Ched Evans

[Frank Reynolds 3,359]

So I'll take you back to my original point.

My missus when shes steaming thinks shes a porn star will come in, and we'll be at it for hours. She wakes up the next morning and hungover feeling like shite, cannae remember a thing. Does that make me a rapist? Yes or no?

Considering she is your missus, you have a child together (and have thus had sex before), then you can reasonably assume that when she is drunk (to a point - if she's unconcious you can't) she can still consent, so no you wouldn't be a rapist

[Frank Reynolds 3,359]

Well the jury is wrong, and it should have been thrown out or overturned after appeal. They were either both guilty, or both innocent.

Maybe they should have had to convict both or acquit both, but in the eyes of the law McDonald had a case for assuming consent, whereas Evans didn't.

[folkestoneger 8,155]

Maybe they should have had to convict both or acquit both, but in the eyes of the law McDonald had a case for assuming consent, whereas Evans didn't.

Have you never heard the phrase the law is an ass?

[Frank Reynolds 3,359]

Yes they did.

I have read the court papers and there was one hell of a doubt about how drunk she would have been given she had no alcohol in her system the next day.

Lots of juries are full of idiots who simply fall for the best story given by the barristers on the day

Experts calculated her blood alcohol level would have been around 2.5 times the legal drink drive limit - enough to affect speech and walking, but not likely to induce memory loss (although not impossible) - as highlighted by the expert's opinion:

From the evidence of [the complainant] she appears to have suffered anterior-grade amnesia as a result of the high dose of alcohol which she consumed, and in particular that she consumed a substantial dose of alcohol during the last hour or so prior to leaving the nightclub. It appears from the evidence that her short-term memory was functioning at the time around the incident, but that the long-term record of that memory has been ablated by the high concentration of alcohol. There is, therefore, no memory record of those events and attempts to jog the memory may lead to confabulation.

[Frank Reynolds 3,359]

Have you never heard the phrase the law is an ass?

I have, you think it is being an ass in this case?

[Gers1690 194]

It may well have been the case that the jury believed she was too drunk to consent to sex with McDonald, but by going to the hotel with him, he would have had reasonable assumption that there was consent, and thus they couldn't find him guilty, not legally, of rape.

It was Evans, who lied his way into the room and had sex with said drunk woman, that the jury could not see had reasonable reason to assume consent, and thus he was convicted, as legally speaking, if you are too drunk to give consent and the other person cannot reasonably assume there is, then it is rape.

There also has to be sufficient evidence to convict, of which the evidence suggested she was certainly not too drunk.... I don't know many people who can send text messages when insanely drunk, let alone be able to send them without typos; and walking in high heels when you're far too drunk to give consent? As far as I'm aware, there is no criteria as to what is 'far too drunk to consent' but there is far more evidence to suggest she wasn't; than was.

According to both McDonald and Evans, she said "yeah" when asked can Evans join in.. sleazy as it maybe, that's not rape.

On a side note, lets say for argument sake he was guilty... in which case, he has served his punishment and should be able to continue in his profession, and the current mob rule and death threats preventing it, is much worse than bottom-end-of-the-spectrum-rape.

[UnionMen 411]

Maybe they should have had to convict both or acquit both, but in the eyes of the law McDonald had a case for assuming consent, whereas Evans didn't.

Exactly why it was total guess work.

Mcdonald claimed she gave consent to both himself & Evans

Evans claimed she gave consent, even asked him to perform oral sex on her.

Victim claims she couldn't remember a thing; was hammered as proven by CCTV & tested positive for cocaine and marijuana.

When you find someone guilty, you do so beyond reasonable doubt. How can anyone claim going by the above facts of the case that Evans acted without consent, beyond all reasonable doubt?

The jury have actually sent a message that if a girl hammered out of her face goes to a hotel with you then do what you like, that's the standard for "consent".

Both these guys are deviants to be honest, McDonald just acted with a fair bit more decorum than Evans did - but if what they did was "rape" then tens of thousands of girls are raped in major UK cities every weekend.

[Frank Reynolds 3,359]

There also has to be sufficient evidence to convict, of which the evidence suggested she was certainly not too drunk.... I don't know many people who can send text messages when insanely drunk, let alone be able to send them without typos; and walking in high heels when you're far too drunk to give consent? As far as I'm aware, there is no criteria as to what is 'far too drunk to consent' but there is far more evidence to suggest she wasn't; than was.

According to both McDonald and Evans, she said "yeah" when asked can Evans join in.. sleazy as it maybe, that's not rape.

On a side note, lets say for argument sake he was guilty... in which case, he has served his punishment and should be able to continue in his profession, and the current mob rule and death threats preventing it, is much worse than bottom-end-of-the-spectrum-rape.

I just don't think we're going to agree on your first point, and we'll end up going round in circles.

I said to Oleg earlier in this thread, that I'm using the letter of the law to benefit my argument for his conviction and so I'd be hypocritical not to agree that he should be able to continue in his profession (much as personally I wouldn't ever want to see him play again) - and the death threats et al are sickening and out of order

[simplythebest 11,453]

Yeah and what about the victim getting abuse by his supporters? Or does that not count?

I don't think anyone here has said that's right

[AlCapone 7,678]

What a lot of shite, mob rule gone mad. This country is full of left wing liberal do gooders. No mater how bad any crime is, if the sentence has been served he has served his time.

[UnionMen 411]

What a lot of shite, mob rule gone mad. This country is full of left wing liberal do gooders. No mater how bad any crime is, if the sentence has been served he has served his time.

Disgusting. Should be up to the clubs. Fuck the sponsors, if our society had any backbone then we there would be a counter-mob rule not to eat Nandos, or whatever other fucking sponsor who places themselves as some kind of higher moral standing than the business they sponsor.

That been said, I wouldn't want Ched Evans playing for the Rangers, even if he was found not guilty, but like I said, should be up to the clubs, not Rupert Murdoch and his puppet army.

[AlCapone 7,678]

Disgusting. Should be up to the clubs. Fuck the sponsors, if our society had any backbone then we there would be a counter-mob rule not to eat Nandos, or whatever other fucking sponsor who places themselves as some kind of higher moral standing than the business they sponsor.

That been said, I wouldn't want Ched Evans playing for the Rangers, even if he was found not guilty, but like I said, should be up to the clubs, not Rupert Murdoch and his puppet army.

Someone in work today said he shouldn't be allowed to play football again, because they are role models. I said as joiners are not role models would he be allowed to become a joiner..... And ply his trade in people's houses

[Frank Reynolds 3,359]

Someone in work today said he shouldn't be allowed to play football again, because they are role models. I said as joiners are not role models would he be allowed to become a joiner..... And ply his trade in people's houses

He should be allowed to play football again, role model or not, he's not in a position of power or trust like a doctor or teacher.

[AlCapone 7,678]

He should be allowed to play football again, role model or not, he's not in a position of power or trust like a doctor or teacher.

Indeed

[UnionMen 411]

Someone in work today said he shouldn't be allowed to play football again, because they are role models. I said as joiners are not role models would he be allowed to become a joiner..... And ply his trade in people's houses

anyone who uses the "role model" argument is a fucking idiot and shouldn't be allowed to raise children.

"Look son, that man is knocking an air filled sphere between 2 white sticks, you should strive to be like him regardless of whatever personality, morals and religious beliefs he may or may not have".

[Frank Reynolds 3,359]

anyone who uses the "role model" argument is a fucking idiot and shouldn't be allowed to raise children.

"Look son, that man is knocking an air filled sphere between 2 white sticks, you should strive to be like him regardless of whatever personality, morals and religious beliefs he may or may not have".

Now that I agree with you on.

If your kid looks up to a footballer more than you, you've fucked up.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,759]

No one said he could not get a job, it is just that being a footballer is ill advised right now. What sets Evans apart from other convicted footballers is that they accepted the verdict, did their time quietly and showed remorse.

Evans has yet to show any genuine remorse or contrition. I think that is one reason for the anger. He has also not done his time yet, which does not help, as he is still on licence.

[ritchieshearercaldow 22,158]

Someone in work today said he shouldn't be allowed to play football again, because they are role models. I said as joiners are not role models would he be allowed to become a joiner..... And ply his trade in people's houses

Yes he could work as a joiner, I'm sure there's a fair few dodgy ones out there, but he wouldn't make enough money to keep him or his girlfriend in a privileged lifestyle

Would you or your kid ask a convicted rapist for his autograph?

[UnionMen 411]

Yes he could work as a joiner, I'm sure there's a fair few dodgy ones out there, but he wouldn't make enough money to keep him or his girlfriend in a privileged lifestyle

Would you or your kid ask a convicted rapist for his autograph?

Yes, Mike Tyson is a true sporting great, I would like to have his autograph.

[ritchieshearercaldow 22,158]

Yes, Mike Tyson is a true sporting great, I would like to have his autograph.

And you have his photo on your bedroom wall I take it

We're not talking about grown men here, we're talking about children and who they admire

I also presume you'd feel the same about Tyson if it had been a child he'd raped?

[martin93 136]

Also, can anyone defending the scumbag answer as to why it has taken almost 3 months since his release from prison to make a half hearted apology? No? Well ill tell you, its because it's only to save his own skin as he realises that as things stand no one will employ him. So its an apology that means fuck all and just sums him up to be an odious, filthy disgusting animal.

Anyone still defending him have absolutely no morals or decency about them

[UnionMen 411]

Also, can anyone defending the scumbag answer as to why it has taken almost 3 months since his release from prison to make a half hearted apology? No? Well ill tell you, its because it's only to save his own skin as he realises that as things stand no one will employ him. So its an apology that means fuck all and just sums him up to be an odious, filthy disgusting animal.

Anyone still defending him have absolutely no morals or decency about them

Perhaps, but he's spent a few years behind bars for what many people believe wasn't even a crime. I'm sure prison had the desired effect, i bet it's taught this deviant that showing up to a hotel room in the dead of night to pump a drunk burd with yer pals isn't an acceptable way to behave and hopefully made many other teenagers/men realise the same thing.

It's doen with now, his punishment outweighed the "crime" if there was one, let him kick a baw about, that's his profession.

[simplythebest 11,453]

In terms of being too drunk, the slightest bit of drunkeness can be deemed too drunk to consent. If someone is deemed in too much of an unfit state to drive there would be sufficient evidence of 'drunkeness' to prosecute. As far as I'm aware, that's the letter of the law.

Most defendants when pleading not guilty in a rape case will say the victim gave consent. No idea why you used that argument.

For argument sake he was guilty?! He is guilty until proven otherwise. He has not served his punishment. He's served just over 2 years of a 5 year sentence. He's on license.

Moreover, given Ched Evans is a sex offender it's impossible for him to continue as a footballer due to the terms of his license; he'd be in proximity of people under the age of 18.

The last bit surely can't be right though otherwise what has been the point in all this fuss about him signing for a club or not?

[Frank Reynolds 3,359]

In terms of being too drunk, the slightest bit of drunkeness can be deemed too drunk to consent. If someone is deemed in too much of an unfit state to drive there would be sufficient evidence of 'drunkeness' to prosecute. As far as I'm aware, that's the letter of the law.

Most defendants when pleading not guilty in a rape case will say the victim gave consent. No idea why you used that argument.

For argument sake he was guilty?! He is guilty until proven otherwise. He has not served his punishment. He's served just over 2 years of a 5 year sentence. He's on license.

Moreover, given Ched Evans is a sex offender it's impossible for him to continue as a footballer due to the terms of his license; he'd be in proximity of people under the age of 18.

You are allowed to be in proximity of people under the age of 18, just not in a position of power or trust

[simplythebest 11,453]

Also, can anyone defending the scumbag answer as to why it has taken almost 3 months since his release from prison to make a half hearted apology? No? Well ill tell you, its because it's only to save his own skin as he realises that as things stand no one will employ him. So its an apology that means fuck all and just sums him up to be an odious, filthy disgusting animal.

Anyone still defending him have absolutely no morals or decency about them

The law isn't always perfect or entirely conclusive, if people think there's fair reason to doubt the conviction then they're entitled to say so without being accused of having no morals or decency. I'd rather see how his appeal goes myself, but as usual when you show up here again Martin you're just desperate to find arguments.