More hilarous timmy insanity on KDS

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

QUOTE (modest mouse @ Sep 3 2008, 09:45 AM)

QUOTE (Nisi Dominus Frustra @ Sep 3 2008, 02:41 AM)

Catholics in Scotland, and particularly those with Irish connections are not free. We are enslaved by bigots. Treated as sub-human, ironically, by sub-humans. We are intimidated by intolerant, violent thugs who's ethos is built on hate and lies.

In what way?

Apologies for the delay in the reply.

Is that a genuine question MM? I find it difficult to believe that if you are Irish, Catholic, or a Celtic supporter then you don't know what I mean.(I fit in to two of the three criteria) I would gladly expand my point if I didn't think you were at it.

A good place to start would be the notion of 'no-go' areas. I may be wrong but it's my impression that this is one of Ulster's exports. I can then make the association with the plight of the African American pre Rosa Parks.

I could also go on to cite numerous examples....first hand, but I was under the illusion that anybody with a similar background as me would have similar experiences:

Quote from the head of the local Licencing Committee to one of my former employers:

"You fenians are getting too big for your boots and I'm gonna close you down."

I could also cite numerous examples of masons in the 4th estate going out of their way to help fellow masons dodge charges. That makes it a two tear legal system in my book.

My own movement is restricted because I know that if I visit certain places I will be subject to abuse or even violence because of what I am: a catholic Celtic supporter.

There are many definitions of slavery, I suppose, but:

Restriction of movement

Restriction of opportunity

Restriction of access to justice.

Is that the lot of a free man? I don't think so. What would you call it MM?

Isn't it ironic that he labels a section of society as "sub-human" whilst railing against "bigotry". Irony is not their strong suit.

It's really unbelievable how delusional these people are. They must walk down the street scowling at strangers, who in turn look back quizzically at the strange fellow with the aggressive expression. They have so little in the way of self-awareness and social skills that they think these puzzled expressions are all "h*n masons" keeping them down in line with some huge big bad proddy conspiracy.

I have many Catholic relatives, friends and colleagues. I have never heard one tale of this of daily persecution to which they refer, from anyone in my social circle.

They are simply delusional. How can you tell someone's religion if they dress in a manner consistent with the broad spectrum of current fashions? I can see the point if they're a member of the clergy in dog collar and the like, but 99% of the population aren't and I'm quite sure that not all Celtic supporters are clergymen in full attire and that's where the issue reaches a crux.

They are trying to conflate the term "Celtic supporter" with Catholic, whilst playing the victim card, thus meaning that in any scuffle between Old Firm fans, they are by definition the victim and we are the aggressor. It's a mentality that has been with them for decades. I recall the father of a friend who was as bitter a Catholic as you could find. He indoctrinated his son in anti-British (hey isn't that "racist" timmy?) racism and IRA fanatacism. He was the sort of guy who hated the Orange Walk but had to turn up in green trousers complete with tricolour shirt. He wasn't attacked for it, but probably got a few looks. The point is that he looked for confrontation. Needless to say, he ended up in prison for what we can consider Celtic-minded crimes. He remains the most bigoted person I have met.

I believe that this persecution complex which almost consumes their identity, is responsible for prolonging and intensifying a recent wave of sectarianism, at a time when sectarianism was dying out. The internet has allowed them to be more organised in their communication and dissemination of propaganda. However, it has also allowed them to work themselves up into the kind of frenzy that was reserved for the Brazen Head and its ilk.

This neo-sectarianism of the Celtic fan with access to the internet has seen the farcical UEFA emailing campaign and the desire to be hurt by any possible willful misinterpretation available, has been the hallmark of recent years. This, I think, is the cause of this recent intensification of hostilities.

Most people can look at these claims and see them as something rather trivial with no real goal other than point-scoring and besmirching their rivals. They can even see where this sort of obsession can lead and will say that it's time to give it a rest.

Yet there remains those who think there was still a big issue and that songs and words must be tackled. To those, I say fair enough, but at least be even-handed. If you're going to accept interpretations of certain words that defy their normal definition in order to expose the greatest possible offence, then do so with balance. Despairing at alleged "anti-Irishness", even labelling it racism, whilst dismissing, or worse still indulging in, "anti-Britishness" isn't going to give you a very strong argument or much credibility. You will only end up looking like a hypocrite and a fool.

This hypocrisy and foolishness is compounded when those with a platform give an air of credibility to it. In this category, I will name Martin O'Neill and Graham Spiers. Both of these individuals have been guilty of stirring up the level of sectarianism by offering a highly controversial, inconsistent and hypocritical analysis, so bitter and biased that it doesn't even hide their agenda.

I'm sure that Celtic fans won't fully agree with my comments, but it's clear that they feel things are getting worse from the below post:

I have 3 children. If, when they become old enough to make these kind of choices, they approached me to say that they were thinking about emigrating to another country, I think I'd actively encourage it. I wouldn't have said that, even a couple of years ago.

Shi ty little insular, backward country. Nice scenery, though!

Well, you "Celtic-minded" chaps started this campaign to find offence in anything and everything includng the word "bouncy". Now you've ended up very offended and acquired some form of paranoid delusion. You got rid of some songs but got others you didn't like. Don't pretend to be aghast at insulting words in the heat of a highly charged derby, because you've been caught singing worse yourselves.

When you whine about the evils of conspiracy and the victims of sectarianism, real or imaginary, just remember who started the ball rolling. Oh, and thank you Graham Spiers and Martin O'Neill. Your bitter, hypocritical and inconsistent rants have actively encouraged sectarianism. Much like the Celtic support you defend, you have no moral high ground.

[brissyger 8]

I don't bother listening to their sieve like arguments and to be honest I don't really think the SFA or UEFA will either so as far as I'm concerned they can live in their hate filled little world as long as they like because it sounds like it makes them miserable .

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

I don't bother listening to their sieve like arguments and to be honest I don't really think the SFA or UEFA will either so as far as I'm concerned they can live in their hate filled little world as long as they like because it sounds like it makes them miserable .

I find it hilarious but also enjoy pointing out their hypocrisy, not that it's a difficult task.

[brissyger 8]

I don't bother listening to their sieve like arguments and to be honest I don't really think the SFA or UEFA will either so as far as I'm concerned they can live in their hate filled little world as long as they like because it sounds like it makes them miserable .

I find it hilarious but also enjoy pointing out their hypocrisy, not that it's a difficult task.

I'd find it hilarious as well but the dumb bastards are still allowed to breed and pollute our gene pool with their stupidity

[Fixxxer 4]

Their miserable pathetic lives fill me warmly

[Hoff 7]

That was a tremendous post Oleg! Fantastic read

[1690 Posts 71]

Very good post Oleg. There does appear to be a psychological problem with many celtc fans who appear to have some inherent need to see themselves as victims. Trying to equate themselves with African slaves is outrageous yet some of these fools really believe this stuff.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

That was a tremendous post Oleg! Fantastic read

Cheers man!

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Very good post Oleg. There does appear to be a psychological problem with many celtc fans who appear to have some inherent need to see themselves as victims. Trying to equate themselves with African slaves is outrageous yet some of these fools really believe this stuff.

I know. Rosa Parks and slavery? WTF are they thinking?

The deserve to be mocked.

[royalbluebell 38]

Words fail me.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Words fail me.

The use of Rosa Parks and slavery as examples is not only insulting to black people, it's a huge own goal.

They are justifying "ambulance chasers" by virtue of their desire to associate themselves with those who have suffered real prejudice, persecution and dehumanisation.

Comparing songs and banners to slavery? They've lost the argument and permanently so, I think.

[Guest Andypendek]

You should offer this to therabbitt as an article, mate, it deserves a wider audience.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

You should offer this to therabbitt as an article, mate, it deserves a wider audience.

Cheers Andy. It wasn't meant to be so long, but I got on a roll. I'd like to edit it before "publication".

[TMWWBK 0]

I love how he instantly clutches at the straws by basically asking the other T*** "if he was being serious" three times in the first paragraph.

Superb post and a good read, Oleg.

[minstral 5,375]

top class post oleg.

[radlord 24]

QUOTE (modest mouse @ Sep 3 2008, 09:45 AM)

QUOTE (Nisi Dominus Frustra @ Sep 3 2008, 02:41 AM)

Catholics in Scotland, and particularly those with Irish connections are not free. We are enslaved by bigots. Treated as sub-human, ironically, by sub-humans. We are intimidated by intolerant, violent thugs who's ethos is built on hate and lies.

In what way?

Apologies for the delay in the reply.

Is that a genuine question MM? I find it difficult to believe that if you are Irish, Catholic, or a Celtic supporter then you don't know what I mean.(I fit in to two of the three criteria) I would gladly expand my point if I didn't think you were at it.

A good place to start would be the notion of 'no-go' areas. I may be wrong but it's my impression that this is one of Ulster's exports. I can then make the association with the plight of the African American pre Rosa Parks.

I could also go on to cite numerous examples....first hand, but I was under the illusion that anybody with a similar background as me would have similar experiences:

Quote from the head of the local Licencing Committee to one of my former employers:

"You fenians are getting too big for your boots and I'm gonna close you down."

I could also cite numerous examples of masons in the 4th estate going out of their way to help fellow masons dodge charges. That makes it a two tear legal system in my book.

My own movement is restricted because I know that if I visit certain places I will be subject to abuse or even violence because of what I am: a catholic Celtic supporter.

There are many definitions of slavery, I suppose, but:

Restriction of movement

Restriction of opportunity

Restriction of access to justice.

Is that the lot of a free man? I don't think so. What would you call it MM?

Isn't it ironic that he labels a section of society as "sub-human" whilst railing against "bigotry". Irony is not their strong suit.

It's really unbelievable how delusional these people are. They must walk down the street scowling at strangers, who in turn look back quizzically at the strange fellow with the aggressive expression. They have so little in the way of self-awareness and social skills that they think these puzzled expressions are all "h*n masons" keeping them down in line with some huge big bad proddy conspiracy.

I have many Catholic relatives, friends and colleagues. I have never heard one tale of this of daily persecution to which they refer, from anyone in my social circle.

They are simply delusional. How can you tell someone's religion if they dress in a manner consistent with the broad spectrum of current fashions? I can see the point if they're a member of the clergy in dog collar and the like, but 99% of the population aren't and I'm quite sure that not all Celtic supporters are clergymen in full attire and that's where the issue reaches a crux.

They are trying to conflate the term "Celtic supporter" with Catholic, whilst playing the victim card, thus meaning that in any scuffle between Old Firm fans, they are by definition the victim and we are the aggressor. It's a mentality that has been with them for decades. I recall the father of a friend who was as bitter a Catholic as you could find. He indoctrinated his son in anti-British (hey isn't that "racist" timmy?) racism and IRA fanatacism. He was the sort of guy who hated the Orange Walk but had to turn up in green trousers complete with tricolour shirt. He wasn't attacked for it, but probably got a few looks. The point is that he looked for confrontation. Needless to say, he ended up in prison for what we can consider Celtic-minded crimes. He remains the most bigoted person I have met.

I believe that this persecution complex which almost consumes their identity, is responsible for prolonging and intensifying a recent wave of sectarianism, at a time when sectarianism was dying out. The internet has allowed them to be more organised in their communication and dissemination of propaganda. However, it has also allowed them to work themselves up into the kind of frenzy that was reserved for the Brazen Head and its ilk.

This neo-sectarianism of the Celtic fan with access to the internet has seen the farcical UEFA emailing campaign and the desire to be hurt by any possible willful misinterpretation available, has been the hallmark of recent years. This, I think, is the cause of this recent intensification of hostilities.

Most people can look at these claims and see them as something rather trivial with no real goal other than point-scoring and besmirching their rivals. They can even see where this sort of obsession can lead and will say that it's time to give it a rest.

Yet there remains those who think there was still a big issue and that songs and words must be tackled. To those, I say fair enough, but at least be even-handed. If you're going to accept interpretations of certain words that defy their normal definition in order to expose the greatest possible offence, then do so with balance. Despairing at alleged "anti-Irishness", even labelling it racism, whilst dismissing, or worse still indulging in, "anti-Britishness" isn't going to give you a very strong argument or much credibility. You will only end up looking like a hypocrite and a fool.

This hypocrisy and foolishness is compounded when those with a platform give an air of credibility to it. In this category, I will name Martin O'Neill and Graham Spiers. Both of these individuals have been guilty of stirring up the level of sectarianism by offering a highly controversial, inconsistent and hypocritical analysis, so bitter and biased that it doesn't even hide their agenda.

I'm sure that Celtic fans won't fully agree with my comments, but it's clear that they feel things are getting worse from the below post:

I have 3 children. If, when they become old enough to make these kind of choices, they approached me to say that they were thinking about emigrating to another country, I think I'd actively encourage it. I wouldn't have said that, even a couple of years ago.

Shi ty little insular, backward country. Nice scenery, though!

Well, you "Celtic-minded" chaps started this campaign to find offence in anything and everything includng the word "bouncy". Now you've ended up very offended and acquired some form of paranoid delusion. You got rid of some songs but got others you didn't like. Don't pretend to be aghast at insulting words in the heat of a highly charged derby, because you've been caught singing worse yourselves.

When you whine about the evils of conspiracy and the victims of sectarianism, real or imaginary, just remember who started the ball rolling. Oh, and thank you Graham Spiers and Martin O'Neill. Your bitter, hypocritical and inconsistent rants have actively encouraged sectarianism. Much like the Celtic support you defend, you have no moral high ground.

This is probably the best post I have ever read on this forum.

[Guest therabbitt]

You know where to bring that edited article

Cracking read!

[WVB 2,560]

Good work Oleg, can i send a copy to my mate who edits the NF News?

[Bazza 21]

Great post m8 with excellent points and well put forward.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Good work Oleg, can i send a copy to my mate who edits the NF News?

[BCLoyal9 53]

At the risk of looking like a major arse kisser , I'm very glad that we have Oleg on board. To summarise the rising tide of paranoia , pseudo-victimhood and hypocrisy that is the trademark of our Yahoo friends , in such a concise manner is no mean feat. There is so much pus to drain - this article lances the boil with bracing speed.

Cyber pint for Oleg! :beer2:

[Wienblue 26]

At the risk of looking like a major arse kisser , I'm very glad that we have Oleg on board. To summarise the rising tide of paranoia , pseudo-victimhood and hypocrisy that is the trademark of our Yahoo friends , in such a concise manner is no mean feat. There is so much pus to drain - this article lances the boil with bracing speed.

Cyber pint for Oleg! :beer2:

Oleg and I have our disagreements in the debate chamber, but, he is a good guy whom I respect - with the same RFC goals. Well done m8 -v/eloquent.

[The Hammer 11 2,652]

They Compare themselves to African Americans yet they Throw Bannanas at them thats irony

[Guest Andypendek]

I've been thinking about this and I can't get my head around it. The dimwit who replies to MM clearly feels oppressed in all ways, shapes and forms. Now, as those of us who exist in the real world know, he has the vote, he has rights, he has a religious education funded by people who plainly are not religious (if church attendance figures are to be trusted). So why, then, does he live in a fantasy world of persecution? It's a cheap shot to accuse someone of mental illness, but unless he's at it (and the tone suggests deadly seriousness) there's something deeply and worryingly wrong with this chap. His grasp of reality has been warped by his football allegiance...the replacement of what normal people would call 'ordinary life' - emotional ties to loved ones, social interaction with a broad mix of people and a realistic awareness of self and others - with a football team is not 'normal behaviour.'

Worrying times for Scotland indeed, with citizens operating at this level of psychological damage freely walking the streets.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

I've been thinking about this and I can't get my head around it. The dimwit who replies to MM clearly feels oppressed in all ways, shapes and forms. Now, as those of us who exist in the real world know, he has the vote, he has rights, he has a religious education funded by people who plainly are not religious (if church attendance figures are to be trusted). So why, then, does he live in a fantasy world of persecution? It's a cheap shot to accuse someone of mental illness, but unless he's at it (and the tone suggests deadly seriousness) there's something deeply and worryingly wrong with this chap. His grasp of reality has been warped by his football allegiance...the replacement of what normal people would call 'ordinary life' - emotional ties to loved ones, social interaction with a broad mix of people and a realistic awareness of self and others - with a football team is not 'normal behaviour.'

Worrying times for Scotland indeed, with citizens operating at this level of psychological damage freely walking the streets.

Sadly Andy, he is by no means unique. There's a whole swathe of the Celtic support trying to hype up sectarianism to level not related to reality. There are different degrees to which they do this, but I would not be surprised if most Celtic fans actually feel that "racist" songs were sung. Somehow, at the same time, the anti-British songs aren't considered racist.

I agree about worrying times. About 3 years ago I started to post on the BBC site and was staggered by the propagandising, campaigning and distortions of the Celtic fans. This was at the time of the UEFA emailing campaign. This was when I first realised that the term "fenian" had been redefined as exclusively sectarian, whilst "orange b*******", which can only relate to Protestants because that related to "bigots". I'm not a Lodge member, but I've known many and they certainly don't deserve that label.

Again, timmy is blind to his own sectarian bigotry without the slightest idea of the irony and hypocrisy of his argument. That the pretentiously verbose corduroy crusader champions this delusional perspective without any shame, tells us that his ostentatious use of vocabulary is there to mask the poverty of his analytical capabilities. Any sane person can see through this persecution complex.

However, they're actually convinced of its reality. I genuinely feel that this has fuelled the recent heightening of tension. If we don't take a major step back and look at this situation, I'm afraid you may be right about the troubling nature of this mindset. It can only lead to more strife.