first they came

[minstral 5,375]

first they came for the billy boys and i did not speak out because i was not a billy boy.

then they came for the sash and i did not speak out because my father never wore one.

then they came for derrys walls and i did not speak out because i was not a apprentice boy.

then they came for me but there were no rangers supporters left to speak out for me.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

first they came for the billy boys and i did not speak out because i was not a billy boy.

then they came for the sash and i did not speak out because my father never wore one.

then they came for derrys walls and i did not speak out because i was not a apprentice boy.

then they came for me but there were no rangers supporters left to speak out for me.

Nice re-jigging of an old theme there bro !

[Ace 3,556]

first they came for the billy boys and i did not speak out because i was not a billy boy.

They actually came for the "Fenian Blood" but hey, lets not let facts get in the way .....

then they came for the sash and i did not speak out because my father never wore one.

I beleive that most organisations & pundits accept that there is nothing wrong with this song, it is only those in Green & white that look to confuse things.

then they came for derrys walls and i did not speak out because i was not a apprentice boy.

Again, as with the sash

then they came for me but there were no rangers supporters left to speak out for me.

You are no longer a Rangers fan because you can't sing a couple of songs ????? ...... A fan is much more than singing songs, as you & most loyal Rangers fans already know.

[minstral 5,375]

first they came for the billy boys and i did not speak out because i was not a billy boy.

They actually came for the "Fenian Blood" but hey, lets not let facts get in the way .....

then they came for the sash and i did not speak out because my father never wore one.

I beleive that most organisations & pundits accept that there is nothing wrong with this song, it is only those in Green & white that look to confuse things.

then they came for derrys walls and i did not speak out because i was not a apprentice boy.

Again, as with the sash

then they came for me but there were no rangers supporters left to speak out for me.

You are no longer a Rangers fan because you can't sing a couple of songs ????? ...... A fan is much more than singing songs, as you & most loyal Rangers fans already know.

whatever flicks your switch.

[Coopermania 1]

first they came for the billy boys and i did not speak out because i was not a billy boy.

then they came for the sash and i did not speak out because my father never wore one.

then they came for derrys walls and i did not speak out because i was not a apprentice boy.

then they came for me but there were no rangers supporters left to speak out for me.

I like that minstral, makes you think

[*Manticore* 1,893]

first they came for the billy boys and i did not speak out because i was not a billy boy.

They actually came for the "Fenian Blood" but hey, lets not let facts get in the way .....

then they came for the sash and i did not speak out because my father never wore one.

I beleive that most organisations & pundits accept that there is nothing wrong with this song, it is only those in Green & white that look to confuse things.

then they came for derrys walls and i did not speak out because i was not a apprentice boy.

Again, as with the sash

then they came for me but there were no rangers supporters left to speak out for me.

You are no longer a Rangers fan because you can't sing a couple of songs ????? ...... A fan is much more than singing songs, as you & most loyal Rangers fans already know.

whatever flicks your switch.

As the saying goes m, there's none so blind....

[superally07 387]

first they came for the billy boys and i did not speak out because i was not a billy boy.

then they came for the sash and i did not speak out because my father never wore one.

then they came for derrys walls and i did not speak out because i was not a apprentice boy.

then they came for me but there were no rangers supporters left to speak out for me.

I like that minstral, makes you think

I was thinkin . ' wot points he making heer ' but afta eh last line it makes sence

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Funnily enough we recently played in the town of origin of the man behind the original saying.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

It's very true Minstral, divide and conquer, or if you prefer a death of a thousand cuts. My own favourite analogy for what is going on is Mr Chamberlain's idea of peace in our time by appeasing an aggressor, and just as in the 30s it's clear that backing down only makes the enemy stronger and bolder, leading of course to anything but peace in our time.

Let there be no doubt here that what is safe for us to do today will not be safe tomorrow, after all for years it was said if Rangers were only to sign Catholics then everything in the garden would be rosy and yet here we are, years after crossing that particular rubicund, more reviled and hunted than ever.

To spell it out however much we change the hatred against us does not decline, therefore the problem is with them not with us.

[nvager 498]

It's very true Minstral, divide and conquer, or if you prefer a death of a thousand cuts.

My own favourite analogy for what is going on is Mr Chamberlain's idea of peace in our time by appeasing an aggressor, and just as in the 30s it's clear that backing down only makes the enemy stronger and more bold while weakening our position.

Let there be no doubt here that what is safe for us to do today will not be safe tomorrow, after all for years it was said if Rangers were only to sign Catholics then everything in the garden would be rosey and here we are, years after crossing that particular rubicund, even more reviled and hunted than ever.

To spell it out however much we change the hatred against us does not decline, therefore the problem is with them not with us.

A lot of truth there, but we have to obey the current rules. Lets hope that despite the emotions we can do that. We must do that as we have no choice.

WE should be open minded and non sectarian even if our opponents are not.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

The problem is most of the damage has been done, it was the years of Murray's "dignified silence" that gave those who hate us the encouragement they needed to take that hatred all the way to UEFA. Once it went to that level really the best we could hope for was damage limitation because any big club, with the well established traditions we have, would find it almost impossible to change so much virtually over night :angry2:.

For what it's worth I agree with stopping FTP but that will not be the end of it, it will only end when we are so demoralised and divided against ourselves that there will be little left of the club we once knew and loved.

[Jelle1880 266]

Funnily enough we recently played in the town of origin of the man behind the original saying.

Yes yes and you saw his statue

[BLUE CYCLOPS 26]

The problem is most of the damage has been done, it was the years of Murray's "dignified silence" that gave those who hate us the encouragement they needed to take that hatred all the way to UEFA. Once it went to that level really the best we could hope for was damage limitation because any big club, with the well established traditions we have, would find it almost impossible to change so much virtually over night

For what it's worth I agree with stopping FTP but that will not be the end of it, it will only end when we are so demoralised and divided against ourselves that there will be little left of the club we once knew and loved.

________________________________________________________________________________

_______________

I made all these points a few weeks ago and a few posters crapped all over me.

My original point was --we must not allow Celtic to break the term "OLD FIRM", the minute they manage to isolate us

them the boot will really go in.We have a problem and we know it. We must eliminate that problem (the FTP brigade etc) I imagine the main complaint against my post was the fact that I compared and tied us in with Septic.

I can understand some people not liking that but we must use the weapons available to us. For years everyone knew and commented on sectarian bigotry in Scotland. Septic and Rangers were lumped together as being equally to blame. Septic are now attempting to break that link and isolate us.THEY MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO SUCCEED.

We are devoting too much of our energies to defending ourselves, leaving the neutrals to think there must be something in the accusations. That is my reason for stating that we MUST tie Celtic into the "OLD FIRM" brand.

While we have a reputation for sectarianism we are in a no win situation. We are so busy crying foul and fighting amongst ourselves while the Scum have moved onto the next phase of isolating us and breaking any link with the term "OLD FIRM".

We must tie Celtic ,and continue to tie Celtic, into the OLD FIRM. The rest of Europe MUST BE MADE AWARE THAT THIS IS NOT ONLY A RANGERS PROBLEM. Only then can our efforts in eliminating the problem be appreciated.

I understand some people misunderstanding my original point. They think my tying Celtic/Rangers together is offensive to them. Lets face it,we DO have a problem so Celtics propaganda against us has a ready made anchor point. What me must do is to deny them the opportunity to braek away from the "OLD FIRM" and leave us isolated.

We must take the fight to the Scum and ensure that Europe knows that they do not have the solution,they are part of the problem.

[finzster 0]

first they came for the billy boys and i did not speak out because i was not a billy boy.

then they came for the sash and i did not speak out because my father never wore one.

then they came for derrys walls and i did not speak out because i was not a apprentice boy.

then they came for me but there were no rangers supporters left to speak out for me.

For FS, get a grip of yourself/reality!

There have been a few songs banned due to content....so whit! Get on with it man, and stop portraying yourself as a victim! You are acting like a spoilt 5 year old girl! - or worse......timmy!

Everyone know's the situation; and it aint gonna change anytime soon! Move on with your life...there is more to supporting your team than signing about your sexual fantasies with the pope, et al!

[minstral 5,375]

first they came for the billy boys and i did not speak out because i was not a billy boy.

then they came for the sash and i did not speak out because my father never wore one.

then they came for derrys walls and i did not speak out because i was not a apprentice boy.

then they came for me but there were no rangers supporters left to speak out for me.

For FS, get a grip of yourself/reality!

There have been a few songs banned due to content....so whit! Get on with it man, and stop portraying yourself as a victim! You are acting like a spoilt 5 year old girl! - or worse......timmy!

Everyone know's the situation; and it aint gonna change anytime soon! Move on with your life...there is more to supporting your team than signing about your sexual fantasies with the pope, et al!

you stick to your sad little world that you live in and i will stay in my world along with thousands of other true blues who feel the same way. at least we have the guts to fight for our club and will not stand by and watch the heart being torn from the club, by all the do-gooders and you know what you have just answered my post because they will soon be nothing left of the club that the old school and thousands of fans gave everything for our club, they have followed them all over the place, bought all the merchindise and sacrificed everything for the club they love. so you would give up all the songs that we sing, could you tell me what is wrong with the songs without the add ons, and dont accuse me about singing songs about the pope, where did i say i sang about the pope. so produce proof please. also your whats wrong with our club nowadays, no fight against people who attack our club and fans, you just sit back and wait for your belly to be tickled and told that your a good boy, but i dont know why i waste my time , because who is it that you support again, its not rangers or celtic just tell us who please.

[J_RFC87 761]

A lot of truth there, but we have to obey the current rules. Lets hope that despite the emotions we can do that. We must do that as we have no choice.

WE should be open minded and non sectarian even if our opponents are not.

What's the original Minstral?

[finzster 0]

first they came for the billy boys and i did not speak out because i was not a billy boy.

then they came for the sash and i did not speak out because my father never wore one.

then they came for derrys walls and i did not speak out because i was not a apprentice boy.

then they came for me but there were no rangers supporters left to speak out for me.

For FS, get a grip of yourself/reality!

There have been a few songs banned due to content....so whit! Get on with it man, and stop portraying yourself as a victim! You are acting like a spoilt 5 year old girl! - or worse......timmy!

Everyone know's the situation; and it aint gonna change anytime soon! Move on with your life...there is more to supporting your team than signing about your sexual fantasies with the pope, et al!

you stick to your sad little world that you live in and i will stay in my world along with thousands of other true blues who feel the same way. at least we have the guts to fight for our club and will not stand by and watch the heart being torn from the club, by all the do-gooders and you know what you have just answered my post because they will soon be nothing left of the club that the old school and thousands of fans gave everything for our club, they have followed them all over the place, bought all the merchindise and sacrificed everything for the club they love. so you would give up all the songs that we sing, could you tell me what is wrong with the songs without the add ons, and dont accuse me about singing songs about the pope, where did i say i sang about the pope. so produce proof please. also your whats wrong with our club nowadays, no fight against people who attack our club and fans, you just sit back and wait for your belly to be tickled and told that your a good boy, but i dont know why i waste my time , because who is it that you support again, its not rangers or celtic just tell us who please.

Humble apologies all knowledgable one!

Move on....it's 2007 now mate. The world is evolving and your being left behind!

[*Manticore* 1,893]

A lot of truth there, but we have to obey the current rules. Lets hope that despite the emotions we can do that. We must do that as we have no choice.

WE should be open minded and non sectarian even if our opponents are not.

What's the original Minstral?

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews

and I did not speak out

because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists

and I did not speak out

because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists

and I did not speak out

because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left

to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

[J_RFC87 761]

cheers Manticore

[Boab 73]

first they came for the billy boys and i did not speak out because i was not a billy boy.

then they came for the sash and i did not speak out because my father never wore one.

then they came for derrys walls and i did not speak out because i was not a apprentice boy.

then they came for me but there were no rangers supporters left to speak out for me.

Doesn't mean much to me either, 3 songs I've never had any affection for but if some do then fair enough.

But the sentiments shouldn't suggest that one is not a proper rangers fan If you don't sing those songs either. Infact 'No such a team' should be as much of a powerful song if not more.

[blueballss 2,973]

A lot of truth there, but we have to obey the current rules. Lets hope that despite the emotions we can do that. We must do that as we have no choice.

WE should be open minded and non sectarian even if our opponents are not.

What's the original Minstral?

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews

and I did not speak out

because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists

and I did not speak out

inspiring

because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists

and I did not speak out

because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left

to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

[Ibroxblue 122]

The implied comparison with the victims of the Nazi Holocaust is a tad melodramatic.

It seems the problem is with songs or chants that abuse other groups so stuff like "FTP" and "Fenian blood" is, rightly, out. Some clarification of what is unacceptable would be welcome and maybe we'll get it quite soon.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

The implied comparison with the victims of the Nazi Holocaust is a tad melodramatic.

It seems the problem is with songs or chants that abuse other groups so stuff like "FTP" and "Fenian blood" is, rightly, out. Some clarification of what is unacceptable would be welcome and maybe we'll get it quite soon.

There is no implied comparison with the holocaust and it is offensive of you to suggest it.

minstral is merely using the same rhetorical style as Niemoller to make a point.

You really shouldn't make light of the holocaust like that.

[Ibroxblue 122]

The implied comparison with the victims of the Nazi Holocaust is a tad melodramatic.

It seems the problem is with songs or chants that abuse other groups so stuff like "FTP" and "Fenian blood" is, rightly, out. Some clarification of what is unacceptable would be welcome and maybe we'll get it quite soon.

There is no implied comparison with the holocaust and it is offensive of you to suggest it.

minstral is merely using the same rhetorical style as Niemoller to make a point.

You really shouldn't make light of the holocaust like that.

Nice try but if anything was offensive it was the original post.

[minstral 5,375]

The implied comparison with the victims of the Nazi Holocaust is a tad melodramatic.

It seems the problem is with songs or chants that abuse other groups so stuff like "FTP" and "Fenian blood" is, rightly, out. Some clarification of what is unacceptable would be welcome and maybe we'll get it quite soon.

all i am saying is every time we give a inch they want a mile, and soon there will be nothing left to give, and it wont stop there, they will start on the colour blue next, or they will want us to change our name from rangers because they hate us so much, and you know when they will be happy, when rangers is nothing but rubble and dust.