The Young Team Myth

[Elfideldo 4,468]

First of all let me say that having watched the youth teams on a regular basis nobody enjoys seeing a youngster progress to the first team more than me.

A couple have done really well this season and the others have let nobody down and done okay.

The facts are we are in 3rd division and if we couldn't promote a few youngsters then we really would be in a bad way. There seems to be a perception that we have a very young team playing against lower league journeymen, if you actually look at the facts you will find this isn't the case.

Our starting lineup on Saturday had an average age of 24.9 with one teenager in Lewis McLeod, our opponents Montrose average was 23.2 and they included three 19 years olds, Ricky McIntosh (on loan from St.Johnstone), Leighton McIntosh and Martin Boyle (both on loan from Dundee). With most teams in this division having loan players teenagers in the opposition is not unusual, even Queen's Park started with a 17 and 18 year old in our recent meeting.

On Saturday Hearts reached the League Cup final with four 19 year olds in their starting line up, Fraser Mullen, Jamie Walker, Callum Tapping and Jason Holt, another 19 year old Kevin McHattie has been playing for their first team on a regular basis. An indication of where our young players are with Hearts can be seen in the last four youth league results.

5th Nov 2011 Hearts 4 Rangers 3

27th Aug 2011 Rangers 0 Hearts 2

22nd April 2011 Hearts 1 Rangers 0

1st April 2011 Rangers 1 Hearts 4

You have to go back to 14th February 2010 when goals from Kane Hemmings and Kmail Wiktorski gave Rangers a 2-0 in a youth cup tie.

There can be three reasons for this, Hearts had/have a better group of players, they were coached better or a combination of the two. Its probably a combination of the two with a bit of emphasis on the middle one.

[Allanger 625]

Good post and kills the young team myth.

You say you watch the youths.I really hoped that we would spend a considerable amount on our youth setup and would go down the road of bringing on our own players.

Do you see any positive changes in the youth coaching? Are there signs that we might start to see more youths breaking through next season?

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

Thanks,good post.

Yet people are happy just to win SFL3 and not think to the future?

It needs overhauled big time.

I blame our set up and coaches.

[WadeWilson 4,670]

I thought this thread was about the 'OT Crew.'

Free Devlin!

[scarkev 3,540]

First of all let me say that having watched the youth teams on a regular basis nobody enjoys seeing a youngster progress to the first team more than me.

A couple have done really well this season and the others have let nobody down and done okay.

The facts are we are in 3rd division and if we couldn't promote a few youngsters then we really would be in a bad way. There seems to be a perception that we have a very young team playing against lower league journeymen, if you actually look at the facts you will find this isn't the case.

Our starting lineup on Saturday had an average age of 24.9 with one teenager in Lewis McLeod, our opponents Montrose average was 23.2 and they included three 19 years olds, Ricky McIntosh (on loan from St.Johnstone), Leighton McIntosh and Martin Boyle (both on loan from Dundee). With most teams in this division having loan players teenagers in the opposition is not unusual, even Queen's Park started with a 17 and 18 year old in our recent meeting.

On Saturday Hearts reached the League Cup final with four 19 year olds in their starting line up, Fraser Mullen, Jamie Walker, Callum Tapping and Jason Holt, another 19 year old Kevin McHattie has been playing for their first team on a regular basis. An indication of where our young players are with Hearts can be seen in the last four youth league results.

5th Nov 2011 Hearts 4 Rangers 3

27th Aug 2011 Rangers 0 Hearts 2

22nd April 2011 Hearts 1 Rangers 0

1st April 2011 Rangers 1 Hearts 4

You have to go back to 14th February 2010 when goals from Kane Hemmings and Kmail Wiktorski gave Rangers a 2-0 in a youth cup tie.

There can be three reasons for this, Hearts had/have a better group of players, they were coached better or a combination of the two. Its probably a combination of the two with a bit of emphasis on the middle one.

Unfortunately this perception that we have a young team is created as a way to excuse our performances and lack of progress. Alot of people are unwilling to accept where we are and the problems we have.

I have heard from a variety of people how old fashioned our youth policy and training is. Now there are alot of mitigating factors but if I was in charge of rangers I would have used this opportunity to bring in a new youth and coaching set-up/philosophy.

This was our chance to put in the foundations for the future in a less competitive environment but we are missing it.

[simplythebest 11,453]

All part of scraping the bottom of the excuse barrel.

[BlueSuedeSambas 56,413]

Our team has more players who are inexperienced due to a lack of games rather than players who are inexperienced due to their age.

Guys like Perry, Hutton, Little, Naismith & Argyiou are into their 20's but probably still only have about 50 first team career appearances between them.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,899]

Our team has more players who are inexperienced due to a lack of games rather than players who are inexperienced due to their age.

Guys like Perry, Hutton, Little, Naismith & Argyiou are into their 20's but probably still only have about 50 first team career appearances between them.

It's not so much of a young team but a relatively inexperienced one. Again that's only my opinion

[BlueSuedeSambas 56,413]

It's not so much of a young team but a relatively inexperienced one. Again that's only my opinion

I agree with you.

Our team has a lot of players who have played very little top team football.

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

You know what will be said though,that we can't play more young kids because if the results don't go our way then we would be up in arms.

The truth is most of us would accept failure for a couple of seasons if the seeds were being planted for years down the line.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,899]

I agree with you.

Our team has a lot of players who have played very little top team football.

Some barely even made our bench in past seasons

[The Godfather 75,725]

You know what will be said though,that we can't play more young kids because if the results don't go our way then we would be up in arms.

The truth is most of us would accept failure for a couple of seasons if the seeds were being planted for years down the line.

Look at the dutch teams.

[simplythebest 11,453]

It's not so much of a young team but a relatively inexperienced one. Again that's only my opinion

I agree with you.

Our team has a lot of players who have played very little top team football.

Maybe but playing at this level shouldn't be difficult for them to deal with after being developed at top class facilities.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,899]

Maybe but playing at this level shouldn't be difficult for them to deal with after being developed at top class facilities.

It's a tough place to play IMO

[AlBear. 8,499]

Maybe but playing at this level shouldn't be difficult for them to deal with after being developed at top class facilities.

Nothing beats playing regular games though.

[simplythebest 11,453]

Nothing beats playing regular games though.

Which is why we usually send players on loan to this level.

Hell we've sent players on loan to divisions above us.

[AlBear. 8,499]

Which is why we usually send players on loan to this level.

Hell we've sent players on loan to divisions above us.

Yeah but looking the signings. Argyriou played 13 games in the last 2 years at AEK. That will have a negative affect on players. Faure couldn't break into the Lyon 1st team. As these players play more regularly they will improve their match sharpness. It's fair enough they have had top training facilities and coaching that's on offer but it means nothing without a regular run of challenging games to test yourself and force you to push your game on. And you could argue it will be harder to build up that sharpness against these weaker teams were there isn't a real challenge to raise their game to.

[simplythebest 11,453]

Yeah but looking the signings. Argyriou played 13 games in the last 2 years at AEK. That will have a negative affect on players. Faure couldn't break into the Lyon 1st team. As these players play more regularly they will improve their match sharpness. It's fair enough they have had top training facilities and coaching that's on offer but it means nothing without a regular run of challenging games to test yourself and force you to push your game on. And you could argue it will be harder to build up that sharpness against these weaker teams were there isn't a real challenge to raise their game to.

There's 40-50,000 fans to raise their game for.

[AlBear. 8,499]

There's 40-50,000 fans to raise their game for.

I said you could argue, I didn't say it's a good argument.

[Elfideldo 4,468]

Guys like Perry, Hutton, Little, Naismith & Argyiou are into their 20's but probably still only have about 50 first team career appearances between them.

I'll give you Kal Naismith he is 21 in two weeks and has made 24 senior appearances.

Lets look at the others

Anestis Argyriou is 25!!! 62 senior appearances and 7 U21 caps

Andy Little is 23 has 38 senior appearances 8 FULL caps and 6 U21 caps

Ross Perry 23 next week 39 senior appearances 16 U21 Caps

Kyle Hutton 22 next week 39 senior appearances, played in Champions League and 1 U21 cap

This might be inexperienced compared to some, but compared to SFL3 players !!! Come on.

[nelsonRFC82 305]

I'm not really sure a myth can be disproved on the basis of avg ages from 1 game?

Would consider at least 7 players who have been involved to varying degrees as young (Hegarty, Faure, Macleod, Mackay, Aird, Naismith, Crawford), on top of that Argyriou, Perry, Hutton & at a push Little are fairly inexperienced relative to their age. That, on top of the fairly unique circumstances we find ourselves in, will have an impact.

This does not excuse performances, but to discount it or worse completely ignore it and deny it as a factor is rather unrealistic.

[cushynumber 25,178]

That does not make for pleasant reading. Moving forward, in order to keep to CG's stated aim of no more that 30% of turnover going on wages, the club NEEDS good young talent coming through. Our big spending days are over - its not just an "nice to have".

According to this article, the level that we would assume our players to be at is not there.This should be a major issue within the club and a real focus in this area as like it or not we are going to have to depend on our youngsters in a way we never have before.

[elephants stoned 2,994]

Early days in our new youth scheme with Craig Mather as a big investor, what we have now is the remanents of Murrays youth investment and it was obviously pretty lacking, we may of spent big on Auchenhowie but i think we then sat back thinking that was it done and now we could pat ourselves on the back and wait for the next Messi to turn up. I hope Mr Mather has a much more hands on approach and we get some new youth coaches in to develop skill over brawn and footballing awareness is taught rather than picked up in the first team like some young players we have had recently, Wylde for example.

[Edmiston Drive 3,846]

First of all let me say that having watched the youth teams on a regular basis nobody enjoys seeing a youngster progress to the first team more than me.

A couple have done really well this season and the others have let nobody down and done okay.

The facts are we are in 3rd division and if we couldn't promote a few youngsters then we really would be in a bad way. There seems to be a perception that we have a very young team playing against lower league journeymen, if you actually look at the facts you will find this isn't the case.

Our starting lineup on Saturday had an average age of 24.9 with one teenager in Lewis McLeod, our opponents Montrose average was 23.2 and they included three 19 years olds, Ricky McIntosh (on loan from St.Johnstone), Leighton McIntosh and Martin Boyle (both on loan from Dundee). With most teams in this division having loan players teenagers in the opposition is not unusual, even Queen's Park started with a 17 and 18 year old in our recent meeting.

On Saturday Hearts reached the League Cup final with four 19 year olds in their starting line up, Fraser Mullen, Jamie Walker, Callum Tapping and Jason Holt, another 19 year old Kevin McHattie has been playing for their first team on a regular basis. An indication of where our young players are with Hearts can be seen in the last four youth league results.

5th Nov 2011 Hearts 4 Rangers 3

27th Aug 2011 Rangers 0 Hearts 2

22nd April 2011 Hearts 1 Rangers 0

1st April 2011 Rangers 1 Hearts 4

You have to go back to 14th February 2010 when goals from Kane Hemmings and Kmail Wiktorski gave Rangers a 2-0 in a youth cup tie.

There can be three reasons for this, Hearts had/have a better group of players, they were coached better or a combination of the two. Its probably a combination of the two with a bit of emphasis on the middle one.

Agree with the above and would add those youngsters are getting regular game-time with hearts now as the likes of the young players we have...........the sheep team of the 80s also got the chance to prove themselves in a run of 1st team games.........not the one game then off.....Recall Billy Davis making his debut in a midweek game we got beat and he didn't reappear..John Morrow had a stunning game against St J away...played the following week at Ibrox and subbed at halftime, staved in the 1st half of the ball yet dumped, this ruined this boys confidence....we have had many such stories throughout the years..........plus horrendous coaches like Dodds,MacGregor, Brown to name but three.

Remember Gary Stevens telling me that as a youngster he would never had got the chance with Rangers as the youth coaches are horrendous during his time at Rangers and David Robertson saying the same thing compared to the youth set up in sheepland.

We have ahd the youngsters over the years that could have possibly made the grade, but we will never know, as they never got the chance.................yes very few never made elsewhere because for many of them they were devastated .....Rouse, Smith and the likes as mentioned Morrow and Derek Rae.

We are told the it's different at Rangers as you have to win every game............and also told it's not about winning at this age...........yet when we win at this age the coaches are out acclaiming their victory and only last week we read that the ex Barca manager said, getting the winning habit established in young players is vital within Barca.

So. re the "different at Rangers" as to winning.......why do clubs sack managers ..........if winning is not as important to them as it is us.

Every manager we have had more so in recent years have been cheque book managers as they look for the fix to keep them in a job.

So I would like to see others being played now, we have a 20 point lead so instead of throwing good prospects ut on loan...play them in our team.

I mean a number of our signings are not really doing that wonderful are they?

[SwallowsHisOwnSpunk 7,993]

question for Elfideldo

Do you think the younger ones the likes of Tom Walsh, Charlie Telfer, Luca Gasparotto etc... could cope with first team football?