for the Murray bashers to get together and have a good 'Victor Meldrew' about, but the majority of Rangers fans are thankfully fully behind him and we'll move forward with him in charge. Look across the city at a club living under the same financial restrictions as us. Dermot fecking Desmond.......now that's depressing.

Agreed.

And if anyone's moaning about us not buying players like Ferguson outright because of Boumsong money, you seem to forget that Rangers have huge debt and Hutton/Boumsong money has to get rid of it.

If some of our fans were in charge they'd run this club into the ground.

Quite right , I mean its not as if that is exactly what happened anyway

You're quite right, that was Murray's job

[bluebells-r-blue 8]

I don't understand the Murray bashers, if you ask supporters of other clubs what they think of SDM, I bet you all of them would welcome him with open arms, he has given us 20 years of stability including niar. We can't compete with the premiership due to SKY cash, also can you tell me which premiership chairman is bankrolling their non profitable clubs on a day to day basis, fair enough they might stick a wedge in now and again as a quick fix, but I bet you they will have safeguards to ensure it will be regarded as a loan (possibly interest free).

You will miss him when he's gone!

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

I've got no problem with Sir David, in fact I think he's been an excellent chairman over the course of his 20 year period.

Some folk try and nit pick. A bit like me saying Cuellar has had a great season, and then me being told I'm off my head because he scored an own goal, shipped a goal against Lyon, poor against Hearts........

Murray is an excellent chairman to have on board, and I've got full confidence in his ability to take us forward. We've been the dominant side during his 20 year reign, we've seen great players, the debt accumulated to allow us to see those great players was slashed by the man when he could have done a 'Ridsdale at Leeds', we have built a 3rd tier onto the main stand, have built an excellent training facility, a great manager back in place and exciting redevelopment plans in the oven (although I'm keeping my feet on the ground for now).

I know the internet is a place for the Murray bashers to get together and have a good 'Victor Meldrew' about, but the majority of Rangers fans are thankfully fully behind him and we'll move forward with him in charge. Look across the city at a club living under the same financial restrictions as us. Dermot fecking Desmond.......now that's depressing.

Excellent post - its a shame that such an excellent Chairman should have to be defended - but then I guess there are still some on here that see WS as a poor manager (go figure). SDM has taken no money from Rangers, in fact he has only put money in. Yes he allowed the club to get into debt but he did also bail it out.

We live in cloud cukoo land if we think that we can afford to turn down decent money for any player.

[Frankie 505]

David Murray is entitled to criticism just like anyone else.

Of course his reign has had some excellent points but his failure to build properly on the successes of the early-mid 90s and his disgraceful financial mismanagement thereafter means we've had 7 years of downsizing, sporadic titles and little value for money overall.

Fortunately, he does appear willing to try and rectify his mistakes of the turn of the century but I'd much prefer to see concrete plans for the future before deciding if he's at last showing the kind of vision and ambition that should have been implemented in the mid 90s.

If he'd done that then, then he could really be considered a genuine hero. As it stands the jury is out on that one for me.

[Bluedell 14]

we've seen great players, the debt accumulated to allow us to see those great players was slashed by the man when he could have done a 'Ridsdale at Leeds'

It's a bit of a myth that the debt was accumulated buying "great players". There was effectively no debt in June 2000 (if looked at in the same way as it is today). The debt was therefore run up buying the likes of Flo, Konterman, Nerlinger, Ricksen etc, and on failed ventures such as buying Northern Spirit.

[minstral 5,375]

I don't understand the Murray bashers, if you ask supporters of other clubs what they think of SDM, I bet you all of them would welcome him with open arms, he has given us 20 years of stability including niar. We can't compete with the premiership due to SKY cash, also can you tell me which premiership chairman is bankrolling their non profitable clubs on a day to day basis, fair enough they might stick a wedge in now and again as a quick fix, but I bet you they will have safeguards to ensure it will be regarded as a loan (possibly interest free).

You will miss him when he's gone!

how can you miss a man who has taken rangers out of the rangers.

[ScotBear 144]

David Murray is entitled to criticism just like anyone else.

Of course his reign has had some excellent points but his failure to build properly on the successes of the early-mid 90s and his disgraceful financial mismanagement thereafter means we've had 7 years of downsizing, sporadic titles and little value for money overall.

Fortunately, he does appear willing to try and rectify his mistakes of the turn of the century but I'd much prefer to see concrete plans for the future before deciding if he's at last showing the kind of vision and ambition that should have been implemented in the mid 90s.

If he'd done that then, then he could really be considered a genuine hero. As it stands the jury is out on that one for me.

He is entitled to criticism, but it's the level of criticism you find amongst internet fans which is ridiculous, particularly on forums such as Follow Follow where it's outright, sustained personal abuse of the man which is not just accepted but applauded.

The financial mismanagement did allow us to buy, pay the wages of and watch some great players (9 in a row) and the best football I have ever seen, and probably ever will see, under Advocaat and his side. Personally, I wouldn't give those memories up. We had to downsize as a result (a lot of clubs around europe did when the financial bubble burst, again, Leeds being the prime example), but we still enjoyed decent success. I'm sure a lot of Rangers fans could talk about darker days than the memories we've got of two last day title wins and being the first Scottish club to reach the last 16. We didn't go longer than 2 years without a title win, so it needs to be put into perspective. The Old Firm is a yo-yo, who is the dominant force will always swing back and forward and with that though a quote springs to mind.......

"Never fear, inevitably we shall have our years of failure, and when they arrive, we must reveal tolerance and sanity. No matter the days of anxiety that come our way, we shall emerge stronger because of the trials to be overcome."

We did show ambition in the 90's, it's just that unfortunately it was an ambition that lacked the foresight of the financial collapse that was to hit football. We've taken a blow, as did a lot of other clubs, and crucially Murray did not walk away as other Chairmen would and did. He reduced the debt by £50m, guided us through a tough period and now we've come through that, both in terms of on and off field success. And in terms of on field success, that is largely due to Murrays decision to appoint Smith, a move that a lot of fans were very unsure about including myself, but has proven to be a golden appointment.

[Bluedell 14]

The financial mismanagement did allow us to buy, pay the wages of and watch some great players (9 in a row) and the best football I have ever seen, and probably ever will see, under Advocaat and his side. Personally, I wouldn't give those memories up. We had to downsize as a result (a lot of clubs around europe did when the financial bubble burst, again, Leeds being the prime example), but we still enjoyed decent success. I'm sure a lot of Rangers fans could talk about darker days than the memories we've got of two last day title wins and being the first Scottish club to reach the last 16. We've didn't go longer than 2 years without a title win, so it needs to be put into perspective. The Old Firm is a yo-yo, who is the dominant force will always swing back and forward and with that though a quote springs to mind.......

"Never fear, inevitably we shall have our years of failure, and when they arrive, we must reveal tolerance and sanity. No matter the days of anxiety that come our way, we shall emerge stronger because of the trials to be overcome."

We did show ambition in the 90's, it's just that unfortunately it was an ambition that lacked the foresight of the financial collapse that was to hit football. We've taken a blow, as did a lot of other clubs, and crucially Murray did not walk away as other Chairmen would and did. He reduced the debt by £50m, guided us through a tough period and now we've come through that, both in terms of on and off field success. And in terms of on field success, that is largely due to Murrays decision to appoint Smith, a move that a lot of fans were very unsure about including myself, but has proven to be a golden appointment.

The debt was not built up during NIAR and Advocaat's first 2 seasons. The major financial mismanagement came after that.

Reducing the debt was obviously a good thing but it shopuld be remembered that given his plans to sell, all he has done is increase the amount that he will get when he sells the club by a similar amount.

[Frankie 505]

He is entitled to criticism, but it's the level of criticism you find amongst internet fans which is ridiculous, particularly on forums such as Follow Follow where it's outright, sustained personal abuse of the man which is not just accepted but applauded.

The financial mismanagement did allow us to buy, pay the wages of and watch some great players (9 in a row) and the best football I have ever seen, and probably ever will see, under Advocaat and his side. Personally, I wouldn't give those memories up. We had to downsize as a result (a lot of clubs around europe did when the financial bubble burst, again, Leeds being the prime example), but we still enjoyed decent success. I'm sure a lot of Rangers fans could talk about darker days than the memories we've got of two last day title wins and being the first Scottish club to reach the last 16. We've didn't go longer than 2 years without a title win, so it needs to be put into perspective. The Old Firm is a yo-yo, who is the dominant force will always swing back and forward and with that though a quote springs to mind.......

"Never fear, inevitably we shall have our years of failure, and when they arrive, we must reveal tolerance and sanity. No matter the days of anxiety that come our way, we shall emerge stronger because of the trials to be overcome."

We did show ambition in the 90's, it's just that unfortunately it was an ambition that lacked the foresight of the financial collapse that was to hit football. We've taken a blow, as did a lot of other clubs, and crucially Murray did not walk away as other Chairmen would and did. He reduced the debt by £50m, guided us through a tough period and now we've come through that, both in terms of on and off field success. And in terms of on field success, that is largely due to Murrays decision to appoint Smith, a move that a lot of fans were very unsure about including myself, but has proven to be a golden appointment.

I don't think FF is any worse than anywhere else when it comes to such criticism. Sure there is more of it and more of the more extremist stuff but only because of the site numbers as opposed to genuine difference of opinion from any other forum - including here.

The financial mismanagement I mentioned didn't involve 9iar. As BlueDell has said in this thread (and as I've shown several times previously) our club was in a very healthy state around the time of DA's appointment. It was only after that the problems started.

I only suggest SDM lacked genuine forethought in the mid-late 90s - such as further stadium expansion and/or built a training facility/youth academy at that time - given the healthy state of the finances and our dominance over Celtic. If he'd done that instead of wasting over £100million on what was some good football but no real European penetration or home dominance, then we would have been set for the future before the collapse kicked in.

Instead, we saw tens of millions wasted on ordinary players, our stadium capacity fell well behind Celtic's and a facility built that - though exciting - could have been much better. All resulting in a downsizing period which showed us falling behind Celtic and with a club with little room for manoeuvre financially.

Sure, SDM does deserve some credit for not leaving us in the sh!t. However, you forget he did walk away and he left others to do the hard work for him. His £50million injection was important but again that was only after the fans and investors rejected his share issue because of his past record. And to benefit his parent company of course.

Further genuine investment is still far off because people doubt his commitment and his ability to share our ambitions. That's not OTT criticism but fact and while the signs for the future are positive, I don't think we can blame anyone for distrusting what he says in such interviews. Not to mention their valid lack of respect for a man who has allowed our club to be treated unfairly by a number of different parties.

Some people go too far in their criticism. That's a given but I think it's also too easy for the converse to happen with people who will not appreciate the problems David Murray has caused in the latter half of his tenure.

[ScotBear 144]

1) I don't think FF is any worse than anywhere else when it comes to such criticism.

2) wasting over £100million

3) our stadium capacity fell well behind Celtic's and a facility built that - though exciting - could have been much better.

4) downsizing period which showed us falling behind Celtic

5) However, you forget he did walk away and he left others to do the hard work for him.

6) His £50million injection was important

7) Further genuine investment is still far off because people doubt his commitment and his ability to share our ambitions.

8) allowed our club to be treated unfairly by a number of different parties.

9) Some people go too far in their criticism. That's a given but I think it's also too easy for the converse to happen with people who will not appreciate the problems David Murray has caused in the latter half of his tenure.

1) The place is hate filled. Calling the man scum, the devil, w@nker......every insult you can imagine. Loads of avators and signanatures filled with abuse towards him. Particularly bad during the end of McLeish's reign, not so bad since we started winning again though.........no more protests on the horizon it seems either. They certainly stick by their principles, eh ?

2) Seriously, £100m purely spent during the Advocaat era ? Not disputing that, I just wouldn't have guessed it and can't get close to that figure from the buys and sales I can remember in my head.

3) We have added a third tier during Murray's reign, lowered the pitch too to add seats too I think and added some to the corners. More expansion on the way, but in terms of being behind Celtic in terms of capacity......that's schoolboy stuff for me. Not phased by that fact at all. We don't fill the ground most games as it is anyway. I also think it's well off saying that our faciltity 'could have been better', rather than just praising it for what it is. Regarded as one of the best facilities in europe. And if you want to compare us to Celtic......then yeah, it's better than theirs.

4) We fell behind Celtic, but as I've said, the Old Firm is a yo-yo, both clubs will be up and down. We've already caught up on them, on and off the pitch, and are now ahead of them.

5) He stepped down from the public eye for a short time, but I understand he was very much hands on still and did indeed continue to make the big decisions and do the hard work. With the bad feeling growing amongst a section of the support, it probably wasn't a bad idea for him to step out of the limelight to take the focus of himself and concentrate on setting the foundations to get us back to where we are today.

6) A bloody god send ! I know he had a moral obligation to get us out of it, but as I've said, he could have walked, and other chairmen did. Where would Leeds be now if Ridsdale had cut £50m off their debt ? Probably still in the Premier League.

7) I just think people aren't stupid and don't want to invest in an SPL club. Give us a shout Davie if you ever make it into the Premiership or a european league would be the general feeling, I'd imagine.

8) As I've said before, I find this well over the top and just more schoolboy stuff. Speirs, yep, huge problem with him. So cheers Davie for this....... http://www.rangers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Ne...~693937,00.html and the resulting PR blow The Herald and Speirs took in a number of other media sources (papers/radio.....). Within that statement, Murray explains his reasoning for not going after other media sources publically, and I can't see anything wrong with his stance. Seems sensible to me. And I can't see any other source to go after besides Herald/Speirs at that time, because nobody else is/was consistently offensive. I know for a fact that Murray is hands on behind the scenes in this respect, and does make crystal clear to papers/radio when he's unhappy with something that's been said. Much more active than Celtic in this respect over the years from people I know from radio Clyde, for example.

9) I always like to look at the big picture. He's been here for 20 years, a long time, so mistakes and upsets are inevitable. But over that 20 year period, what's Murray's reign been like for me as a fan ? Damn good for the vast majority of it. What does the future look like ? Very bright. So that for me is the bottom line, and why I back him to continue as our chairman.

[outlaw69uk 123]

I find these threads hilarious, personally. Also, I have no real opinion on the whole is he good or the devil argument. I think as Frankie states, there are good and bad associated with him.

He is also in a lose lose situation with some fans, or at least, those who frequent internet forums. We want him to show ambition, defend the club and spend spend spend on quality players, which, is dead on the money for what we want and expect, however, he did that in the past, which is now called "financial mismanagement" and moonbeams, and he is pillorised for it. As for taking the Rangers out of Rangers, Billy Boys was my favourite song to sing at games, but, faced with the choice of being kicked out of European competition, or stop singing it, its a no brainer. I think we were unfairly targetted, but, the stance taken on that matter was with the best interests of the club in mind, crap as it might be.

Some things seem to have been tried in the past and failed, plus, there is a huge lack of trust relating to the club at the moment, by that I mean, (and am generalising here) "we" dont trust the chairman, "we" dont trust the manager at times relating to transfers, selections, tactics etc, and we dont trust the players to get the job done on the pitch. But, at the end of the day, even though we are far from convincing, we are getting the job done, so far.

I know this is a forum to discuss these things, but, for me, the time for Murray bashing isnt now. According to all the releases, we will know what is (or isnt!) happening with this development before the start of next season. The ideal time to address this is probably just before the start of the season, once we see who has been brought in and how much ambition is shown about where we are going?

I personally dont have any inside knowledge (even though my great uncle was a director lol), but, am away now to the Buraeux Van Dyke website (i have access through work) to check on the last 5 years financial figures, just out of interest! Since, there seem to be a lot of people here with far more information than me.

As for Murray, no opinion on the man really, some good things, some bad things, so, that makes him uh, ok i suppose in my book. THings seem to be picking up, so, if its true, then, that will perhaps help

[minstral 5,375]

I find these threads hilarious, personally. Also, I have no real opinion on the whole is he good or the devil argument. I think as Frankie states, there are good and bad associated with him.

He is also in a lose lose situation with some fans, or at least, those who frequent internet forums. We want him to show ambition, defend the club and spend spend spend on quality players, which, is dead on the money for what we want and expect, however, he did that in the past, which is now called "financial mismanagement" and moonbeams, and he is pillorised for it. As for taking the Rangers out of Rangers, Billy Boys was my favourite song to sing at games, but, faced with the choice of being kicked out of European competition, or stop singing it, its a no brainer. I think we were unfairly targetted, but, the stance taken on that matter was with the best interests of the club in mind, crap as it might be.

Some things seem to have been tried in the past and failed, plus, there is a huge lack of trust relating to the club at the moment, by that I mean, (and am generalising here) "we" dont trust the chairman, "we" dont trust the manager at times relating to transfers, selections, tactics etc, and we dont trust the players to get the job done on the pitch. But, at the end of the day, even though we are far from convincing, we are getting the job done, so far.

I know this is a forum to discuss these things, but, for me, the time for Murray bashing isnt now. According to all the releases, we will know what is (or isnt!) happening with this development before the start of next season. The ideal time to address this is probably just before the start of the season, once we see who has been brought in and how much ambition is shown about where we are going?

I personally dont have any inside knowledge (even though my great uncle was a director lol), but, am away now to the Buraeux Van Dyke website (i have access through work) to check on the last 5 years financial figures, just out of interest! Since, there seem to be a lot of people here with far more information than me.

As for Murray, no opinion on the man really, some good things, some bad things, so, that makes him uh, ok i suppose in my book. THings seem to be picking up, so, if its true, then, that will perhaps help

outlaw he is a first class wanker he cares nothing about our fans, all he wants is our cash and the quicker him , bain, and that other celtic lover scott get to f--k, the club will be a better place.

[Frankie 505]

1) The place is hate filled. Calling the man scum, the devil, w@nker......every insult you can imagine. Loads of avators and signanatures filled with abuse towards him. Particularly bad during the end of McLeish's reign, not so bad since we started winning again though.........no more protests on the horizon it seems either. Stick by your principles, eh ?

2) Seriously, £100m purely spent during the Advocaat era ? Not disputing that, I just wouldn't have guessed it and can't get close to that figure from the buys and sales I can remember in my head.

3) We have added a third tier during Murray's reign, lowered the pitch too to add seats too I think and added some to the corners. More expansion on the way, but in terms of being behind Celtic in terms of capacity......that's schoolboy stuff for me. Not phased by that fact at all. We don't fill the ground most games as it is anyway. I also think it's well off saying that our faciltity 'could have been better', rather than just praising it for what it is. Regarded as one of the best facilities in europe. And if you want to compare us to Celtic......then yeah, it's better than theirs.

4) We fell behind Celtic, but as I've said, the Old Firm is a yo-yo, both clubs will be up and down. We've already caught up on them, on and off the pitch, and are now ahead of them.

5) He stepped down from the public eye for a short time, but I understand he was very much hands on still and did indeed continue to make the big decisions and do the hard work. With the bad feeling growing amongst a section of the support, it probably wasn't a bad idea for him to step out of the limelight to take the focus of himself and concentrate on setting the foundations to get us back to where we are today.

6) A bloody god send ! I know he had a moral obligation to get us out of it, but as I've said, he could have walked, and other chairmen did. Where would Leeds be now if Ridsdale had cut £50m off their debt ? Probably still in the Premier League.

7) I just think people aren't stupid and don't want to invest in an SPL club. Give us a shout Davie if you ever make it into the Premiership or a european league would be the general feeling, I'd imagine.

8) As I've said before, I find this well over the top and just more schoolboy stuff. Speirs, yep, huge problem with him. So cheers Davie for this....... http://www.rangers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Ne...~693937,00.html and the resulting PR blow The Herald and Speirs took in a number of other media sources (papers/radio.....). Within that statement, Murray explains his reasoning for not going after other media sources publically, and I can't see anything wrong with his stance. Seems sensible to me. And I can't see any other source to go after besides Herald/Speirs at that time, because nobody else is/was consistently offensive. I know for a fact that Murray is hands on behind the scenes in this respect, and does make crystal clear to papers/radio when he's unhappy with something that's been said. Much more active than Celtic in this respect over the years from people I know from radio Clyde, for example.

9) I always like to look at the big picture. He's been here for 20 years, a long time, so mistakes and upsets are inevitable. But over that 20 year period, what's Murray's reign been like for me as a fan ? Damn good for the vast majority of it. What does the future look like ? Very bright. So that for me is the bottom line, and why I back him to continue as our chairman.

1. There have always been much better ways of protesting about the way the club have been run. Insults on forums isn't one of them and I don't think it's as bad as you're making out. And of course, one could say that the criticism the chairman did receive ensured a higher level of commitment from him in many ways.

2. IIRC (BlueDell will confirm) around 1998/99 the club was £20million in the black. By 2002 it was £83million in the red. Not all on players but the vast majority of it was (including wages obviously).

3. The third tier was over-priced according to experts. The corners only partly done with screens that had added little in terms of value. With the money invested into the club by ENIC, Lewis et al better improvements could have been made. Also a difference of around £5million per season in season ticket revenue isn't school-boys stuff - better stadium or not. Why do you think he wants to expand now?

4. Of course Kaos Theory has it's part to play. However it can be influenced with genuine vision, ambition and management. Murray supporters suggest he has all that. He hasn't as we've shown. And we may be about to win the league but we're still behind Celtic financially which is a crucial aspect of Scottish football nowadays. That's because of SDM's past mismanagement.

5. He was not very much hands on. He semi-retired and still is in many ways. Of course he always pulls the strings but leaving for 3 years (hardly a short time!) isn't the kind of leadership I expect from the person responsible for the mistakes. Ergo, it's unfair to suggest he was responsible for the financial turnaround when he wasn't - he left that to McLelland and Bain. A true leader would have accepted the criticism and led from the front - not walked away (even in part).

6. He had to do it for his own ego and his own parent company. I note you ignore the fact he only did after asking us to bail him out first. Hardly someone trying to atone for his own mistakes unless absolutely necessary of course.

7. People do want to invest. Just not with him at the helm. Sure maybe not as much as the days of 1998 but then who would trust the man with their money. Ask Joe Lewis and ENIC.

8. It's not schoolboy stuff. Our club has been punished by UEFA, by the SPL and is continually vilified by the media. Our own club targets our own fans even although others couldn't care - see Dublin Loyal. One statement telling the fans not to buy the papers is all well and good but I expect my chairman to stand up for us much better. As it stands in Scotland, for any neutral being a Rangers fan means being a bigot. That's unacceptable and all because of the likes of Spiers et al who write what they want while our club do nothing.

9. I agree for the most part there have been many successes. David Murray helped breathe life into Rangers but he's also caused problems and I think I've mentioned the main ones. All I'm saying is that both sides of the debate should appreciate the good and the bad. Too many ignore that unfortunately.

10. I'm also looking forward to the future but many unanswered questions remain. Will we win the title? How much can we spend in the summer? What is the future of Ibrox? What is the future of the chairman? Why are people not investing into the club? Why won't our club stand up for it's good name? Why are the fans still feeling isolated? What are the short-medium-long term plans for the club? When will we get new blood on the plc board?

I don't see these questions being answered so I remain cautious and dubious as long as SDM fails to answer them.

[minstral 5,375]

1) The place is hate filled. Calling the man scum, the devil, w@nker......every insult you can imagine. Loads of avators and signanatures filled with abuse towards him. Particularly bad during the end of McLeish's reign, not so bad since we started winning again though.........no more protests on the horizon it seems either. Stick by your principles, eh ?

2) Seriously, £100m purely spent during the Advocaat era ? Not disputing that, I just wouldn't have guessed it and can't get close to that figure from the buys and sales I can remember in my head.

3) We have added a third tier during Murray's reign, lowered the pitch too to add seats too I think and added some to the corners. More expansion on the way, but in terms of being behind Celtic in terms of capacity......that's schoolboy stuff for me. Not phased by that fact at all. We don't fill the ground most games as it is anyway. I also think it's well off saying that our faciltity 'could have been better', rather than just praising it for what it is. Regarded as one of the best facilities in europe. And if you want to compare us to Celtic......then yeah, it's better than theirs.

4) We fell behind Celtic, but as I've said, the Old Firm is a yo-yo, both clubs will be up and down. We've already caught up on them, on and off the pitch, and are now ahead of them.

5) He stepped down from the public eye for a short time, but I understand he was very much hands on still and did indeed continue to make the big decisions and do the hard work. With the bad feeling growing amongst a section of the support, it probably wasn't a bad idea for him to step out of the limelight to take the focus of himself and concentrate on setting the foundations to get us back to where we are today.

6) A bloody god send ! I know he had a moral obligation to get us out of it, but as I've said, he could have walked, and other chairmen did. Where would Leeds be now if Ridsdale had cut £50m off their debt ? Probably still in the Premier League.

7) I just think people aren't stupid and don't want to invest in an SPL club. Give us a shout Davie if you ever make it into the Premiership or a european league would be the general feeling, I'd imagine.

8) As I've said before, I find this well over the top and just more schoolboy stuff. Speirs, yep, huge problem with him. So cheers Davie for this....... http://www.rangers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Ne...~693937,00.html and the resulting PR blow The Herald and Speirs took in a number of other media sources (papers/radio.....). Within that statement, Murray explains his reasoning for not going after other media sources publically, and I can't see anything wrong with his stance. Seems sensible to me. And I can't see any other source to go after besides Herald/Speirs at that time, because nobody else is/was consistently offensive. I know for a fact that Murray is hands on behind the scenes in this respect, and does make crystal clear to papers/radio when he's unhappy with something that's been said. Much more active than Celtic in this respect over the years from people I know from radio Clyde, for example.

9) I always like to look at the big picture. He's been here for 20 years, a long time, so mistakes and upsets are inevitable. But over that 20 year period, what's Murray's reign been like for me as a fan ? Damn good for the vast majority of it. What does the future look like ? Very bright. So that for me is the bottom line, and why I back him to continue as our chairman.

1. There have always been much better ways of protesting about the way the club have been run. Insults on forums isn't one of them and I don't think it's as bad as you're making out. And of course, one could say that the criticism the chairman did receive ensured a higher level of commitment from him in many ways.

2. IIRC (BlueDell will confirm) around 1998/99 the club was £20million in the black. By 2002 it was £83million in the red. Not all on players but the vast majority of it was (including wages obviously).

3. The third tier was over-priced according to experts. The corners only partly done with screens that had added little in terms of value. With the money invested into the club by ENIC, Lewis et al better improvements could have been made. Also a difference of around £5million per season in season ticket revenue isn't school-boys stuff - better stadium or not. Why do you think he wants to expand now?

4. Of course Kaos Theory has it's part to play. However it can be influenced with genuine vision, ambition and management. Murray supporters suggest he has all that. He hasn't as we've shown. And we may be about to win the league but we're still behind Celtic financially which is a crucial aspect of Scottish football nowadays. That's because of SDM's past mismanagement.

5. He was not very much hands on. He semi-retired and still is in many ways. Of course he always pulls the strings but leaving for 3 years (hardly a short time!) isn't the kind of leadership I expect from the person responsible for the mistakes. Ergo, it's unfair to suggest he was responsible for the financial turnaround when he wasn't - he left that to McLelland and Bain. A true leader would have accepted the criticism and led from the front - not walked away (even in part).

6. He had to do it for his own ego and his own parent company. I note you ignore the fact he only did after asking us to bail him out first. Hardly someone trying to atone for his own mistakes unless absolutely necessary of course.

7. People do want to invest. Just not with him at the helm. Sure maybe not as much as the days of 1998 but then who would trust the man with their money. Ask Joe Lewis and ENIC.

8. It's not schoolboy stuff. Our club has been punished by UEFA, by the SPL and is continually vilified by the media. Our own club targets our own fans even although others couldn't care - see Dublin Loyal. One statement telling the fans not to buy the papers is all well and good but I expect my chairman to stand up for us much better. As it stands in Scotland, for any neutral being a Rangers fan means being a bigot. That's unacceptable and all because of the likes of Spiers et al who write what they want while our club do nothing.

9. I agree for the most part there have been many successes. David Murray helped breathe life into Rangers but he's also caused problems and I think I've mentioned the main ones. All I'm saying is that both sides of the debate should appreciate the good and the bad. Too many ignore that unfortunately.

10. I'm also looking forward to the future but many unanswered questions remain. Will we win the title? How much can we spend in the summer? What is the future of Ibrox? What is the future of the chairman? Why are people not investing into the club? Why won't our club stand up for it's good name? Why are the fans still feeling isolated? What are the short-medium-long term plans for the club? When will we get new blood on the plc board?

I don't see these questions being answered so I remain cautious and dubious as long as SDM fails to answer them.

frankie a top class post and i only wish i could post it the way that you do, but i am not as brainy as you, and as you know my english is not very good but you have just said what i would like to posted.

[outlaw69uk 123]

I find these threads hilarious, personally. Also, I have no real opinion on the whole is he good or the devil argument. I think as Frankie states, there are good and bad associated with him.

He is also in a lose lose situation with some fans, or at least, those who frequent internet forums. We want him to show ambition, defend the club and spend spend spend on quality players, which, is dead on the money for what we want and expect, however, he did that in the past, which is now called "financial mismanagement" and moonbeams, and he is pillorised for it. As for taking the Rangers out of Rangers, Billy Boys was my favourite song to sing at games, but, faced with the choice of being kicked out of European competition, or stop singing it, its a no brainer. I think we were unfairly targetted, but, the stance taken on that matter was with the best interests of the club in mind, crap as it might be.

Some things seem to have been tried in the past and failed, plus, there is a huge lack of trust relating to the club at the moment, by that I mean, (and am generalising here) "we" dont trust the chairman, "we" dont trust the manager at times relating to transfers, selections, tactics etc, and we dont trust the players to get the job done on the pitch. But, at the end of the day, even though we are far from convincing, we are getting the job done, so far.

I know this is a forum to discuss these things, but, for me, the time for Murray bashing isnt now. According to all the releases, we will know what is (or isnt!) happening with this development before the start of next season. The ideal time to address this is probably just before the start of the season, once we see who has been brought in and how much ambition is shown about where we are going?

I personally dont have any inside knowledge (even though my great uncle was a director lol), but, am away now to the Buraeux Van Dyke website (i have access through work) to check on the last 5 years financial figures, just out of interest! Since, there seem to be a lot of people here with far more information than me.

As for Murray, no opinion on the man really, some good things, some bad things, so, that makes him uh, ok i suppose in my book. THings seem to be picking up, so, if its true, then, that will perhaps help

outlaw he is a first class wanker he cares nothing about our fans, all he wants is our cash and the quicker him , bain, and that other celtic lover scott get to f--k, the club will be a better place.

I know mate, he does appear that way, but, was less obvious to start with. I suppose, in a way, part of me hopes he comes good on the moonbeams that have come out recently, because, I think, he actually needs to earn the trust of the fans again, even if he is going.

Plus, the reaction if the wonderful plpans being touted actually happened could be fun eh

[ScotBear 144]

1. There have always been much better ways of protesting about the way the club have been run. Insults on forums isn't one of them and I don't think it's as bad as you're making out. And of course, one could say that the criticism the chairman did receive ensured a higher level of commitment from him in many ways.

2. IIRC (BlueDell will confirm) around 1998/99 the club was £20million in the black. By 2002 it was £83million in the red. Not all on players but the vast majority of it was (including wages obviously).

3. The third tier was over-priced according to experts. The corners only partly done with screens that had added little in terms of value. With the money invested into the club by ENIC, Lewis et al better improvements could have been made. Also a difference of around £5million per season in season ticket revenue isn't school-boys stuff - better stadium or not. Why do you think he wants to expand now?

4. Of course Kaos Theory has it's part to play. However it can be influenced with genuine vision, ambition and management. Murray supporters suggest he has all that. He hasn't as we've shown. And we may be about to win the league but we're still behind Celtic financially which is a crucial aspect of Scottish football nowadays. That's because of SDM's past mismanagement.

5. He was not very much hands on. He semi-retired and still is in many ways. Of course he always pulls the strings but leaving for 3 years (hardly a short time!) isn't the kind of leadership I expect from the person responsible for the mistakes. Ergo, it's unfair to suggest he was responsible for the financial turnaround when he wasn't - he left that to McLelland and Bain. A true leader would have accepted the criticism and led from the front - not walked away (even in part).

6. He had to do it for his own ego and his own parent company. I note you ignore the fact he only did after asking us to bail him out first. Hardly someone trying to atone for his own mistakes unless absolutely necessary of course.

7. People do want to invest. Just not with him at the helm. Sure maybe not as much as the days of 1998 but then who would trust the man with their money. Ask Joe Lewis and ENIC.

8. It's not schoolboy stuff. Our club has been punished by UEFA, by the SPL and is continually vilified by the media. Our own club targets our own fans even although others couldn't care - see Dublin Loyal. One statement telling the fans not to buy the papers is all well and good but I expect my chairman to stand up for us much better. As it stands in Scotland, for any neutral being a Rangers fan means being a bigot. That's unacceptable and all because of the likes of Spiers et al who write what they want while our club do nothing.

9. I agree for the most part there have been many successes. David Murray helped breathe life into Rangers but he's also caused problems and I think I've mentioned the main ones. All I'm saying is that both sides of the debate should appreciate the good and the bad. Too many ignore that unfortunately.

10. I'm also looking forward to the future but many unanswered questions remain. Will we win the title? How much can we spend in the summer? What is the future of Ibrox? What is the future of the chairman? Why are people not investing into the club? Why won't our club stand up for it's good name? Why are the fans still feeling isolated? What are the short-medium-long term plans for the club? When will we get new blood on the plc board?

I don't see these questions being answered so I remain cautious and dubious as long as SDM fails to answer them.

1) I don't think I'm exaggerating it at all, I am disgusted by a sizeable number of posters on that site (not just with regards to Murray, just general behaviour) and any outsiders looking in would get a more damaging view of our support than anything the general media ever do. There are a lot of great posters on FollowFollow though, it's just a shame that there is a very vocal section that bring it down. But no point in taking that point any further, that's just my experience and take on it.

2) Around £63m then.......that's closer to what I thought.

3) You have to get bums on seats to make that money. If we can't fill a 52,000 seater for most games, we wouldn't fill a 70,000. I think he wants to expand it now because with the redevelopment plans in the mix, if we are ever going to do it now would be the time. A lot of fans want ours to be 'bigger' than Celtic's, and I just think he's meeting that demand. Financially, I don't think the benefit of the extra seats will be that great.

4) I think there has been vision and ambition with the training facility and previous/future stadium developments. We also showed ambition during 9 in a row and Advocaat by trying to bring in the best players we possibly could to the Scottish game. We were never just content to just do enough, and looked to bring star quality to the side. Hopefully we can now continue to do that again in future, whilst being more aware of our financial restrictions.

5) I don't accept at all that it was McLelland and Bain that played the biggest part in turning the ship around. As far as I'm aware, it was Murray who was still the driving force in making the necessary changes to getting us back on firm financial footing and that he was still very much firmly hands on. I think too many look into the fact that he merely took himself out of the public eye.

6) He offered shares to fans, but what is the problem with that ? No guns were being put to our heads, and some fans actually like the option of getting involved in that way. He made clear that he would be putting forward the money regardless of what the fans did.

7) I'll watch with interest when Murray leaves then and all these investors come out of the woodwork to invest in us.

8) I can't add any more to what I've already said. Some of the tit for tat crap I see from both sets of fans is just tedious, searching out every little thing to get offended about. As for UEFA, we made a public complaint against the Spanish police for the treatment of our fans and made an official complaint to UEFA. If any fans want us to come out and publically defend fans for singing the line 'up to our knees in f*nian blood' (and yes I acknowledge and sympathise with the defence) then they are off their heads.

9) Yeah, I agree but it's the Murray bashers that scream the loudest. They often abuse the man and criticise at every turn without any balance in terms of the good he's done. So it's hardly surprising when those that don't mind Murray look to defend him. And it's not the pro-Murray fans that make the first move, we don't come on forums like this and praise Murray to the rooftops. 99% of the time it's in defence of an unbalanced slaughtering of the man.