Captains Role- 3 questions

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

I have to wonder what people who were against Barry being Captain were thinking when he lifted the SPL trophy at Easter Road, when he guided us to the Scotish Cup win over Celtic and various other trophies in his time as Captain. I doubt you slated him then.

What i don't understand is why people like Alba and Calger want to come on here and slate the guy just because Le Guen brought it up. It was the same with Boydy. When Le Guen said that he didn't do enough everyone jumped on the bandwagon and got on his back. Though the season previously nobody cared about his work rate because he banged in the goals.

It is clear Le Guen used Barry to fit his own agenda. He thought that if he got rid of the guy, who he didn't like from the off, then he would be able to give Murray a dilemma on who to back. He would either bin Fergie and Le Guen would then see it as one less problem to worry about and a little extra money. Other wise he would bin PLG and for him that would mean that he could walk away with an excuse and say that the reason he left was not results but that the Chairman valued Barry over him. He also knew that by doing this to Barry he would tarnish his reputation with some Gers fans and therefore ruin his rapport with them.

So i ask again. Why is it that just because PLG brought this up you automatically believe what you hear and think that you should just slate him too? Or have you just had a gradge against the guy for years?

[snoopyboymason 13]

Not one of you was ever against Fergie being captain before so why are you against it now?

Because he has considered himself bigger than the club.

Who does he think he is to disobey the manager's on field instructions ?

Who does he think he is to organise a social function against the manager's wishes ?

Are you happy that Fergie spoke to the likes of Peter McGuire ? (aka Martin) a guy who cant conceal his haterd of Rangers ?

He is our best player by far....and certainly the most iconic Ranger at the club. That does not mean he is entitled to flaunt the manager's rules.

What if every player went squealing to the press every time things did not go their way ?

He is not captain material

could'nt have said it better

KeepBelieving1873 answered for me.

The conclusion is clear. Some people will never like him. No matter how much we big him up and give the facts, people will never like him and for that reason we'll never agree.

As long as we all still love our team and are together that's all that matters.

WATP!! (All of us) <bouncy> <bouncy> <bouncy>

i agree i have been called a prick and a tim because i have an opinion this is meant to be a forum for discussing rangers so there will be dissagrements but there is no need for abuse

[Calgereh 1]

For your obvious reluctance to see Barry Ferguson return as our club Captain the way the majority of your fellow Gers fans do. Can you tell me, in your opinion:

--What makes a good captain in your eyes?

--What Barry does that makes him an inadequate captain?

--Who at Rangers would you prefer to see as captain?

A good captain:

In particular order.

A leader.

Team player.

Leads by example.

Does not cuase disruption in the dressing room.

Follows orders of his manager.

He is not an adequate captain at this moment because:

He did not follow orders.

Caused disruption inthe dressing room.

He needs a break as he has been trying to do it all.

I think he would become a better player if he was not the captain.

As for the new captain.

I would pick Prso.

[Albahighlander 0]

I have to wonder what people who were against Barry being Captain were thinking when he lifted the SPL trophy at Easter Road, when he guided us to the Scotish Cup win over Celtic and various other trophies in his time as Captain. I doubt you slated him then.

What i don't understand is why people like Alba and Calger want to come on here and slate the guy just because Le Guen brought it up. It was the same with Boydy. When Le Guen said that he didn't do enough everyone jumped on the bandwagon and got on his back. Though the season previously nobody cared about his work rate because he banged in the goals.

It is clear Le Guen used Barry to fit his own agenda. He thought that if he got rid of the guy, who he didn't like from the off, then he would be able to give Murray a dilemma on who to back. He would either bin Fergie and Le Guen would then see it as one less problem to worry about and a little extra money. Other wise he would bin PLG and for him that would mean that he could walk away with an excuse and say that the reason he left was not results but that the Chairman valued Barry over him. He also knew that by doing this to Barry he would tarnish his reputation with some Gers fans and therefore ruin his rapport with them.

So i ask again. Why is it that just because PLG brought this up you automatically believe what you hear and think that you should just slate him too? Or have you just had a gradge against the guy for years?

My beef with Ferguson started as soon as he undermined the club by AGAIN running to tell tales to the press behind everyone's back - a disgrace to the cptain's role at Ibrox.

[evilcockney 4]

they need respect from all the players on the field

for whatever the reasons he wasnt getting it

I think you're referring to the manager when you say this but if you do mean the Captain:

Tell what players at Rangers do not respect Barry Ferguson? Name but one, I'm entrigued.

i meant captain, some off the foreign boys didnt responed to his style,

im not saying barrys wrong not everyones the same as the tougher players

this leads to a lack of respect

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

My beef with Ferguson started as soon as he undermined the club by AGAIN running to tell tales to the press behind everyone's back - a disgrace to the cptain's role at Ibrox.

Exactly....

[snoopyboymason 13]

My beef with Ferguson started as soon as he undermined the club by AGAIN running to tell tales to the press behind everyone's back - a disgrace to the cptain's role at Ibrox.

Exactly....

[KeepBelieving1872 64]

My beef with Ferguson started as soon as he undermined the club by AGAIN running to tell tales to the press behind everyone's back - a disgrace to the cptain's role at Ibrox.

Exactly....

Have you got any examples of Fergie running to the press???

The importance of captaincy issue first arose from a comment be Le Guen and Ferguson responded to questions about what Le Guen had said.

Ferguson being stripped of the captaincy - he phoned Iain King etc who was his biographer and friend. However this was not something the club wanted to keep quiet.....everyone was going to find out he had been dropped when the team wa named at Firpark.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

My beef with Ferguson started as soon as he undermined the club by AGAIN running to tell tales to the press behind everyone's back - a disgrace to the cptain's role at Ibrox.

Exactly....

Have you got any examples of Fergie running to the press???

The importance of captaincy issue first arose from a comment be Le Guen and Ferguson responded to questions about what Le Guen had said.

Ferguson being stripped of the captaincy - he phoned Iain King etc who was his biographer and friend. However this was not something the club wanted to keep quiet.....everyone was going to find out he had been dropped when the team wa named at Firpark.

Read what Iain King (Fergie's biographer surprise surprise) said or Peter Martin.

Fergie phoned Iain King at the Sun at 0245...30 mins after his meeting with PLG.

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

My beef with Ferguson started as soon as he undermined the club by AGAIN running to tell tales to the press behind everyone's back - a disgrace to the cptain's role at Ibrox

We went over this again last night. You said that he ran to Iain King and Peter Martin after he was stripped of his captaincy. But it is no wonder that he would go to Iain King seing as he is his Biographer and close friend. And Peter Maertin was at Murray Park when Fergie came out and Fergie never said a word to him but just looked "distraught and had tears in his eyes".

If this is the only reason you are against Fergie then you need to get off his back because Barry hasn't given 1 quote to the press so far and the only we way we know that he is gutted is because of Iain King and John Viola. And surely you cannot blame him for talking to them can you?

[Ace 3,556]

Because he has considered himself bigger than the club.

When exactly did he do that ? Is this when he was asked by McLeish to play through the pain barrier at the end of his season, when Fergie took pain killing injections and played on against all medical advice and putting his own career at risk. Is this when PLG cried out for Barry to return to the team at least a momnth ahead of his forcasted return date?

Who does he think he is to disobey the manager's on field instructions ?

This point is aimed at the St Mirren game where he was instructed to play in a forward role, well i'm sure i would want my most talented palyer on the ball and considering that the defence were bloody missing and wouldn't take the ball from McGregor (even when HE was screaming at them to show for him) ... well, how are we supposed to play ... watch the golaie punt the ball into the middle of the park and PREY that it falls to a blue shirt??

Who does he think he is to organise a social function against the manager's wishes ?

This story is bollocks, it was stated already by tha management team that this outing to Newcastle was organsied with the blessing of them & over 20 players attended (personally, i think that it should have been more, how can a team play together on ther park if they don't wan't to be in each others company off it)

Are you happy that Fergie spoke to the likes of Peter McGuire ? (aka Martin) a guy who cant conceal his haterd of Rangers ?

Isn;t it true that Ferguson has a column for a daily paper and has NEVER availed himself to actually go into print on any of the rumours that abounded, even when PLG slagged him off a few weeks ago.

He is our best player by far....and certainly the most iconic Ranger at the club. That does not mean he is entitled to flaunt the manager's rules.

Can someone actually define what those rules are, what did PLG say lay down that he broke .... no-one knows so how do WE know that he broke ANY rules???

What if every player went squealing to the press every time things did not go their way ?

See above piont ... i have never seen Fergie quoted, but then again i don't really read the rags.

He is not captain material

Sorry but if going into a dressing room at half time & shouting at those who are obviousl;y not pulling their weight (which we as fans do for the WHOLE 90mins) makes him unfit to be a captain .... if putting in a shift & actually trying to make something happen on the pitch when it is evident to all around (again ... remember we have all being saying how p*sh we have been) makeshim unfit to be captain ...

WELL ....F*CK ME if Gough, Butcher et all were all shi*ty Captains.

[KeepBelieving1872 64]

My beef with Ferguson started as soon as he undermined the club by AGAIN running to tell tales to the press behind everyone's back - a disgrace to the cptain's role at Ibrox.

Exactly....

Have you got any examples of Fergie running to the press???

The importance of captaincy issue first arose from a comment be Le Guen and Ferguson responded to questions about what Le Guen had said.

Ferguson being stripped of the captaincy - he phoned Iain King etc who was his biographer and friend. However this was not something the club wanted to keep quiet.....everyone was going to find out he had been dropped when the team wa named at Firpark.

Read what Iain King (Fergie's biographer surprise surprise) said or Peter Martin.

Fergie phoned Iain King at the Sun at 0245...30 mins after his meeting with PLG.

yeah and i said in my original reply that Iain King was his BIOGRAPHER AND CLOSE FRIEND. plus this story was going to get out eventually when the team was named!!!!!

What i asked in my previous response was to give me other examples of ferguson running to the press???????

Ferguson is 28 and been at rangers for his entire career (minus 2 years) yet i cannot think of any examples???

So basically the response that ferguson is a disgrace to the captaincy of rangers because he continually runs to the press behind rangers back is an utter load of rubbish.......spouted by people who simply just don't like ferguson.

So any examples???????

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

yeah and i said in my original reply that Iain King was his BIOGRAPHER AND CLOSE FRIEND. plus this story was going to get out eventually when the team was named!!!!! 

What i asked in my previous response was to give me other examples of ferguson running to the press???????

Ferguson is 28 and been at rangers for his entire career (minus 2 years) yet i cannot think of any examples???

So basically the response that ferguson is a disgrace to the captaincy of rangers because he continually runs to the press behind rangers back is an utter load of rubbish.......spouted by people who simply just don't like ferguson.

So any examples???????

I have been trying to tell them this for days now but they just keep going back to this same argument that he is not fit to be Captain because he runs to the press. Iknow and you know that this is a load of bull but just let them keep on having their grudg against Barry. Meanwhile we will go to Ibrox and support ALL of our players. Having agendas against you own players is just pathetic. Some people need to get a grip.

[Albahighlander 0]

My beef with Ferguson started as soon as he undermined the club by AGAIN running to tell tales to the press behind everyone's back - a disgrace to the cptain's role at Ibrox.

Exactly....

Have you got any examples of Fergie running to the press???

The importance of captaincy issue first arose from a comment be Le Guen and Ferguson responded to questions about what Le Guen had said.

Ferguson being stripped of the captaincy - he phoned Iain King etc who was his biographer and friend. However this was not something the club wanted to keep quiet.....everyone was going to find out he had been dropped when the team wa named at Firpark.

Read what Iain King (Fergie's biographer surprise surprise) said or Peter Martin.

Fergie phoned Iain King at the Sun at 0245...30 mins after his meeting with PLG.

yeah and i said in my original reply that Iain King was his BIOGRAPHER AND CLOSE FRIEND. plus this story was going to get out eventually when the team was named!!!!!

What i asked in my previous response was to give me other examples of ferguson running to the press???????

Ferguson is 28 and been at rangers for his entire career (minus 2 years) yet i cannot think of any examples???

So basically the response that ferguson is a disgrace to the captaincy of rangers because he continually runs to the press behind rangers back is an utter load of rubbish.......spouted by people who simply just don't like ferguson.

So any examples???????

The captaincy issue a few weeks ago - the |Ferguison's leaked their reaction the press

Monday - Ferguson phones Peter Martin at 2.30 p.m.

Fergusonj phones Iain King at 2.45 p.m.

He undermines the club by sneaking behind their back to release his version of things.

Ferguson a disgrace to the Rangers greats

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Because he has considered himself bigger than the club.

When exactly did he do that ? Is this when he was asked by McLeish to play through the pain barrier at the end of his season, when Fergie took pain killing injections and played on against all medical advice and putting his own career at risk. Is this when PLG cried out for Barry to return to the team at least a momnth ahead of his forcasted return date?

When he decided to test the resolve of the manager by going against his instructions....by splitting and dividing the support

Who does he think he is to disobey the manager's on field instructions ?

This point is aimed at the St Mirren game where he was instructed to play in a forward role, well i'm sure i would want my most talented palyer on the ball and considering that the defence were bloody missing and wouldn't take the ball from McGregor (even when HE was screaming at them to show for him) ... well, how are we supposed to play ... watch the golaie punt the ball into the middle of the park and PREY that it falls to a blue shirt??

So its ok that Fergie makes tactical decisions against the manager's instructions ? Im sure no manager would tolerate this.

Who does he think he is to organise a social function against the manager's wishes ?

This story is bollocks, it was stated already by tha management team that this outing to Newcastle was organsied with the blessing of them & over 20 players attended (personally, i think that it should have been more, how can a team play together on ther park if they don't wan't to be in each others company off it)

Thats contrary to Svensson's recent interview.

Are you happy that Fergie spoke to the likes of Peter McGuire ? (aka Martin) a guy who cant conceal his haterd of Rangers ?

Isn;t it true that Ferguson has a column for a daily paper and has NEVER availed himself to actually go into print on any of the rumours that abounded, even when PLG slagged him off a few weeks ago.

Are you kidding ? Where have you been for the last 24 hours....Fergie phoned King at 0245pm...did he really expect a journo from the Sun to be discrete about the biggest story in Scottish football. ? No he didnt...you know it...I know it...and Fergie knew it. Peter Martin stated he had spoken to Barry on the phone..

He is our best player by far....and certainly the most iconic Ranger at the club. That does not mean he is entitled to flaunt the manager's rules.

Can someone actually define what those rules are, what did PLG say lay down that he broke .... no-one knows so how do WE know that he broke ANY rules???

Try PLG's quote of "adversity from within"

What if every player went squealing to the press every time things did not go their way ?

See above factual reply

He is not captain material

Sorry but if going into a dressing room at half time & shouting at those who are obviousl;y not pulling their weight (which we as fans do for the WHOLE 90mins) makes him unfit to be a captain .... if putting in a shift & actually trying to make something happen on the pitch when it is evident to all around (again ... remember we have all being saying how p*sh we have been) makeshim unfit to be captain ...

Nothing to do with him shouting at players not pulling their weight...

Everything him to do with conducting a tiff with the manager via the very public spectacle of the media. ..of which I may add PLG was equally as guilty.

The pair of them have made a mockery of our club...Neither PLG nor Ferguson are fit to represent our club in their former capacities.

[KeepBelieving1872 64]

My beef with Ferguson started as soon as he undermined the club by AGAIN running to tell tales to the press behind everyone's back - a disgrace to the cptain's role at Ibrox.

Exactly....

Have you got any examples of Fergie running to the press???

The importance of captaincy issue first arose from a comment be Le Guen and Ferguson responded to questions about what Le Guen had said.

Ferguson being stripped of the captaincy - he phoned Iain King etc who was his biographer and friend. However this was not something the club wanted to keep quiet.....everyone was going to find out he had been dropped when the team wa named at Firpark.

Read what Iain King (Fergie's biographer surprise surprise) said or Peter Martin.

Fergie phoned Iain King at the Sun at 0245...30 mins after his meeting with PLG.

yeah and i said in my original reply that Iain King was his BIOGRAPHER AND CLOSE FRIEND. plus this story was going to get out eventually when the team was named!!!!!

What i asked in my previous response was to give me other examples of ferguson running to the press???????

Ferguson is 28 and been at rangers for his entire career (minus 2 years) yet i cannot think of any examples???

So basically the response that ferguson is a disgrace to the captaincy of rangers because he continually runs to the press behind rangers back is an utter load of rubbish.......spouted by people who simply just don't like ferguson.

So any examples???????

The captaincy issue a few weeks ago - the |Ferguison's leaked their reaction the press

Monday - Ferguson phones Peter Martin at 2.30 p.m.

Fergusonj phones Iain King at 2.45 p.m.

He undermines the club by sneaking behind their back to release his version of things.

Ferguson a disgrace to the Rangers greats

Yeah and those 2 examples are the two i identified in my original response and defended Fergies reaction.....please read my original post.

Importance of captaincy.....so he leaked it eh? I listened to Clyde 1 on the day of the old firm game and peter martin said ferguson was asked if Le guen had spoken to him about the importance of the captaincy.Ferguson said no. This doesnt sound like leaking to me!!! If thats the case Le Guen can be accused of leaking information to the press every time he goes into a press conference!!!

So apart from those 2 invalid examples you have previously named....any others????????????????

i didnt think so

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

So any examples???????

Who do you think briefed the press regarding PLG's take on the captaincy role ?

Are you really that naive ?

You can think what you like about my feelings for BF. But you would be wrong.

Since the brief facts have emerged I have been of the opinion that both PLG and BF should leave our club. Neither has maintained the standards I expect of a Ranger.

[Albahighlander 0]

My beef with Ferguson started as soon as he undermined the club by AGAIN running to tell tales to the press behind everyone's back - a disgrace to the cptain's role at Ibrox.

Exactly....

Have you got any examples of Fergie running to the press???

The importance of captaincy issue first arose from a comment be Le Guen and Ferguson responded to questions about what Le Guen had said.

Ferguson being stripped of the captaincy - he phoned Iain King etc who was his biographer and friend. However this was not something the club wanted to keep quiet.....everyone was going to find out he had been dropped when the team wa named at Firpark.

Read what Iain King (Fergie's biographer surprise surprise) said or Peter Martin.

Fergie phoned Iain King at the Sun at 0245...30 mins after his meeting with PLG.

yeah and i said in my original reply that Iain King was his BIOGRAPHER AND CLOSE FRIEND. plus this story was going to get out eventually when the team was named!!!!!

What i asked in my previous response was to give me other examples of ferguson running to the press???????

Ferguson is 28 and been at rangers for his entire career (minus 2 years) yet i cannot think of any examples???

So basically the response that ferguson is a disgrace to the captaincy of rangers because he continually runs to the press behind rangers back is an utter load of rubbish.......spouted by people who simply just don't like ferguson.

So any examples???????

The captaincy issue a few weeks ago - the |Ferguison's leaked their reaction the press

Monday - Ferguson phones Peter Martin at 2.30 p.m.

Fergusonj phones Iain King at 2.45 p.m.

He undermines the club by sneaking behind their back to release his version of things.

Ferguson a disgrace to the Rangers greats

Yeah and those 2 examples are the two i identified in my original response and defended Fergies reaction.....please read my original post.

Importance of captaincy.....so he leaked it eh? I listened to Clyde 1 on the day of the old firm game and peter martin said ferguson was asked if Le guen had spoken to him about the importance of the captaincy.Ferguson said no. This doesnt sound like leaking to me!!! If thats the case Le Guen can be accused of leaking information to the press every time he goes into a press conference!!!

So apart from those 2 invalid examples you have previously named....any others????????????????

i didnt think so

you are correct peter Martin did ask Barry about this on the day of the old firm game

Why did he ask him that ?

Because it was in the papers that morning

where did that come from ?

you've guessed it.

[Ted E Bayer 485]

Running about shouting at everyone else does not make you inspirational - getting players to play above themselves is inspirational

I think you're getting your captains role mixed up with the managers role. There is no point in contuning this discussion as the same things are being said over and over and the majority of it's Gibberish.

Barry undermined the manager therefore he's not worthy of being captain, Barry split the dressing room therefore he undermined the manager. Again and again we ask for proof of this. In what way did he undermine the manager?? in what way did he split the dressing room?? A question none of you can answer, where's the proof with any fact of incidents or quotations?

What PLG classes as undermining for all we know (because this is all speculation) could be Barry trying to gee the players up in the dressing room, give them a lift. We simply don't know. It may be that PLG doesn't like "gee'ing" up players, it may be that he likes to talk quietly to them and try to get them working again, you could call it a clash of personalities, you can call it clash of cultures, we will never know. But for you lot to take the stance that Barry was wrong for "possibly" gee'ing up the players and therefore doesnt deserve to be captain is ludicrous when again, you just don't know.

I'm willing to take Barry's side simply because PLG seemed to be inadequate in every other decision he made whilst at Rangers from:

Tactics

Tansfers

formations

team selections

I could go on and on..

partay

[loyalandtrueblue 69]

I'm amazed that Barrys leadership qualities are criticised? <nooo>

If his leadership qualities were that bad then why did/do so many top professional players who have played with him have always stated that he is the ideal man for the captains job and an influential figure on the pitch and training ground never mind a great ambassador for the club?

[Germanybluenose 0]

Captain's role - one answer - certainly not someone who the manager never rated from day one - not a player who has never started a game all season - but all of a sudden will be a great Rangers captain - aye right!! - discussion over

[Ted E Bayer 485]

haha good post gbn. The strange thing is most of these guys disputing Barry not worthy of the captaincy are on the side of PLG or at least take his word for "adversity within" and "splits in the dressing room" and "not obeying PLG's orders".

Yet they seem to accept your valid point that PLG thinks the captaincy isn't important and therefore gives it to the fringe player that is Gavin Rae. They probably agree with that too.

[Guest marvsbeliever]

I don't know if this has been said elsewhere apologies if it has. I heard from another SPL player, admittedly now with another team, who is still mates with some of his ex-colleagues at Murray Park that the undermining wasn't the not following instructions personally but telling other younger palyers to ignore some of the instruction they were given. this is what got back to Le Guen and what the undermining bit is all about not about telling Sebo he's shite or whatever

Shoot me down I don't care but I had heard prior to all this blowing up (mid december at a night out if i remeber correctly) from another ex-ger of BFs contempt for Le Guen and most of his singings - I asked the question directly. (a popular view I know, but certainly not helpful when you are trying to work with someone)

[Ted E Bayer 485]

but telling other younger palyers to ignore some of the instruction they were given.

No offense but..... <piss>

[polar bear 0]

a good captain a leader of men someone who leads by example on the pitch and off it barry should not be captain imo because he left through his own choice when he was in his prime to a liitle english club and when things are going wrong points the finger at the other players imo the captain should be dado prso till the end of the season the stevie smith

Dado prso? get real man.