Nationalist Rangers Fans

[eastlothianbear 28]

So what does 'self determination' mean?

the power or ability to make a decision for oneself without influence from outside

2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the right of a nation or people to determine its own form of government without influence from outside.

[eastlothianbear 28]

Question for both nationalists and unionists: is Scotland's continued presence in the UK more important than its long term economic growth?

I reckon that Scotland could thrive both as an independent nation, but it could also thrive as part of the UK. Having said that, I believe that too many people get caught up discussing independence when there are far more pressing issues to be worried about. How are we going to get people drinking less? How do we get hospital waiting times down? How do we improve the most deprived areas of the country? All these things are far more important to our short and long term future than whether we're independent or not.

Just give me a well governed Scotland, and I'll be happy.

Good post.

Regardless of whether Scotland governs itself of goes cap in hand to London there will always be problems with the issues you raise.

However, what is certain is that having economic teeth and fiscal controls are neccessary implement ideas.

In the areas you raise you need to consider whether you feel the unionist parties have serves Scotland well or whether the ideas of the SNP have provided greater returns.

How are they going to get people drinking less?

Unionist parties- educate, educate,educate.

SNP- respond to calls from heathcare professionals and implement a minimum pricing on alcohol, a levy on supermarkets, with a sweetner for the publican with plans to reduce rates north of the border.

How do we get hospital waiting times down?

Labour- Obsessed with this to the detrement of the hospitals. Doctors forces to prioritise lists over patients needs. Disenfranchised staff. Buy everything on PFI, short term gain long term pain.

SNP- Back to basics. LEt doctors do their job without bureaucratic influence. Free prescriptions, scrap car parking fee's at non PFI hospitals.

How do we improve the most deprived areas of the country?

Unionist parties- been in charge for years and created these schemes often called the worst in Europe.

SNP- Building 1000 new council houses(labour built 6 in their last term) 35,000 new aprentiships. Xtra 1050 police on the street, with special task groups that has taken crime to a 30 year low.

Now if Scotland was served well by the union, gave us a place full of opportunity, where the standard of living with proportional to our endeavour then I would have no problems supporting it. All I see is Scotland not receiving back what it provides, and being governed from Westminister by a shower that have no identity with the common man/woman(see liam fox today for example).

I would like to decide whether to spend billions of pounds of Scots taxpayers money on wars the other side of the world. Whether to have nuclear weapons on the clyde........Or to spend this money on tax breaks for all, local community projects, youth facilities, sports facilities, improved rail networks.

To me its a very easy choice of Self-determination.

[Edmiston Drive 3,846]

Good post.

Regardless of whether Scotland governs itself of goes cap in hand to London there will always be problems with the issues you raise.

However, what is certain is that having economic teeth and fiscal controls are neccessary implement ideas.

In the areas you raise you need to consider whether you feel the unionist parties have serves Scotland well or whether the ideas of the SNP have provided greater returns.

How are they going to get people drinking less?

Unionist parties- educate, educate,educate.

SNP- respond to calls from heathcare professionals and implement a minimum pricing on alcohol, a levy on supermarkets, with a sweetner for the publican with plans to reduce rates north of the border.

How do we get hospital waiting times down?

Labour- Obsessed with this to the detrement of the hospitals. Doctors forces to prioritise lists over patients needs. Disenfranchised staff. Buy everything on PFI, short term gain long term pain.

SNP- Back to basics. LEt doctors do their job without bureaucratic influence. Free prescriptions, scrap car parking fee's at non PFI hospitals.

How do we improve the most deprived areas of the country?

Unionist parties- been in charge for years and created these schemes often called the worst in Europe.

SNP- Building 1000 new council houses(labour built 6 in their last term) 35,000 new aprentiships. Xtra 1050 police on the street, with special task groups that has taken crime to a 30 year low.

Now if Scotland was served well by the union, gave us a place full of opportunity, where the standard of living with proportional to our endeavour then I would have no problems supporting it. All I see is Scotland not receiving back what it provides, and being governed from Westminister by a shower that have no identity with the common man/woman(see liam fox today for example).

I would like to decide whether to spend billions of pounds of Scots taxpayers money on wars the other side of the world. Whether to have nuclear weapons on the clyde........Or to spend this money on tax breaks for all, local community projects, youth facilities, sports facilities, improved rail networks.

To me its a very easy choice of Self-determination.

We will chase you rebels into the North Sea if we have to.

[eastlothianbear 28]

We will chase you rebels into the North Sea if we have to.

Not such a good post.

I was hoping you would pick up the very fair question put forward by the previous poster. Instead it's more deflection rather that ACTUALLY providing a sensible case to keep the union.

Answers like coz sammon a fat cunt and sandy thom shite don't are not really the type of argument that would convince me.

[Edmiston Drive 3,846]

Not such a good post.

I was hoping you would pick up the very fair question put forward by the previous poster. Instead it's more deflection rather that ACTUALLY providing a sensible case to keep the union.

Answers like coz sammon a fat cunt and sandy thom shite don't are not really the type of argument that would convince me.

never used the word cunt as a cunt is a useful thing, keech is the word I used and why the sandy thom thing shite, it's a fact.

Still waiting fro all the facts and figures from you. I thought it was an excellent post re you lot being rebels. Bring back the 4th verse i say.

[Loyalist_RFC 222]

Not such a good post.

I was hoping you would pick up the very fair question put forward by the previous poster. Instead it's more deflection rather that ACTUALLY providing a sensible case to keep the union.

Answers like coz sammon a fat cunt and sandy thom shite don't are not really the type of argument that would convince me.

You should be ashamed of yourselves take a look around yous at Ibrox and look at that Union Flag flying and ask yourself what your Grandad or Great Grandad would be thinking of you.

Shame on yous.

Rangers is British and so is Scotland and it will never change.

Rule Britannia

[Loyalist_RFC 222]

Good post.

Regardless of whether Scotland governs itself of goes cap in hand to London there will always be problems with the issues you raise.

However, what is certain is that having economic teeth and fiscal controls are neccessary implement ideas.

In the areas you raise you need to consider whether you feel the unionist parties have serves Scotland well or whether the ideas of the SNP have provided greater returns.

How are they going to get people drinking less?

Unionist parties- educate, educate,educate.

SNP- respond to calls from heathcare professionals and implement a minimum pricing on alcohol, a levy on supermarkets, with a sweetner for the publican with plans to reduce rates north of the border.

How do we get hospital waiting times down?

Labour- Obsessed with this to the detrement of the hospitals. Doctors forces to prioritise lists over patients needs. Disenfranchised staff. Buy everything on PFI, short term gain long term pain.

SNP- Back to basics. LEt doctors do their job without bureaucratic influence. Free prescriptions, scrap car parking fee's at non PFI hospitals.

How do we improve the most deprived areas of the country?

Unionist parties- been in charge for years and created these schemes often called the worst in Europe.

SNP- Building 1000 new council houses(labour built 6 in their last term) 35,000 new aprentiships. Xtra 1050 police on the street, with special task groups that has taken crime to a 30 year low.

Now if Scotland was served well by the union, gave us a place full of opportunity, where the standard of living with proportional to our endeavour then I would have no problems supporting it. All I see is Scotland not receiving back what it provides, and being governed from Westminister by a shower that have no identity with the common man/woman(see liam fox today for example).

I would like to decide whether to spend billions of pounds of Scots taxpayers money on wars the other side of the world. Whether to have nuclear weapons on the clyde........Or to spend this money on tax breaks for all, local community projects, youth facilities, sports facilities, improved rail networks.

To me its a very easy choice of Self-determination.

One or two little things that need to be explained there also FACTS and wheres the Moneys coming from??????????

You sound like you just rhymmed of Adolf Pinkys speech

If we all listened to politcians we will be lost and thats a fact, they only tell you what you want to hear.

[eastlothianbear 28]

You should be ashamed of yourselves take a look around yous at Ibrox and look at that Union Flag flying and ask yourself what your Grandad or Great Grandad would be thinking of you.

Shame on yous.

Rangers is British and so is Scotland and it will never change.

Rule Britannia

lols

[Loyalist_RFC 222]

lols

No respect for nothing or anyone i see.

Wise up and grow out of it and respect your true forefathers lifes.

[eastlothianbear 28]

No respect for nothing or anyone i see.

Wise up and grow out of it and respect your true forefathers lifes.

lols are you like 6?

[Loyalist_RFC 222]

lols are you like 6?

That just proves am more grown up than you,

because theres one thing in life that you learn and thats repect the people that have came before you

you wouldnt be here otherwise.

Respect.

Rule Britannia

[Edmiston Drive 3,846]

For drinking, I disagree with the SNP. It's proven that alcholism touches all sectors of society, rich and poor included. Making it more expensive to buy alcohol just penalises the poorer drinkers. What's needed is long term cultural change to make drinking seem less attractive to all sectors of society, and you can only do that through education (albeit the right kind).

The other two though, I'm in agreement with.

Also, to answer some a question by some other poster, an independent Scottish government would make money the same way any other government does- taxation.

Re taxation you telling me they will gwet more tax revenue based soley on the working population based here than their cut from the whole of the working population in the UK ...I do not think so As for corp tax the big compnaies will ride the arse off salmong and the rest of the bash street kids as the little keech has said they would cut copr tax.

So less tax coming in, a state pension to be funded and NHS scheme to be set up hmmm wonder how long all these freebies would last that they shout about. Unemployment, when all the Westminster MOD jobs disappear, Clyde finaly loses shipbuilding. Police Force mmless tax coming in to cover for their upkeep.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

the power or ability to make a decision for oneself without influence from outside

2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the right of a nation or people to determine its own form of government without influence from outside.

So both the UK and Scotland have self determination.

I knew we'd get there.

Although it's touchingly naive to think such things are not subject to outside influence.

[Edmiston Drive 3,846]

Are you saying that more companies comming to set up in Scotland would be a bad thing?

Of course not , but they would not have the money to attract them, countries like roi plundered EU for money to lure the companies. That is a thing of the past now. Plus large companies would dictate the tax incentives for them to be here

Also you still have the problem of all the MOD jobs that will go all the HNRC jobs that will go, bye bye Clyde Shibuilding and all those offshoot companies.

Plus have to find money fro a state pension scheme, NHS and funding public services

Have to look at this side of the coin also.

Plus have the snp not mentioned that they would join the euro. more problems there,, like we want independence , but hey, let's allow europe to tell us what to do.

From my own point of vuw, I believe the wee fat keech9have always called him this, obnoxious man is more looking out for him going down as the man the fucked up the Union than being independent as such.

[John Alistair 1]

Good post.

Regardless of whether Scotland governs itself of goes cap in hand to London there will always be problems with the issues you raise.

However, what is certain is that having economic teeth and fiscal controls are neccessary implement ideas.

In the areas you raise you need to consider whether you feel the unionist parties have serves Scotland well or whether the ideas of the SNP have provided greater returns.

How are they going to get people drinking less?

Unionist parties- educate, educate,educate.

SNP- respond to calls from heathcare professionals and implement a minimum pricing on alcohol, a levy on supermarkets, with a sweetner for the publican with plans to reduce rates north of the border.

How do we get hospital waiting times down?

Labour- Obsessed with this to the detrement of the hospitals. Doctors forces to prioritise lists over patients needs. Disenfranchised staff. Buy everything on PFI, short term gain long term pain.

SNP- Back to basics. LEt doctors do their job without bureaucratic influence. Free prescriptions, scrap car parking fee's at non PFI hospitals.

How do we improve the most deprived areas of the country?

Unionist parties- been in charge for years and created these schemes often called the worst in Europe.

SNP- Building 1000 new council houses(labour built 6 in their last term) 35,000 new aprentiships. Xtra 1050 police on the street, with special task groups that has taken crime to a 30 year low.

Now if Scotland was served well by the union, gave us a place full of opportunity, where the standard of living with proportional to our endeavour then I would have no problems supporting it. All I see is Scotland not receiving back what it provides, and being governed from Westminister by a shower that have no identity with the common man/woman(see liam fox today for example).

I would like to decide whether to spend billions of pounds of Scots taxpayers money on wars the other side of the world. Whether to have nuclear weapons on the clyde........Or to spend this money on tax breaks for all, local community projects, youth facilities, sports facilities, improved rail networks.

To me its a very easy choice of Self-determination.

Business Rates have just gone up in Glasgow (I can't speak for the rest of Scotland) and the SNP may have plans to help pubs out by cutting rates, but they haven't done it yet. What they have done is introduce minimum pricing and the "Tesco Tax" which are both anti-business policies.

Free Prescriptions and free Resedential Care for the Elderly are funded by taxpayers from across the UK (as are subsidised Tuition fees for students). Example, an 80 year old man sells his house in Essex to pay for his resedential care. Only 80% of the sale money goes on his care, the other 20% is redistributed into the overall tax levels. I worked for London Councils for a while last year researching peoples opinions on this subject and many English people I spoke to did not like the idea of subsidising Scots. Though all wish that England would follow our example and introduce it nationally.

35'000 MODERN apprenticeships. These include "stock replenishment level 1". I have about 20 of these from my time working in an off-licence. Not the same as genuine skills-based, trade-oriented apprenticeships, which is what we desperately need, especially in Construction.

"Proportional to our endeavour" and "receiving back what it provides". Scotland has 5% of the UK's working population, yet receives 8% of the benefits money. The 4 countries of the UK are in it together, thus we redistribute the money to where its required. Were Scotland to break away from the UK, I'm not sure how we'd fund everything without insane tax hikes. And please don't mention oil revenues or the EU, as both are a complete lie.

I cannot argue with someone's beliefs that Scotland should be independent, that's a political choice that I have no right to attack. However, I will happily attack SNP lies or wishful thinking.

Now, back to football!

[bluepeter 5,627]

If you struggle with your reading skills then work on them.

You said, and I quote:

"It did.

To answer this different question.

David Cameron has said he would fight for the union with every fibre in his body, but he would recognise the settled will on the Scottish people."

If you're happy with that, I suggest it's you who needs to work on English skills.

The reason why Cameron wouldn't campaign against dissolution was highlighed earlier. He has already made it clear he WOULDN'T stand in the way of the will of the Scottish people. IF the yes vote wins Cameron will let proceedings commence.

He said he would fight for the Union, but recognise the will "on" the Scottish people, according to you. Recognising someone's will and doing what they want are entirely different, maybe the English lessons will help with your reading skills.

Now, I have given my views on the oil settlement based on the IMB. What makes you think the UK government could possibly have a case at a court of law?

Depends, what case are they trying to make? Do you believe "Scotland" are going to take "The United Kingdom" to court to become independent and claim the oil money?

[Edmiston Drive 3,846]

It all depends on how they would go about it IMO. Personally, I want to see more help being given to the smaller existing Scottish businesses anyway- I want to see them grow.

As for the MOD jobs, I heard a concept being talked about called 'Independence Light'. Basically, it's independence, but we still keep with the British Army. This would save the jobs you were talking about. Other public sector jobs would surely remain as is, no?

In Denmark, the highest earners pay around 70% income tax. Sounds shocking, but it's given the Danish government a lot of money to help build a really nice place. The roads are pothole free, there's no hour long wait in the A&E queue, and things generally function quite well. Why not take advice from these guys, and copy some of their tricks?

The euro? I'm against it, mainly because the ECB sets interest rates for the entire Eurozone. If we were too become independent, I'd be in favour of a 'Scottish pound'. Heck, we even have our own banknotes already....

Rest of the UK will not go along with cherry picking what snp want to keep and what they don't want to keep. When that farce in Edinburgh was set up a lot of people did not realise that they had been given the right to have right to increase basic rate by 3p in the £.

Even Mcswinney let the bloody thing lapse as they forgot about it.

So as is a fave on here , look at Greegs as eg someone in Glasgow working for them could have paid more in the £ than someone in Newcastle.

I actually know that a number fo companies would have made moves to set up HQ down south .

70% is alien to what salmond view is in reducing corp tax to a roi level so the people behind those companies will not stand for ridiculous rate of 70%, although In my time have seen Highest Tax Rate of 98% , but that have numerous tax bands and had huge pension benefits re investment.

So it's either 100% independence for the Jacobites or nothing, no right to pick and choose that they will have this and don't want that.

And when and by how mush are we going to suffer when they start to apply increases to council taxes. That is going to be huge.

[nachothelegend 1,932]

Business Rates have just gone up in Glasgow (I can't speak for the rest of Scotland) and the SNP may have plans to help pubs out by cutting rates, but they haven't done it yet. What they have done is introduce minimum pricing and the "Tesco Tax" which are both anti-business policies.

Free Prescriptions and free Resedential Care for the Elderly are funded by taxpayers from across the UK (as are subsidised Tuition fees for students). Example, an 80 year old man sells his house in Essex to pay for his resedential care. Only 80% of the sale money goes on his care, the other 20% is redistributed into the overall tax levels. I worked for London Councils for a while last year researching peoples opinions on this subject and many English people I spoke to did not like the idea of subsidising Scots. Though all wish that England would follow our example and introduce it nationally.

35'000 MODERN apprenticeships. These include "stock replenishment level 1". I have about 20 of these from my time working in an off-licence. Not the same as genuine skills-based, trade-oriented apprenticeships, which is what we desperately need, especially in Construction.

"Proportional to our endeavour" and "receiving back what it provides". Scotland has 5% of the UK's working population, yet receives 8% of the benefits money. The 4 countries of the UK are in it together, thus we redistribute the money to where its required. Were Scotland to break away from the UK, I'm not sure how we'd fund everything without insane tax hikes. And please don't mention oil revenues or the EU, as both are a complete lie.

I cannot argue with someone's beliefs that Scotland should be independent, that's a political choice that I have no right to attack. However, I will happily attack SNP lies or wishful thinking.

Now, back to football!

The SNP dream is Light Years away from reality, and this just about sums up their Pie in the Sky Brigadoon Fairy tail. A bunch of Upper Class Pompous Git's clamouring for Self serving Power Good Post .

[gsa 3,906]

No credible person with a grasp of economic reality could support the SNP. They are small minded, smug ,anti English, anti British bigots.

When will "Eck" get that repulsive smug grin of his bloated, fat face and realise he has made a cunt of every major issue in his time as first minister.

Alex Salmond and his party embarrass Scotland.

[nachothelegend 1,932]

No credible person with a grasp of economic reality could support the SNP. They are small minded, smug ,anti English, anti British bigots.

When will "Eck" get that repulsive smug grin of his bloated, fat face and realise he has made a cunt of every major issue in his time as first minister.

Alex Salmond and his party embarrass Scotland.

You forgot parochial mate.

Parochialism means being provincial, being narrow in scope, or considering only small sections of an issue. It may, particularly when used pejoratively, be contrasted to universalism.

[StublueKPL 524]

Snp fans. One quick message:

You want independence. Fair enough, not my view at all but i respect that.

Your party, however, is for taking us further into the euro madness.

Now you claim you want independece from london, to be ruled by who? Brussels? Paris?

Ive got more respect for someone who wants to go it totally alone (again, not my view but makes more sense than the jacobite nonsense your party spout)

[John Alistair 1]

The SNP dream is Light Years away from reality, and this just about sums up their Pie in the Sky Brigadoon Fairy tail. A bunch of Upper Class Pompous Git's clamouring for Self serving Power Good Post .

Cheers. At the scottish election the SNP's main campaign pledges were "We won't take away the free bus pass for over 65s" (no one suggested they would) and "We got rid of bridge tolls".

Seriously? effing bridge tolls? Kinda says it all, really!

[eastlothianbear 28]

Business Rates have just gone up in Glasgow (I can't speak for the rest of Scotland) and the SNP may have plans to help pubs out by cutting rates, but they haven't done it yet. What they have done is introduce minimum pricing and the "Tesco Tax" which are both anti-business policies.

Free Prescriptions and free Resedential Care for the Elderly are funded by taxpayers from across the UK (as are subsidised Tuition fees for students). Example, an 80 year old man sells his house in Essex to pay for his resedential care. Only 80% of the sale money goes on his care, the other 20% is redistributed into the overall tax levels. I worked for London Councils for a while last year researching peoples opinions on this subject and many English people I spoke to did not like the idea of subsidising Scots. Though all wish that England would follow our example and introduce it nationally.

35'000 MODERN apprenticeships. These include "stock replenishment level 1". I have about 20 of these from my time working in an off-licence. Not the same as genuine skills-based, trade-oriented apprenticeships, which is what we desperately need, especially in Construction.

"Proportional to our endeavour" and "receiving back what it provides". Scotland has 5% of the UK's working population, yet receives 8% of the benefits money. The 4 countries of the UK are in it together, thus we redistribute the money to where its required. Were Scotland to break away from the UK, I'm not sure how we'd fund everything without insane tax hikes. And please don't mention oil revenues or the EU, as both are a complete lie. I cannot argue with someone's beliefs that Scotland should be independent, that's a political choice that I have no right to attack. However, I will happily attack SNP lies or wishful thinking.

Now, back to football!

Sorry but there are holes in this.

RE Health: Health is a devolved matter, Scotland gets its block grant and decided where to spend it. We can spend it on free prescriptions, new equipment, shiney curtains whatever the hell we want! It's utter bolloxs to suggest is further subsidised by the UK government.

The bolded bit is sheer scarmongering lies. However, I suspect you don't a word of it. Scotland runs in surplus as the UK government freely admit.

Scottish employment currently stands at 2.4million, and there is 29 million workers in the UK. (oops you made up the figure of 5%)

http://www.hrmguide.co.uk/jobmarket/unemployment.htm

Interest in your assertion that the oil and the eu are a lie? Perhaps you know something leading economists don't.

[eastlothianbear 28]

No credible person with a grasp of economic reality could support the SNP. They are small minded, smug ,anti English, anti British bigots.

When will "Eck" get that repulsive smug grin of his bloated, fat face and realise he has made a cunt of every major issue in his time as first minister.

Alex Salmond and his party embarrass Scotland.

I would like you to attempt to name all these issues that have made him a laughing stock.......

[nachothelegend 1,932]

Of course not , but they would not have the money to attract them, countries like roi plundered EU for money to lure the companies. That is a thing of the past now. Plus large companies would dictate the tax incentives for them to be here

Also you still have the problem of all the MOD jobs that will go all the HNRC jobs that will go, bye bye Clyde Shibuilding and all those offshoot companies.

Plus have to find money fro a state pension scheme, NHS and funding public services

Have to look at this side of the coin also.

Plus have the snp not mentioned that they would join the euro. more problems there,, like we want independence , but hey, let's allow europe to tell us what to do.

From my own point of vuw, I believe the wee fat keech9have always called him this, obnoxious man is more looking out for him going down as the man the fucked up the Union than being independent as such.

And all of us who will have an MOD Pension will lose loads when its changed to the Euro ,which is what SNP want even if it stays the Pound, the Bank of England will set the Rate of Currency for the Scottish Pound, and it will be less so we will still lose ,and not to mention people with a State Pension. They will lose both ways also.

So its Lose Lose Lose all the way ,and then the Tax hikes to pay for the Bridge ,Trams ,Free Prescriptions and Bus Passes. Tax, Tax, Tax .