16 team SPL would leave a £20 million loss

[Boab 73]

I know I'm in favour of a 16 team league, more varied team and also more space for breaks/winter break.

Published Date: 05 June 2011

By Moira Gordon

Supporters reacted angrily yesterday to league chiefs' refusal to entertain the idea of an expanded top flight which would see clubs play each other just twice a season.

Representatives of the various football supporters' trusts, attending the Supporters Direct Scottish Conference at Hampden, were unimpressed when both SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster and his SFL counterpart David Longmuir made it clear that there is no chance of reverting to a top league of 16 or 18 teams.

In a survey conducted at the turn of the year, 88 per cent of fans canvassed stated they were against a ten-team set-up, with more than three-quarters stating a preference for an SPL of either 16 or 18 clubs.

But the league officials said that would mean a decrease in the number of fixtures and a decline in interest from TV companies, amounting to an estimated £20 million shortfall in the purse currently split between the SPL clubs and the SFL.

Doncaster and Longmuir also said that it would increase the number of meaningless games, which could cause significant drops in home attendances similar to those experienced by both Hibs and Aberdeen this season in post-split games after it became clear that neither team had anything to play for.

But fans were unconvinced, claiming that a rejuvenated product would entice more fans back through turnstiles and stating it was about time that the fans who turn up at games were afforded as much consideration as the armchair punters.

Doncaster, who favours a ten-team top flight, insisted that the forum had been a valuable opportunity to get the realities of the situation across to fans.

"I think the most helpful thing from my point of view was being able to explain that the choice we have is not between a ten and a 16, because football cannot afford at this point to go to a system of once home, once away," the SPL chief said.

"So we have to look at alternative models that mean playing twice home, twice away because fans cannot afford to pay more for their football but we need to, wherever we can, bring more money into football.

"If we go to a 16-team league, which would appear to be the fans' more favoured model, then we would have to find £20m from somewhere else to keep fans on the financial even keel that they are on at the moment and I do not know where that would come

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from."

He says that, unless money can be freed up by reducing the size of the top league, even the prospect of play-offs between the top two tiers remains a no go.

"If we simply open up more promotion and relegation within the existing 12 then you are asking clubs to vote for an increased chance of being relegated but with no more money in the division below.

"We see the financial pain that Inverness suffered the year before last, Falkirk last year and this year we can see what Hamilton will go through and we have to do something to address the distributions to the First Division and that's one of the fundamental reasons that ten works, because it immediately puts another £3m into that second tier of football."

Despite Doncaster's financial concerns, Dave Boyle, the chief executive of Supporters Direct UK, pointed out that the issue was more one of distribution. "I'd be surprised if there was a time when there was more money in Scottish football pound for pound than there is now," Boyle said. "The problem is not so much the income but the distribution."

With this week's event illustrating the rift between the SPL clubs, with some in favour of ten and others pitching for 14, there is a fear that the status quo will prevail, weakening the SPL's position ahead of TV contract talks in November.

One of the fans at yesterday's summit, John Keith of the Dundee FC Supporters' Society, challenged Doncaster to listen to what the paying punter wants. He said: "I'm utterly dismayed to hear that Mr Doncaster is working on the premise of four leagues of ten. That's completely not what the fans want. All the talk at the end of the last Premier League season was how Rangers and Celtic had played each other seven times. I've yet to meet fans who enjoy playing the same team time and time again."

Supporters Direct had hoped that they would have a voice on reconcstruction but, with their preferences already cast aside, it seems their collective voice is one the authorities still don't want to listen to.

- NEIL DONCASTER

http://sport.scotsman.com/football/A-16team-SPL-would-mean.6779802.jp?articlepage=2

[caseyjones 3,009]

Sensible decision from the football authorities. If the smaller clubs can find a solution to the lack of talent in the Scottish game, then they will have the opportunity to increase the size of the top division.

[mac444 6]

Here's a crazy idea that would go some way in saving a chunk of the £20million. Get rid of the SPL,SFA,SFL,SAFA,SJFA,SYFA etc and make one body governing ALL football in Scotland.

[blueben_d 40]

The 20m figure used as an excuse to shoot this down is short term thinking at it's worst.

[J-Maestro 11,093]

So this is basically a case of them saying we want to do what the fans want, then coming up with excuses on why they can't do what the fans want?

[cd true bluenose 86]

Here's a crazy idea that would go some way in saving a chunk of the £20million. Get rid of the SPL,SFA,SFL,SAFA,SJFA,SYFA etc and make one body governing ALL football in Scotland.not so crazy ????the one body idea should be adopted !

[H72 265]

The day the SPL turns into a 10 team league is the day that Scottish football finally gives up its fight and dies.

[Zappa 358]

The 20m figure used as an excuse to shoot this down is short term thinking at it's worst.

Spot on.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

increasing the amount of teams in the SPL is suicide for the league

right now there are a few teams that basically finish their season in march, they are too high up to go down, and too low to compete for europe, these teams then just play through the motions until summer

imagine there was 16 or 18 teams in the SPL, 2 relegated and top 4 get europe, so in a 16 team league positions 5 to 14 dont have fuck all worth playing, imagine your a hibs, aberdeen, inverness etc, where you are safely midtable by the end of febuary, sponsors wont pay as much for 3 months of meaningless friendlies outwith the old firm visiting, TV companies are certainly not going to pay monye for a highlights package full of friendlies

at least with a 10 team SPL theres no mid table mediocrity

[Zappa 358]

So this is basically a case of them saying we want to do what the fans want, then coming up with excuses on why they can't do what the fans want?

Yep. That's what happens when pencil-pushers run the game.

[caseyjones 3,009]

The day the SPL turns into a 10 team league is the day that Scottish football finally gives up its fight and dies.

August 30th 1975.

[j1mgg 3,766]

I am not sure how the tv money gets distributed at the moment but it should be along the line of higher up the league you finish the more you get.

All this centres around is money and nothing to do with the fans.

[colinwilkie1 1]

14 teams for me

[Zappa 358]

increasing the amount of teams in the SPL is suicide for the league

right now there are a few teams that basically finish their season in march, they are too high up to go down, and too low to compete for europe, these teams then just play through the motions until summer

imagine there was 16 or 18 teams in the SPL, 2 relegated and top 4 get europe, so in a 16 team league positions 5 to 14 dont have fuck all worth playing, imagine your a hibs, aberdeen, inverness etc, where you are safely midtable by the end of febuary, sponsors wont pay as much for 3 months of meaningless friendlies outwith the old firm visiting, TV companies are certainly not going to pay monye for a highlights package full of friendlies

at least with a 10 team SPL theres no mid table mediocrity

The following 16 team leagues seem to be doing ok.

Belgian

Greek

Portuguese

Russian

Ukrainian

Polish

Czech

Swedish

6 of those 8 leagues are ranked higher than us and at least 2 of them have changed to a 16 team league within the last 5 years.

[Jocky Broon 207]

Typical Nanny State thinking from Doncaster " we know whats best for you." Its the cancer of the UK and its high time we kicked donkeys like Doncaster into touch and replaced them with others who understand that success is largely based upon delivering what your client wants.If we start off from that point we may then find a workable financial model.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

The following 16 team leagues seem to be doing ok.

Belgian

Greek

Portuguese

Russian

Ukrainian

Polish

Czech

Swedish

6 of those 8 leagues are ranked higher than us and at least 2 of them have changed to a 16 team league within the last 5 years.

aye good for them

but the fact is there is simply no money left in scottish football, the sky/ESPN is shite as it is, you think they'll pay MORE for LESS Old Firm games, LESS EDINBURGH DERBIES and MORE piss poor mid table mediocrity games

you think supporters of mid table teams will fork out 400 quid to watch meaningless games after the end of febuary every season

[Zappa 358]

aye good for them

but the fact is there is simply no money left in scottish football, the sky/ESPN is shite as it is, you think they'll pay MORE for LESS Old Firm games, LESS EDINBURGH DERBIES and MORE piss poor mid table mediocrity games

you think supporters of mid table teams will fork out 400 quid to watch meaningless games after the end of febuary every season

There's no money left in Scottish football because the suits and blazers running it have been bleeding it dry for years while not running it properly. The SFA is complete shambles and needs gutted from top to bottom.

On top of that maybe our leading politicians should consider more funding for the running and development of the game instead of funding Celtic and catholic church backed sectarianism initiatives which are battering the country's top team with a big stick. How much money has been spent on NBM and all the other sectarianism bullshit? Does any of that crap give Scottish football good publicity?

The whole thing's a complete joke in this country and the suits and blazers running the shambles are the only ones who can fix it. If it gets fixed there's absolutely no reason why a 16 team league couldn't work and be good for the game in the long run.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

The whole thing's a complete joke in this country and the suits and blazers running the shambles are the only ones who can fix it. If it gets fixed there's absolutely no reason why a 16 team league couldn't work and be good for the game in the long run.

you half the number of old firm games and edinburgh derbies, and sky will likely walk away from scottish football

[Scott-RFC 308]

In the short term it might lose money, but in the long run we will end up with a better league

They have to think long term, its not going to lose 20m every year

It happens all the time up here, whenever a new tv deal comes up or anything, its who is giving me the most right now, not what is the best option. These wee diddy teams are a pain in the arse

[j1mgg 3,766]

How much do we actually get from tv?

[Zappa 358]

you half the number of old firm games and edinburgh derbies, and sky will likely walk away from scottish football

Fuck Sky!! That company doesn't rule the world and it's high time they were put in their place. Get Sky out of the picture by securing (or creating) an alternative broadcasting solution, get Scottish football gutted and reorganized and a few years down the line Sky will be chapping at the door again with a fair deal. Then tell them to piss off because they raped us and we're better off without them because we've got our own broadcasting network which puts all it's profits back into Scottish football.

[Sweeney 241]

2 divisions of 16 teams and then non-league football, as is the way with several european countries. A country of our size does not need 4 leagues. If we only had 2 divisions, and somebody proposed changing it to 4 divisions, they would be ridiculed. We have 4 divisions for one simple reason, England have 4 divisions and our footballing heads cannot think for themselves.

With 2 divisions, the propsects of low league teams reaching the SPL would increase a lot of the SFL teams attendances(and thus gate-receipts) ten-fold.

We would also find that Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd would become more of a force in the SPL as with that amount of teams in the league it would not be as clear-cut a two horse race as it has been for the last 20 years. They would be able to go on winning runs without playing one of the old firm every 3 weeks, and play with more confidence and be able to challenge us.

3 teams go down every year, 2 teams automatically promoted from the lower division and a 4-team play off for the final position.

With only 2 divisions, the money could be distributed more evenly, the game would be a million times more interesting and thus attract better television offers voiding that worse case scenario figure quoted of £20mil, attendances for every team in scotland would be boosted and teams might actually be able to provide a challenge for the old firm.

[Zappa 358]

3 teams go down every year, 2 teams automatically promoted from the lower division and a 4-team play off for the final position.

Another option would be to just have 3rd bottom in a play-off with 3rd top in the 2nd tier. I think that's what they do in Sweden.

[Zappa 358]

Quality post btw Sweeney!

[Brubear 2,920]

2 divisions of 16 teams and then non-league football, as is the way with several european countries. A country of our size does not need 4 leagues. If we only had 2 divisions, and somebody proposed changing it to 4 divisions, they would be ridiculed. We have 4 divisions for one simple reason, England have 4 divisions and our footballing heads cannot think for themselves.

With 2 divisions, the propsects of low league teams reaching the SPL would increase a lot of the SFL teams attendances(and thus gate-receipts) ten-fold.

We would also find that Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd would become more of a force in the SPL as with that amount of teams in the league it would not be as clear-cut a two horse race as it has been for the last 20 years. They would be able to go on winning runs without playing one of the old firm every 3 weeks, and play with more confidence and be able to challenge us.

3 teams go down every year, 2 teams automatically promoted from the lower division and a 4-team play off for the final position.

With only 2 divisions, the money could be distributed more evenly, the game would be a million times more interesting and thus attract better television offers voiding that worse case scenario figure quoted of £20mil, attendances for every team in scotland would be boosted and teams might actually be able to provide a challenge for the old firm.

I agree with alot of your post in principle. Unfortunately history shows however that if you take any 20 year window in the history of Scottish football the OF have shared 16 titles between them every time. 18 team league, 10 team league or anything in between makes no difference. Difference now is you cannot see anyone breaking the monopoly and actually winning 1 far less 4 titles in the next 20 years so we maybe do need change. That said, I am old enough to have watched Rangers before the 10 team league was introduced in 1976 and the reason it came about was because in the 18 team league there were too many meaningless games from Feb onwards. Teams who couldn't get into Europe or relegated playing teams in the same position. The other reason put forward was the OF always won the league and it would give others more chance. Back then the majority of income came from gate receipts and mechandising and very lttle from TV. Unfortunaltely the only winning option in today's world is the one which generates most TV revenue.