Bluedell 14 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Another thing that has come up is this 'overpowering' of protesters outside Ibrox, and how awful it is that Murray/the club could condone violence. It reads as nothing of the sort to me, it could be referring to overpowering in terms of numbers, in terms of noise, in terms of argument. Until someone puts up a copy I certainly don't accept the 'condoning violence' theory as accurate. We need to see the thing to decide, although those who have been saying we shouldn't judge mr dingwall without knowing the facts appear quite happy to judge others without knowing them. You are obviously quite entitled to accept whatever you want, but it seems strange that you can form an opinion of "I certainly don't accept the 'condoning violence' theory as accurate" when never having read the article, and disagreeing with those who actually did read the article. I DID see it and decided. You haven't seen it and have decided that it didn't condone violence. It's the only time I can think of that I have emailed the club. But perhaps I misread the intention? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 14 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 No he is spot on. Mark Dingwill and his politics are unrepresentative of the vast majority of Rangers fans - how many bears voted for the Scottish Unionist Party? He is using Follow Follow and the RST to try to shore up support for his outdated view of the world. He is using Rangers fans and their love of the club to advance his own political agenda, under the guise of attacking Murray and defending the clubs traditions. What have Mark Dingwall's politics got do with anything? Just because the Daily record prints his politic allegience, why does it have any relevance to the RST situation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friedmarsbar 1 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 What have Mark Dingwall's politics got do with anything? Just because the Daily record prints his politic allegience, why does it have any relevance to the RST situation? Mark Dingwall's politics have everything to do with it. God help the Rangers Trust if he is now the major player. Look forward to the demise of the Trust, an organisation that had done quite a good job till now. I'll get the usual suspects on throwing all sorts of abuse because I hold this view, but really they and their cohorts represent exactly Mark Dingwalls philosophies, right wing anti-catholic,loyalist and orange and they see that as one with their support of Rangers. Rangers as a club are trying to get rid of this image, an image that attracts the mindless scum that dragged our name through the mud in Manchester. If Dingwall and his cronies succeed, the Rangers Trust is doomed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 The Trust have announced a SGM - date/venue to be announced... Only thing they could do in the circumstances.... Should be interesting! http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rs...15&Itemid=1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friedmarsbar 1 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Frankie, could I ask you if Dingwalls political views and the direction he wants the Trust to take one of the reasons behind the mass resignations from the Trust? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Frankie, could I ask you if Dingwalls political views and the direction he wants the Trust to take one of the reasons behind the mass resignations from the Trust? Personally I don't care about MD's political views - that's his personal business. I can't speak for the other people who resigned though. Other than that I will be saving my own resignation comments for the membership of the Trust at the SGM. It is then up to them to decide upon the issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Caldow 60 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Frankie, could I ask you if Dingwalls political views and the direction he wants the Trust to take one of the reasons behind the mass resignations from the Trust? Personally I don't care about MD's political views - that's his personal business. I can't speak for the other people who resigned though. Other than that I will be saving my own resignation comments for the membership of the Trust at the SGM. It is then up to them to decide upon the issue. Frankie, for the sake of your sanity, Let it go. You can hit me later........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 14 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Mark Dingwall's politics have everything to do with it. God help the Rangers Trust if he is now the major player. Look forward to the demise of the Trust, an organisation that had done quite a good job till now. I'll get the usual suspects on throwing all sorts of abuse because I hold this view, but really they and their cohorts represent exactly Mark Dingwalls philosophies, right wing anti-catholic,loyalist and orange and they see that as one with their support of Rangers. Rangers as a club are trying to get rid of this image, an image that attracts the mindless scum that dragged our name through the mud in Manchester. If Dingwall and his cronies succeed, the Rangers Trust is doomed. Frankie has shot your theory down in flames. The people who resigned may or may not have had issues with Mark Dingwall but I'm sure if they did his political allegiances had nothing to do with it. By the way, I see Stephen Smith has been elected Chairman pro tem. I'm sure he would object to being described as "right wing" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnestWorthing 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Is it not strange that they publish some reasons for the resignations and not others ? Either publish none, or publish all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friedmarsbar 1 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Mark Dingwall's politics have everything to do with it. God help the Rangers Trust if he is now the major player. Look forward to the demise of the Trust, an organisation that had done quite a good job till now. I'll get the usual suspects on throwing all sorts of abuse because I hold this view, but really they and their cohorts represent exactly Mark Dingwalls philosophies, right wing anti-catholic,loyalist and orange and they see that as one with their support of Rangers. Rangers as a club are trying to get rid of this image, an image that attracts the mindless scum that dragged our name through the mud in Manchester. If Dingwall and his cronies succeed, the Rangers Trust is doomed. Frankie has shot your theory down in flames. The people who resigned may or may not have had issues with Mark Dingwall but I'm sure if they did his political allegiances had nothing to do with it. By the way, I see Stephen Smith has been elected Chairman pro tem. I'm sure he would object to being described as "right wing" Never accused everybody of being right wing, don't know Stephen Smith, Dingwall is a very different matter. As for my theory being shot down, I don't think Frankie did that, read his whole reply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Frankie, for the sake of your sanity, Let it go. You can hit me later........ It's easy to say let it go mate but I'd much prefer the membership of the Trust were made aware of my issues before I do personally move on. As said earlier, I feel personally responsible for a lot of people joining the RST. As such, I feel personally responsible for making sure they all know about the issues I had in order to make their own decision about what happened and what action (if any) they take in that regard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueIsTheColour 35 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 The Trust have announced a SGM - date/venue to be announced... Only thing they could do in the circumstances.... Should be interesting! http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rs...15&Itemid=1 Cheers Frankie, i will definitely be going along to this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Caldow 60 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Frankie, for the sake of your sanity, Let it go. You can hit me later........ It's easy to say let it go mate but I'd much prefer the membership of the Trust were made aware of my issues before I do personally move on. As said earlier, I feel personally responsible for a lot of people joining the RST. As such, I feel personally responsible for making sure they all know about the issues I had in order to make their own decision about what happened and what action (if any) they take in that regard. I know, Frankie. You just seem to be fighting a battle that you've already won but the enemy wont believe you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnestWorthing 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Mark Dingwall's politics have everything to do with it. His politics per se don't have anything to do with it (might be different if he was a complete extremist, like a Conservative ). But he has hardly had a glitteringly successful political career. Jumping (being pushed?) from one party to another does not demonstrate consistency and commitment, nor does it result in electability. I don't recall him being able to bring the Scottish Unionist Party into the mainstream and make it electable. 225 votes for him the last time he stood (9th out of 10 - 10th place got 224 votes!) hardly demonstrates that he can bring success to the RST. In a recent speech to the SUP, Mark stated "we have to modernise the language of Unionism so that we are seen as relevant now and in the future and not yesterdays men seeking to turn back the clock". Indeed Mark, indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 14 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Mark Dingwall's politics have everything to do with it. God help the Rangers Trust if he is now the major player. Look forward to the demise of the Trust, an organisation that had done quite a good job till now. I'll get the usual suspects on throwing all sorts of abuse because I hold this view, but really they and their cohorts represent exactly Mark Dingwalls philosophies, right wing anti-catholic,loyalist and orange and they see that as one with their support of Rangers. Rangers as a club are trying to get rid of this image, an image that attracts the mindless scum that dragged our name through the mud in Manchester. If Dingwall and his cronies succeed, the Rangers Trust is doomed. Frankie has shot your theory down in flames. The people who resigned may or may not have had issues with Mark Dingwall but I'm sure if they did his political allegiances had nothing to do with it. By the way, I see Stephen Smith has been elected Chairman pro tem. I'm sure he would object to being described as "right wing" Never accused everybody of being right wing, don't know Stephen Smith, Dingwall is a very different matter. As for my theory being shot down, I don't think Frankie did that, read his whole reply. I'm sure if you were to ask the other 5 people who resigned they would also confirm that their resignations were nothing to do with Dingwall's political allegiances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Minstral, the sun and the record have the most readers in Scotland and we know what they are like. Size doesn't guarantee quality! Jim, some replies: "More importantly though, I'd ask you to look in the mirror and question what you have done to ensure Rangers move in the direction you believe it should".- In football, I value stability above all else. From that p.o.v., Murray is fine by me. Obviously I disagree with the whole money in football thing but short of raising the people's army and sezing control of the state there's not a great deal I can achieve on that front. "I don't want to go round in circles on the protest issue, but clearly you haven't felt that in needs investigated. For someone who likes to analyise both sides of the arguments before making a conclusion (as you clearly have done) that seems odd."-Nah, I want to see what was written. As I said, I won't be believing anyone until that happens. "You can pick and choose to post what you want when you want obviously, but posting your anguish over Batman here only complicates what we should be debating."- Lost me there. Is this a typo? If Murray is fine by you then that is your prerogative. Obviously thousands don't and I'd counter that his complete mismanagement of the club is the whole point of the Trust. IMO the aim of the Trust has always been to get Murray to act in a beneficial manner towards the Rangers support. I can't say anything to that but congratulations (I'm not trying to be obnoxious) If i had the link in my possession I'd give it to you. My initial reaction was one that you clearly don't believe me, minstral or Bluedell. Last point. I honestly thought you were bemoaning the fact that Batman got banned while others were free to post 'come ahead - meet me' posts. I got that wrong but it wasn't really an issue I was paying much attention to If the whole point of the trust was anti-SDM why does it not come out and say so in its Constitution. If that is TRUELY its stance then it is doomed to failure. For those who forget - Murray delivered 9 in a row, a UEFA cup final and numerous other trophies. He increased the stadium to 50,000. He gambles HIS (and our) money to get European sucess and when TV did rights did NOT happen he put more monye in to stabilise the club. What Mismanagement has Murray presided over that leads you to believe he should be forced out? Cause he took on the bigots ? Cause he wants us to work within the finances we generate as a support ? Nobody gets every decision right but Murray gets well better than pass marks on his stewardship of the club and when he does make mistakes - he rectifies them, a sign of a good manager! A fully signed up member of the SDM apprciation society! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighlandBear 1 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 What a surprise MD being a egotistic muthafucka once again. I'd bet he wouldnt have the balls to explain his actions as per usual..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briton 394 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 A fully signed up member of the SDM apprciation society! I can't make up my mind who is worse....the lovers or the haters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 The Trust were not set-up as an anti-SDM vehicle. Their aims are clear from their website. Occasionally and correctly that means they come into conflict with the club (and SDM) but - certainly when I was on the board - it is not true to say they exist to highlight the mismanagement of Murray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueIsTheColour 35 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 The Trust were not set-up as an anti-SDM vehicle. Their aims are clear from their website. Occasionally and correctly that means they come into conflict with the club (and SDM) but - certainly when I was on the board - it is not true to say they exist to highlight the mismanagement of Murray. Do you think that will change now Frankie? The RST has slowly become more and more anti-Murray over the past couple of years in my oppinion. Now that alot of the more objective and forward-thinking Board members have resigned there could be a chance that the ones who are left, many of whom are admittedly anti-Murray, will further increase the divide between the RST and SDM? I hope not because in the last year there were definitely massive steps being made between the club and the Trust to work together in a manner which would benefit the support. I simply would not want that work to go to waste as alienating ourselves from the club is a bad idea if positive change is to continue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowcross 5 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 A fully signed up member of the SDM apprciation society! I can't make up my mind who is worse....the lovers or the haters. or the procrastinators...! :harhar: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 505 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 BITC: Do you mean less anti-Murray over the last couple of years? As I think that's more accurate. I'm pretty sure the RST will become more militant now and, thus more anti-Murray. Time will tell if that strategy is more appealing to the membership and the supporters in general. It certainly wasn't before but times and opinions change - particularly after 3 years of no SPL title. There were large strides made in terms of a reasonably constructive relationship with the club in recent times. It is still debatable whether or not that dialogue would have born fruit in the ways we wanted to see but I still think the best way of challenging the issues we all have with the club was to secure a Directorship, ensure the we had the correct representative and change things from a position of repute within the board of the club. A more militant strategy is unlikely to achieve that aim but it may work better in precipitating action in other ways. No-one knows at this stage. But it's not something that I personally agree with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
minstral 5,375 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Minstral, the sun and the record have the most readers in Scotland and we know what they are like. Size doesn't guarantee quality! Jim, some replies: "More importantly though, I'd ask you to look in the mirror and question what you have done to ensure Rangers move in the direction you believe it should".- In football, I value stability above all else. From that p.o.v., Murray is fine by me. Obviously I disagree with the whole money in football thing but short of raising the people's army and sezing control of the state there's not a great deal I can achieve on that front. "I don't want to go round in circles on the protest issue, but clearly you haven't felt that in needs investigated. For someone who likes to analyise both sides of the arguments before making a conclusion (as you clearly have done) that seems odd."-Nah, I want to see what was written. As I said, I won't be believing anyone until that happens. "You can pick and choose to post what you want when you want obviously, but posting your anguish over Batman here only complicates what we should be debating."- Lost me there. Is this a typo? If Murray is fine by you then that is your prerogative. Obviously thousands don't and I'd counter that his complete mismanagement of the club is the whole point of the Trust. IMO the aim of the Trust has always been to get Murray to act in a beneficial manner towards the Rangers support. I can't say anything to that but congratulations (I'm not trying to be obnoxious) If i had the link in my possession I'd give it to you. My initial reaction was one that you clearly don't believe me, minstral or Bluedell. Last point. I honestly thought you were bemoaning the fact that Batman got banned while others were free to post 'come ahead - meet me' posts. I got that wrong but it wasn't really an issue I was paying much attention to If the whole point of the trust was anti-SDM why does it not come out and say so in its Constitution. If that is TRUELY its stance then it is doomed to failure. For those who forget - Murray delivered 9 in a row, a UEFA cup final and numerous other trophies. He increased the stadium to 50,000. He gambles HIS (and our) money to get European sucess and when TV did rights did NOT happen he put more monye in to stabilise the club. What Mismanagement has Murray presided over that leads you to believe he should be forced out? Cause he took on the bigots ? Cause he wants us to work within the finances we generate as a support ? Nobody gets every decision right but Murray gets well better than pass marks on his stewardship of the club and when he does make mistakes - he rectifies them, a sign of a good manager! A fully signed up member of the SDM apprciation society! yes fantastic guy who has given us 4 titles in eleven years. <_< Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDIGNITY 33,647 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 When you boil it down Murray like him or loathe him has done a job on the RST aided and abetted by the rhebel. PS - Of Machiavellian proportions ! He's a cunto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimenez 1 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 The Trust have announced a SGM - date/venue to be announced... Only thing they could do in the circumstances.... Should be interesting! http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rs...15&Itemid=1 Am I missing something? When is this meeting, I can't see the actual date Edit - I really am thick as shit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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