OceanRain 2,845 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Whyte's spokesperson:The suggestion that the Rangers takeover was funded through financing arrangements on season tickets is totally untrue. Rangers FC is no different in that it has a working capital facility with Ticketus, as have many, many other clubs. It is a common arrangement in football. This facility was in place at Ibrox long before the takeover. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC55 109,311 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Whyte's spokesperson:Very true.SDM used this last year Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis 1,011 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Very true.SDM used this last yearDid this not help to buy Jelavic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senna 735 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 511 guests? Fuck me, the DSS might have a day of on-time sign-ons today for the first time ever.Waterstone's internet caff must me mobbed though. Imagine the smell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmo21 15 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So does "admitting" this to the DR amount to him trying to make sure season ticket sales are good???Ie otherwise, bad news for the club? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanRain 2,845 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It's now up on the DR website if anyone wants to read it there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC55 109,311 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It's now up on the DR website if anyone wants to read it there.Im not giving them the hits mate, but is there any quotes even one from Whyte which says "yes i have done this" Whats the jist of the rest of the pages? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC55 109,311 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Did this not help to buy Jelavic.aye mate Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senna 735 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Rangers owner Craig Whyte admits he sold four years' worth of season tickets to keep Ibrox club runningJan 31 2012 Exclusive by James Traynor & Keith JacksonCRAIG WHYTE sold off four years of fans' money to help fund his Rangers buy-out, it was revealed last night.And Record Sport can also reveal high-ranking HMRC officials are investigating alleged non-payment of VAT since Whyte gained control of the club last May.Current director Dave King and former board member Paul Murray have been quizzed by the tax authorities as part of their enquiry which has revealed £24.4million has been borrowed against future season-tickets sales.Tranches of tickets over four seasons have been sold to Ticketus, a London-based group linked to Octopus, and it's claimed this deal helped finance Whyte's operating costs after the takeover.Whyte himself last night confirmed he had sold off the tickets but denied he used the money to pay off Lloyds Bank. He insisted the £18m for the bank came from one of his companies.When Whyte took over Rangers' debt was £18m to Lloyds Bank and their wage bill had been reduced to £14m but it is believed the club could owe much more than that.It's thought the current debt is £21m to Ticketus plus £5m VAT on the ticket deal. But there could be other bills due and of course Rangers are awaiting the final verdict on their £49m EBT (Employee Benefit Trust) tax case.Last night Whyte insisted the Ticketus deal was normal practice for clubs and his spokesman said: "The suggestion that the Rangers takeover was funded through financing arrangements on season tickets is categorically untrue."Rangers FC is no different in that it has a working capital facility with Ticketus, as have many, many other clubs. It is a common arrangement in football. This facility was in place at Ibrox long before the takeover."The EBT ruling is due within weeks and if Rangers lose they will be facing financial meltdown.Their debt could then be in the £75m region with liquidation a stark reality.But many now fear Rangers could be tipped over the abyss and into some kind of insolvency even before their Judgment Day over the tax case.Rangers fans put their faith in Whyte believing he would get rid of the club's debt and also provide transfer money for manager Ally McCoist, who has been an impoverished bystander during this transfer window.But the Ibrox club's support will be shocked by the detail of invoices and letters now in the revenue's possession. It is claimed these show Whyte sold off massive chunks of Rangers' future season-ticket sales.And former board member Murray believes the takeover wouldn't have been possible without the fans, even though they had no idea future tickets had been sold off to raise extra cash.Murray said: "These documents prove to me that Rangers fans have actually paid and will continue to pay for the sale of their club."He added that HMRC have told him they are also due VAT, as much as £5m, on the deal with Ticketus and insists he has seen details of letters and invoices held by HMRC.Murray claims that in one of the documents, a letter dated March 8, 2011 and signed by Whyte, it is alleged he made it clear that through Wavetower, his bid vehicle at the time, he would be entering into a deal to sell the season tickets to a company called Ticketus.They are part of London-based Octopus, a perfectly legitimate lender who grant immediate loans based on future ticket sales. Record Sport managed to speak with most of the people who were on the Rangers board at the time of the takeover and they insist they knew nothing about the sale of season tickets. In fact they tried to ring-fence supporters' money.The papers, which are being pored over by HMRC officials, are said to reveal borrowing against ticket sales for seasons 2011-12, 12-13 and 13-14 that Whyte was able to raise £24.4m.Then on June 27 he was hit with the first of his repayment bills from Ticketus, who were demanding a total of £9.5m, their share of that summer's season-ticket sales. Whyte could only come up with £3.5m cash and to fill the shortfall mortgaged off part of season 2014-15 to the value of £6m.Opening in March last year Murray claims the detail contained within HMRC's file is extensive and explosive.This is the timetable and interpretation of events: March 8, 2011: A letter from Liberty Capital (one of Whyte's companies) is signed by Whyte and addressed to Ticketus.In the letter Whyte confirms the intention to sell Rangers' season tickets to Ticketus.April 7: Lawyers on behalf of Ticketus deposit £24.4m into a Collyer Bristow (lawyers for Whyte's bid) client account. A further £2m was placed in the same account from a company called JLT Benefit Solutions with £1m from the Merchant House Group, a firm of corporate finance specialists with whom Whyte is closely linked.May 9: An agreement was entered into between Ticketus and Rangers to sell the season tickets.This was just three days after the takeover date of May 6. The bank was repaid the £18m.June 27: Ticketus raised an invoice to Rangers seeking first repayment of £9.5m on their agreement. Rangers paid only £3.5m of that amount in cash and borrowed £6m more from Ticketus by selling another portion of 2013-14 as well as a portion of season 2014-15. Analysts stress there is nothing illegal in selling future ticket sales. In fact, it is common practice in British football, although the problems encountered by Leeds United and Newcastle United, who both borrowed too often and too much, are proof of the dangers.Whyte has never declared the deals with Ticketus although HMRC documents suggest he has cashed in on fan loyalty.The tax officials quizzed Murray and South African-based King, who was on conference call, as recently as last Friday morning.They insisted they had no knowledge of what had been happening and Murray, who last year offered to take the club off Lloyds' books and invest £15m in the team in a last-ditch attempt to prevent Whyte from getting the club, said he couldn't believe what he was reading when presented with the HMRC file."HMRC asked for a meeting at the end of last week to find out what knowledge I, having been a director of the club at the time, had of these transactions prior to the takeover," Murray said."I knew nothing about this and although I have been questioned by HMRC and seen some especially revealing documents which are in their possession, it is still very hard to take in what has been going on."Collyer Bristow were acting for Craig Whyte during the takeover and I have been shown their client account, from the opening of it until today."I've also seen all invoices from Ticketus to Rangers and Rangers to Ticketus supporting all these actions."I can't believe Rangers have been handed over in this way."Remember also, the Independent Board, set up to make sure any potential buyers were capable of making the purchase and then funding the business, asked repeatedly where Craig Whyte was getting the money."He said it was from his own personal wealth and through Liberty Capital, which he insisted he owned 100 per cent, in the British Virgin Islands."Plans were being made to sell off future ticket sales but the directors were never told. This was all being done behind our backs."King was also shocked to learn of the seasonticket sale and said: "Securitising season tickets is a valid seasonal funding strategy to smooth cash flows within the year - but no longer."Whyte's spokesman added: "The takeover team instigated discussions with Ticketus prior to the takeover because the relationship with Rangers was already in place and the new owners wanted to continue it."They were clear from the outset they wanted to ensure there were robust working capital provisions in place that could deal with the many financial challenges the club faces."The takeover was funded by one of Mr Whyte's companies. Several months before then - and long before any discussions with Ticketus - Mr Whyte was asked to provide proof of funds for the takeover and he did that to the satisfaction of the previous owners, Lloyds Banking Group and professional advisers." Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterheadBear 1 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I caved and bought the rag. Says we borrowed £24.4mill from ticketus against this season and the next two seasons ticket sales. Then when ticketus came calling for their first payment from us (£9.5mill), only £3.5 was paid with us having to borrow a further £6mill from the following season to cover the shortfall.Where are we going to find £9.5mill to pay ticketus next year? And where has the £24.4mill initially borrowed gone? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterheadBear 1 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Im not giving them the hits mate, but is there any quotes even one from Whyte which says "yes i have done this" Whats the jist of the rest of the pages?There are quotes confirming that season ticket sales have been borrowed against. A "spokesman". Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carsons Dog 9,878 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I've just been up the A&E and there's a load of Bernadettes laid out with broken noses and black eyesHas something happened?(or not happened even?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanRain 2,845 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Im not giving them the hits mate, but is there any quotes even one from Whyte which says "yes i have done this" Whats the jist of the rest of the pages?Do you think they got Whyte on the phone for a chat about this personally? Whit?His spokesperson says he's done it. I'm imagining they've been given the go ahead to say it from the top.That's the role of a spokesperson.Get your head out of the sand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senna 735 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Whyte's spokesman added: "The takeover team instigated discussions with Ticketus prior to the takeover because the relationship with Rangers was already in place and the new owners wanted to continue it."They were clear from the outset they wanted to ensure there were robust working capital provisions in place that could deal with the many financial challenges the club faces."The takeover was funded by one of Mr Whyte's companies. Several months before then - and long before any discussions with Ticketus - Mr Whyte was asked to provide proof of funds for the takeover and he did that to the satisfaction of the previous owners, Lloyds Banking Group and professional advisers."I do like the Rhebel keeping this until the very end of the story. You know, because it detracts hugely from the punch of the main waffle from Traynor and Jackson. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC55 109,311 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Do you think they got Whyte on the phone for a chat about this personally? Whit?His spokesperson says he's done it. I'm imagining they've been given the go ahead to say it from the top.That's the role of a spokesperson.Get your head out of the sand.I asked for quotes from the guy they claimed said it? Whats so hard about that.We already had this mob in place and used it to buy Jelavic last season.See tbh i could make a headline."BLUEPETER SAYS RANGERS WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS"Then when you read it nowhere does BP say this. Thats all i asked. A bit silly running a huge headline like that only for it not to say it personally Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanRain 2,845 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I asked for quotes from the guy they claimed said it? Whats so hard about that.We already had this mob in place and used it to buy Jelavic last season.See tbh i could make a headline."BLUEPETER SAYS RANGERS WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS"Then when you read it nowhere does BP say this. Thats all i asked. A bit silly running a huge headline like that only for it not to say it personallyAs far as I'm concerned this has come from Whyte. If anyone else doesn't then that's up to them, and if they want to wait until he is actually on camera or on mic saying it then that's fair enough.EDIT: Apologies if I seem a bit touchy. I've just finished nightshift and this is breaking my balls Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senna 735 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 As far as I'm concerned this has come from Whyte. If anyone else doesn't then that's up to them, and if they want to wait until he is actually on camera or on mic saying it then that's fair enough.This.Not believing that this is from CW is ludicrous. The Rhebel would be fucked in the ass if they've made that up out of thin air. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLawMan 6,240 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I caved and bought the rag. Says we borrowed £24.4mill from ticketus against this season and the next two seasons ticket sales. Then when ticketus came calling for their first payment from us (£9.5mill), only £3.5 was paid with us having to borrow a further £6mill from the following season to cover the shortfall.Where are we going to find £9.5mill to pay ticketus next year? And where has the £24.4mill initially borrowed gone?The most important points and questions in all of this. Our £7 million hole is now a £15 million hole. I wouldn't expect a decent response though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC55 109,311 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 This.Not believing that this is from CW is ludicrous. The Rhebel would be fucked in the ass if they've made that up out of thin air.Maybe im just a bit more old school and think it gives more credibility to an article with direct quotes.Im not saying its not true but when you see headlines like that then it makes the story a bit more credible if it comes direct from him.On the other side the headline should really be."Craig whyte follows old Ibrox board in using Tiketus" But then where is the shock in that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senna 735 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The most important points and questions in all of this. Our £7 million hole is now a £15 million hole. I wouldn't expect a decent response though. Probably increased ST costs, possible CL money and some player sales. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senna 735 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Maybe im just a bit more old school and think it gives more credibility to an article with direct quotes.Im not saying its not true but when you see headlines like that then it makes the story a bit more credible if it comes direct from him.On the other side the headline should really be."Craig whyte follows old Ibrox board in using Tiketus" But then where is the shock in that?And if you can't get those quotes but a spokesman is more than willing? You bin the story?It should be, but it would never be in about a million years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyc79 6 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So are we doomed?Aye or naw? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis 1,011 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I look forward to GCL, Boss and Weiss man's take on this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLawMan 6,240 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Probably increased ST costs, possible CL money and some player sales.Are you going to pay an extra £150 a year knowing the top players will be leaving and that our esteemed leader has put is in more debt than what he took us over in? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senna 735 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Are you going to pay an extra £150 a year knowing the top players will be leaving and that our esteemed leader has put is in more debt than what he took us over in?I don't have an ST due to work commitments so it won't be up to me.Many will as they're not supporters of CW mainly, but the Rangers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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