RST in meltdown ............

[Briton 394]

Nothing the Record has reported is true.

Are you privy as to what went on regarding the resignations from the RST board then?

No, but neither are they.

So you don't really know 'nothing the Record has reported is true' then?

I trust and believe wholeheatedly that those who resigned for whatever reason wouldn't go telling to the Record.

They have seen the threads on here and elsewhere, Murray has seen an opportunity 'eh viola'

Thought so.

[Jimenez 1]

Thought so.

Get to the point, I said it isn't true based on what I believe.

[Friedmarsbar 1]

There is no doubt in my mind that Mark Dingwall ,either as a board member of the Trust or in any other disguise, will never get an invitation to the board of Rangers Football Club. He represents everything that drags the name of Rangers through the mud, the people who think singing songs about Ulster makes them better than your average Rangers supporters,he represents the past, we have got to advance as a club and that means getting rid of this loyalist and orange baggage.

I am worried that Dingwall is making a play for the RST and bringing his political views to the fore, the resignation of the other board members is a worying sign as is the worrying dimmunation of opposing views on his website.

[Jimenez 1]

There is no doubt in my mind that Mark Dingwall ,either as a board member of the Trust or in any other disguise, will never get an invitation to the board of Rangers Football Club. He represents everything that drags the name of Rangers through the mud, the people who think singing songs about Ulster makes them better than your average Rangers supporters,he represents the past, we have got to advance as a club and that means getting rid of this loyalist and orange baggage.

I am worried that Dingwall is making a play for the RST and bringing his political views to the fore, the resignation of the other board members is a worying sign as is the worrying dimmunation of opposing views on his website.

What a load of sanctimonious rot.

Does everything you post have to degrade the Ulster Scot connection? By the way, kudos on turning it in to a protestant issue

He may not be better than you but he sure as hell commits more effort in to his beliefs and that bloody well shows.

If you are worried I suggest you go to the AGM and plead your case, otherwise you can continue watching on from the sidelines as someone passionate as he is quite rightly influences others.

[minstral 5,375]

There is no doubt in my mind that Mark Dingwall ,either as a board member of the Trust or in any other disguise, will never get an invitation to the board of Rangers Football Club. He represents everything that drags the name of Rangers through the mud, the people who think singing songs about Ulster makes them better than your average Rangers supporters,he represents the past, we have got to advance as a club and that means getting rid of this loyalist and orange baggage.

I am worried that Dingwall is making a play for the RST and bringing his political views to the fore, the resignation of the other board members is a worying sign as is the worrying dimmunation of opposing views on his website.

what a load of pish.

[Jimenez 1]

There is no doubt in my mind that Mark Dingwall ,either as a board member of the Trust or in any other disguise, will never get an invitation to the board of Rangers Football Club. He represents everything that drags the name of Rangers through the mud, the people who think singing songs about Ulster makes them better than your average Rangers supporters,he represents the past, we have got to advance as a club and that means getting rid of this loyalist and orange baggage.

I am worried that Dingwall is making a play for the RST and bringing his political views to the fore, the resignation of the other board members is a worying sign as is the worrying dimmunation of opposing views on his website.

what a load of pish.

The depressing thing is mate, it took him over an hour to post that.

[SuperRangers 2]

Me thinks the daily rhebel are at it, GMS response from FF.

Grandmaster_Suck

By Her Majesty's Special Command

Join Date: 06-03-2005

Location: The Disco Inferno

Posts: 7,763

A few points regarding the RST article in the Daily Record

Firstly the article was not in fact written by “Alan Marshall†- he does not exist. Alan Marshall is a “house name†used by journalists to hide behind. The article was in fact written by Jim ‘Rangers fans deserved a beating in Spain’ Traynor at the behest of Daily Record editor Bruce Waddell who is a lapdog of David Murray.

I may be being a little over-conspiratorial but such a story does take a little of the light away from real stories such as the one published on Tuesday by this website asking who exactly will profit from any proposed redevelopment of Ibrox.

Traynor got his sidekick Celtic supporter Craig Swan to phone me asking for a quote - I properly refused as only the media spokesmen can speak for the Trust. The article is riddled with inaccuracies - the claim that ‘all six of the RST’s directors have resigned’ is somewhat at odds with the membership of nineteen.

When I reported to Davie Edgar to expect a call from the Record Davie texted back with the surprising news that at that very moment he was being asked by the Record’s sister paper the Sunday Mail for an interview about fans in football. Some coincidence eh?

The main thrust of the Record story is simply a lie. The claim that the six Rangers Trust board members who have left in recent weeks have done so over a dispute concerning who would be a supporters representative is a straightforward lie. Malcolm McNiven was the sole and unanimously endorsed Trust candidate. Only two other Board members had allowed their names to go forward last year for consideration before withdrawing in favour of Malcolm alone - Scott McMillan and John Gilligan - and I believe the record will show that I backed Malcolm and John before we decided to only put forward one rather than two names. At no time have I canvassed in any way, shape or form to be a candidate for such office.

Far from feeling marginalised on the Trust Board I felt and feel entirely comfortable on it. Indeed - at the Board meeting the night before Malcolm resigned those present - 12 out of a total membership of 19 - voted UNANIMOUSLY to have a written report on dealings with the club presented to us. Five of the six who have subsequently resigned did not attend that meeting.

At no point have any RST Board members - resigned or continuing - asked me to resign from the Trust or to change in any way the operation of the website or the content of the fanzine.

A complaint will be made to the Press Complaints Council and the National Union of Journalists regarding the lies contained in the article as well as the abuse of press power exemplified by two major national newspapers having their resources used at the behest of a powerful individual. The retentive memory resident within the Daily Record’s content management system will no doubt contain interesting evidence.

[contacts 0]

Nothing the Record has reported is true.

Are you privy as to what went on regarding the resignations from the RST board then?

No, but neither are they.

So you don't really know 'nothing the Record has reported is true' then?

I trust and believe wholeheatedly that those who resigned for whatever reason wouldn't go telling to the Record.

They have seen the threads on here and elsewhere, Murray has seen an opportunity 'eh viola'

Agreed! Further to this I don't think anyone on the RST board or the guys who resigned would have enough influence with the paper to get a story on the back page of Scotland's biggest selling daily paper about internal issue's in a fans organisation.

Put it another way- the Man Utd Trust has over 30,000 members and probably has a board of 20. Even if it was 6 of the main players that resigned from their board do you think it would make the back page of the English papers? It probably would not even make the local papers.

[Mean_Gene_Okerlund 8]

Dingwall is a muppet, and the further away he and his cronies on FF are from official decisions concerning the club, the better.

If Dingwall or any of his other pseudo-intellectual FF pals managed to get into Rangers in an official capacity, it would be a real case of last one out turn off the lights.

[Jimenez 1]

Dingwall is a muppet, and the further away he and his cronies on FF are from official decisions concerning the club, the better.

If Dingwall or any of his other pseudo-intellectual FF pals managed to get into Rangers in an official capacity, it would be a real case of last one out turn off the lights.

Again with the character assassination, how noble of you to do it here.

Can you point out where Mark personally has shown any inclination of integrating himself with Rangers in an official capacity?

Indeed, wouldn't the more militant approach hinted at suggest the complete opposite.

But then dealing with the reality of the matter would stop super brains here mid-rant, and we wouldn't want that would we.

I posted a few weeks a go how pathetically sad this site has become with certain members on here feeling the need to belittle a fellow bears site, if it anything it has got worse.

[Mean_Gene_Okerlund 8]

Again with the character assassination, how noble of you to do it here.

Can you point out where Mark personally has shown any inclination of integrating himself with Rangers in an official capacity?

Indeed, wouldn't the more militant approach hinted at suggest the complete opposite.

But then dealing with the reality of the matter would stop super brains here mid-rant, and we wouldn't want that would we.

I posted a few weeks a go how pathetically sad this site has become with certain members on here feeling the need to belittle a fellow bears site, if it anything it has got worse.

I'm perfectly entitled to my opinion, based on stuff I've read over many years from him and those he identifies with. If you don't like it, feel perfectly free never to read any of my posts again

And of course no one on 'that' site would EVER have a go at anyone's character, even those who disagree with the more prominent posters...

[Jimenez 1]

I'm perfectly entitled to my opinion, based on stuff I've read over many years from him and those he identifies with. If you don't like it, feel perfectly free never to read any of my posts again

And of course no one on 'that' site would EVER have a go at anyone's character, even those who disagree with the more prominent posters...

I didn't say you weren't. And believe it or not I enjoy debating the merits or not of where the Trust is headed, it's something I strongly believe in.

What I do feel is unfair is where an article by the Daily record (I mean FFS) gives people on here the cue to personally attack someone who is every bit as passionate about Rangers as anyone else.

Of course they have. I never said FF is perfect and when discussing subjects that are important, bears who have generally posted with one another for years will tend to gang up on those who disagree with them, I'm not saying that is fair but it's natural. I guarantee you though that if join the RST you will be just as entitled to an opinion as anyone else here, there or anywhere else.

[Guest Andypendek]

b]At no time have I canvassed in any way, shape or form to be a candidate for such office.

from the response by mr dingwall

Sounds like nothing so much as Uncle Joe Stalin smirking behind his moustache and saying 'But I am just a private citizen!' Or those American politicians: "Although I do not seek office, I would consider it were it offered to me.'

This is been presented as Murray using the daily record to stir up trouble and attack his enemies. First response to that is, reality check! No matter how important you find Rangers, how big a part of your life it is and so on, it doesn't matter what you say, do or think about David Murray. He has all the power, holds all the cards. To imagine yourself as somehow his enemy, hopefully his nemesis who will smite him down with the sword of truth and send his treacherous head tumbling down the marble staircase is just self-important delusion. He hasn't heard of you, and he doesn't have to care about you. This is how it is in the world of money - he has it, thus he makes the decisions. Whether you like them or not is neither here nor there!

Second, this story has been ongoing for what, over a month now? Only reason the record is running it is because there is nothing happening transfer wise. As an attempt to split the support, when the RST represents 1/8th of an average matchday attendance (and don't forget, we have over 200,000 fans in the hinterland) it would be spectacularly pointless.

Another thing that has come up is this 'overpowering' of protesters outside Ibrox, and how awful it is that Murray/the club could condone violence. It reads as nothing of the sort to me, it could be referring to overpowering in terms of numbers, in terms of noise, in terms of argument. Until someone puts up a copy I certainly don't accept the 'condoning violence' theory as accurate. We need to see the thing to decide, although those who have been saying we shouldn't judge mr dingwall without knowing the facts appear quite happy to judge others without knowing them.

What's more, if we're going to use the line 'try saying that in a Rangers pub,' with its implied threat of violence, when some 'new breed' fan posts something off-message, we can hardly complain if someone else offers violence back. If you give it out, you have to take it as well.

[gers_boy_john 2]

Extreme in the way that he rules FF with an iron fist, banning people without explanation at the most a one word answer in "Taig". He also organised the protest against Murray outside the Main Stand a few seasons go which was shot down in flames by other supporters. I have absolutely no doubts that he too would have been at the forefront of the announced proposals last week which are about as extreme as one could concoct.

He certainly isn't a man who thinks rationally on any situation that's for sure. He is as anti-Murray as they come which isn't exactly a great criteria for leading an organisation supposed to be working WITH Murray and the club for the benefit of the fans.

Is that the same "supporters" that threw things at the protesters and while being escorted away by police they sang the billy boys

[Jimenez 1]

b]At no time have I canvassed in any way, shape or form to be a candidate for such office.

from the response by mr dingwall

Sounds like nothing so much as Uncle Joe Stalin smirking behind his moustache and saying 'But I am just a private citizen!' Or those American politicians: "Although I do not seek office, I would consider it were it offered to me.'

This is been presented as Murray using the daily record to stir up trouble and attack his enemies. First response to that is, reality check! No matter how important you find Rangers, how big a part of your life it is and so on, it doesn't matter what you say, do or think about David Murray. He has all the power, holds all the cards. To imagine yourself as somehow his enemy, hopefully his nemesis who will smite him down with the sword of truth and send his treacherous head tumbling down the marble staircase is just self-important delusion. He hasn't heard of you, and he doesn't have to care about you. This is how it is in the world of money - he has it, thus he makes the decisions. Whether you like them or not is neither here nor there!

Second, this story has been ongoing for what, over a month now? Only reason the record is running it is because there is nothing happening transfer wise. As an attempt to split the support, when the RST represents 1/8th of an average matchday attendance (and don't forget, we have over 200,000 fans in the hinterland) it would be spectacularly pointless.

Another thing that has come up is this 'overpowering' of protesters outside Ibrox, and how awful it is that Murray/the club could condone violence. It reads as nothing of the sort to me, it could be referring to overpowering in terms of numbers, in terms of noise, in terms of argument. Until someone puts up a copy I certainly don't accept the 'condoning violence' theory as accurate. We need to see the thing to decide, although those who have been saying we shouldn't judge mr dingwall without knowing the facts appear quite happy to judge others without knowing them.

What's more, if we're going to use the line 'try saying that in a Rangers pub,' with its implied threat of violence, when some 'new breed' fan posts something off-message, we can hardly complain if someone else offers violence back. If you give it out, you have to take it as well.

Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise?

So he/we shouldn't try to change that situation? Just accept it, quite the socialist aren't you. It must be glorious to be a do nothing cynic in your world Andy. The Record has run this story 'cause it has Murray's opportunistic go ahead, he has always seen the RST as a threat.

You have your beliefs on those protests, I have mine. But in a society where freedom of speech is supposed to be tolerated the tone coming from the official site when they knew full well people had been physically hurt was truly shocking. You can pick and choose to accept what you want in all honesty.

Your final point. Where has anyone said that on this thread? If you have issues elsewhere go post them there.

[Guest Andypendek]

Relax Jim, you're lashing out when you're not being attacked. To answer you, cordially:

So he/we shouldn't try to change that situation? Just accept it, quite the socialist aren't you. It must be glorious to be a do nothing cynic in your world Andy

You know as well as I do that this fella is a comitted capitalist. The irony is, he is suffering because of the capitalist system. Whether you choose to do nothing about that, or something, is up to you. Since you don't know me, the personal comment is meaningless. I could be Tommy Sheridan for all you know! The point remains.

You can pick and choose to accept what you want in all honesty.

As I said, until I see what was written I won't be believing anyone.

Your final point. Where has anyone said that on this thread? If you have issues elsewhere go post them there.

If it's all the same to you, I'll decide where and what I post.

[leftyger 0]

There is no doubt in my mind that Mark Dingwall ,either as a board member of the Trust or in any other disguise, will never get an invitation to the board of Rangers Football Club. He represents everything that drags the name of Rangers through the mud, the people who think singing songs about Ulster makes them better than your average Rangers supporters,he represents the past, we have got to advance as a club and that means getting rid of this loyalist and orange baggage.

I am worried that Dingwall is making a play for the RST and bringing his political views to the fore, the resignation of the other board members is a worying sign as is the worrying dimmunation of opposing views on his website.

what a load of pish.

No he is spot on. Mark Dingwill and his politics are unrepresentative of the vast majority of Rangers fans - how many bears voted for the Scottish Unionist Party?

He is using Follow Follow and the RST to try to shore up support for his outdated view of the world. He is using Rangers fans and their love of the club to advance his own political agenda, under the guise of attacking Murray and defending the clubs traditions.

[Jimenez 1]

Relax Jim, you're lashing out when you're not being attacked. To answer you, cordially:

So he/we shouldn't try to change that situation? Just accept it, quite the socialist aren't you. It must be glorious to be a do nothing cynic in your world Andy

You know as well as I do that this fella is a comitted capitalist. The irony is, he is suffering because of the capitalist system. Whether you choose to do nothing about that, or something, is up to you. Since you don't know me, the personal comment is meaningless. I could be Tommy Sheridan for all you know! The point remains.

You can pick and choose to accept what you want in all honesty.

As I said, until I see what was written I won't be believing anyone.

Your final point. Where has anyone said that on this thread? If you have issues elsewhere go post them there.

If it's all the same to you, I'll decide where and what I post.

I'm perfectly relaxed for a change Andy.

There has been a shocking amount of criticism directed at someone I know to be a good bear who cares deeply about the club. If you or anyone else for that matter disagree with him then by all means, point out where he is failing you

(Not you I know) Calling him a muppet or a bigot achieves basically nothing but more division

More importantly though, I'd ask you to look in the mirror and question what you have done to ensure Rangers move in the direction you believe it should.

I don't want to go round in circles on the protest issue, but clearly you haven't felt that in needs investigated. For someone who likes to analyise both sides of the arguments before making a conclusion (as you clearly have done) that seems odd.

You can pick and choose to post what you want when you want obviously, but posting your anguish over Batman here only complicates what we should be debating

[Jimenez 1]

No he is spot on. Mark Dingwill and his politics are unrepresentative of the vast majority of Rangers fans - how many bears voted for the Scottish Unionist Party?

He is using Follow Follow and the RST to try to shore up support for his outdated view of the world. He is using Rangers fans and their love of the club to advance his own political agenda, under the guise of attacking Murray and defending the clubs traditions.

And yours are?

Who do you vote?

I don't care who he is aligned to politically just as I don't care who you vote for.

I will however listen to what he has to say on Rangers without letting other issues cloud my judgement.

[minstral 5,375]

There is no doubt in my mind that Mark Dingwall ,either as a board member of the Trust or in any other disguise, will never get an invitation to the board of Rangers Football Club. He represents everything that drags the name of Rangers through the mud, the people who think singing songs about Ulster makes them better than your average Rangers supporters,he represents the past, we have got to advance as a club and that means getting rid of this loyalist and orange baggage.

I am worried that Dingwall is making a play for the RST and bringing his political views to the fore, the resignation of the other board members is a worying sign as is the worrying dimmunation of opposing views on his website.

what a load of pish.

No he is spot on. Mark Dingwill and his politics are unrepresentative of the vast majority of Rangers fans - how many bears voted for the Scottish Unionist Party?

He is using Follow Follow and the RST to try to shore up support for his outdated view of the world. He is using Rangers fans and their love of the club to advance his own political agenda, under the guise of attacking Murray and defending the clubs traditions.

i dont know the man but it seems his follow follow forum is the largest of all the rangers forums, so i am told with thousands of members. maybe someone from follow follow can confirm this, plus loads of people by the fanzine. i would say that he loves the club just like the rest of us, and is willing to take on murray, and in my opinion murray or one of his pals are trying to turn the fans against follow follow, i might be wrong but just found it a strange article.

[leftyger 0]

No he is spot on. Mark Dingwill and his politics are unrepresentative of the vast majority of Rangers fans - how many bears voted for the Scottish Unionist Party?

He is using Follow Follow and the RST to try to shore up support for his outdated view of the world. He is using Rangers fans and their love of the club to advance his own political agenda, under the guise of attacking Murray and defending the clubs traditions.

And yours are?

Who do you vote?

I don't care who he is aligned to politically just as I don't care who you vote for.

I will however listen to what he has to say on Rangers without letting other issues cloud my judgement.

The difference is I don't and never would put myself forward as a representative of the Rangers support, Mark does.

The pity here is that the RST has so much to campaign on around Murray's mismanagement of the club but seems to be more interested in perusing a paranoid agenda against the SFA/SPL or telling Walter who to sign

[Guest Andypendek]

Minstral, the sun and the record have the most readers in Scotland and we know what they are like. Size doesn't guarantee quality!

Jim, some replies:

"More importantly though, I'd ask you to look in the mirror and question what you have done to ensure Rangers move in the direction you believe it should".- In football, I value stability above all else. From that p.o.v., Murray is fine by me. Obviously I disagree with the whole money in football thing but short of raising the people's army and sezing control of the state there's not a great deal I can achieve on that front.

"I don't want to go round in circles on the protest issue, but clearly you haven't felt that in needs investigated. For someone who likes to analyise both sides of the arguments before making a conclusion (as you clearly have done) that seems odd."-Nah, I want to see what was written. As I said, I won't be believing anyone until that happens.

"You can pick and choose to post what you want when you want obviously, but posting your anguish over Batman here only complicates what we should be debating."- Lost me there. Is this a typo?

[Jimenez 1]

No he is spot on. Mark Dingwill and his politics are unrepresentative of the vast majority of Rangers fans - how many bears voted for the Scottish Unionist Party?

He is using Follow Follow and the RST to try to shore up support for his outdated view of the world. He is using Rangers fans and their love of the club to advance his own political agenda, under the guise of attacking Murray and defending the clubs traditions.

And yours are?

Who do you vote?

I don't care who he is aligned to politically just as I don't care who you vote for.

I will however listen to what he has to say on Rangers without letting other issues cloud my judgement.

The difference is I don't and never would put myself forward as a representative of the Rangers support, Mark does.

The pity here is that the RST has so much to campaign on around Murray's mismanagement of the club but seems to be more interested in perusing a paranoid agenda against the SFA/SPL or telling Walter who to sign

Why not? & I've never seen anything from the RST that hints towards politics outside football, if I had I'd leave in an instance. I wont be dictated to by anyone on that subject.

You have highlighted one statement from hundrens of others that wasn't even an official statement.

The part I put in bold is one I completely agree with and one I personally hope that the RST chooses to expose

[Jimenez 1]

Minstral, the sun and the record have the most readers in Scotland and we know what they are like. Size doesn't guarantee quality!

Jim, some replies:

"More importantly though, I'd ask you to look in the mirror and question what you have done to ensure Rangers move in the direction you believe it should".- In football, I value stability above all else. From that p.o.v., Murray is fine by me. Obviously I disagree with the whole money in football thing but short of raising the people's army and sezing control of the state there's not a great deal I can achieve on that front.

"I don't want to go round in circles on the protest issue, but clearly you haven't felt that in needs investigated. For someone who likes to analyise both sides of the arguments before making a conclusion (as you clearly have done) that seems odd."-Nah, I want to see what was written. As I said, I won't be believing anyone until that happens.

"You can pick and choose to post what you want when you want obviously, but posting your anguish over Batman here only complicates what we should be debating."- Lost me there. Is this a typo?

If Murray is fine by you then that is your prerogative. Obviously thousands don't and I'd counter that his complete mismanagement of the club is the whole point of the Trust. IMO the aim of the Trust has always been to get Murray to act in a beneficial manner towards the Rangers support.

I can't say anything to that but congratulations (I'm not trying to be obnoxious) If i had the link in my possession I'd give it to you. My initial reaction was one that you clearly don't believe me, minstral or Bluedell.

Last point. I honestly thought you were bemoaning the fact that Batman got banned while others were free to post 'come ahead - meet me' posts. I got that wrong but it wasn't really an issue I was paying much attention to

[leftyger 0]

The pity here is that the RST has so much to campaign on around Murray's mismanagement of the club but seems to be more interested in perusing a paranoid agenda against the SFA/SPL or telling Walter who to sign

The part I put in bold is one I completely agree with and one I personally hope that the RST chooses to expose

Well at least we agree on something.

I think the The RST should be focusing all its energy on Murray's financial mismanagement and not be distracted by what I see as fringe issues. Others will want a slightly different emphasis, which is their opinion and they are entitled to it.