Carlos Pena in "He has pace" shocker!!

[TMB 14,167]

1 hour ago, William McBeath said:

Yeah that's says more about our strikers than that he's some sort of asset if you ask me. He is smart at times and has a deft touch but spends most of the games looking lost.

Do you think he's a good player? I just don't see it at all. Time will tell but I'd be looking for way better. Compare him to even the likes of Naismith. It's not even a contest for me.

The criticisms against this guy don't seem to be based on any type of reality.  The detractors say he has no touch, no pace, doesn't track back, contributes nothing, can't head a ball, etc.  He's shown he can do all of these things during the last two games.

Your criticism was that he "just drifts around doing very little".  When I pointed out to you he's one of our top scorers and therefore has contributed greatly you're still unwilling to give him any credit.  "Yeah that's says more about our strikers" - As if our strikers being out of form somehow helps Pena put the ball the net.  Pena averages a goal a game and that sort of return for an attacking midfielder would be acceptable at any club in the country.  If our strikers had shown better form maybe Pena would have more assists to his credit.

He's done okay up until now and looks to be improving with every game.  A better manager will get more out of him and he could turn out to be a real asset for this team.  Some of the current squad could reach new heights of performance under a competent manager.

[siddiqi_drinker 14,635]

2 hours ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

He's one of our top goal-scorers this season.

aye but he doesn't run around like a headless chicken so he's shite

[William McBeath 2,154]

46 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

The criticisms against this guy don't seem to be based on any type of reality.  The detractors say he has no touch, no pace, doesn't track back, contributes nothing, can't head a ball, etc.  He's shown he can do all of these things during the last two games.

Your criticism was that he "just drifts around doing very little".  When I pointed out to you he's one of our top scorers and therefore has contributed greatly you're still unwilling to give him any credit.  "Yeah that's says more about our strikers" - As if our strikers being out of form somehow helps Pena put the ball the net.  Pena averages a goal a game and that sort of return for an attacking midfielder would be acceptable at any club in the country.  If our strikers had shown better form maybe Pena would have more assists to his credit.

He's done okay up until now and looks to be improving with every game.  A better manager will get more out of him and he could turn out to be a real asset for this team.  Some of the current squad could reach new heights of performance under a competent manager.

Fair enough you like the boy but I don't see much that is that good about him. Do you think he's anywhere near as good as Naismith? As that's the sort of level we need from a playmaker type of forward player. 

You've given him credit because he manages to do somethings that he's supposed to like moving around, getting some goals, and managing a header. I think the difference is I expect all that and more. He does drift around aimlessly and doesn't cover people when we don't have possession very well at all. He is slow but has a little turn of pace. Again, so what? He doesn't contribute nearly enough for me. You talk about presenting evidence but the little bits and pieces are no more proof of him being good as those Youtube videos making shite players look good. He has scored a few and that's been what's saved him so far but he's supposed to. That's not me being hard on him its just true. It doesn't make the overall criticisms of him wrong though.

Maybe he will come good because he does have some nice touches as I've said and maybe it is to do with fitness. If he was faster and fitter he'd be a bit better for sure but how long does it take before you say this guys not got it or is just not right for British football? That's the point I'm at with him. He may turn it around and suddenly become quicker, more involved, more aggressive, better defensively, and in the air like we are used to from an expensive player but I just doubt it. I think we could have got a lot better for the reported money. 

[TMB 14,167]

2 minutes ago, William McBeath said:

Fair enough you like the boy but I don't see much that is that good about him. Do you think he's anywhere near as good as Naismith? As that's the sort of level we need from a playmaker type of forward player. 

You've given him credit because he manages to do somethings that he's supposed to like moving around, getting some goals, and managing a header. I think the difference is I expect all that and more. He does drift around aimlessly and doesn't cover people when we don't have possession very well at all. He is slow but has a little turn of pace. Again, so what? He doesn't contribute nearly enough for me. You talk about presenting evidence but the little bits and pieces are no more proof of him being good as those Youtube videos making shite players look good. He has scored a few and that's been what's saved him so far but he's supposed to. That's not me being hard on him its just true. It doesn't make the overall criticisms of him wrong though.

Maybe he will come good because he does have some nice touches as I've said and maybe it is to do with fitness. If he was faster and fitter he'd be much better for sure but how long does it take before you say this guys not got it or is just not right for British football? That's the point I'm at with him. He may turn it around and suddenly become quicker, more involved, more aggressive, better defensively, and in the air like we are used to from an expensive player but I just doubt it. I think we could have got a lot better for the reported money. 

I would love for us to have a squad filled with guys like McGregor, Papac, Weir, Davis, Jelavic, Naimith, etc.  However, it's not currently realistic and we shouldn't hold this current squad to those standards.  Much has changed since 2011 and we must acknowledge that.  Having said all that, Naismith's best season for us came in 2010/2011 when he scored a total of 11 goals.  Now, Pena already has 4 league goals to his credit and based on current form I don't think 11 is an unrealistic target for him.  

Yes, I give him credit because he's dong the job he's paid to do.  I expect a CAM to be able to score and create goals and Pena is capable of doing that.  He's shown recently that he can play killer through balls to the strikers and when was the last time we had a guy who could do that?  Yesterday, against Aberdeen, he was chasing players down in the defensive phases and at one point tackled an Aberdeen player and won us the ball back.  He does look unfit, he does look as if he's still adjusting to Scottish football, but right now he's holding his own and getting better with every game.  I'm excited to see how this guy progresses.  Some of his goals, passing, and movement, have looked real quality and under a competent manager he could be a real asset.  

[William McBeath 2,154]

27 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

I would love for us to have a squad filled with guys like McGregor, Papac, Weir, Davis, Jelavic, Naimith, etc.  However, it's not currently realistic and we shouldn't hold this current squad to those standards.  Much has changed since 2011 and we must acknowledge that.  Having said all that, Naismith's best season for us came in 2010/2011 when he scored a total of 11 goals.  Now, Pena already has 4 league goals to his credit and based on current form I don't think 11 is an unrealistic target for him.  

Yes, I give him credit because he's dong the job he's paid to do.  I expect a CAM to be able to score and create goals and Pena is capable of doing that.  He's shown recently that he can play killer through balls to the strikers and when was the last time we had a guy who could do that?  Yesterday, against Aberdeen, he was chasing players down in the defensive phases and at one point tackled an Aberdeen player and won us the ball back.  He does look unfit, he does look as if he's still adjusting to Scottish football, but right now he's holding his own and getting better with every game.  I'm excited to see how this guy progresses.  Some of his goals, passing, and movement, have looked real quality and under a competent manager he could be a real asset.  

That's what gets me here. People say he's getting better but apart from that one through ball to Miller, a back heel, and a sliding tackle, what did he do? Floated about looking lost and going up for balls like a limp wristed dancer. That's in a game we heavily dominated. That just shows how bad he's been for the rest of the season if that's him getting better.

As I say he does have some good touches but he flatters to deceive. If he adds a lot more to his game then maybe he will prove to be a good buy but right now he's not good enough if we're to get back to winning trophies.

Our last successful team is the bench mark whether you think it's fair or not because it's were we need to be at. It would maybe be unfair if it was Windass who probably gets more stick than Pena but the latter cost at least as much if not more than Naismith. So why should we not expect as much? How good he is has nothing to do with what happened to Rangers in 2012. We paid a lot of money for him and have waited half a season for him to get to the point where he does three decent things during a match we heavily dominate.

Any other player would be getting called a wage thief rather than get excuses made for him. I mean how long does it take a guy to get fit ffs? Surely if he's still unfit then that's atrocious? Thank fuck all the cheap players we have can at least get in shape or where would we be? I think you and others are too easily satisfied when it comes to this guy. He should be compared to players who costs similar amounts.

[geneva_ger 9,681]

49 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

Some of his goals, passing, and movement, have looked real quality and under a competent manager he could be a real asset.  

I think what we are saying is that he is no Coutinho or Rodriguez and nor should we expect him to be, but we'd like him to "appear" to be like those guys and all we've had so far is the one swallow that don't make no summer. We already have Niko contributing similar obligations such as a deft flick or a tidy goal or two. I hope Pedro comes back for him and Herrera and we get Moult and a recognised, hard-working CAM in January.

Not that wee sheep fanny Mclean either.

[TMB 14,167]

16 minutes ago, geneva_ger said:

I think what we are saying is that he is no Coutinho or Rodriguez and nor should we expect him to be, but we'd like him to "appear" to be like those guys and all we've had so far is the one swallow that don't make no summer. We already have Niko contributing similar obligations such as a deft flick or a tidy goal or two. I hope Pedro comes back for him and Herrera and we get Moult and a recognised, hard-working CAM in January.

Not that wee sheep fanny Mclean either.

It's not "one swallow" thought is it?  He's scored a number of goals for us.  Four in the league and a two in the cup against Dundee.  Dorrans did well at the beginning of the season but sadly he took a knock and has been out for a while.  Right now the only goal-scoring midfielders we have are Pena and Windass.  Niko hasn't contributed anything this season and doesn't even seem to play for us anymore.

On a side note, I'm not a fan of Herrera and would love to see Moult come in as his replacement.  

[trueblueal 2,117]

14 hours ago, Siwel said:

His pass to Tav on Wednesday was brilliant too and the backheel yo set Windass up perfectly today. I wonder if it’s not that he’s a bad passer he’s just very direct with all of his passing.

He plays fearless passes. Always looking to make the difference. I think you are right and because he tries a lot of through balls they don't always work. 

[geneva_ger 9,681]

5 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

On a side note, I'm not a fan of Herrera and would love to see Moult come in as his replacement.

I think this should happen and If McInnes is the new boss then it's likely. I would never say Pena is rank and perhaps with Big McCrorie doing what he's doing now it will help Pena do his thing alongside Dorrans and Jack. I believe we are getting better.

[geneva_ger 9,681]

1 minute ago, trueblueal said:

He plays fearless passes. Always looking to make the difference. I think you are right and because he tries a lot of through balls they don't always work. 

 Similar to Niko who can do the intelligent pass, and very dissimilar to Miller who sadly has a tackle to make after his first touch. I'd sacrifice Miller for Pena if we can get El Buffalo to do the running and holding.

[TMB 14,167]

14 minutes ago, geneva_ger said:

I think this should happen and If McInnes is the new boss then it's likely. I would never say Pena is rank and perhaps with Big McCrorie doing what he's doing now it will help Pena do his thing alongside Dorrans and Jack. I believe we are getting better.

Moult's the top scorer in Scotland and he's free in January it's a no brainer.  I think he'd be a very good strike partner for Morelos and I love the way he battles and puts himself about.  A bit of luck with injuries, some good business in the January transfer window, and we could have a very good second half of the season.  

[TMB 14,167]

1 hour ago, William McBeath said:

That's what gets me here. People say he's getting better but apart from that one through ball to Miller, a back heel, and a sliding tackle, what did he do? Floated about looking lost and going up for balls like a limp wristed dancer. That's in a game we heavily dominated. That just shows how bad he's been for the rest of the season if that's him getting better.

As I say he does have some good touches but he flatters to deceive. If he adds a lot more to his game then maybe he will prove to be a good buy but right now he's not good enough if we're to get back to winning trophies.

Our last successful team is the bench mark whether you think it's fair or not because it's were we need to be at. It would maybe be unfair if it was Windass who probably gets more stick than Pena but the latter cost at least as much if not more than Naismith. So why should we not expect as much? How good he is has nothing to do with what happened to Rangers in 2012. We paid a lot of money for him and have waited half a season for him to get to the point where he does three decent things during a match we heavily dominate.

Any other player would be getting called a wage thief rather than get excuses made for him. I mean how long does it take a guy to get fit ffs? Surely if he's still unfit then that's atrocious? Thank fuck all the cheap players we have can at least get in shape or where would we be? I think you and others are too easily satisfied when it comes to this guy. He should be compared to players who costs similar amounts.

What I will say is that Naismith spent a lot of time on the injury table, only ever scored 2 goals against the Tims, and at the height of his powers scored 11 league goals in a season.  Over the course of his 3 year contract Pena could very well contribute more than Naismith did.  Only time will tell but I do think he can give us 10+ a season from midfield while creating a few along the way.

[William McBeath 2,154]

13 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

What I will say is that Naismith spent a lot of time on the injury table, only ever scored 2 goals against the Tims, and at the height of his powers scored 11 league goals in a season.  Over the course of his 3 year contract Pena could very well contribute more than Naismith did.  Only time will tell but I do think he can give us 10+ a season from midfield while creating a few along the way.

Hopefully you're right as we could do with as many players as possible coming good after wasting so much money these last few years. He does at least try the hard passes which cause the most damage so if he can up the rest of his contribution then he could come good. I'm just a bit pissed off and doubtful because of how long he's already been here.

[plumbGER 24,518]

Genuine question, where would we be without his goals this season?

[stevemartin1991 262]

I have to think with Pena the language barrier must be a massive hinderence. He does look like he could have flashes of brilliance. Just needs the fans to back him and give the guy a bit of confidence.

[cushynumber 25,178]

because he isnt blessed with pace, he uses his brain to find space and make intelligent runs. He is the polar opposite of say Windass, who has plenty of pace but not a scintilla of footballing intelligence. I think as the season progresses - if he keeps getting picked and gaining match sharpness - people will gradually see exactly what he brings to the team. He needs a chance to show it though, and he needs a run of games to get really match sharp. 

[GersInCanada 7,775]

He is a very good player and fitter than he looks. Finally playing in his best position. He finds space so easily which is why the sheep always looked to have given him too much room. Being the tip of the diamond gives that bit of freedom he needs.

Frustrating at times but then he does something that is quite brilliant.

A lot of this is down to Murty not trying to force round pegs into square holes but setting us up so that players are actually playing in their best positions.

 

[NeoGeo7 11,269]

1 hour ago, stevemartin1991 said:

I have to think with Pena the language barrier must be a massive hinderence. He does look like he could have flashes of brilliance. Just needs the fans to back him and give the guy a bit of confidence.

Let’s make up a song for him then.

Only one Carlos Pena

He’s Mexican not from Kenya

He does a line

And he plays sublime

Walking in a Pena wonderland

[NeoGeo7 11,269]

1 hour ago, cushynumber said:

because he isnt blessed with pace, he uses his brain to find space and make intelligent runs. He is the polar opposite of say Windass, who has plenty of pace but not a scintilla of footballing intelligence. I think as the season progresses - if he keeps getting picked and gaining match sharpness - people will gradually see exactly what he brings to the team. He needs a chance to show it though, and he needs a run of games to get really match sharp. 

Somebody get on the phone to Jeff Goldblum and see if these are still kicking around

pena’s intelligence and windass’ running we could have a world beater or we could have penas running and windass’ intelligence......kill it! Kill it with fire!

[OneDavidCooper 2,505]

Fat, unprofessional and get him on the transfer list.

[STRUTH82 838]

I dont have the stats, but he does seem to have an impact in any game he plays, scoring or assisting with the goals. In between he is frustrating, but some players are just like that.

[K.A.I 36,183]

He has talent alright 

watch back the highlights yesterday and some of his touches and link up was really good 

[jjbscotty12 3,581]

There is some of the support that have made their mind up on him months ago  it seems and no matter what he does in a game they still say hes pish.

[Lloyd 10,756]

6 hours ago, OneDavidCooper said:

Fat, unprofessional and get him on the transfer list.

Fat 

[Lloyd 10,756]