dan_ger 1,454 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 For me a lot of the blame for this lies at the door of HMRC. We need to remember they have been ruthless in their pursuit of our club when they haven't been in the case of others! As far as I can tell when this type of system was set up it was perfectly legal and they are now going back and claiming that we should pay for something acceptable at the time!They have effectively told us that they are not going to let it go and will suffocate the club even if we win the tax case! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I was convinced we would win the tax-case. Very down about all this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirrhillLoyal 318 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Fuck HMRC and fuck SDM Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_boca 31 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Aw fuck off. How is it HMRC's fault. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulboy 2,520 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 For me a lot of the blame for this lies at the door of HMRC. We need to remember they have been ruthless in their pursuit of our club when they haven't been in the case of others! As far as I can tell when this type of system was set up it was perfectly legal and they are now going back and claiming that we should pay for something acceptable at the time!They have effectively told us that they are not going to let it go and will suffocate the club even if we win the tax case!From what has been said on here before yes they were legal but we were not using them properly ie ebts were effectively a 'loan' but for it to be deemed a 'loan' the recipient had to turn down the 'loan' at least once a year or it was deemed salary, the recipients were not turning the 'loans' down. The reason ebts were used to pay players was that a 'loan' doesn't have to be repayed Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_ger 1,454 Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 SDM must take blame for the mismanagement of the club. But would we really be in a unmanageable position if the club only had the debt that he had built up in the last few years?Surely it is the debt to HMRC that has put us in this position. Up until now they have went easy on other companies. Some of them massive companies! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.T.G 10,773 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 What things will we know about the case once the decision has been made? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_ger 1,454 Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 From what has been said on here before yes they were legal but we were not using them properly ie ebts were effectively a 'loan' but for it to be deemed a 'loan' the recipient had to turn down the 'loan' at least once a year or it was deemed salary, the recipients were not turning the 'loans' down. The reason ebts were used to pay players was that a 'loan' doesn't have to be repayedNever heard that before, thanks. Again it seems like Rangers are not the only company to fall foul of this though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1mgg 3,766 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 If what has been implied that hmrc will chase us to high heaven till they run out of courts then that will take years and we will yo further done the pan to where there is a point of no return, so in this way it is kind of their fault. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,287 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I have to say no wonder the British state has so many problems these days when it treats one of the best friends they will ever have like this. As the OP states we have been singled out where others have been waved away Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 HMRC are what they are, it was up to Murray to keep us from having any problems with them and he failed badly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_ger 1,454 Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 HMRC are what they are, it was up to Murray to keep us from having any problems with them and he failed badly.They are what they are but they are expected to act with some consistency across the board. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WATP since 1873 109 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The tax authorieties are bang out of order the way they're hounding our club. I don't believe for one minute that we were the only club that used the LEGAL ebt system but why is that we're the ones they are trying to destroy?Hopefully they'll get hee haw out of us and we'll be back to our strong best and dominating Scottish football again soon.WATP. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,287 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 They are what they are but they are expected to act with some consistency across the board.Exactly we have been singled out because we don't have the deep pockets of a vodaphone to fight them. The British state will need as many friends as it can get up here with salmond turning heads and them reducing the symbol of Scottish unionism to a broken shell may have repercussions that go far beyond money Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanbrox 10 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Fuck, the taig troll is on this thread as well.Would Admin. kindly remove this fucker! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_ger 1,454 Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Fuck, the taig troll is on this thread as well.Would Admin. kindly remove this fucker!Just ignore him for now. Admin will be very busy this evening. He will be gone in due course I am sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachothelegend 1,932 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The tax authorieties are bang out of order the way they're hounding our club. I don't believe for one minute that we were the only club that used the LEGAL ebt system but why is that we're the ones they are trying to destroy?Hopefully they'll get hee haw out of us and we'll be back to our strong best and dominating Scottish European football again soon.WATP.Fixed that for you MateThey are being Rats,and the manner in which they have pursued us is Frightening and if they get Nothing then Good IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jela 20,583 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Aw fuck off. How is it HMRC's fault.You fuck off ya stinking, feni@n bastard. :wanker: Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weird_Beard 99 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I was convinced we would win the tax-case. Very down about all this.That fact that CW has been negotiating with them all week pretty much tells us the outcome. Bad vibes man. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4MenHadADream 122 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Its not HMRC's fault. If we ran the EBT's correctly then we would not be liable to pay anything. Any penalty will be based on the fact we didn't administer them properly. It is Murray/Bain's fault. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan_Smith 1 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I was convinced we would win the tax-case. Very down about all this.I think this may be part of the problem. Whyte has already said he wants to draw a line in the sand once the verdict has been reached. If we win, they will appeal which will basically mean going around in circles again, if we win the appeal HMRC will appeal again and again.If we lose the case and get a lowish bill (£5 - 10 Mill) then it gets paid, admin doesnt happen and we win 4IAR but again , the saga is over.If we lose and get a massive bill then we are probably fucked.From what Whyte has been saying, HMRC have been near on impossible to negotiate with so threatening them with us potentially going into administration and getting little or nowhere near the cash they want might make them be more willing to come to a compromise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledge 3 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 We are Rangers, hated but rated. No way were we ever winning this case. No idea how anyone could think we would. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnberry18 3,204 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Its not HMRC's fault. If we ran the EBT's correctly then we would not be liable to pay anything. Any penalty will be based on the fact we didn't administer them properly. It is Murray/Bain's fault.Out of every tax case comment this is the best. There was no reason EBTs alone should have created this. This is all wrong; and will never make sense to me how we got into this state. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersMedia 35,961 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 HMRC are doing what they exist to do but we've been used as guinea pigs for this. If they don't go after other clubs then we will see their true intentions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crespie6 334 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Exactly we have been singled out because we don't have the deep pockets of a vodaphone to fight them. The British state will need as many friends as it can get up here with salmond turning heads and them reducing the symbol of Scottish unionism to a broken shell may have repercussions that go far beyond moneythere was also a case - highlighted in the Private Eye (November i think), which detailed how Goldman Sachs basically screwed the taxman out of 20 odd mill. this was after they were offered the chance to pay their fine and not face court proceedings. they basically said 'do one', waited 6 years, then paid the amount they should have paid in 2005. (so they made money on the interest so goes the article).this deal was something to do with director bonuses, and all the big companies at the time (except sachs) accepted this and paid up. so i do take a bit of umbridge to hmrc chasing us. but then again, maybe they are just saying that? hopefully they are just toothless Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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