How long should Mr Warburton get?

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,788]

4 hours ago, Bluepeter9 said:

I have said that often myself, on here, all a Rangers manager has to do is win! Many disagreed but that's what it boils down to 

I always remember a question that was asked to Tim Vickery (British South American based journalist) on The World Football Phone In a few years ago and it was soembody asking which South American coaches he thought would be most appropriate for us and them.

For them he said Marco Bielsa because the football was so attacking and all about entertaining and although I can't remember the name of the manager he said for us he said the reason he picked the person he did is that he always associated us with being a more organised and well drilled team defensively wity more of a reliance on a few really talented players who could change a game in an instant.

That always stuck with me and I think it's because despite all the talented attacking players we have had, it's actually quite an accurate description.

 

[KWBear 1,640]

3 hours ago, graeme_4 said:

I disagree. He's brought in 20-25 players for virtually nothing since he took over the shambles left behind by Ally, and has a only had a handful of out and out failures. 

Compare that against successful managers like or Walter, Eck or Advocaat and it stacks up. Compare it against Ally, le Guen and the like and he's streaks ahead. 

I'm sure I read he was on more, but fair enough if you know it's accurate. 

I promise you I know for a fact that dembele isn't on over 20k per week.

Have read elsewhere speculation that he's on up to 50k a week, which again I assure you he is not. 

It's been made up by bears who are looking for a reason for us missing out on him. At first he was considered "shite anyway", then when everyone realised he's a fucking excellent talent, instead of pointing the finger at our glaring recruitment inefficiencies, out comes the old "well he must be on wedge"

Truth is this is exactly the type of player we should have been going after, not only in England but on the continent. I struggle to believe there are no other talents out there in world football that we could have attracted, within a reasonable budget, who would represent better value than players agonisingly pursued from English football which the gaffer himself conceded was over inflated 

It makes fucking no sense at all. Some of his signings have been utterly brutal and I worry what he would actually do if he was given a "war chest".

I like MW, I desperately want to see him succeed, but when you pick it apart there are some worrying trends. We need things to click or to at least look like they're going in the right direction but at the moment it's pretty grim viewing...... albeit marginally improved in recent weeks. Marginally. 

4 3 3 needs to get to fuck for starters. 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

3 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

I always remember a question that was asked to Tim Vickery (British South American based journalist) on The World Football Phone In a few years ago and it was soembody asking which South American coaches he thought would be most appropriate for us and them.

For them he said Marco Bielsa because the football was so attacking and all about entertaining and although I can't remember the name of the manager he said for us he said the reason he picked the person he did is that he always associated us with being a more organised and well drilled team defensively wity more of a reliance on a few really talented players who could change a game in an instant.

That always stuck with me and I think it's because despite all the talented attacking players we have had, it's actually quite an accurate description.

 

Yep - every one waxed lyrical about how good the football was by celtic during our 9 in a row years about how they played us off the park and yet we won so much during that era - defence is a real art! 

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,788]

10 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Yep - every one waxed lyrical about how good the football was by celtic during our 9 in a row years about how they played us off the park and yet we won so much during that era - defence is a real art! 

See people might not agree with me but I think SAF thought along those lines too, particularly in the 90's.

Everybody remembers the game changers - Ronaldo, Giggs, Cantona, Scholes but guys like Bruce, Pallister, Butt, Phil Neville & O'Shea also played so many games for them despite not being big exciting names because they were honest, hard working players who got the job done and gave the base and platform for these more glamorous players to go and win them games.

I think that's exactly the type of player Halliday is for us and that's why I think he's so valuable even if he's not the best footballer in the world.

[plumbGER 24,518]

56 minutes ago, KWBear said:

I promise you I know for a fact that dembele isn't on over 20k per week.

Have read elsewhere speculation that he's on up to 50k a week, which again I assure you he is not. 

It's been made up by bears who are looking for a reason for us missing out on him. At first he was considered "shite anyway", then when everyone realised he's a fucking excellent talent, instead of pointing the finger at our glaring recruitment inefficiencies, out comes the old "well he must be on wedge"

Truth is this is exactly the type of player we should have been going after, not only in England but on the continent. I struggle to believe there are no other talents out there in world football that we could have attracted, within a reasonable budget, who would represent better value than players agonisingly pursued from English football which the gaffer himself conceded was over inflated 

It makes fucking no sense at all. Some of his signings have been utterly brutal and I worry what he would actually do if he was given a "war chest".

I like MW, I desperately want to see him succeed, but when you pick it apart there are some worrying trends. We need things to click or to at least look like they're going in the right direction but at the moment it's pretty grim viewing...... albeit marginally improved in recent weeks. Marginally. 

4 3 3 needs to get to fuck for starters. 

If you know for a fact, is there any chance you can post your source?

Otherwise i'm calling

[Amac9 2,060]

10 hours ago, AlCapone said:

why?

Finishing second is unacceptable but considering the gulf on quality and money between us and the filth it's not unexpected.

The season we finished third under Big Eck was a total embarrassment. The season under McCoist when we got deducted 10 points and had a poor squad we still finished second comfortably. That's why.

[kdybear55 72]

9 hours ago, MasterD said:

Based on what?

He assembled a team to finish 2nd in the SPL with Motherwell on a lot less money than Warburton spent to win the Championship.

 

I wouldn't have wanted McCall, still wouldn't have taken him over MW but to say he couldn't build a team to win the Championship is nonsense.

McCall never brought in a whole new squad based on his contacts in the game down south! Warburton came in with weeks to go before the start of the season and built a squad that won the league, petrofacs cup and got us to the final of the Scottish cup! To me that's quite impressive and I believe we have the best chance of improving with him at the helm. Of course he has to learn to be more adaptable but he's sticking to a system that he believes in! If McCalls credentials is he finished 2nd in the premiership then that's pretty poor imo we were hammered in the play off remember by the team he managed most of the season so to be honest I think we dodged a bullet not making him our permanant manager but who can tell and how much did warburton spend to win the championship?

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

8 hours ago, DBBTB said:

See people might not agree with me but I think SAF thought along those lines too, particularly in the 90's.

Everybody remembers the game changers - Ronaldo, Giggs, Cantona, Scholes but guys like Bruce, Pallister, Butt, Phil Neville & O'Shea also played so many games for them despite not being big exciting names because they were honest, hard working players who got the job done and gave the base and platform for these more glamorous players to go and win them games.

I think that's exactly the type of player Halliday is for us and that's why I think he's so valuable even if he's not the best footballer in the world.

Agreed - Even our great teams had the workers - the grafters who allowed other to shine 

[KWBear 1,640]

11 hours ago, plumbGER said:

If you know for a fact, is there any chance you can post your source?

Otherwise i'm calling

No, there is no chance. 

Believe it if you want, I couldn't really care less. 

Celtic operate with pay brackets which are tiered. Scott Brown is, as far as I am aware, their highest earner. Scott Brown does not earn £40k per week. Anyone believing that Dembele, a 19 year old prospect signed for fulham for half a million quid earns more than the captain of the club, is an idiot. 

A few articles are in the public domain which put it into context:

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-much-moussa-dembele-earn-11542792

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/512166/Revealed-How-much-each-Celtic-player-earns-week 

several clubs missed a trick with dembele, including us. That does not make me "one of them", that does not make me full of shite, that is just a plain and simple fucking fact. he's a good player, but he does not earn £40k per week, that is a fact. 

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

12 hours ago, KWBear said:

I promise you I know for a fact that dembele isn't on over 20k per week.

Have read elsewhere speculation that he's on up to 50k a week, which again I assure you he is not. 

It's been made up by bears who are looking for a reason for us missing out on him. At first he was considered "shite anyway", then when everyone realised he's a fucking excellent talent, instead of pointing the finger at our glaring recruitment inefficiencies, out comes the old "well he must be on wedge"

Truth is this is exactly the type of player we should have been going after, not only in England but on the continent. I struggle to believe there are no other talents out there in world football that we could have attracted, within a reasonable budget, who would represent better value than players agonisingly pursued from English football which the gaffer himself conceded was over inflated 

It makes fucking no sense at all. Some of his signings have been utterly brutal and I worry what he would actually do if he was given a "war chest".

I like MW, I desperately want to see him succeed, but when you pick it apart there are some worrying trends. We need things to click or to at least look like they're going in the right direction but at the moment it's pretty grim viewing...... albeit marginally improved in recent weeks. Marginally. 

4 3 3 needs to get to fuck for starters. 

Dembele won't be on anything like 40-50k a week but he'll certainly be one of their high earners.

This is a boy that was considered one of the hottest prospects in the Championship and had teams like PSG looking at him as well as a move to Spurs falling through because Fulham fucked that up for themselves. There's absolutely no way he's joined Celtic on the cheap unless there is either some serious bonuses in his contract or he's only up for a season or 2 to put himself in the shop window.

As for him being the sort of player we should be looking at, he wouldn't have looked twice at us. There's only 2 things that have brought him to Scotland IMO and that's Brendan Rodgers and the prospect of Champions League football.

[Albertz 78 918]

Not qualifying for Europe next season will be disastrous for the club and it will set us back in terms of outside investment being brought in and cut the amount of money we can spend next summer.

Sorry but for me if things don't improve soon then we need to look for someone else. What's the point in keeping a gaffer who can't at least finish second with the 2nd biggest wage budget, 50.000 fans at every home game and world class training facilities at his disposal?

 

[jackrfc95 4,255]

Dembele was allegedly being tracked by some of the best clubs in Europe. He'll be on big wages and will most likely earn more than our highest earner.

[KWBear 1,640]

18 minutes ago, TheLoudenTavernier said:

Dembele won't be on anything like 40-50k a week but he'll certainly be one of their high earners.

This is a boy that was considered one of the hottest prospects in the Championship and had teams like PSG looking at him as well as a move to Spurs falling through because Fulham fucked that up for themselves. There's absolutely no way he's joined Celtic on the cheap unless there is either some serious bonuses in his contract or he's only up for a season or 2 to put himself in the shop window.

As for him being the sort of player we should be looking at, he wouldn't have looked twice at us. There's only 2 things that have brought him to Scotland IMO and that's Brendan Rodgers and the prospect of Champions League football.

much more valid points than many which i have seen which simply dismiss him as "shite anyway".

[ZZed 4,510]

He should get until he has spent resources similar to our last manager and then we can judge him. Quality costs money and Mr Warburton has not had a lot of it to make any mistakes with. All other Rangers managers have had more financing to add quality to the squad; Mr Warbourton has built a squad on next to no finances and that squad is still better than the 20 million pound squad assembled by our last manager. He should be given the same cash and then we can see if he is up to it, but if he is not then he is trying to fight with one hand tied behind his back.

[jackrfc95 4,255]

20 minutes ago, TheLoudenTavernier said:

Dembele won't be on anything like 40-50k a week but he'll certainly be one of their high earners.

This is a boy that was considered one of the hottest prospects in the Championship and had teams like PSG looking at him as well as a move to Spurs falling through because Fulham fucked that up for themselves. There's absolutely no way he's joined Celtic on the cheap unless there is either some serious bonuses in his contract or he's only up for a season or 2 to put himself in the shop window.

As for him being the sort of player we should be looking at, he wouldn't have looked twice at us. There's only 2 things that have brought him to Scotland IMO and that's Brendan Rodgers and the prospect of Champions League football.

Plus the fact they can afford to overpay and offer him a lucrative contract because they don't expect him to see out his contract.

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

6 minutes ago, jackrfc95 said:

Plus the fact they can afford to overpay and offer him a lucrative contract because they don't expect him to see out his contract.

Of course, he's been signed with the intention of getting a couple of good seasons from him and then sold at a massive profit. It's their business model and has been for a while now.

[Albertz 78 918]

30 minutes ago, jackrfc95 said:

Dembele was allegedly being tracked by some of the best clubs in Europe. He'll be on big wages and will most likely earn more than our highest earner.

 

TBH if we had used the £1.8m fee we spent on Garner plus his wages to give Dembele a good package we might have been in with a shout.

That mob got Dembele and Griffiths for less money than we paid for a Joe Swash look-alike who cant even get into the starting 11.

 

[Smile 26,610]

11 minutes ago, Albertz 78 said:

 

TBH if we had used the £1.8m fee we spent on Garner plus his wages to give Dembele a good package we might have been in with a shout.

That mob got Dembele and Griffiths for less money than we paid for a Joe Swash look-alike who cant even get into the starting 11.

 

 

 

This is it we are spunking money on Senderos Garner Barton and Kranjcar and Hill plus others who are never going to take us forward we could have got one or two decent players for that outlay.

[graeme_4 34,527]

8 minutes ago, Smile said:

This is it we are spunking money on Senderos Garner Barton and Kranjcar and Hill plus others who are never going to take us forward we could have got one or two decent players for that outlay.

I think that Kranjcar and Hill offer something different.

Senderos and Garner, don't look up to much, and Barton is a disaster. 

[Turnberry18 3,204]

5 minutes ago, graeme_4 said:

I think that Kranjcar and Hill offer something different.

Senderos and Garner, don't look up to much, and Barton is a disaster. 

Garner is a player I'd put into the category of needing to start most matches; I wouldn't write him off just yet.

[Albertz 78 918]

1 minute ago, Smile said:

This is it we are spunking money on Senderos Garner Barton and Kranjcar and Hill plus others who are never going to take us forward we could have got one or two decent players for that outlay.

 

The Garner and Barton signings were particularly dreadful and will cost the club millions of pounds. Every week £20,000 goes out of the club for Barton to sit on his backside and do nothing while also adding in another £10,000 or so going on Garner to sit on the bench and be 4th pick striker.

No idea why we signed a 38 year old CB either? We could have gone to another SPL club or used the loan market to pick up a younger better player for the same wages this guy is on.

Garner will probably be punted back down to England in 18 months for a 10th of what we paid for him.

People moan about Warbs not being given a war chest frankly the guy can not be trusted with one going by this summer.

 

 

 

[plumbGER 24,518]

2 hours ago, KWBear said:

No, there is no chance. 

Believe it if you want, I couldn't really care less. 

Celtic operate with pay brackets which are tiered. Scott Brown is, as far as I am aware, their highest earner. Scott Brown does not earn £40k per week. Anyone believing that Dembele, a 19 year old prospect signed for fulham for half a million quid earns more than the captain of the club, is an idiot. 

A few articles are in the public domain which put it into context:

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-much-moussa-dembele-earn-11542792

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/512166/Revealed-How-much-each-Celtic-player-earns-week 

several clubs missed a trick with dembele, including us. That does not make me "one of them", that does not make me full of shite, that is just a plain and simple fucking fact. he's a good player, but he does not earn £40k per week, that is a fact. 

Well given i haven't called you "one of them" or full of shite i don't think you should be quoting me as doing so.

You do, however, seem to know a lot about them eh?

 

 

[KWBear 1,640]

3 minutes ago, plumbGER said:

Well given i haven't called you "one of them" or full of shite i don't think you should be quoting me as doing so.

You do, however, seem to know a lot about them eh?

 

 

no. their tiered pay structure has been in the public domain. i know little about the organisation of the club from a financial perspective. 

i know enough about the dembele deal though. 

[Falcoholic 1,348]

So far I have stayed out of this thread because I'm stuck on the fence.

The thing is I see Warburton as a good bloke to have on the staff. From what I see and hear the youth development side of the club has been, and still is being, completely overhauled which was much needed and I think he has other strengths with the changes he has made to such things as fitness, diet and atitude to trianing etc. These things are all well documented.

Now despite him coming in last season and winning the Championship and the Petrofac and, of course, beating the mankies in the cup semi ( a feat which I hope we will repeat on Sunday, but I can't see it happening) there has been no improvements in the footballing side at all. He doesn't change formations from 433, he doesn't play a settled side and appears not to bothered too much about the gaping defence relying wholly on the theory that we should be scoring more goals than we lose.

I wonder also if the JB scenario may have been a case of Warburton not accepting criticism (or suggestions) from anyone regardlessof who they are. I also hear that MOH is out of favour due to a bust up with TAV which makes me think Warburton has his favourites.

Maybe, maybe not but I don't believe we have a happy camp at the moment and that is reflecting on how we perform on the park. Sunday will be a big tell for us, regardless he will get the rest of the season but we do need a good transfer window in January and a few of the Kings shillings to spend

[plumbGER 24,518]

12 minutes ago, KWBear said:

no. their tiered pay structure has been in the public domain. i know little about the organisation of the club from a financial perspective. 

i know enough about the dembele deal though. 

And the brown deal.

Why any Bear would want to look up the pay deals for the bheggars players beggars belief.