union jacks

[Boab 73]

''Cant it be simple? Rangers can put the cards out there, its there perogative. The fans can choose to participate or not, that is their perogative. Why is there a culture in our country that if someone does not agree with you, they are beneath contempt?''

I have to strongly agree with that sentiment there.

[minstral 5,375]

i dont think we need to worry as most of the fans will be proud to wave the union jacks.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

''Cant it be simple? Rangers can put the cards out there, its there perogative. The fans can choose to participate or not, that is their perogative. Why is there a culture in our country that if someone does not agree with you, they are beneath contempt?''

I have to strongly agree with that sentiment there.

It is that simple IB.

And the right and freedom to choose to participate or not is one of the main reasons so many are proud to wave that Union flag.

[Boab 73]

''Why is there a culture in our country that if someone does not agree with you, they are beneath contempt?''

More that quote was what I was addressing and ultimately agreeing with

[bestiadegranada 0]

I was not only referring to WW2 or any particular war. You just percieved it that way. I was talking about all the wars that are being fought and have been fought in the past. Do you really think that if we had been invaded by any regime we have fough against in the last 300 years they would have allowed the people the right to free speech? I don't think so. That is not what happens with invasions. The people are supressed. That is what i was referring to when i said the chances were that we would be under a fascist state.

Maybe i just mis-interpreted you but did you just say that those who died in WW2 mean very little to you?

Blue, actually, the Germans had no plans to change the way of life in the UK if they had successfully invaded in 1940. They did not see the UK as their enemy at that time, they wanted just to defeat us, but not anniahlate us, so as to get us out the war so they could concentrate on the East. So their plan was to defeat us, remove the government, have a more liberal government come into power, sign a non-aggression treaty and basically leave - sounds amazing, but thats what Hitler wanted

Source? Second World War by Winston Churchill which I am almost done with - a tough read but if you are interested in real story of WW2, a fantastic read

Sorry, I know we were arguing on the same side, but do you honestly believe this? There were invasion plans found in the last few years which were anything but liberal. They included a list of hundreds of prominent Brits who were to be executed, including, bizzarely, Vera Lynn and Noel Coward! And I can't imagine a Nazi regime leaving our Jewish friends be. Look at every single Nazi regime in wartime Europe - I see no reason to believe they would have treated us any differently.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Perhaps by "liberal" it means they would only exterminate 2 million Jews this time.

[bestiadegranada 0]

To be honest why should there be saltires ?

The flag display is to commemorate the Union...and the flag of the union is the Union flag.

I would guess it would be a sop for the jacobites within our support.

Pretty childish post. Maybe it's because, as has been pointed out a few times on this thread, we are apparently a Scottish AND English club.

[blueger9 0]

Dont think theres any need to go into in depth debates about certain wars and world politics, (all be it very informative and well worth a read.. ), about flying the union flag at Ibrox , we are what we are, thank god, why else do so many people from outwith the Glasgow area support RFC. Long live the union .

[Boab 73]

Pretty childish post. Maybe it's because, as has been pointed out a few times on this thread, we are apparently a Scottish AND English club.

Exactly, I worry that we that there is the perception of us being an english club, as after all, many England fans bring along the Union Jack. That previous sentence may be taken as in insult -'we can't be english' but its more, we should always be seen as being proud to be Scottish.

''Dont think theres any need to go into in depth debates about certain wars and world politics, (all be it very informative and well worth a read.. ), about flying the union flag at Ibrox , we are what we are, thank god, why else do so many people from outwith the Glasgow area support RFC. Long live the union.''

All very well saying about not going into Politics but he just did with that comment when his last sentence.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

To be honest why should there be saltires ?

The flag display is to commemorate the Union...and the flag of the union is the Union flag.

I would guess it would be a sop for the jacobites within our support.

Pretty childish post. Maybe it's because, as has been pointed out a few times on this thread, we are apparently a Scottish AND English club.

Maybe my post was childish but your reply is, well I'll not say.

In what way are RFC an English Club?

[blueger9 0]

Pretty childish post. Maybe it's because, as has been pointed out a few times on this thread, we are apparently a Scottish AND English club.

Exactly, I worry that we that there is the perception of us being an english club, as after all, many England fans bring along the Union Jack. That previous sentence may be taken as in insult -'we can't be english' but its more, we should always be seen as being proud to be Scottish.

''Dont think theres any need to go into in depth debates about certain wars and world politics, (all be it very informative and well worth a read.. ), about flying the union flag at Ibrox , we are what we are, thank god, why else do so many people from outwith the Glasgow area support RFC. Long live the union.''

All very well saying about not going into Politics but he just did with that comment when his last sentence.

Its a RFC forum, im sure we all know the politics of the club, as someone on here has all ready stated you cant always separate football and politics...might even been you IB, i agree, my point was the depth of debate seemed excessive, in relation to the thread title....but hey i will respect your anti union stance.. <_<

[Boab 73]

The debate of the debate probably is excessive but if you have a wee swatch, a good wee scottish word, at my 1st post in this thread then you'll see I said I didn't want to delve into Politics

[Briton 394]

To suggest that we should be happy to wave the "UNION FLAG" (the Union Jack is a Naval flag) is both ignorant and typically condescending.

It is commonly said that the name 'Jack' comes from the small mast on a ship's bow but this is not universally accepted. Ironically some think it may come from the Latin name for James, Jacobus. This is because the flag was redesigned when James VI became king. Truth is that it's not known for sure where the term Jack comes from.

[bauba30 1]

I was not only referring to WW2 or any particular war. You just percieved it that way. I was talking about all the wars that are being fought and have been fought in the past. Do you really think that if we had been invaded by any regime we have fough against in the last 300 years they would have allowed the people the right to free speech? I don't think so. That is not what happens with invasions. The people are supressed. That is what i was referring to when i said the chances were that we would be under a fascist state.

Maybe i just mis-interpreted you but did you just say that those who died in WW2 mean very little to you?

Blue, actually, the Germans had no plans to change the way of life in the UK if they had successfully invaded in 1940. They did not see the UK as their enemy at that time, they wanted just to defeat us, but not anniahlate us, so as to get us out the war so they could concentrate on the East. So their plan was to defeat us, remove the government, have a more liberal government come into power, sign a non-aggression treaty and basically leave - sounds amazing, but thats what Hitler wanted

Source? Second World War by Winston Churchill which I am almost done with - a tough read but if you are interested in real story of WW2, a fantastic read

To be honest, I am not sure - Winston Churchill merely documented the evidence in his book - he was not prepared to find out. But certainly until late 1940 Hitler was planning on doing merely sufficient damage to England that they would sue for peace. Now, whatever you believe after that, thats up to you. The documentation available at the time of Churchills books and also the military strategy added to the messages from the German Ambassadors suggest that this was Hitlers plans. Now, of course whether he would have stuck to those plans or not, who knows? Thankfully, we never got to find out.

Sorry, I know we were arguing on the same side, but do you honestly believe this? There were invasion plans found in the last few years which were anything but liberal. They included a list of hundreds of prominent Brits who were to be executed, including, bizzarely, Vera Lynn and Noel Coward! And I can't imagine a Nazi regime leaving our Jewish friends be. Look at every single Nazi regime in wartime Europe - I see no reason to believe they would have treated us any differently.

[bauba30 1]

I was not only referring to WW2 or any particular war. You just percieved it that way. I was talking about all the wars that are being fought and have been fought in the past. Do you really think that if we had been invaded by any regime we have fough against in the last 300 years they would have allowed the people the right to free speech? I don't think so. That is not what happens with invasions. The people are supressed. That is what i was referring to when i said the chances were that we would be under a fascist state.

Maybe i just mis-interpreted you but did you just say that those who died in WW2 mean very little to you?

Blue, actually, the Germans had no plans to change the way of life in the UK if they had successfully invaded in 1940. They did not see the UK as their enemy at that time, they wanted just to defeat us, but not anniahlate us, so as to get us out the war so they could concentrate on the East. So their plan was to defeat us, remove the government, have a more liberal government come into power, sign a non-aggression treaty and basically leave - sounds amazing, but thats what Hitler wanted

Source? Second World War by Winston Churchill which I am almost done with - a tough read but if you are interested in real story of WW2, a fantastic read

Sorry, I know we were arguing on the same side, but do you honestly believe this? There were invasion plans found in the last few years which were anything but liberal. They included a list of hundreds of prominent Brits who were to be executed, including, bizzarely, Vera Lynn and Noel Coward! And I can't imagine a Nazi regime leaving our Jewish friends be. Look at every single Nazi regime in wartime Europe - I see no reason to believe they would have treated us any differently.

To be honest, I am not sure - Winston Churchill merely documented the evidence in his book - he was not prepared to find out. But certainly until late 1940 Hitler was planning on doing merely sufficient damage to England that they would sue for peace. Now, whatever you believe after that, thats up to you. The documentation available at the time of Churchills books and also the military strategy added to the messages from the German Ambassadors suggest that this was Hitlers plans. Now, of course whether he would have stuck to those plans or not, who knows? Thankfully, we never got to find out.

[delparlane 5,659]

Exactly, I worry that we that there is the perception of us being an english club, as after all, many England fans bring along the Union Jack. That previous sentence may be taken as in insult -'we can't be english' but its more, we should always be seen as being proud to be Scottish.

I said the very same in another post. I have no objection to the flying of the Union flag at Ibrox, as long as it's balanced with flying the Saltire.

We may all know different, but I think the vast majority outwith Britain would see the Union Jack and immediately associate us with being an English club, which frankly sets my teeth grating. Personally I prefer the Saltire, but I think the decision to fly both is right - it tips the hat to all elements of our supporters, and sends the clear message that RFC is Scottish, British, and Proud.

[wertp72 0]

People argue that, what has it got to do with Rangers football club

just as others argue what has the red hand got to do with RFC.

As all other arguments go.

If fans want to do something, then fair enough.

It means something to them as a group of like minded people.

Maybe not all but who has the right to deny anyone from what they want

to do so as it is not illegal.

Thing is, as long as it does not harm anyone in the process

then there should be no problem to anything a fan or fans do.

Rangers fans are notorious for arguing/debating amongst themselves

because that is the freedom they have grown up to enjoy.

They do not always agree/disagree as a one in fear of being beaten down

in fear of going against the grain.

No one should be telling other fans not to do something.