Crime of the century ?

[IfYeCannae 48]

I always seem to notice it's the same people who post the same drivel on here behind the keyboard.

I have never met any of these folk when at a match, they are all very fucking quiet, especially at Ibrox.

Perhaps the handwringers (who are worse than fucking taigs) should write some songs (wait Minty gave you lot a blue fucking handbook, the ultimate handwringer, actually tried to help you cunts and create some sort of atmosphere), sing them, instead of sitting there, talking shite, shaking their head and tut tutting under their, oh so very, holier than thou breath at the very hearing of those big bad songs, by the big bad, what was it, "Protestant shite" they dislike so much.

I forgot, you lot probably don't go or indeed you know what would happen if you spouted that shite at a game.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

TravelingWilBEARy do suck donkey's d!cks ?

You talk so much shyte, you need to learn about the club your 'meant' to support and report back here as a real Bear or just go back to your like minded friends scum over on taigminded....

As I said I haven't resorted to childish name-calling but it seems to be beyond some posters.

Grow up, mate.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

I always seem to notice it's the same people who post the same drivel on here behind the keyboard.

I have never met any of these folk when at a match, they are all very fucking quiet, especially at Ibrox.

Perhaps the handwringers (who are worse than fucking taigs) should write some songs (wait Minty gave you lot a blue fucking handbook, the ultimate handwringer, actually tried to help you cunts and create some sort of atmosphere), sing them, instead of sitting there, talking shite, shaking their head and tut tutting under their, oh so very, holier than thou breath at the very hearing of those big bad songs, by the big bad, what was it, "Protestant shite" they dislike so much.

I forgot, you lot probably don't go or indeed you know what would happen if you spouted that shite at a game.

Why dont you swear at them some more?

As for the highlighted part - only one person said that. Us - insert offensive label here - types dont have one generic opinion.

[.Williamson. 87,190]

TravelingWilBEARy do suck donkey's d!cks ?

You talk so much shyte, you need to learn about the club your 'meant' to support and report back here as a real Bear or just go back to your like minded friends scum over on taigminded....

Completely uncalled for.

So are most of his posts, on the topic of your last post 'Catholics supporting Rangers;

I much prefer no signalisation of any one, as either one or the other, we are a world breaking club who loves any one who supports our glorious club as a fellow bear.

I personally know people of different faiths(3 of them are catholics if you need to know) that support us, and just as proudly as anyone else. I've never needed to know what religion they are or where they come from, unlike the 'Celtic minded' opinion of the tramps over the road

We have Loyalist/Protestant/Unionists traditions which will never change, regardless of any h/w, taigs etc that try and infect our forums to spout pish,…

I have alot of respect for people like that, personally I could never support a club that was almost completely against my religious background i.e cltic.

Fair play to them.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

And as for Ritchieshearercaldow. What has the pope to do with our club at all.??

I go back to our beginnings. We weren't established as a protestant club.

The Pope has nothing to do with Rangers Football Club, but the club stood for everthing anti Rome and Pro Queen and country, something the Catholics didn't, their allegance was to their Pope first then their Monarch, the inhabitants of the city saw it being swamped with Irish catholics, when the Irish priest set up his club for Irish immigrants, the reaction from the Protestant majority was to take Rangers on as their club, it wasn't a hate thing, it was a NO POPERY thing.

All clubs have Traditions and history, if we forget these we are nothing.

The old saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" should still hold true, it's just a pity that in this PC world, the handringers don't like the name calling.

If I can just jump in here and say that no sane person can advocate us forgetting our clubs histories and traditions. What I am saying is we can always be proud of where we came from and what we have stood for but remove the darker elements of our support and move forward into the 21st Century as a united, tolerant support who can be untouchable from our enemies.

We can use our traditions and history as a unifying force instead of a divisive tool which splits our support.

That's an ideal concept, but in any faction or group you'll find extreemists or darker elemets, it' part and parcel of any religion,political party or football club, we have just got to put up with it or become zombies with no views or differing opinions. Timmy believes one thing, we believe another, what's wrong with the rivalry? it's when it turns to violence that it's unacceptable, singing a song may cause offence to some but it never caused bodily harm, as I said "Sticks and Stones"

Nothing wrong with rivalry - Though it's a bit naive to suggest that songs dont cause harm, they contribute to an atmosphere which drives people to go onto the streets after games and cause carnage.

[IfYeCannae 48]

I always seem to notice it's the same people who post the same drivel on here behind the keyboard.

I have never met any of these folk when at a match, they are all very fucking quiet, especially at Ibrox.

Perhaps the handwringers (who are worse than fucking taigs) should write some songs (wait Minty gave you lot a blue fucking handbook, the ultimate handwringer, actually tried to help you cunts and create some sort of atmosphere), sing them, instead of sitting there, talking shite, shaking their head and tut tutting under their, oh so very, holier than thou breath at the very hearing of those big bad songs, by the big bad, what was it, "Protestant shite" they dislike so much.

I forgot, you lot probably don't go or indeed you know what would happen if you spouted that shite at a game.

Why dont you swear at them some more?

As for the highlighted part - only one person said that. Us - insert offensive label here - types dont have one generic opinion.

I do swear a lot, it's true.

[martin93 136]

I always seem to notice it's the same people who post the same drivel on here behind the keyboard.

I have never met any of these folk when at a match, they are all very fucking quiet, especially at Ibrox.

Perhaps the handwringers (who are worse than fucking taigs) should write some songs (wait Minty gave you lot a blue fucking handbook, the ultimate handwringer, actually tried to help you cunts and create some sort of atmosphere), sing them, instead of sitting there, talking shite, shaking their head and tut tutting under their, oh so very, holier than thou breath at the very hearing of those big bad songs, by the big bad, what was it, "Protestant shite" they dislike so much.

I forgot, you lot probably don't go or indeed you know what would happen if you spouted that shite at a game.

Exactly well said these cunts go on and on on the internet thinking they are all this and all that yet like you say dont say a word at the games because they know what would happen to them half these cunts are cowards

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

I always seem to notice it's the same people who post the same drivel on here behind the keyboard.

I have never met any of these folk when at a match, they are all very fucking quiet, especially at Ibrox.

Perhaps the handwringers (who are worse than fucking taigs) should write some songs (wait Minty gave you lot a blue fucking handbook, the ultimate handwringer, actually tried to help you cunts and create some sort of atmosphere), sing them, instead of sitting there, talking shite, shaking their head and tut tutting under their, oh so very, holier than thou breath at the very hearing of those big bad songs, by the big bad, what was it, "Protestant shite" they dislike so much.

I forgot, you lot probably don't go or indeed you know what would happen if you spouted that shite at a game.

Exactly well said these cunts go on and on on the internet thinking they are all this and all that yet like you say dont say a word at the games because they know what would happen to them half these cunts are cowards

I usually concentrate on the game myself.

[ritchieshearercaldow 22,389]

And as for Ritchieshearercaldow. What has the pope to do with our club at all.??

I go back to our beginnings. We weren't established as a protestant club.

The Pope has nothing to do with Rangers Football Club, but the club stood for everthing anti Rome and Pro Queen and country, something the Catholics didn't, their allegance was to their Pope first then their Monarch, the inhabitants of the city saw it being swamped with Irish catholics, when the Irish priest set up his club for Irish immigrants, the reaction from the Protestant majority was to take Rangers on as their club, it wasn't a hate thing, it was a NO POPERY thing.

All clubs have Traditions and history, if we forget these we are nothing.

The old saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" should still hold true, it's just a pity that in this PC world, the handringers don't like the name calling.

If I can just jump in here and say that no sane person can advocate us forgetting our clubs histories and traditions. What I am saying is we can always be proud of where we came from and what we have stood for but remove the darker elements of our support and move forward into the 21st Century as a united, tolerant support who can be untouchable from our enemies.

We can use our traditions and history as a unifying force instead of a divisive tool which splits our support.

That's an ideal concept, but in any faction or group you'll find extreemists or darker elemets, it' part and parcel of any religion,political party or football club, we have just got to put up with it or become zombies with no views or differing opinions. Timmy believes one thing, we believe another, what's wrong with the rivalry? it's when it turns to violence that it's unacceptable, singing a song may cause offence to some but it never caused bodily harm, as I said "Sticks and Stones"

Nothing wrong with rivalry - Though it's a bit naive to suggest that songs dont cause harm, they contribute to an atmosphere which drives people to go onto the streets after games and cause carnage.

It's not the songs, these people want a fight and the songs, like the name calling, just gives the excuse, if someone want's a fight then they'll find some other excuse, most violence in the steets isn't caused by songs, it's because someone want's a fight and any excuse will do.

[AJK51 0]

TravelingWilBEARy do suck donkey's d!cks ?

You talk so much shyte, you need to learn about the club your 'meant' to support and report back here as a real Bear or just go back to your like minded friends scum over on taigminded....

As I said I haven't resorted to childish name-calling but it seems to be beyond some posters.

Grow up, mate.

Funny you try and move to the moral high ground after talking a load of shyte that has no foundation.

As I said, I suggest you learn about the club your meant to love - as its more about the love for the club, the heritage, the brotherhood, friendship that helps you though these periods - and obviously winning the league over the mhankies makes it especially good.

It feels great beating the tramps though - doesn’t it ?

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

TravelingWilBEARy do suck donkey's d!cks ?

You talk so much shyte, you need to learn about the club your 'meant' to support and report back here as a real Bear or just go back to your like minded friends scum over on taigminded....

As I said I haven't resorted to childish name-calling but it seems to be beyond some posters.

Grow up, mate.

Funny you try and move to the moral high ground after talking a load of shyte that has no foundation.

As I said, I suggest you learn about the club your meant to love - as just its more about the love for the club, the heritage, the love, the brotherhood, friendship that helps you though these periods - and obviously winning the league over the mhankies makes it especially good.

It feels great beating the tramps though - doesn't it ?

You know absolutely nothing about me. You may disagree with what I said but at least I have argued rationally.

By the way, it does feel fantastic beating them. Went to my first Oldfirm game in 1992 (1-1 draw - Durrant equalised after Crainey put them ahead) with my first victory over them on New Years day that season (1-0 win with a Trevor Steven header). Nothing like it.

I dont believe I have disrespected Rangers history and heritage at all. In fact I have consistently said we should be proud of it.

Dont bother replying, I have absolutely no interest in anything you have to say - unless it's an apology for the childish remark above.

[Dennis 1,011]

fuck the pope and the handwringers

[bluepeter 5,627]

Ok, during this thread I have been called, on various occasions, a tim, an I.R.A Sympathiser, a cunt and D'Artagnan said I disgusted him all for daring to offer a differing opinion.

If you so-called guardians and defenders of this clubs histories and traditions cannot debate rationally with one of your own then I fear for this club, I really do. I have shown restraint and tried to debate without resorting to childish name-calling but it seems to be beyond some members to extend to me the same courtesy.

There seems to be a very real and very worrying split in our support. One side clinging to a fading culture they cannot properly define and one side who wants to move away from it. Both sides have the clubs best interests at heart but disagree about how we see Rangers Football Club in the 21st Century.

If we can get rid of our darker element, cut out the stuff that has no place at a football ground and unite as a support then maybe we can move forward and attain the parity that D'Artagnan spoke of in his original post. But it is going to take a comprimise, on both sides.

It is crystal clear that our great club has more than enough enemies without our support splitting into factions. I may get the usual abuse for this post but I urge people to remember that I am one of us and to extend me the respect that a supporter of Rangers deserves.

We Are The People

Shut up you tim!

[outlaw69uk 123]

And as for Ritchieshearercaldow. What has the pope to do with our club at all.??

I go back to our beginnings. We weren't established as a protestant club.

The Pope has nothing to do with Rangers Football Club, but the club stood for everthing anti Rome and Pro Queen and country, something the Catholics didn't, their allegance was to their Pope first then their Monarch, the inhabitants of the city saw it being swamped with Irish catholics, when the Irish priest set up his club for Irish immigrants, the reaction from the Protestant majority was to take Rangers on as their club, it wasn't a hate thing, it was a NO POPERY thing.

All clubs have Traditions and history, if we forget these we are nothing.

The old saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" should still hold true, it's just a pity that in this PC world, the handringers don't like the name calling.

If I can just jump in here and say that no sane person can advocate us forgetting our clubs histories and traditions. What I am saying is we can always be proud of where we came from and what we have stood for but remove the darker elements of our support and move forward into the 21st Century as a united, tolerant support who can be untouchable from our enemies.

We can use our traditions and history as a unifying force instead of a divisive tool which splits our support.

That's an ideal concept, but in any faction or group you'll find extreemists or darker elemets, it' part and parcel of any religion,political party or football club, we have just got to put up with it or become zombies with no views or differing opinions. Timmy believes one thing, we believe another, what's wrong with the rivalry? it's when it turns to violence that it's unacceptable, singing a song may cause offence to some but it never caused bodily harm, as I said "Sticks and Stones"

Nothing wrong with rivalry - Though it's a bit naive to suggest that songs dont cause harm, they contribute to an atmosphere which drives people to go onto the streets after games and cause carnage.

You mentioned earlier about condescending? Well, its hard not to in reply to that one am afraid! I think you will find, in pretty much all of British (world?)society, that, things like alcohol and chav like behaviour cause violence, especially when combined, not songs!

[outlaw69uk 123]

And as for Ritchieshearercaldow. What has the pope to do with our club at all.??

I go back to our beginnings. We weren't established as a protestant club.

The Pope has nothing to do with Rangers Football Club, but the club stood for everthing anti Rome and Pro Queen and country, something the Catholics didn't, their allegance was to their Pope first then their Monarch, the inhabitants of the city saw it being swamped with Irish catholics, when the Irish priest set up his club for Irish immigrants, the reaction from the Protestant majority was to take Rangers on as their club, it wasn't a hate thing, it was a NO POPERY thing.

All clubs have Traditions and history, if we forget these we are nothing.

The old saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" should still hold true, it's just a pity that in this PC world, the handringers don't like the name calling.

If I can just jump in here and say that no sane person can advocate us forgetting our clubs histories and traditions. What I am saying is we can always be proud of where we came from and what we have stood for but remove the darker elements of our support and move forward into the 21st Century as a united, tolerant support who can be untouchable from our enemies.

We can use our traditions and history as a unifying force instead of a divisive tool which splits our support.

Please define that? What are these "darker elements" please?

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

And as for Ritchieshearercaldow. What has the pope to do with our club at all.??

I go back to our beginnings. We weren't established as a protestant club.

The Pope has nothing to do with Rangers Football Club, but the club stood for everthing anti Rome and Pro Queen and country, something the Catholics didn't, their allegance was to their Pope first then their Monarch, the inhabitants of the city saw it being swamped with Irish catholics, when the Irish priest set up his club for Irish immigrants, the reaction from the Protestant majority was to take Rangers on as their club, it wasn't a hate thing, it was a NO POPERY thing.

All clubs have Traditions and history, if we forget these we are nothing.

The old saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" should still hold true, it's just a pity that in this PC world, the handringers don't like the name calling.

If I can just jump in here and say that no sane person can advocate us forgetting our clubs histories and traditions. What I am saying is we can always be proud of where we came from and what we have stood for but remove the darker elements of our support and move forward into the 21st Century as a united, tolerant support who can be untouchable from our enemies.

We can use our traditions and history as a unifying force instead of a divisive tool which splits our support.

Please define that? What are these "darker elements" please?

I think he's being racist.

B7

[outlaw69uk 123]

Going back to the OP, and following "discussions"

Especially in this day and age, EVERY person has the right to defend themselves, as do every organisation. The whole problem with the oh so nicely worded "moving forward" type phrases, is, that they are anything but. If, as those classed as handwringers say, the fans holding on to the religious and political views (that as people they will more than likely ALWAYS have held) are in the minority (which they arent), then, surely, as tolerant, all inclusive types, the "handwringers" should be the first ones to speak up and defend them, and their rights? Defending "their own", the small few who are being (for want of a better word) bullied! Victimised by the masses due to their religion and beliefs, as well as the club they support. They defend the rights of most other religions, bringing it up in "debate"

They dont though do they? No, they get on internet forums with spurious claims that they are "doing the club harm" and the like, So, THEIR ethos as the claim, is in fact a lie, and hypocrisy abounds!

On the part about the songs, as I made mention of earlier, which was conveniently overlooked.... since the big bad Protestants are doing all this harm...

Where? When?

The last, and, pretty much only instance of any sort of "punishment", was the one time, and, how many years ago was this? Where are all the punishments over the last couple of years then? Or, perhaps, just perhaps, the garbage about songs causing harm is just that? Seriously, since it is so bad and damaging, perhaps a catalogue of punishments received can be made? There are people so against them that it must be common knowledge? Put down some simple facts, a list of punishments that clearly show that the "harm" is being done, or, shut the hell up about songs causing harm, because, if you cant, then, they obviously arent!

[outlaw69uk 123]

And as for Ritchieshearercaldow. What has the pope to do with our club at all.??

I go back to our beginnings. We weren't established as a protestant club.

The Pope has nothing to do with Rangers Football Club, but the club stood for everthing anti Rome and Pro Queen and country, something the Catholics didn't, their allegance was to their Pope first then their Monarch, the inhabitants of the city saw it being swamped with Irish catholics, when the Irish priest set up his club for Irish immigrants, the reaction from the Protestant majority was to take Rangers on as their club, it wasn't a hate thing, it was a NO POPERY thing.

All clubs have Traditions and history, if we forget these we are nothing.

The old saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" should still hold true, it's just a pity that in this PC world, the handringers don't like the name calling.

If I can just jump in here and say that no sane person can advocate us forgetting our clubs histories and traditions. What I am saying is we can always be proud of where we came from and what we have stood for but remove the darker elements of our support and move forward into the 21st Century as a united, tolerant support who can be untouchable from our enemies.

We can use our traditions and history as a unifying force instead of a divisive tool which splits our support.

Please define that? What are these "darker elements" please?

I think he's being racist.

[disgruntled_bear 157]

Going back to the OP, and following "discussions"

Especially in this day and age, EVERY person has the right to defend themselves, as do every organisation. The whole problem with the oh so nicely worded "moving forward" type phrases, is, that they are anything but. If, as those classed as handwringers say, the fans holding on to the religious and political views (that as people they will more than likely ALWAYS have held) are in the minority (which they arent), then, surely, as tolerant, all inclusive types, the "handwringers" should be the first ones to speak up and defend them, and their rights? Defending "their own", the small few who are being (for want of a better word) bullied! Victimised by the masses due to their religion and beliefs, as well as the club they support. They defend the rights of most other religions, bringing it up in "debate"

They dont though do they? No, they get on internet forums with spurious claims that they are "doing the club harm" and the like, So, THEIR ethos as the claim, is in fact a lie, and hypocrisy abounds!

On the part about the songs, as I made mention of earlier, which was conveniently overlooked.... since the big bad Protestants are doing all this harm...

Where? When?

The last, and, pretty much only instance of any sort of "punishment", was the one time, and, how many years ago was this? Where are all the punishments over the last couple of years then? Or, perhaps, just perhaps, the garbage about songs causing harm is just that? Seriously, since it is so bad and damaging, perhaps a catalogue of punishments received can be made? There are people so against them that it must be common knowledge? Put down some simple facts, a list of punishments that clearly show that the "harm" is being done, or, shut the hell up about songs causing harm, because, if you cant, then, they obviously arent!

See what some don't seem to realize it's not the religion that's the problem, it's certain individuals that's carry that tag to hide behind and fuel there own agenda's.

Now I don't think anybody would disagree, that some of our fans don't carry themselves well. That is why we get so much bad press and all tagged with the same brush.

[outlaw69uk 123]

Going back to the OP, and following "discussions"

Especially in this day and age, EVERY person has the right to defend themselves, as do every organisation. The whole problem with the oh so nicely worded "moving forward" type phrases, is, that they are anything but. If, as those classed as handwringers say, the fans holding on to the religious and political views (that as people they will more than likely ALWAYS have held) are in the minority (which they arent), then, surely, as tolerant, all inclusive types, the "handwringers" should be the first ones to speak up and defend them, and their rights? Defending "their own", the small few who are being (for want of a better word) bullied! Victimised by the masses due to their religion and beliefs, as well as the club they support. They defend the rights of most other religions, bringing it up in "debate"

They dont though do they? No, they get on internet forums with spurious claims that they are "doing the club harm" and the like, So, THEIR ethos as the claim, is in fact a lie, and hypocrisy abounds!

On the part about the songs, as I made mention of earlier, which was conveniently overlooked.... since the big bad Protestants are doing all this harm...

Where? When?

The last, and, pretty much only instance of any sort of "punishment", was the one time, and, how many years ago was this? Where are all the punishments over the last couple of years then? Or, perhaps, just perhaps, the garbage about songs causing harm is just that? Seriously, since it is so bad and damaging, perhaps a catalogue of punishments received can be made? There are people so against them that it must be common knowledge? Put down some simple facts, a list of punishments that clearly show that the "harm" is being done, or, shut the hell up about songs causing harm, because, if you cant, then, they obviously arent!

See what some don't seem to realize it's not the religion that's the problem, it's certain individuals that's carry that tag to hide behind and fuel there own agenda's.

Now I don't think anybody would disagree, that some of our fans don't carry themselves well. That is why we get so much bad press and all tagged with the same brush.

Perhaps its just an educational matter then DB? (How the devil are you anyway)

Its a great point, ALL clubs have hooligans, in all honesty, all towns and cities have them too. It should be realised that it is these people, NOT (as you say) the belief system or the songs that are the problem. Once that is realised, you tend to find that most of these guys have banning orders.

[bluepeter 5,627]

And as for Ritchieshearercaldow. What has the pope to do with our club at all.??

I go back to our beginnings. We weren't established as a protestant club.

The Pope has nothing to do with Rangers Football Club, but the club stood for everthing anti Rome and Pro Queen and country, something the Catholics didn't, their allegance was to their Pope first then their Monarch, the inhabitants of the city saw it being swamped with Irish catholics, when the Irish priest set up his club for Irish immigrants, the reaction from the Protestant majority was to take Rangers on as their club, it wasn't a hate thing, it was a NO POPERY thing.

All clubs have Traditions and history, if we forget these we are nothing.

The old saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" should still hold true, it's just a pity that in this PC world, the handringers don't like the name calling.

If I can just jump in here and say that no sane person can advocate us forgetting our clubs histories and traditions. What I am saying is we can always be proud of where we came from and what we have stood for but remove the darker elements of our support and move forward into the 21st Century as a united, tolerant support who can be untouchable from our enemies.

We can use our traditions and history as a unifying force instead of a divisive tool which splits our support.

Please define that? What are these "darker elements" please?

I think he's being racist.

[MacWoodburn 2]

Going back to the OP, and following "discussions"

Especially in this day and age, EVERY person has the right to defend themselves, as do every organisation. The whole problem with the oh so nicely worded "moving forward" type phrases, is, that they are anything but. If, as those classed as handwringers say, the fans holding on to the religious and political views (that as people they will more than likely ALWAYS have held) are in the minority (which they arent), then, surely, as tolerant, all inclusive types, the "handwringers" should be the first ones to speak up and defend them, and their rights? Defending "their own", the small few who are being (for want of a better word) bullied! Victimised by the masses due to their religion and beliefs, as well as the club they support. They defend the rights of most other religions, bringing it up in "debate"

They dont though do they? No, they get on internet forums with spurious claims that they are "doing the club harm" and the like, So, THEIR ethos as the claim, is in fact a lie, and hypocrisy abounds!

On the part about the songs, as I made mention of earlier, which was conveniently overlooked.... since the big bad Protestants are doing all this harm...

Where? When?

The last, and, pretty much only instance of any sort of "punishment", was the one time, and, how many years ago was this? Where are all the punishments over the last couple of years then? Or, perhaps, just perhaps, the garbage about songs causing harm is just that? Seriously, since it is so bad and damaging, perhaps a catalogue of punishments received can be made? There are people so against them that it must be common knowledge? Put down some simple facts, a list of punishments that clearly show that the "harm" is being done, or, shut the hell up about songs causing harm, because, if you cant, then, they obviously arent!

See what some don't seem to realize it's not the religion that's the problem, it's certain individuals that's carry that tag to hide behind and fuel there own agenda's.

Now I don't think anybody would disagree, that some of our fans don't carry themselves well. That is why we get so much bad press and all tagged with the same brush.

Perhaps its just an educational matter then DB? (How the devil are you anyway)

Its a great point, ALL clubs have hooligans, in all honesty, all towns and cities have them too. It should be realised that it is these people, NOT (as you say) the belief system or the songs that are the problem. Once that is realised, you tend to find that most of these guys have banning orders.

Spot on mate. Good and bad everywhere and we're always gonna have our so called, ahem, "darker side" ! . If certain people on here can't deal with that , then feck off and go an spout your pish in the stands of Firhill or the likes of ! Becoming very tedious on here with the all the lhurkers .

Backbone loyal.

[Harry Callahan 9]

And as for Ritchieshearercaldow. What has the pope to do with our club at all.??

I go back to our beginnings. We weren't established as a protestant club.

The Pope has nothing to do with Rangers Football Club, but the club stood for everthing anti Rome and Pro Queen and country, something the Catholics didn't, their allegance was to their Pope first then their Monarch, the inhabitants of the city saw it being swamped with Irish catholics, when the Irish priest set up his club for Irish immigrants, the reaction from the Protestant majority was to take Rangers on as their club, it wasn't a hate thing, it was a NO POPERY thing.

All clubs have Traditions and history, if we forget these we are nothing.

The old saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" should still hold true, it's just a pity that in this PC world, the handringers don't like the name calling.

If I can just jump in here and say that no sane person can advocate us forgetting our clubs histories and traditions. What I am saying is we can always be proud of where we came from and what we have stood for but remove the darker elements of our support and move forward into the 21st Century as a united, tolerant support who can be untouchable from our enemies.

We can use our traditions and history as a unifying force instead of a divisive tool which splits our support.

That's an ideal concept, but in any faction or group you'll find extreemists or darker elemets, it' part and parcel of any religion,political party or football club, we have just got to put up with it or become zombies with no views or differing opinions. Timmy believes one thing, we believe another, what's wrong with the rivalry? it's when it turns to violence that it's unacceptable, singing a song may cause offence to some but it never caused bodily harm, as I said "Sticks and Stones"

Nothing wrong with rivalry - Though it's a bit naive to suggest that songs dont cause harm, they contribute to an atmosphere which drives people to go onto the streets after games and cause carnage.

This is one of the many side effects that arrive after years of brainwashing beleiving what you read and hear in the Schottish media.

Songs don't cause carnage, people cause carnage.

I have sang almost every song in the 'fan' book at our games against that lot, I have never been involved in carnage in the streets afterwards. That kinda blows that fucked up theory out of the water.

So what's your next bit of mhedia introduced theory you want us to rip up?

[disgruntled_bear 157]

Going back to the OP, and following "discussions"

Especially in this day and age, EVERY person has the right to defend themselves, as do every organisation. The whole problem with the oh so nicely worded "moving forward" type phrases, is, that they are anything but. If, as those classed as handwringers say, the fans holding on to the religious and political views (that as people they will more than likely ALWAYS have held) are in the minority (which they arent), then, surely, as tolerant, all inclusive types, the "handwringers" should be the first ones to speak up and defend them, and their rights? Defending "their own", the small few who are being (for want of a better word) bullied! Victimised by the masses due to their religion and beliefs, as well as the club they support. They defend the rights of most other religions, bringing it up in "debate"

They dont though do they? No, they get on internet forums with spurious claims that they are "doing the club harm" and the like, So, THEIR ethos as the claim, is in fact a lie, and hypocrisy abounds!

On the part about the songs, as I made mention of earlier, which was conveniently overlooked.... since the big bad Protestants are doing all this harm...

Where? When?

The last, and, pretty much only instance of any sort of "punishment", was the one time, and, how many years ago was this? Where are all the punishments over the last couple of years then? Or, perhaps, just perhaps, the garbage about songs causing harm is just that? Seriously, since it is so bad and damaging, perhaps a catalogue of punishments received can be made? There are people so against them that it must be common knowledge? Put down some simple facts, a list of punishments that clearly show that the "harm" is being done, or, shut the hell up about songs causing harm, because, if you cant, then, they obviously arent!

See what some don't seem to realize it's not the religion that's the problem, it's certain individuals that's carry that tag to hide behind and fuel there own agenda's.

Now I don't think anybody would disagree, that some of our fans don't carry themselves well. That is why we get so much bad press and all tagged with the same brush.

Perhaps its just an educational matter then DB? (How the devil are you anyway)

Its a great point, ALL clubs have hooligans, in all honesty, all towns and cities have them too. It should be realised that it is these people, NOT (as you say) the belief system or the songs that are the problem. Once that is realised, you tend to find that most of these guys have banning orders.

Yeah I'm alright Outlaw

Education is a major part, and it's something the club has tried in vain to bring to the table.

Only problem is in the west of Scotland it's rife at the moment and it's only going to get worse, IMO it's due to the younger generation being bored and the lack of jobs. But that's for another debate...

To use religion on both sides as a convenient excuse to score points. All clubs do have hooligans, but in a Oldfirm case, the religious aspect magnifies it by 100 and the more tag along for the ride and feel the need to prove thereself. That aspect doesn't belong to be associated with our club.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Ok, during this thread I have been called, on various occasions, a tim, an I.R.A Sympathiser, a cunt and D'Artagnan said I disgusted him all for daring to offer a differing opinion.

If you so-called guardians and defenders of this clubs histories and traditions cannot debate rationally with one of your own then I fear for this club, I really do. I have shown restraint and tried to debate without resorting to childish name-calling but it seems to be beyond some members to extend to me the same courtesy.

There seems to be a very real and very worrying split in our support. One side clinging to a fading culture they cannot properly define and one side who wants to move away from it. Both sides have the clubs best interests at heart but disagree about how we see Rangers Football Club in the 21st Century.

If we can get rid of our darker element, cut out the stuff that has no place at a football ground and unite as a support then maybe we can move forward and attain the parity that D'Artagnan spoke of in his original post. But it is going to take a comprimise, on both sides.

It is crystal clear that our great club has more than enough enemies without our support splitting into factions. I may get the usual abuse for this post but I urge people to remember that I am one of us and to extend me the respect that a supporter of Rangers deserves.

We Are The People

Lets clear this up once and for all TWB.

The reason for my disgust is not that you offered a differtent opinion to mine - it was your utter insensitivity to the situation of others, and as you have seemed to do throughout this thread, only see negativity, and to assume the worst with regard to the Rangers support.

Firstly I cannot say categorically there are no Rangers fans who sing Daddys Uniform, No.1 Platoon and Fathers Advice, from a paramilitary perspective.

What I can say categorically is there are Rangers fans who sing these songs without the alteration of any of the original words, and would take great exception to any inference that these songs were in support of any paramiltary organisation. I say categorically because I know these Bears personally and a great many of them are from Ulster, and quite rightly take great pride in what there forefathers achieved and how they shaped the nation.

I noticed you also stated "the war is over". Now I dont know if you meant the 1st or 2nd world War or the troubles in Ulster. Nonetheless I suggest you have an honest and frank discussion wtih Protestants from across the water and find out if their war really is over. Gerry Adams said he would not rest until every trace of British Imeprialism was removed from Northern Ireland. The bullet and the bomb may be gone but the war is not over, it is just being fought in a different way. One where the very culture and identity of the Protestant people of Ulster is being threatened. Small wonder then that such songs of defiance and rememberance are still so prominent.

Sometimes you have to walk about in somebody elses shoes, to truly see where they are coming from.