Something older Bears have to understand...

[THEFISH 0]

As an older bear I can honestly say things are changing and politically. For instance did anyone see the Rugby at Croke park yesterday where at the ground of Irish Republicanism ,'God save the Queen' was sung lustily and was applauded by the mostly Irish crowd. That was pretty amazing. It just shows there has been a

rejection of Irish terrorism and the overwhelming majority of both communities are heartily behind that.

Paradoxically the mindset of a lot of the Plastic paddy/scottish support of Celtic still have to make that journey. I have met a few people from the republic and they are a long way removed from that type of supporter that frequents Celtic park.

Who cares about the rugby and you had better tell yer manky mob pals at the east end tae show some respect towards our queen and country and the red white and blue :angry2:

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

I think the biggets problem with the atmosphere at Ibrox is the division in the support between those who want to sing the traditional songs (for which the club is constantly criticised) and those who feel uncomfortable with them.

These constant threads between "older bears" and "younger bears" do not help and I feel this is a very arbitrary division. Is there a certain age you have to reach to fall into the former category? In my opinion it's less about age and more about ideals.

I don't see a resolution any time soon but the one sure thing is that we need more unity at Ibrox. The fans appear to be divided. I think some people have to accept that a growing proportion of our fans do not want to sing lines such as "up to our knees in fenian blood" or songs about the IRA and pope, no matter how much of a part of our tradition this is. No amount of arguing is going to change this. So what's the solution? Cut out/change individual lyrics? Ban certain songs? Sing them anyway? Introduce new songs or re-introduce some older ones which have been forgotten?

I honestly don't know but I think debating that is more constructive than constantly having a go at each other.

We need to find some common ground on this issue so we can have the fans at Ibrox singing in one united voice.

Skol...

I dont think that is the problem.....the majority of Bears of whatever ages have rejected songs about Fenian blood....The Pope.

It songs such as The Sash/Derrys Walls which have been deemed acceptable which some object to. This is the bone of contention I believe.

[Friedmarsbar 1]

You are right about the Rugby types being different and the team which has players from North and South. But it was still amazing as I thought there would have been a protest.

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,218]

Alot of Supporters follwing Rangers now a days, in recent times, do not have the same up brining as many, we did not have Protestism and the union in our upbringins, we did not grow up with such sectarian divides, we did not grow up in times of the signing policy, or in the times of the IRA.

We do not believe that Rangers stand for BRITAIN or PROTESTANTS, we follow Rangers because it is the club we love.

The quicker older bears realise times have changed, the quicker Ibrox will become a better place....and there will be alot less bitching on this forum

Yes I'm sure you love the club ! Where were you brought up then ? Cause there is still a sectarian divide in this country, you must have led a very sheltered life my friend, what about cafflic schools then, what about cellic football club then, what about glasgow cooncil then, none of the aforementioned will employ Protestants if they can get away with it, you're either in denial or are scared of that mob and would convert in the morning. Don't forget they are only 16% of the population. This is still the times of the IRA incidently, remember every time you make a payment to satan TV thats where your cash is going allegedly. So do me a favour don't be so naive and GET YER HEID OOT THE SAND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with justiston on this one. There is only a noticable sectarian divide in our country in the central belt and most people brought up outside that are probably are naive when it comes to sectarianism.

The fact is my family are originally from Glasgow and all follow Rangers and symatise with what people would call "traditions" of this club. They sing songs about the queen, they wave the red hand when they are at games, they hate Celtic and Catholics and go to belfast regualrly. Despite most of my family supporting this, I am quite ignorant when it comes to sectarianism, not because I am young or because PC has told me it is wrong but because I realised that the majority of what they talk and sing about is not something to brag about, it's something that every true fan of Rangers Football Club should be ashamed of. RFC might be seen as an instituation to some, but others probably think that these people use RFC not as a football club, which it primarily is, but a smokescreen which you can use to spout your protestant and pro British views regularly.

It's all fine and well saying that people want to protect the traditions of our club but at the same time these people will be the ones who cause the eventaul downfall of our club too. If these incidents continue to occur then the only people who suffer as a result will be RFC when we are banned from Europe and possibly demoted to divison 1. I think protecting the achievments of RFC as a football club should be the number one priority and that will not happen if we end up being a laughing stock, both home and abroad as a result of a section of our supports opinions on things that has nothing to do with football.

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,684]

Alot of Supporters follwing Rangers now a days, in recent times, do not have the same up brining as many, we did not have Protestism and the union in our upbringins, we did not grow up with such sectarian divides, we did not grow up in times of the signing policy, or in the times of the IRA.

We do not believe that Rangers stand for Britain or PROTESTANTS, we follow Rangers because it is the club we love.

The quicker older bears realise times have changed, the quicker Ibrox will become a better place....and there will be alot less bitching on this forum

Yes I'm sure you love the club ! Where were you brought up then ? Cause there is still a sectarian divide in this country, you must have led a very sheltered life my friend, what about cafflic schools then, what about cellic football club then, what about glasgow cooncil then, none of the aforementioned will employ Protestants if they can get away with it, you're either in denial or are scared of that mob and would convert in the morning. Don't forget they are only 16% of the population. This is still the times of the IRA incidently, remember every time you make a payment to satan TV thats where your cash is going allegedly. So do me a favour don't be so naive and GET YER HEID OOT THE SAND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes there is still a sectarian divide in this country but it's totally magnified in the west of scotland. I grew up in the Highlands and didn't experience any of it until moving to Glasgow. Your black-and-white rhetoric about "them" and "us" and especially the suggestion that paying for a subscription to Setanta funds the IRA is very outdated

Sounds as though you're still in the Highlands my friend. Brian Wilson is he not from Highlands and Islands, ex Labour man, now working for cellic football club if I'm not mistaken, Was a season ticket holder at porkheid when he was politically involved like most of our labour Mp's. Aother question if it's only a West of Scotland thing why are the most of Blair's Government in opus dei, kelly, reid, martin to name but three. ? Yes definitely a few people in denial here cause it might be outdated whatever that means, but it is happening right here right now !

[Skol 401]

Alot of Supporters follwing Rangers now a days, in recent times, do not have the same up brining as many, we did not have Protestism and the union in our upbringins, we did not grow up with such sectarian divides, we did not grow up in times of the signing policy, or in the times of the IRA.

We do not believe that Rangers stand for Britain or PROTESTANTS, we follow Rangers because it is the club we love.

The quicker older bears realise times have changed, the quicker Ibrox will become a better place....and there will be alot less bitching on this forum

Yes I'm sure you love the club ! Where were you brought up then ? Cause there is still a sectarian divide in this country, you must have led a very sheltered life my friend, what about cafflic schools then, what about cellic football club then, what about glasgow cooncil then, none of the aforementioned will employ Protestants if they can get away with it, you're either in denial or are scared of that mob and would convert in the morning. Don't forget they are only 16% of the population. This is still the times of the IRA incidently, remember every time you make a payment to satan TV thats where your cash is going allegedly. So do me a favour don't be so naive and GET YER HEID OOT THE SAND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes there is still a sectarian divide in this country but it's totally magnified in the west of scotland. I grew up in the Highlands and didn't experience any of it until moving to Glasgow. Your black-and-white rhetoric about "them" and "us" and especially the suggestion that paying for a subscription to Setanta funds the IRA is very outdated

Sounds as though you're still in the Highlands my friend. Brian Wilson is he not from Highlands and Islands, ex Labour man, now working for cellic football club if I'm not mistaken, Was a season ticket holder at porkheid when he was politically involved like most of our labour Mp's. Aother question if it's only a West of Scotland thing why are the most of Blair's Government in opus dei, kelly, reid, martin to name but three. ? Yes definitely a few people in denial here cause it might be outdated whatever that means, but it is happening right here right now !

Show me where in my post I said it's only in the west of scotland. I'm not denying there is a sectarian divide. I pointed out that in the west of scotland it's a much more obvious/intense spectre. I don't think many people would contest the point that the west of scotland has a big problem with this. I also took exception to your contention that paying a subscription to Setanta funds the IRA. Maybe you'd like to share your evidence for that one

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,684]

Alot of Supporters follwing Rangers now a days, in recent times, do not have the same up brining as many, we did not have Protestism and the union in our upbringins, we did not grow up with such sectarian divides, we did not grow up in times of the signing policy, or in the times of the IRA.

We do not believe that Rangers stand for Britain or PROTESTANTS, we follow Rangers because it is the club we love.

The quicker older bears realise times have changed, the quicker Ibrox will become a better place....and there will be alot less bitching on this forum

Yes I'm sure you love the club ! Where were you brought up then ? Cause there is still a sectarian divide in this country, you must have led a very sheltered life my friend, what about cafflic schools then, what about cellic football club then, what about glasgow cooncil then, none of the aforementioned will employ Protestants if they can get away with it, you're either in denial or are scared of that mob and would convert in the morning. Don't forget they are only 16% of the population. This is still the times of the IRA incidently, remember every time you make a payment to satan TV thats where your cash is going allegedly. So do me a favour don't be so naive and GET YER HEID OOT THE SAND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes there is still a sectarian divide in this country but it's totally magnified in the west of scotland. I grew up in the Highlands and didn't experience any of it until moving to Glasgow. Your black-and-white rhetoric about "them" and "us" and especially the suggestion that paying for a subscription to Setanta funds the IRA is very outdated

Sounds as though you're still in the Highlands my friend. Brian Wilson is he not from Highlands and Islands, ex Labour man, now working for cellic football club if I'm not mistaken, Was a season ticket holder at porkheid when he was politically involved like most of our labour Mp's. Aother question if it's only a West of Scotland thing why are the most of Blair's Government in opus dei, kelly, reid, martin to name but three. ? Yes definitely a few people in denial here cause it might be outdated whatever that means, but it is happening right here right now !

Show me where in my post I said it's only in the west of scotland. I'm not denying there is a sectarian divide. I pointed out that in the west of scotland it's a much more obvious/intense spectre. I don't think many people would contest the point that the west of scotland has a big problem with this. I also took exception to your contention that paying a subscription to Setanta funds the IRA. Maybe you'd like to share your evidence for that one

To me it ain't a big problem it's been here for years and probably will be here when we're all dead and gone ? As for satan tv you obviously got shares in them so keep on payin the subscription. Mmm why would a fellow Glasgow Rangers supporter take exception to another about a foreign tv station, odd in the extreme ????

[j1mgg 3,766]

surely this is nothing about old and young but more about those who support rangers for other reasons - being hating catholics, some political agenda or some other crap.

I am an atheyst with no politiacal agenda, live in scotland, not racist and dont support the queen, but i do support rangers as a football team

[polar bear 0]

Alot of Supporters follwing Rangers now a days, in recent times, do not have the same up brining as many, we did not have Protestism and the union in our upbringins, we did not grow up with such sectarian divides, we did not grow up in times of the signing policy, or in the times of the IRA.

We do not believe that Rangers stand for Britain or PROTESTANTS, we follow Rangers because it is the club we love.

The quicker older bears realise times have changed, the quicker Ibrox will become a better place....and there will be alot less bitching on this forum

Sony Jim I am one of the older bears and I will continue till the day I die to stick to my old traditions coz Im comfortable and happy and if you and anybody else cant accept that then thats your problem

I have always said I would oblige and not sing inside the grounds etc but during my own time I will belt out what ever I like

NO SURRENDER WE ARE THE PEOPLE (harhar)

Couldn't have put it better myself,the world is racing to sef-destruction,and tiny minds are worried about wind-up songs in a fooball ground,and how many hands you

are allowed to hold up.

[polar bear 0]

i think we should never lose our traditions it is what make's us a special club imo

I find it incredible that someone using the title of snoopyboymason should find this salute expectable or did no one teach you about the forget-me-not either take the time to learn about it or delete the mason part of your name snoopyboy

you have picked up snoopyboy wrong he was just on about rangers traditions and does not mention anything about salutes as nobody could defend that behaviour.

Exactly,and that is what most older Bears would say. I think can't remember ever raising one hand when I was a regular at Ibrox,don't really know the significace of doing it,and if it isn't really hurting anyone then WTF.

[nvager 498]

A typical slippery answer from Fishyface!

[rossDas 1,071]

I've never cared for religious hatred but I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion.

Remember that nasty people are always the loudest and the clean majority are unspoken for.

I've met very few bigots. A notable exeption being one fool who accused me of opressing Ireland just for being a Rangers fan.

Then again i'm not from Glasgow or the west coast so I probably dont see the worst of it.

[californiadreamin52 339]

i think we should never lose our traditions it is what make's us a special club imo

I find it incredible that someone using the title of snoopyboymason should find this salute expectable or did no one teach you about the forget-me-not either take the time to learn about it or delete the mason part of your name snoopyboy

you have picked up snoopyboy wrong he was just on about rangers traditions and does not mention anything about salutes as nobody could defend that behaviour.

Exactly,and that is what most older Bears would say. I think can't remember ever raising one hand when I was a regular at Ibrox,don't really know the significace of doing it,and if it isn't really hurting anyone then WTF.

Ignorance is not an excuse if you do not know the significance of your action you should at least make an attempt at learning about them before doing it again, as these same action are shown across the world portraying us a mindless fascists and that is where the hurt and damage is done

[polar bear 0]

i think we should never lose our traditions it is what make's us a special club imo

I find it incredible that someone using the title of snoopyboymason should find this salute expectable or did no one teach you about the forget-me-not either take the time to learn about it or delete the mason part of your name snoopyboy

you have picked up snoopyboy wrong he was just on about rangers traditions and does not mention anything about salutes as nobody could defend that behaviour.

Exactly,and that is what most older Bears would say. I think can't remember ever raising one hand when I was a regular at Ibrox,don't really know the significace of doing it,and if it isn't really hurting anyone then WTF.

Ignorance is not an excuse if you do not know the significance of your action you should at least make an attempt at learning about them before doing it again, as these same action are shown across the world portraying us a mindless fascists and that is where the hurt and damage is done

what action?I didn't say I had done it personally,but who are you to tell I can't? IGNORANCE? a bad choice of words pal. :Animation44:

[Briton 394]

I changed my mindset in the past, I used to sing Billy boys, no pope of rome etc, I grew up, realised that these songs had no place at my clubs ground, and stopped singing them, it really is that simple.

Ditto. Actually from what I've seen the people keeping this up are often pretty young.

[polar bear 0]

Alot of Supporters follwing Rangers now a days, in recent times, do not have the same up brining as many, we did not have Protestism and the union in our upbringins, we did not grow up with such sectarian divides, we did not grow up in times of the signing policy, or in the times of the IRA.

We do not believe that Rangers stand for Britain or PROTESTANTS, we follow Rangers because it is the club we love.

The quicker older bears realise times have changed, the quicker Ibrox will become a better place....and there will be alot less bitching on this forum

Hey! thanks for making me understand sonny,I'm a completely changed man now.

[californiadreamin52 339]

i think we should never lose our traditions it is what make's us a special club imo

I find it incredible that someone using the title of snoopyboymason should find this salute expectable or did no one teach you about the forget-me-not either take the time to learn about it or delete the mason part of your name snoopyboy

you have picked up snoopyboy wrong he was just on about rangers traditions and does not mention anything about salutes as nobody could defend that behaviour.

Exactly,and that is what most older Bears would say. I think can't remember ever raising one hand when I was a regular at Ibrox,don't really know the significace of doing it,and if it isn't really hurting anyone then WTF.

Ignorance is not an excuse if you do not know the significance of your action you should at least make an attempt at learning about them before doing it again, as these same action are shown across the world portraying us a mindless fascists and that is where the hurt and damage is done

what action?I didn't say I had done it personally,but who are you to tell I can't? IGNORANCE? a bad choice of words pal. :Animation44:

It my club as well as yours and if your hurting the club by this course of action and putting it in a bad light around the world its all Rangers supporter right to tell you to stop it, its call collective responsibility the club comes first

even before your feeling

[Skol 401]

Alot of Supporters follwing Rangers now a days, in recent times, do not have the same up brining as many, we did not have Protestism and the union in our upbringins, we did not grow up with such sectarian divides, we did not grow up in times of the signing policy, or in the times of the IRA.

We do not believe that Rangers stand for Britain or PROTESTANTS, we follow Rangers because it is the club we love.

The quicker older bears realise times have changed, the quicker Ibrox will become a better place....and there will be alot less bitching on this forum

Yes I'm sure you love the club ! Where were you brought up then ? Cause there is still a sectarian divide in this country, you must have led a very sheltered life my friend, what about cafflic schools then, what about cellic football club then, what about glasgow cooncil then, none of the aforementioned will employ Protestants if they can get away with it, you're either in denial or are scared of that mob and would convert in the morning. Don't forget they are only 16% of the population. This is still the times of the IRA incidently, remember every time you make a payment to satan TV thats where your cash is going allegedly. So do me a favour don't be so naive and GET YER HEID OOT THE SAND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes there is still a sectarian divide in this country but it's totally magnified in the west of scotland. I grew up in the Highlands and didn't experience any of it until moving to Glasgow. Your black-and-white rhetoric about "them" and "us" and especially the suggestion that paying for a subscription to Setanta funds the IRA is very outdated

Sounds as though you're still in the Highlands my friend. Brian Wilson is he not from Highlands and Islands, ex Labour man, now working for cellic football club if I'm not mistaken, Was a season ticket holder at porkheid when he was politically involved like most of our labour Mp's. Aother question if it's only a West of Scotland thing why are the most of Blair's Government in opus dei, kelly, reid, martin to name but three. ? Yes definitely a few people in denial here cause it might be outdated whatever that means, but it is happening right here right now !

Show me where in my post I said it's only in the west of scotland. I'm not denying there is a sectarian divide. I pointed out that in the west of scotland it's a much more obvious/intense spectre. I don't think many people would contest the point that the west of scotland has a big problem with this. I also took exception to your contention that paying a subscription to Setanta funds the IRA. Maybe you'd like to share your evidence for that one

To me it ain't a big problem it's been here for years and probably will be here when we're all dead and gone ? As for satan tv you obviously got shares in them so keep on payin the subscription. Mmm why would a fellow Glasgow Rangers supporter take exception to another about a foreign tv station, odd in the extreme ????

So that was no evidence whatsoever, glad that's cleared up. I hate becoming embroiled in these petty arguments but if you continually cast aspersions on me I feel obliged to answer them. And for your information:

1) Setanta sports paid for the rights to Scottish football, so whilst they are undeniably making money, they are also helping to fund the Scottish game.

2) I'm not actually a subscriber/shareholder.

3) Please don't find it odd when your wild accusations about TV companies funding terrorist groups are challenged on a public message board, no matter the nationality of the company.

[jocklives2 0]

what we are aked to do..sit down dont sing naughty songs or say anything about the other side that might offend..ffs the place is dead enough without us arguing amognst our selves..oh and the thing about Croke Park it seems back in the 20,s ira killed some goverment spies and the black and tans turned up at a sports meeting at croke and opened fire on the crowd..woult you like to respect the "english anthem" with that on your mind ...i also agree about stopping the red hand salute..

[majorcager 0]

Something younger bears have to understand is firstly if anybody from any other club or the press is reading this forum they must be pissing themselves laughing. Its about time we showed a united front instead of this ridiculous in fighting and that unless we get rid of the tree huggers and the pc brigade the atmosphere next season will be worse than ever.

[Ayrshire_blue 0]

Alot of Supporters follwing Rangers now a days, in recent times, do not have the same up brining as many, we did not have Protestism and the union in our upbringins, we did not grow up with such sectarian divides, we did not grow up in times of the signing policy, or in the times of the IRA.

We do not believe that Rangers stand for Britain or PROTESTANTS, we follow Rangers because it is the club we love.

The quicker older bears realise times have changed, the quicker Ibrox will become a better place....and there will be alot less bitching on this forum

Many people were butchered during the troubles,simply for being British & protestant.

Many of these people followed Rangers `because it was the team they loved'.

Or do our murdered fellow bears not count?.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Alot of Supporters follwing Rangers now a days, in recent times, do not have the same up brining as many, we did not have Protestism and the union in our upbringins, we did not grow up with such sectarian divides, we did not grow up in times of the signing policy, or in the times of the IRA.

We do not believe that Rangers stand for Britain or PROTESTANTS, we follow Rangers because it is the club we love.

The quicker older bears realise times have changed, the quicker Ibrox will become a better place....and there will be alot less bitching on this forum

Justiston

1. I have absolutely no problem with your philosophy about why you follow Rangers...as I have said many a time on here each to their own. I have also qualified that further in a no. of posts where I have stated that not being interested in Britain/Supporting the Union etc makes you no less of a bear than someone who does.

2. The irony of a lot of the debates has been that some of those who feel as you do, seem to be totally intolerant of others right to have a different philosophy as to why they follow Rangers.

3. The characteristics and identity of our club were not manufactured or dreamed up by people with an agenda. The have evolved and developed over time and are things which were and still are important to the followers of this club. They tell us who we are...where we have come from and what we are about.

4. The fact you suggest times have changed and older bears need to realise this to make Ibrox a better place..is in itself judgemental. Just because you dont agree with the Union you feel the majority who do should change to accomodate your philosophy ? In actual fact you are seeking to impose your philosphy on others.

And guess what ?

We ain't having it.

[majorcager 0]

Alot of Supporters follwing Rangers now a days, in recent times, do not have the same up brining as many, we did not have Protestism and the union in our upbringins, we did not grow up with such sectarian divides, we did not grow up in times of the signing policy, or in the times of the IRA.

We do not believe that Rangers stand for Britain or PROTESTANTS, we follow Rangers because it is the club we love.

The quicker older bears realise times have changed, the quicker Ibrox will become a better place....and there will be alot less bitching on this forum

Justiston

1. I have absolutely no problem with your philosophy about why you follow Rangers...as I have said many a time on here each to their own. I have also qualified that further in a no. of posts where I have stated that not being interested in Britain/Supporting the Union etc makes you no less of a bear than someone who does.

2. The irony of a lot of the debates has been that some of those who feel as you do, seem to be totally intolerant of others right to have a different philosophy as to why they follow Rangers.

3. The characteristics and identity of our club were not manufactured or dreamed up by people with an agenda. The have evolved and developed over time and are things which were and still are important to the followers of this club. They tell us who we are...where we have come from and what we are about.

4. The fact you suggest times have changed and older bears need to realise this to make Ibrox a better place..is in itself judgemental. Just because you dont agree with the Union you feel the majority who do should change to accomodate your philosophy ? In actual fact you are seeking to impose your philosphy on others.

And guess what ?

We ain't having it.

Exactly what i was trying to say cheers dt

[nvager 498]

Traditions die hard. Many should remain for ever, but we should be careful not to besmirch our reputation at Ibrox and other grounds by singing the BB and FTP. In private do what you want as it really does not matter.

[minstral 5,375]

Traditions die hard. Many should remain for ever, but we should be careful not to besmirch our reputation at Ibrox and other grounds by singing the BB and FTP. In private do what you want as it really does not matter.

spot on no place for up to our knees or ftp but never forget our traditions or what it meanns to support the club we all love.