The Big Jock Knew Thread

[Ibroxblue 122]

Right Bears, i have never been involved in singing this song and as time goes it has run its course.

It is unfair to attack Big Jock as he is unable to defend himself and i really do believe that he would have acted as soon as he knew.

HOWEVER

OH CELTIC KNEW OH CELTIC KNEW :pipehorse:

Oh aye he acted alright.

Joined in the cover up.

It's so unfair to point it out isn't it?

When the other lot name a stand after him and campaign to get him knighted we should sit back and watch should we?

Stein kicked Torbett out of Celtic Boys Club so he did act.

Thankfully the BJK thing is generally dying away as we heard last weekend. Whatever your thoughts on it, it's far from a fit thing to be chanting about and it does have the potential to hurt our reputation further.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Right Bears, i have never been involved in singing this song and as time goes it has run its course.

It is unfair to attack Big Jock as he is unable to defend himself and i really do believe that he would have acted as soon as he knew.

HOWEVER

OH CELTIC KNEW OH CELTIC KNEW :pipehorse:

Oh aye he acted alright.

Joined in the cover up.

It's so unfair to point it out isn't it?

When the other lot name a stand after him and campaign to get him knighted we should sit back and watch should we?

Stein kicked Torbett out of Celtic Boys Club so he did act.

Aye kicked torbett out then covered up his crimes.

[Jelle1880 234]

And then years later Torbett was involved with Septic FC once again.

[Ibroxblue 122]

Right Bears, i have never been involved in singing this song and as time goes it has run its course.

It is unfair to attack Big Jock as he is unable to defend himself and i really do believe that he would have acted as soon as he knew.

HOWEVER

OH CELTIC KNEW OH CELTIC KNEW :pipehorse:

Oh aye he acted alright.

Joined in the cover up.

It's so unfair to point it out isn't it?

When the other lot name a stand after him and campaign to get him knighted we should sit back and watch should we?

Stein kicked Torbett out of Celtic Boys Club so he did act.

Aye kicked torbett out then covered up his crimes.

You got any proof he actively covered things up?

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Right Bears, i have never been involved in singing this song and as time goes it has run its course.

It is unfair to attack Big Jock as he is unable to defend himself and i really do believe that he would have acted as soon as he knew.

HOWEVER

OH CELTIC KNEW OH CELTIC KNEW :pipehorse:

Oh aye he acted alright.

Joined in the cover up.

It's so unfair to point it out isn't it?

When the other lot name a stand after him and campaign to get him knighted we should sit back and watch should we?

Stein kicked Torbett out of Celtic Boys Club so he did act.

Aye kicked torbett out then covered up his crimes.

You got any proof he actively covered things up?

Have you got proof that he kicked out torbett (as you assert)?

And why?

What does the word 'actively' mean in this context?

By not reporting the crimes he participated in the cover up - a criminal conspiracy if ever there was one.

Are you his lovechild or something?

You seem to love him so much.

[Jelle1880 234]

Right Bears, i have never been involved in singing this song and as time goes it has run its course.

It is unfair to attack Big Jock as he is unable to defend himself and i really do believe that he would have acted as soon as he knew.

HOWEVER

OH CELTIC KNEW OH CELTIC KNEW :pipehorse:

Oh aye he acted alright.

Joined in the cover up.

It's so unfair to point it out isn't it?

When the other lot name a stand after him and campaign to get him knighted we should sit back and watch should we?

Stein kicked Torbett out of Celtic Boys Club so he did act.

Aye kicked torbett out then covered up his crimes.

You got any proof he actively covered things up?

Are you kidding ?

How about you ask Alan Brazil.

People testified on the trial of Torbett that things were covered up 'to uphold the good name of Celtic FC'.

By the way, they keep on hammering on about how the BJK-campaign stopped Jock Stein from receiving his knighthood.

So I take it the Racing Club game, where 4 of his players were sent off, never happened ?

[Ibroxblue 122]

Have you got proof that he kicked out torbett (as you assert)?

And why?

What does the word 'actively' mean in this context?

By not reporting the crimes he participated in the cover up - a criminal conspiracy if ever there was one.

Are you his lovechild or something?

You seem to love him so much.

Try to leave the silly personal stuff out of it, eh?

Several of Torbett's victims and other people around at the time have stated that Stein kicked Torbett out.

"Actively" means what it usually means, namely that actually he took some action.

Another thing that was stated by victims of Torbett was that Stein did not report Torbett to spare the victims further hurt and shame. Now, you can disagree with Stein's view but it's not true that he did nothing about it and I've seen no evidence that he actively did something to cover it up.

These chants shame our support and our club. Stuff like scarves, stickers and bedsheet banners even more so, if possible.

[Jelle1880 234]

Have you got proof that he kicked out torbett (as you assert)?

And why?

What does the word 'actively' mean in this context?

By not reporting the crimes he participated in the cover up - a criminal conspiracy if ever there was one.

Are you his lovechild or something?

You seem to love him so much.

Try to leave the silly personal stuff out of it, eh?

Several of Torbett's victims and other people around at the time have stated that Stein kicked Torbett out.

"Actively" means what it usually means, namely that actually he took some action.

Another thing that was stated by victims of Torbett was that Stein did not report Torbett to spare the victims further hurt and shame. Now, you can disagree with Stein's view but it's not true that he did nothing about it and I've seen no evidence that he actively did something to cover it up.

These chants shame our support and our club. Stuff like scarves, stickers and bedsheet banners even more so, if possible.

Stein didn't report it to uphold the name of Septic.

He kicked Torbett out and didn't inform the authorities, so that the 'good name' of the club didn't get smeared.

Then years later, Torbett was allowed back to the club.

[Ibroxblue 122]

Are you kidding ?

How about you ask Alan Brazil.

People testified on the trial of Torbett that things were covered up 'to uphold the good name of Celtic FC'.

I believe that is a misunderstanding. Hugh Birt testified that "When I joined as chairman, I was told by Jock Stein to keep the name of Celtic Football Club clean at all times". Now being told in a general way when you take up a job that the reputation of the club should not suffer is a long way from being told to cover up specific things when they come to light. You could be told when joining a company that the company wasn't to get a bad name. That would be a reference to general misbehaviour, not an exhortation to cover up serious crimes should you get to know about them.

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,684]

Have you got proof that he kicked out torbett (as you assert)?

And why?

What does the word 'actively' mean in this context?

By not reporting the crimes he participated in the cover up - a criminal conspiracy if ever there was one.

Are you his lovechild or something?

You seem to love him so much.

Try to leave the silly personal stuff out of it, eh?

Several of Torbett's victims and other people around at the time have stated that Stein kicked Torbett out.

"Actively" means what it usually means, namely that actually he took some action.

Another thing that was stated by victims of Torbett was that Stein did not report Torbett to spare the victims further hurt and shame. Now, you can disagree with Stein's view but it's not true that he did nothing about it and I've seen no evidence that he actively did something to cover it up.

These chants shame our support and our club. Stuff like scarves, stickers and bedsheet banners even more so, if possible.

Stein didn't report it to uphold the name of Septic.

He kicked Torbett out and didn't inform the authorities, so that the 'good name' of the club didn't get smeared.

Then years later, Torbett was allowed back to the club.

Spot on, this does not deserved to be dropped, the only reason certain people want it dropped is because there is more to hide.

[Jelle1880 234]

Are you kidding ?

How about you ask Alan Brazil.

People testified on the trial of Torbett that things were covered up 'to uphold the good name of Celtic FC'.

I believe that is a misunderstanding. Hugh Birt testified that "When I joined as chairman, I was told by Jock Stein to keep the name of Celtic Football Club clean at all times". Now being told in a general way when you take up a job that the reputation of the club should not suffer is a long way from being told to cover up specific things when they come to light. You could be told when joining a company that the company wasn't to get a bad name. That would be a reference to general misbehaviour, not an exhortation to cover up serious crimes should you get to know about them.

And yet that is exactly what they did.

Surely, if they kicked Torbett out and reported that child molesting c*nt to the police there wouldn't be any problem ?

Then they would've done their duty.

http://ifyouknowtheirhistory.blogspot.com/...weeping-in.html

"He kicked Torbett out, but it was still kept quiet. "All the directors and lots of others knew why Torbett got the boot, but it was swept under the carpet."

[Ibroxblue 122]

Are you kidding ?

How about you ask Alan Brazil.

People testified on the trial of Torbett that things were covered up 'to uphold the good name of Celtic FC'.

I believe that is a misunderstanding. Hugh Birt testified that "When I joined as chairman, I was told by Jock Stein to keep the name of Celtic Football Club clean at all times". Now being told in a general way when you take up a job that the reputation of the club should not suffer is a long way from being told to cover up specific things when they come to light. You could be told when joining a company that the company wasn't to get a bad name. That would be a reference to general misbehaviour, not an exhortation to cover up serious crimes should you get to know about them.

And yet that is exactly what they did.

I've still to see any evidence that Stein actively covered up what happened. He didn't go to the police for the reasons I've already stated. He took the action he thought appropriate and you can obviously disagree with that but that's not the same as him actively covering things up. Significantly, Torbett didn't come back till after Stein was gone so there are other people at Celtic (some of them perhaps still alive) who should come under more scrutiny than Stein.

What does the "campaign" hope to achieve anyway? Torbett went to jail, Stein is long dead. It's more likely to hurt Rangers and Rangers fans than anything else.

[Jelle1880 234]

Are you kidding ?

How about you ask Alan Brazil.

People testified on the trial of Torbett that things were covered up 'to uphold the good name of Celtic FC'.

I believe that is a misunderstanding. Hugh Birt testified that "When I joined as chairman, I was told by Jock Stein to keep the name of Celtic Football Club clean at all times". Now being told in a general way when you take up a job that the reputation of the club should not suffer is a long way from being told to cover up specific things when they come to light. You could be told when joining a company that the company wasn't to get a bad name. That would be a reference to general misbehaviour, not an exhortation to cover up serious crimes should you get to know about them.

And yet that is exactly what they did.

I've still to see any evidence that Stein actively covered up what happened. He didn't go to the police for the reasons I've already stated. He took the action he thought appropriate and you can obviously disagree with that but that's not the same as him actively covering things up. Significantly, Torbett didn't come back till after Stein was gone so there are other people at Celtic (some of them perhaps still alive) who should come under more scrutiny than Stein.

What does the "campaign" hope to achieve anyway? Torbett went to jail, Stein is long dead. It's more likely to hurt Rangers and Rangers fans than anything else.

John McCluskey.

[Ibroxblue 122]

Are you kidding ?

How about you ask Alan Brazil.

People testified on the trial of Torbett that things were covered up 'to uphold the good name of Celtic FC'.

I believe that is a misunderstanding. Hugh Birt testified that "When I joined as chairman, I was told by Jock Stein to keep the name of Celtic Football Club clean at all times". Now being told in a general way when you take up a job that the reputation of the club should not suffer is a long way from being told to cover up specific things when they come to light. You could be told when joining a company that the company wasn't to get a bad name. That would be a reference to general misbehaviour, not an exhortation to cover up serious crimes should you get to know about them.

And yet that is exactly what they did.

I've still to see any evidence that Stein actively covered up what happened. He didn't go to the police for the reasons I've already stated. He took the action he thought appropriate and you can obviously disagree with that but that's not the same as him actively covering things up. Significantly, Torbett didn't come back till after Stein was gone so there are other people at Celtic (some of them perhaps still alive) who should come under more scrutiny than Stein.

What does the "campaign" hope to achieve anyway? Torbett went to jail, Stein is long dead. It's more likely to hurt Rangers and Rangers fans than anything else.

John McCluskey.

John McCluskey said this, "There was always talk around Celtic about Torbett and boys, but nothing seemed to be done until Jock Stein found out".

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Have you got proof that he kicked out torbett (as you assert)?

And why?

What does the word 'actively' mean in this context?

By not reporting the crimes he participated in the cover up - a criminal conspiracy if ever there was one.

Are you his lovechild or something?

You seem to love him so much.

Try to leave the silly personal stuff out of it, eh?

Several of Torbett's victims and other people around at the time have stated that Stein kicked Torbett out.

"Actively" means what it usually means, namely that actually he took some action.

Another thing that was stated by victims of Torbett was that Stein did not report Torbett to spare the victims further hurt and shame. Now, you can disagree with Stein's view but it's not true that he did nothing about it and I've seen no evidence that he actively did something to cover it up.

These chants shame our support and our club. Stuff like scarves, stickers and bedsheet banners even more so, if possible.

So not reporting a crime is OK because it is not 'active'? Tell that to the judge....

I'll refrain from the silly personal stuff just as you refrain fron silly unfounded sweeping statements like your final sentence

[McWeedy 28]

IMO there is nothing wrong with attacking Jock Steins name over his actions that lead to further child abuse. However there is something wrong with the pleasure some fans take in the fact that he did know. I can understand people singing it in anger and outrage but not those singing because they find it funny someone covered up child abuse. Bears take far too much pleasure in singing it, yes its a good GIRFUY to timmy but we shouldnt be taking too much pleasure in it.

[Ibroxblue 122]

Have you got proof that he kicked out torbett (as you assert)?

And why?

What does the word 'actively' mean in this context?

By not reporting the crimes he participated in the cover up - a criminal conspiracy if ever there was one.

Are you his lovechild or something?

You seem to love him so much.

Try to leave the silly personal stuff out of it, eh?

Several of Torbett's victims and other people around at the time have stated that Stein kicked Torbett out.

"Actively" means what it usually means, namely that actually he took some action.

Another thing that was stated by victims of Torbett was that Stein did not report Torbett to spare the victims further hurt and shame. Now, you can disagree with Stein's view but it's not true that he did nothing about it and I've seen no evidence that he actively did something to cover it up.

These chants shame our support and our club. Stuff like scarves, stickers and bedsheet banners even more so, if possible.

So not reporting a crime is OK because it is not 'active'? Tell that to the judge....

I'll refrain from the silly personal stuff just as you refrain fron silly unfounded sweeping statements like your final sentence

Feel free to actually address what's in my final sentence. Since you think it's inaccurate, explain why....

There are a lot of people still around who didn't report what went on at Celtic Boys Club. There are people who let Torbett back in to Celtic Boys Club (after Stein was dead I believe). Why not tell that to the judge rather than attacking the only guy who did something about it at that time and who didn't go to the police because (rightly or wrongly) he thought it was the best thing for the young players?

[pipedown27ready 108]

They're all wankers.

Celtic fan? Feeling depressed? Need someone to talk to?

Speak to one of our advisers today.

Call 0800 10 10 10 now.

Thats 0800 WON NOTHING WON NOTHING WON NOTHING!

[Ibroxblue 122]

IMO there is nothing wrong with attacking Jock Steins name over his actions that lead to further child abuse. However there is something wrong with the pleasure some fans take in the fact that he did know. I can understand people singing it in anger and outrage but not those singing because they find it funny someone covered up child abuse. Bears take far too much pleasure in singing it, yes its a good GIRFUY to timmy but we shouldnt be taking too much pleasure in it.

I largely agree with you. There's nothing wrong with criticising Stein or asking questions about what went on in a reasonable way (though bear in mind that it was a long time ago, the offender was convicted, and Stein is long gone). But football chants, etc is not the right way to deal with it.

[Jelle1880 234]

John McCluskey said this, "There was always talk around Celtic about Torbett and boys, but nothing seemed to be done until Jock Stein found out".

Funny how you only post part of the quote.

Here's the full one:

"He kicked Torbett out, but it was still kept quiet. "All the directors and lots of others knew why Torbett got the boot, but it was swept under the carpet."

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Feel free to actually address what's in my final sentence. Since you think it's inaccurate, explain why....

There are a lot of people still around who didn't report what went on at Celtic Boys Club. There are people who let Torbett back in to Celtic Boys Club (after Stein was dead I believe). Why not tell that to the judge rather than attacking the only guy who did something about it at that time and who didn't go to the police because (rightly or wrongly) he thought it was the best thing for the young players?

You really are something.

You make sweeping unfounded statements like that and then when that's pointed out you try to shift the onus, rather than justify your point of view (which of course you can't).

Why would I be telling anything to a judge?

And the reason that Stein is singled out is as has been pointed out so often before he is lionised by them, a Stand named after him even that daft knighthood campaign.

But you already knew that.

[Ibroxblue 122]

John McCluskey said this, "There was always talk around Celtic about Torbett and boys, but nothing seemed to be done until Jock Stein found out".

Funny how you only post part of the quote.

Here's the full one:

"He kicked Torbett out, but it was still kept quiet. "All the directors and lots of others knew why Torbett got the boot, but it was swept under the carpet."

Not funny at all. What you call the "full" quote still praises Stein and criticises "All the directors and lots of others". Stein's actions are open to debate but he still did something about it and the reason he didn't go to the police has already been covered.

[Ibroxblue 122]

Feel free to actually address what's in my final sentence. Since you think it's inaccurate, explain why....

There are a lot of people still around who didn't report what went on at Celtic Boys Club. There are people who let Torbett back in to Celtic Boys Club (after Stein was dead I believe). Why not tell that to the judge rather than attacking the only guy who did something about it at that time and who didn't go to the police because (rightly or wrongly) he thought it was the best thing for the young players?

You really are something.

You make sweeping unfounded statements like that and then when that's pointed out you try to shift the onus, rather than justify your point of view (which of course you can't).

Why would I be telling anything to a judge?

And the reason that Stein is singled out is as has been pointed out so often before he is lionised by them, a Stand named after him even that daft knighthood campaign.

But you already knew that.

Spare us the would-be mind-reading routine. Of course Celtic praise Stein - he did a huge amount for their club. And he can't get a knighthood - that has been clear for quite some time.

As for what you call my "sweeping unfounded statement", Rangers and Rangers fans have had heavy criticism regarding this "campaign" in the media and elsewhere, so of course it can hurt us.

[Jelle1880 234]

No it hasn't been covered, you claim they covered it up because they didn't want to hurt the families, wich is just bollocks.

[Ibroxblue 122]

No it hasn't been covered, you claim they covered it up because they didn't want to hurt the families, wich is just bollocks.

No, I said that's why Stein didn't go to the police.