Nazi Salute

[Davy 68]

Look. I don't like them doing it, but it is not a nazi salute.

[delparlane 5,753]

Look. I don't like them doing it, but it is not a nazi salute.

You know it, I know it, and everyone on here knows it as well. Doesn't matter - we have to be able to look outside the box. Most of the people around the globe that see this will not have the benefit of a Bear being there to tell them what it's all about. Because of that, it does not show our team in a good light.

[Ibroxblue 122]

"When the fans raise their right hand, which is done during Rule Britannia, it is an Ulster salute."

Apart from Ulster and Ibrox no one else in the world would know that is is not a nazi salute, just more ammunition to use against the club and should have no place in the 21st century.

As I understand the situation, it's not done in Ulster. This really has to be cut out. Just think of the ammunition it gives to our enemies.

[leftyger 0]

How can it be a different kind though, they look the same ?

For the above reason, I no longer raise my hand during RB, but it is not a Nazi salute!

If it looks like duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned it's a Nazi salute. Anyone doing at Ibrox should be warned and if they do it again banned.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

"When the fans raise their right hand, which is done during Rule Britannia, it is an Ulster salute."

Apart from Ulster and Ibrox no one else in the world would know that is is not a nazi salute, just more ammunition to use against the club and should have no place in the 21st century.

As I understand the situation, it's not done in Ulster. This really has to be cut out. Just think of the ammunition it gives to our enemies.

No Ulster bears I've talked to have no time for it.

You're right, it has to go.

Or bring back the red gloves

[nvager 498]

Let's face it some in our support are THICK!

[*Manticore* 1,893]

How can it be a different kind though, they look the same ?

For the above reason, I no longer raise my hand during RB, but it is not a Nazi salute!

If it looks like duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned it's a Nazi salute. Anyone doing at Ibrox should be warned and if they do it again banned.

At ibrox is bad enough.

I was sitting with two Israeli burdz when they did it in Tel Aviv, thank feck they didn't notice.

[scottishtuner 0]

yea def looks bad but if they wore red gloves would be no confusion.

[THEFISH 0]

Not impressed with the people around me in the Govan front area doing the Nazi Salute - childish and uncalled for - notibly it was younger supporters but what does this hold for the future?

Im afraid you talk pesh and you werent at the game and you know hee haw about Rangers fans

Its called the red hand of Gods Ulster....

NO SURRENDER WE ARE THE PEOPLE

[Thermopylae 15,287]

They are out of order but you lot are just as bad, bowing down the tims by calling it a Nazi Salute!

When the fuck were Rangers Nazis!

FFS

It is a good point, why does everyone assume when someone puts their hand in the air it's a NAZI salute. I do tend to agree though that doing it is a bit of an own goal since it's so easily misconstrued, especially when the PR from the club is so diabolical

[THEFISH 0]

They are out of order but you lot are just as bad, bowing down the tims by calling it a Nazi Salute!

When the fuck were Rangers Nazis!

FFS

It is a good point, why does everyone assume when someone puts their hand in the air it's a NAZI salute. I do tend to agree though that doing it is a bit of an own goal since it's so easily misconstrued, especially when the PR from the club is so diabolical

Its non Rangers fans who assume this just like the tattie picker who saw it on the telly...excellent view of the Govan front

The read hand salute is here to stay ya scum bags

[justiston 91]

Calling Rangers fans "scumbags"

I was warned for less....

"red hand salute"

When you get to Ibrox, you'll see for your self

[Gaffbear 4,104]

WE'RE NO FKN NAZI'S END OF

Wan guy winding up the Germans is not the end of civilisation.considering they were involved in bother during the game but i don't hear any outcry over that.

Fuckin Rangers fans getting it in the neck as usual.......This is the Murray syndrome all over.

Back your own supporters even if the odd wan acts like a clown.

[blueger9 0]

Unreal that some of the posters on here cannae seem to wait to get their teeth into the " nazi salute " crap every time some erse puts their hand in the air at a Euro game.

Its ironic that no one else to my knowledge, has complained or made a big girly fuss about anything...naw... no until ye get on a RFC forum..... some claiming to be RFC fans seem quite willing to twist the knife....doing the mhank mhedia job for them........WATP.

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,715]

This is as bad as that bheggar who phoned clyde up last night and complained we were singing sectarian songs again and keevins said they just had to air the call or snyde would be accused of sweeping it under the table the twisted little bheggar that he is . But at least Darryl King vehemently defended our right to what was sung ?

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,488]

When the fans raise their right hand, which is done during Rule Britannia, it is an Ulster salute.

If it looks like chicken and it smells like chicken then the chances are that people are going to think it's chicken.

It's not my POV on it, but I hardly think the majoirty of Europe are going to be aware of the fact that it is an Ulster salute!

They WILL percieve it as being a Nazi salute and with UEFA already looking into it in the past then I think it's best that we just don't do it at all!

[Briton 394]

the bald guy on the tv at half time did look remarkably like a nazi salute though

That is the whole point. All this...'it's the red hand salute' is bollocks. It will be seen as a Nazi salute and our enemies will make sure it's portrayed as such.

[Frankie 505]

It's daft and it needs to be eradicated. And it will - slowly but surely.

We're making great progress and one guy doing this won't hinder our progress. Hopefully the club will be able to find out who it is and warn him as to his future conduct.

Meanwhile, we should be concentrating on the good stuff last night - not one misguided soul.

[stuartmccallsfall 4]

It w3as a Nazi salute, end of. Think please what the Nazi's said to the salute. FFS I could nearly read the guys mind, perfect timing, if you like.

Hard to believe though that the Sky cameras caught this one bloke out of 50,000 at half time.

I was going to wear a bandage on my head and do the funny walk, does that make me a Nazi or a wind up merchant ?

"And dont mention the war.........."

[Jamesie 0]

Ulster salute or nazi salute. why do it in the first place !!!

[THEFISH 0]

Ulster salute or nazi salute. why do it in the first place !!!

Well we do it cos we like doing it and we have many Billy Boy brothers in gods Ulster

NOOOOOOO SUUUUUUURRRRRENDER

[*Manticore* 1,893]

From FF Fanzine, 4 or 5 years ago:

NO PLACE FOR NAZISM

Since it appeared on Tuesday the 8th of August 2000 in the Herald an article which claimed Rangers fans perform Nazi salutes has been taken up with glee by the enemies of the club. Strangely these critics had never noticed the prevalence of Red Hand salutes before!

Over the years the raising of a hand wearing a red glove which started at Ibrox in the 70s during the singing of loyalist songs has developed into raising the hand with or without a glove.

The content of Ian Paul’s article shows how divorced he, most journalists and officials at Ibrox are from the people who actually pay to support the club.

Paul says that he noticed a ‘new ugliness’ with regard to Nazi salutes amongst the Ibrox support at Kilmarnock which prompted him to write his article. Nonsense, Rangers fans have demonstrated their support for the people of Ulster in this way for nigh on 30 years - if he says this is new to him he is either a fool or a knave.

What in fact happened was that the Kilmarnock Commercial Director/Press Officer Jim McSherry entered the Media Room at Rugby Park after the match in a highly agitated state to ask why the journalists never mentioned that ‘Rangers fans always sing Rule Britannia when they come here’ and stormed out of the room before any of the assembled reptiles had a chance to reply. Paul presumably contacted McSherry on the Monday to get him to elaborate on his rant on the Saturday and to gain himself brownie points by doing Kilmarnock’s bidding. (All of these cretins who gibber on in the press about Rule Britannia should note it was actually written by a Scotsman).

The fact that he did contact Kilmarnock on the Monday is confirmed in a paragraph where he states that “quite a few ticket holders have complained to the Ayrshire club since the weekend.†Presumably these people, if they exist, have done so before but the club has never felt the need to expose the ‘Nazism’ before.

How did ‘Red Handing’ begin at Ibrox?

I don’t know the exact date but certainly the Ulster Troubles meant that by the mid-70s it was common at Ibrox for songs like Derry’s Walls, No Surrender to the !RA or UDA All The Way to be accompanied by mass swaying with people wearing red gloves as a sign of support for the Protestant community in Ulster.

I myself recall that during my involvement in the Federation of Conservative Students (disbanded in 1986) we often rounded up our members to pack meetings at various universities and colleges in Glasgow and Edinburgh when there were pro-!RA motions up for discussion and vote. Not very democratic to vote when we weren’t supposed to - but hey, it was our patriotic duty! Anyway, very often we would wear red gloves when we were voting on a show of hands. All part of the struggle against fascism in Ulster.

So, we’ve established that the Nazi salutes are nothing of the sort - they are a sign of solidarity with the struggle against terrorism in Ulster. What we now have to consider is whether the current situation is a clever one. I would say that without wearing a red glove it is utterly stupid to raise your hand when singing - in fact I’m surprised that enemies of the club haven’t made much more of it over the years - it cries out for misuse by the enemies of the club.

Secondly, the ethos of the community which provides Rangers with the vast bulk of it’s support is totally inimicable to nazism and we shouldn’t allow people to misrepresent us. Cards on the table time - I’m proud of our community. Our community’s record is beyond reproach on the question of Nazism. The communities whose present-day members hate Rangers were, for the most part, allies of Nazism.

Those who claim that the Union Flag is somehow a racist flag forget that it was the only flag of the only country which stood alone against Hitler - the easy thing for this country to have done was to have caved in to Hitler. But Britain isn’t that kind of country and we aren’t that kind of people. Whilst the rest of the world was either conquered or stood idly by we were the only people who fought. It truly was our finest hour. The flag which always flies over Ibrox Stadium is the noblest one the world has ever seen. It will never be hijacked by Holocaust deniers. Never.

The extreme left in this country never raised a hand to help in the war effort - they organised strikes when Hitler was building his invasion fleet and opposed conscription! - because Stalin was Hitler’s ally until the summer of 1941. These same people denounced as a lie reports of Stalin’s horrific mass murder of the 14,000 Polish Army officers at Katyn Wood - and these people call us fascists?

While Britain stood alone the !RA set off bombs in Britain, one of their Chiefs of Staff died on a German U-boat on it’s way loaded with guns for a stab in the back, his replacement died in an SS officer’s hospital in Germany planning a similar effort. De Valera’s Ireland stood idly by and demanded the surrender of Ulster to them as the price for letting British ships enter their waters. Shortly after the outbreak of war the government reported over 5,000 known draft-dodgers being sheltered by Dublin. And these people call us fascists?

The intellectual fathers of today’s SNP fared no better - they toddled off to Dublin and set up the Nazi supporting Radio Caledonia - sadly none of those b'stards joined William “Lord Haw-Haw†Joyce on the scaffold after the war. And these people call us fascists?

Paul’s’ article wanders off into flights of fantasy jabbering on about “strong national Front connotations.†The NF imploded and ceased to exist over ten years ago. He then goes on to make the following observation:- ‘the singers would almost certainly be the sons or grandsons of men who made the ultimate sacrifice to halt Nazism.’ I suppose he never thought to think - ‘maybe they aren’t Nazis and there’s some other explanation?’ But that would require something more than a strong desire to pander to the Jim McSherrys of this world.

I imagine that my family is not dissimilar to most Bears. My old man, on account of being a mechanic, could have skipped war service by using the “reserved occupation†get-out. Instead he chose to revoke that and joined the Eighth Army in the desert. He didn’t do it because he hated Germany or enjoyed a fight (although as a boxer he did actually!) - he did it because his country was under threat and thought that the Nazis were simply “bad b'stards.†Most of us have similar backgrounds which inculcate into us a horror of arbitrary power and the cruelty which all forms of dictatorship bring - it simply isn’t how the British do things.

Old Dan may not have left me much but he left me with the the simple love of your country and common decency which has ever been the mark of a free people. The very idea that Rangers fans could be associated with nazism is simply too ludicrous to entertain.

SO WHAT SHOULD WE DO

As it’s so open to misrepresentation I suggest stopping Red Handing unless you’ve got a glove. Also, I myself never join in God Save The Queen in the pub or at the ground unless a/ there’s a band to provide suitable accompaniment at the start of the game or b/ if in the pub it’s at the end of the night to finish off the evening.

As a former Boys Brigade boy I always stand to attention (none of that hand on heart pish) with the thumbs pointing down the seams of your trousers and I don’t recognise ‘No Surrender’ as part of the wording either. If you’re going to sing the National Anthem do it properly or don’t do it at all - that’s being disrespectful. You have been flung out of the Netherton St. Matthew’s 252 for it.

Lastly, Paul’s article finishes with him saying that Rangers have ‘made public their dissociation and annoyance with the behaviour of the fans.†Rather than doing the difficult job of presenting the truth the club join in the media’s attack on us once again. Of course, not having Rangers fans with an appreciation of the club’s history is yet again shown to be a major handicap when the club is under attack.

GRANDMASTER SUCK

[Gaffbear 4,104]

Manticore

I couldn't have put it better myself. :beer2:

[Blue Stars Bearette 1]

yeah chap with white t-shirt on at halftime stuck out a mile, whit a fucking dick he looked!!!

kick his ass out of Ibrox the utter twat

[THEFISH 0]

Why are you guyz explaining yourselves to those barstewards...tell them tae GTF