The Forgotten Ones...

[Boab 73]

Bravo to the very first post of True Blue by the way

[Blue Stars Bearette 1]

eloquent post ...times are a changing thats for sure ..Spiers has really riled me big time with his nazi comments

<angryy>

[Guest Manticore]

?Well when I was younger I attended a European match and we had a huge card display before the game?one of the biggest ever?with Saltires and Union Flags?it looked magnificent, but afterwards all the press would say was that Ibrox looked like a Nuremberg Rally?

Reading that pissed me off BIG TIME

Was it Hugh Keevins who said it?

Speirs.

I think it was McNee who first said it, in NOTW, then keevins repeated it on RC

Excellent post D'Artagnan, getting the usual response from the usual suspects.

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

[Guest orangpendek]

old labour changed into new labour

british empire changed into commonwealth

warring european states changed into european union

belief in witches changed into the age of reason

fear of 'funny foreign food' changed into a varied diet

brougham traps changed into automobiles

bows and arrows changed into automatic weapons

apartheid loving voortrekkers changed into democrats

cheese and onion changed from a green to a blue bag

guess what my point is? things change. not always for the better and i can quite understand why some fans, older perhaps and a tad reactionary, would wish that they did not. to quote the queen's speech of a few years back, 'the world is changing. perhaps the speed of change is bewildering for some of us.' (not verbatim but you get the drift). nontheless, change is always happening and i fail to see why rangers should be held exempt from this.

[Guest Manticore]

old labour changed into new labour

And their membership halved.

Good comparison.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Sorry mate clean out of lectures on Social Science, but going by your replay I think you`ve got the idea what Society is

Same old same old...

Plenty of comments but unable to sustain them by way of debate...or to answers questions posed to you in respect of your comments.

Guys like you are happy for a political party with its own sectarian skeletons in the cupboard...to dictate to bears how they should think and behave.

There may come a day when Rangers fans bow to political pressure from hypocrites.

But this will not be the day

There may come a time when Rangers fans allow their beloved club to be demonised and castigated unfairly by a Rangers hating press with their own agenda.

But this will not be the day.

There may come a day when the drive and determination to defend our club is forced out of us.

But this will not be the day.

[dummiesoot 16,049]

I am not British I am Scottish, however I am also aware that many supporters have deep rooted British feelings, and fair do's that is your stand point and the Club's as a whole I believe. The witch hunt that is currently going on really irks because when Celtic go on about Irish roots, they get applauded. I am all for change but change needs to happen from both sides, not just one. There is no balance to the current state of affairs, we are the demons and Celtic are the cheeky cheerful chappies form across the water.

I could elaborate more, however that is a brief summary of my view on things.

Also can I congratulate many of the posters on this thread as it has been fantastic reading.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

I am not British I am Scottish, however I am also aware that many supporters have deep rooted British feelings, and fair do's that is your stand point and the Club's as a whole I believe. The witch hunt that is currently going on really irks because when Celtic go on about Irish roots, they get applauded. I am all for change but change needs to happen from both sides, not just one. There is no balance to the current state of affairs, we are the demons and Celtic are the cheeky cheerful chappies form across the water.

I could elaborate more, however that is a brief summary of my view on things.

Also can I congratulate many of the posters on this thread as it has been fantastic reading.

Thats very fair comment dummiesoot....each to his own regarding politics....all that is asked for is a sense of balance and fairness.

[minstral 5,375]

?Well when I was younger I attended a European match and we had a huge card display before the game?one of the biggest ever?with Saltires and Union Flags?it looked magnificent, but afterwards all the press would say was that Ibrox looked like a Nuremberg Rally?

Reading that pissed me off BIG TIME

Was it Hugh Keevins who said it?

Speirs.

I think it was McNee who first said it, in NOTW, then keevins repeated it on RC

Excellent post D'Artagnan, getting the usual response from the usual suspects.

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

manticore there is plenty in our support who are blind and happy to sit back and watch the media and newspapers, call our club anything they like and will not fight back, they keep going on about rangers songs should only be sung, but its been tried with the blue book, but their was still no atmosphere. also the loudest songs you hear are no surrender, and the sash and no matter how much spin you put on it, the majority of our fans are proud of their protestant culture..

[Guest orangpendek]

see this arguement, the one that goes if you don't fight the media you're happy to see rangers run into the ground, it's crap!

i fight the media in the best way possible - i do not and will never buy the daily record or the sun as they are absolute rubbish and, as several people point out, clearly no fans of rangers. so what ? where does it say that sports writers have to be fair? come on into the real world people.

there's no point at all in constantly slating the media for being nasty to rangers then buying their product. hit them where it hurts, in their pocket and circulation figures.

as for the songs mentioned being sung because they are representations of pride in our protestant culture, i sing 'em coz i like to hear a big noise. that's the only reason. now i realise it's being taken as support for a cause i don't identify with, i'll stop singing. 'if you're happy and you know it clap your hands' for me.

anyway, i guess i've had a fair shot at this one. a good debate without abuse, this is what these boards are for imo.

[stevenage bear 5]

Dartagnan that is a great read mate.

From the responses I guess it mostly us older bears that see where you are coming from.

If we dont defend our traditions this could so well be so many of us on here in a few years.

WATP

[Boab 73]

So what would steveange see as our traditions then?

[minstral 5,375]

So what would steveange see as our traditions then?

i think THE FORGOTTEN ONES explains it all you dont have to agree with it, but lots of our fans do.

[californiadreamin52 339]

As you had already asked and answer your own question on society it was obviously a rather redundant question you had asked . The article was more of an emotive rants hence the nature of the first reply. I personally just want to go along to Ibrox watch a game of football and support the team I?ve loved for the passed 50 + plus years?. nothing more ?.except a winning Rangers team.

[minstral 5,375]

As you had already asked and answer your own question on society it was obviously a rather redundant question you had asked . The article was more of an emotional rants hence the nature of the first reply. I personally just want to go along to Ibrox watch a game of football and support the team I?ve loved for the passed 50 + plus years?. nothing more ?.except a winning Rangers team.

well you will know the songs that we are on about have been sung for over 50 years.

[californiadreamin52 339]

As  you had already  asked  and  answer  your  own  question  on society  it was obviously  a rather redundant question  you had  asked . The article was more of an emotional rants hence  the nature of the first reply. I personally just  want to go along  to Ibrox  watch a game of  football  and support the team  I?ve  loved for the passed  50 + plus years?.  nothing  more ?.except a winning Rangers team.

well you will know the songs that we are on about have been sung for over 50 years.

I do in fact I can probably still play most on the according if I had an according. Strangely thats the only songs I was ever taught

[evenstevens 907]

Sorry mate clean out of lectures on Social Science, but going by your replay I think you`ve got the idea what Society is

Same old same old...

Plenty of comments but unable to sustain them by way of debate...or to answers questions posed to you in respect of your comments.

Guys like you are happy for a political party with its own sectarian skeletons in the cupboard...to dictate to bears how they should think and behave.

There may come a day when Rangers fans bow to political pressure from hypocrites.

But this will not be the day

There may come a time when Rangers fans allow their beloved club to be demonised and castigated unfairly by a Rangers hating press with their own agenda.

But this will not be the day.

There may come a day when the drive and determination to defend our club is forced out of us.

But this will not be the day.

I'll wait until Sunday to go to church and listen to a sermon because today is not the day......

self fulfilling prophecy there evens....

evens

[Ace 3,556]

There was a time when sending 5 yr old kids up a chimney was acceptable, It's not now.

There was a time when drinking & driving was acceptable, It's not now.

There was a time when beating the wife was acceptable. It's not now.

You get my drift here ....

I have been a Rangers fan for over 30 years now, i have been to Ibrox many times in the past, season ticket holder & not. I for one, could not sing the Sash, Derry's Walls or any other song of that ilk .... because i grew up in a family that never had the background of those songs or that sentiment.

I never attended a supporters bus or a pub that had bands playing, i never walked alongside the Orange Walk (even though i had friends who played in the various bands).

Does that make me any less of a Rangers fan ... i think not (although others may disagree).

I go along to watch 90 minutes of football, get lost in the passion of supporting my team, i sing the songs that i know & ignore the ones that i don't.

Personally, watching Rangers has nothing to do with Religion or Nationality ... for me Rangers is my team & my passion.

[loyalandtrueblue 69]

D'Artagnan once again an excellent and thought provoking post

For quite a number of years now i have witnessed a backlash against Rangers and we the supporters from large segments of the media and sadly i have also watched fellow Bears starting to believe the myth that they portray about us.

For some reason we are an acceptable target within the media and that has spread to the general public.

What is sad, as i have said, is that some fellow Bears have started to believe it <nooo>

Yes we should all be proud of our traditions and hold our heads high but a message to the PC brigade, do not confuse that with bigotry or sectarianism on our part.

I am just proud of My club,My traditions and My principles

[ali.f 0]

lurkland calling - what a great thread, whilst the times they r a changing and i don't think that many will disagree that it isn't really acceptable to be up to our knees etc anymore, nothing can erase the memories of many years of feeling the hairs on the back of my neck (not my hand I might add) rise when you heard the opening cry of hullo hullo when watching the bears win.

what we need to do is find new anthems that give the younger fans today that same feeling I used to get. If I were to be honest as a young lad the lyrics werent the issue it was noising up the opposition and letting them know the bears were in town

[polar bear 0]

Sorry mate clean out of lectures on Social Science, but going by your replay I think you`ve got the idea what Society is

California,yer dreamin.and your'e light years away from debating D'artagnan.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Sorry mate clean out of lectures on Social Science, but going by your replay I think you`ve got the idea what Society is

California,yer dreamin.and your'e light years away from debating D'artagnan.

Each to their own PB each to their own.....I do think it would be helpful if some of the posters on here were to expand on some of their answers...and I dont just mean California by that comment.

[Boab 73]

There was a time when sending 5 yr old kids up a chimney was acceptable, It's not now.

There was a time when drinking & driving was acceptable, It's not now.

There was a time when beating the wife was acceptable. It's not now.

You get my drift here ....

I have been a Rangers fan for over 30 years now, i have been to Ibrox many times in the past, season ticket holder & not. I for one, could not sing the Sash, Derry's Walls or any other song of that ilk .... because i grew up in a family that never had the background of those songs or that sentiment.

I never attended a supporters bus or a pub that had bands playing, i never walked alongside the Orange Walk (even though i had friends who played in the various bands).

Does that make me any less of a Rangers fan ... i think not (although others may disagree).

I go along to watch 90 minutes of football, get lost in the passion of supporting my team, i sing the songs that i know & ignore the ones that i don't.

Personally, watching Rangers has nothing to do with Religion or Nationality ... for me Rangers is my team & my passion.

Here, here

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

There was a time when sending 5 yr old kids up a chimney was acceptable, It's not now.

There was a time when drinking & driving was acceptable, It's not now.

There was a time when beating the wife was acceptable. It's not now.

You get my drift here ....

I have been a Rangers fan for over 30 years now, i have been to Ibrox many times in the past, season ticket holder & not. I for one, could not sing the Sash, Derry's Walls or any other song of that ilk .... because i grew up in a family that never had the background of those songs or that sentiment.

I never attended a supporters bus or a pub that had bands playing, i never walked alongside the Orange Walk (even though i had friends who played in the various bands).

Does that make me any less of a Rangers fan ... i think not (although others may disagree).

I go along to watch 90 minutes of football, get lost in the passion of supporting my team, i sing the songs that i know & ignore the ones that i don't.

Personally, watching Rangers has nothing to do with Religion or Nationality ... for me Rangers is my team & my passion.

And no-one Ace is asking you to sing those songs. And as you correctly point out...by not singing them, you are not any more or any less a Rangers supporter.

However given your examples of the chimey kids/drink/driving and also the songs you have quoted....are you inferring that these are no longer acceptable at Ibrox. ?

And if you are can I ask you why ?

[Guest Manticore]

I really do hate when people - it seems manticore is one among others - that think `im a rangers fan, im protestant but oh I dont go to church` and would probably ferget Wales if somebody asked them (sa a snap question) what the countries where in the UK.

Ideal Broomloan I've just noticed this comment, what do you mean by it?

BTW you might notice, since you seem to think you are an expert on me, that on numerous occasions I have pointed out that I am not a Protestant.

I have also on numerous occasions pointed out to people which countries are in GB, and which are in the UK.

Not being a Protestant does not mean that I buy in to the 'Protestant = Bigot' campaign at large in Scotland today.