Craig Whyte was too much of a coincidence for me.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Your last thought sort of sums it up - I think he was a moron, with no scruples at all.

I know quite a bit about the murky side of admin and have seen some pretty unethical, but not strictly illegal, behavior from company owners.

So two points you raise..

HMRC were pushing for admin based on unpaid taxes, not the BTC, they don't immediately leap to that position, they have a process, and in a 'good' company where debts have built up just through poor cash flow and such tehy are actual quite accomodating about getting arrears back etc. provided you work wit them and stay current in your payments - CW was doing none of this - CW wanted the club in admin and wanted to 'blame' that on someone else.

On the Admin side its not unusual, in a pheonix, to have basially agreed the structure of deal post admin before admin actually happens, and CW history shows he had went down that route a few times before, so he knew his way around. (and if admin had worked he would have had a £50M - £80M asset debt free! for the cash used to exit admin (and that he was looking to bowwor as well) His error of judgement was that D&P once appointed saw there were things that had not been disclosed and they could NOT do the pheonix deal as agreed - that really screwed CW over. D&P (IMHO) played with a straight bat and were not duped by CW. A lot of these pheonix deals are 'subject to verification' and CW was unable to hide the mince.

Another good post.

[worcesterloyal 114]

Whyte is a con man.......Who thanks to lloyds bank and muir got his hands on our beloved club,after conning ticketus

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Another good post.

Blushing!!

[iang2911 423]

the bit that sticks in my craw is the fact that the beaks at hampdump had been informed that shyte had been withholding paye in august yet took no action,why? it should have been in the best interest of the sspl,ssfa and our club for it to be investigated by the authorities but they chose to ignore. the info

Especially when, a month later, directors started resigning because they were being kept in the dark.

[A.T.G 10,773]

Dont understand the replies to this to be honest

In my opinion he was a patsy

Lloyds and SDM either knew of his intentions and turned a blind eye or instigated the whole thing and used him as a get out of jail card, it turned out too well for him and Lloyds not to mention Whyte

As for the whole EBT thing, funny how someone joins Celtic, totally banishes the scheme there and suddenly the pressure is cranked right on Rangers, set up? Fucking right it was

[LewisF 21]

You're a disgrace to the Kuznetsov family name.

[A.T.G 10,773]

Your last thought sort of sums it up - I think he was a moron, with no scruples at all.

I know quite a bit about the murky side of admin and have seen some pretty unethical, but not strictly illegal, behavior from company owners.

So two points you raise..

HMRC were pushing for admin based on unpaid taxes, not the BTC, they don't immediately leap to that position, they have a process, and in a 'good' company where debts have built up just through poor cash flow and such tehy are actual quite accomodating about getting arrears back etc. provided you work wit them and stay current in your payments - CW was doing none of this - CW wanted the club in admin and wanted to 'blame' that on someone else.

On the Admin side its not unusual, in a pheonix, to have basially agreed the structure of deal post admin before admin actually happens, and CW history shows he had went down that route a few times before, so he knew his way around. (and if admin had worked he would have had a £50M - £80M asset debt free! for the cash used to exit admin (and that he was looking to bowwor as well) His error of judgement was that D&P once appointed saw there were things that had not been disclosed and they could NOT do the pheonix deal as agreed - that really screwed CW over. D&P (IMHO) played with a straight bat and were not duped by CW. A lot of these pheonix deals are 'subject to verification' and CW was unable to hide the mince.

With regards to your HMRC bit

I have had the opposite treatment from HMRC, the company I work for fell behind on a VAT payment by ONE day, we were charged £52,000 for a late payment fee and after I explained it was due to poor cash flow they wanted me to appeal and send confirmation that a request was made to the bank for an extended overdraft to facilitate the payment

In my opinion, HMRC are wanks

[rangersfc77 170]

I believe he is a stinking rat of a businessman. I believe HMRC had an agenda against Rangers and still do They have wilfully ignored all other cases of debt collecting in and out of football. I do not believe they were in it together. HMRC is corrupt and I could hazard a sectarian papish plot as been the reason behind the witch hunt and infamous leaks.

[A.T.G 10,773]

I believe he is a stinking rat of a businessman. I believe HMRC had an agenda against Rangers and still do They have wilfully ignored all other cases of debt collecting in and out of football. I do not believe they were in it together. HMRC is corrupt and I could hazard a sectarian papish plot as been the reason behind the witch hunt and infamous leaks.

Completely agree btw

[stefmartin16 121]

I agree with Oleg. It all seems to much of a coincidence to me. I think and hope in the future the truth will out.

[eejay the dj 31,964]

Oleg.

Much as I enjoy your blogs, any chance of a positive one now and again?

What in truth is there positive to write about really .There are just to many serious matters that have to be addressed,too many bears just want to stick their heads in the sand and hope all the crap will go away

[Bad Robot 21,512]

I think you are more likely on the right lines. If there was something going on, other than him just making terrible decisions, it was more likely instigated from inside to allow us to escape the clutches of Lloyds. More plausible and makes more sense. However, I think he was just a clown with bad business practices. Lets not get too paranoid!

I think he was hand picked by DM to avoid the alleged HMRC liabilities. I just think he badly judged the whole Lloyds and Tickitus arrangement especially when he said/signed off that he would be personally liable.

[The Educator 1,572]

I feel that Whyte was a man known to have had a certain reputation about how he did business. Was there a conspiracy? If there was I would point the finger at LTSB a they are the only real winners in that they got their £18m back. They had people in our boardroom, who may or may not have had ties to our biggest rivals, they had the means to put on the pressure to force the sale through, and they also had the means to know whether or not Whyte was the genuine article.

Personally I think Whyte's appearance on the scene was a gift to certain people who wanted to damage the club for one reason and one reason alone, their love of a club from the east end of Glasgow. Whether or not they were involved in facilitating Whyte's take over by pushing him forward from within Lloyds or turning a blind eye within the football authorities to what they knew he was doing we may never know. I doubt if Whyte had the nuts to try and get away with this if he had not been aware that certain people were more than willing to ease his path for their own ends.

I said earlier in this post that there that Lloyds were the only real winners from Whyte's arrival on the scene, but we all know that isn't strictly true c****c have financially gained by our absence from the top tier and they will certainly end up with more trophies than they would have had we been there. Did they directly have a hand in this? No, but I do believe that c****c minded men did take advantage of the situation to help their cause. As we have seen the facts show that neither HMRC or the Scottish football authorities handled Rangers case in the same way that they handled similar events involving other clubs in the past or since.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

With regards to your HMRC bit

I have had the opposite treatment from HMRC, the company I work for fell behind on a VAT payment by ONE day, we were charged £52,000 for a late payment fee and after I explained it was due to poor cash flow they wanted me to appeal and send confirmation that a request was made to the bank for an extended overdraft to facilitate the payment

In my opinion, HMRC are wanks

Apologies for this TOTALLY OFF TOPIC reply But I cant let this post go.......

1. If you miss a VAT payment the first time all you get is a surcharge notice that runs for 12 months ....... and no fine is due. This means that YOUR company has already missed one VAT payment tsk tsk. Everyone (who does VAT) knows VAT has to be paid but 7th of the month after the end of the month you do the return.

2. If you miss a second payment during the default period your fine is 2% this then increases on a scale upto 15% IF you have missed 5 payments!

3. Now if £52k was your first penalty that means your previous VAT Bill was £2.6M and that means your turnover is in the region of £13M for that period and your company has already missed 2 VAT payments.

3. If £52k was your penalty because it was the 5th time you had missed payment your VAT was still £346k and your turnover for that period was £1.73M and your company had already missed 5 VAT payments.

Either way a company that size should NOT be missing a VAT payment by one day - either someone is incompetent or at it. Someone at your company has screwed up not HMRC!

[Blumhoilann 6,712]

This whole debacle will be a bleeding wound for many years to come.When the running of RFC is stabilized,surely we must have a Rangers instigated investigation into the whole affair.There has been enough conjecture,time the whole truth was out.......after Whyte is locked up ofcourse.;-)

[jonbryce 63]

After coming under the the dubious scrutiny of HMRC, and Lloyds starting to get nasty, a new owner was found. This, we hoped, would see us over the Lloyds period, and allow us to fight off HMRC- a case whic we latterly won.

However, rather than being the saviour delivering us from the evils of Lloyds and HMRC, he turned out to be far worse. Has there ever been a worse football Club owner? Could there ever be a worse one?

After all the coincidences of HMRC going after us so doggedly after agreeing to write down Arsenal's £300m debt to £10m, ignoring other larger cases and certain clubs suddenly stopping the use of EBTs just as it is agreed that a former cabinet minister joined them, whilst Lloyds started demanding harsh repayment terms, I just feel that Whyte's involvement and conduct is too much of a coincidence.

Was he hand-picked and financially induced by some wealthy and perhaps hateful individuals with an agenda? I really can't see any other possible owner fouling up so spectacularly. I don't even see how it was in his interest to try to publicly defraud the company, risking both liberty and any financial gain. He had a viable asset which he could have sold for far more than the £1 he allegedly paid. He could have taken any one of a number of decisions, including selling off shares, selling players to clear the debt, selling the whole Club instantly or even entering Administration before he started to withhold taxes?

His actions make no sense, unless he too wanted to harm the Club. Does anyone else share my suspicions, or do you feel he is a fool who merely got out of his depth? Was he a pawn or merely an egotistical buffoon?

He was hoping to do a pre-pack into a new company that he owned for very little money, and end up with a much more valuable asset that he could sell off, while shafting the creditors. He has done it many times before with other companies, but didn't realise it was a lot more difficult with Rangers.

[jonbryce 63]

That is my point that he is not normal. I am sure he has trousered enough cash from us without any assistance after Green took over.

We never got the balance of the Ticketus money that wasn't used to pay off Lloyds, or the money from selling the Arsenal shares.

[jonbryce 63]

this...Whyte gambled and lost, always maintained he was relying on a run in the CL, he was a fool and out of his depth a man with no money and no investors and hopefully no freedom

It was a £1 ticket, and he won less than he was hoping to win, but I wouldn't say he lost.

[elephants stoned 2,994]

After coming under the the dubious scrutiny of HMRC, and Lloyds starting to get nasty, a new owner was found. This, we hoped, would see us over the Lloyds period, and allow us to fight off HMRC- a case whic we latterly won.

However, rather than being the saviour delivering us from the evils of Lloyds and HMRC, he turned out to be far worse. Has there ever been a worse football Club owner? Could there ever be a worse one?

After all the coincidences of HMRC going after us so doggedly after agreeing to write down Arsenal's £300m debt to £10m, ignoring other larger cases and certain clubs suddenly stopping the use of EBTs just as it is agreed that a former cabinet minister joined them, whilst Lloyds started demanding harsh repayment terms, I just feel that Whyte's involvement and conduct is too much of a coincidence.

Was he hand-picked and financially induced by some wealthy and perhaps hateful individuals with an agenda? I really can't see any other possible owner fouling up so spectacularly. I don't even see how it was in his interest to try to publicly defraud the company, risking both liberty and any financial gain. He had a viable asset which he could have sold for far more than the £1 he allegedly paid. He could have taken any one of a number of decisions, including selling off shares, selling players to clear the debt, selling the whole Club instantly or even entering Administration before he started to withhold taxes?

His actions make no sense, unless he too wanted to harm the Club. Does anyone else share my suspicions, or do you feel he is a fool who merely got out of his depth? Was he a pawn or merely an egotistical buffoon?

Its possible but more probably he was murrays patsy to get rid of BTC and allthe baggage it had, shyte being shyte would have asked whats in it for me and no doubt mintys anwser was whatever you can cream off or steal. The idea of the bheasts getting shyte in is a intresting one and not without merit but still pretty unlikly.

[onefootwillie 1,519]

I think unfortunately it was SDM and Lloyd's easy way out Whyte will have skimmed money off to various companies and friends for consultants fees which no doubt he got a slice. If we had got champions league money he would have done the same till the money ran out. That is is history. LLyods just wanted the money no matter what and SDM needed and wanted to keep them happy unfortunately.

[A.T.G 10,773]

Apologies for this TOTALLY OFF TOPIC reply But I cant let this post go.......

1. If you miss a VAT payment the first time all you get is a surcharge notice that runs for 12 months ....... and no fine is due. This means that YOUR company has already missed one VAT payment tsk tsk. Everyone (who does VAT) knows VAT has to be paid but 7th of the month after the end of the month you do the return.

2. If you miss a second payment during the default period your fine is 2% this then increases on a scale upto 15% IF you have missed 5 payments!

3. Now if £52k was your first penalty that means your previous VAT Bill was £2.6M and that means your turnover is in the region of £13M for that period and your company has already missed 2 VAT payments.

3. If £52k was your penalty because it was the 5th time you had missed payment your VAT was still £346k and your turnover for that period was £1.73M and your company had already missed 5 VAT payments.

Either way a company that size should NOT be missing a VAT payment by one day - either someone is incompetent or at it. Someone at your company has screwed up not HMRC!

I can't let your post go haha

I will get back to you on this once in from work but you sir, are living up to your reputation as a total wank fucktard

Hopefully i am not banned once I can get back to you properly

[lancedeangers1 287]

The truth is I don't know what to think anymore. However Oleg I must admit the same assumptions as the one you are pondering have also occurred to me, shortly after it all kicked off I may add.

Lots of posters will in an instant ridicule most offerings on here anyway but the fact is all possibilities must be considered. Your not being paranoid Oleg, your merely thinking outside the box.

[The Educator 1,572]

At the end of the day a lot of this depends on whether getting involved at Rangers was Whyte's idea or if it was suggested to him by somebody in the know about how he does his business and how easy it would be to use Lloyds as a leverage tool to get him through the door. The answer to this will only ever come to light if he goes on trial for fraud.

[King Jela 20,681]

Another superb thread

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Shock horror ! Absolutely spot on BP 9

The people / person who let us down was SDM - Now SDM was a hero to me, I defended him and the way he ran Rangers for any years and he delivered some fantastic times - his unforgivable error, why he went from hero to minus zero was selling the Craig Whyte - even a basic look at the mans background or structure of the deal would have shown him to be a charlatan - or dodgy as fk - in fact I BELIEVE the board and SDM knew this but such was his need to save his other companies he sold us out to save himself!

There is no doubt both SDM and the board knew. Have you forgotten Bain's testimony at the enquiry ?

Which even so doesn't discount OK's angle in the op.