The famine song and the flower of Scotland

[WATPRFCNo1 0]

Battles and murder are socially acceptable. Starvation is not

Apparently the meaning of the song has been changed since I lived in Scotland then.

The standards have shifted purely to attack us.

Sadly, we have to ask for any standards to be applied equally and fairly.

Scotland has changed since you left.

The song has not changed it's still the same as when Ronnie Brown wrote it about being proud to be Scottish. Scotland has changed so many people grip about everything and have no pride left.

We didn't start it. The tims and Spiers did.

We don't want the song removed.

We're just pointing out the logical inconsistencies.

If the "famine is over, why don't you go home" is racist when sung by Scots to Scots, then "sent them homeward" about the English must also be considered in the same way.

They can't have one set of rules for us and another rule for others.

Disagree with your point mate. One is historical fact that an invading army was beaten then turfed out. The other is current asking why don't certain people bugger off.

And we want to 'turf' them out and asking them why they haven't yet gone, so surely it's the same thing?

we fought an INVADING army, no choice but to fight, no choice but to send them home, its not the same thing.

[dukestreetsoup 69]

I think anyone who was born in Scotland and lives in Scotland and doesnt support Scotland should go home. Wherever they think that might be.

[mrmytto 220]

Battles and murder are socially acceptable. Starvation is not

Apparently the meaning of the song has been changed since I lived in Scotland then.

The standards have shifted purely to attack us.

Sadly, we have to ask for any standards to be applied equally and fairly.

Scotland has changed since you left.

The song has not changed it's still the same as when Ronnie Brown wrote it about being proud to be Scottish. Scotland has changed so many people grip about everything and have no pride left.

We didn't start it. The tims and Spiers did.

We don't want the song removed.

We're just pointing out the logical inconsistencies.

If the "famine is over, why don't you go home" is racist when sung by Scots to Scots, then "sent them homeward" about the English must also be considered in the same way.

They can't have one set of rules for us and another rule for others.

Disagree with your point mate. One is historical fact that an invading army was beaten then turfed out. The other is current asking why don't certain people bugger off.

And we want to 'turf' them out and asking them why they haven't yet gone, so surely it's the same thing?

we fought an INVADING army, no choice but to fight, no choice but to send them home, its not the same thing.

It is the same, they both refer to sending people home. Look mate, we oviously aren't going to agree and we aren't going to be able to change each others minds so there's no point debating any further.

[Coopermania 1]

Hi, I'm format heh.

What would you like to know?

Hi. i'm Coopermania.

What would you like to know ?

[Wullie! 8]

I think anyone who was born in Scotland and lives in Scotland and doesnt support Scotland should go home. Wherever they think that might be.

Bit of a random outburst.

[cstamomusa 3,811]

Hi, I'm format heh.

What would you like to know?

Hi. i'm Coopermania.

What would you like to know ?

...are you tall dark and handsome?

[Coopermania 1]

Hi, I'm format heh.

What would you like to know?

Hi. i'm Coopermania.

What would you like to know ?

...are you tall dark and handsome?

No. I'm short, baldie and ugly

[cstamomusa 3,811]

Hi, I'm format heh.

What would you like to know?

Hi. i'm Coopermania.

What would you like to know ?

...are you tall dark and handsome?

No. I'm short, baldie and ugly

... ok thanks for playing

[radlord 24]

I think anyone who was born in Scotland and lives in Scotland and doesnt support Scotland should go home. Wherever they think that might be.

Bit of a random outburst.

Can you not see his point then?

[WATPRFCNo1 0]

Battles and murder are socially acceptable. Starvation is not

Apparently the meaning of the song has been changed since I lived in Scotland then.

The standards have shifted purely to attack us.

Sadly, we have to ask for any standards to be applied equally and fairly.

Scotland has changed since you left.

The song has not changed it's still the same as when Ronnie Brown wrote it about being proud to be Scottish. Scotland has changed so many people grip about everything and have no pride left.

We didn't start it. The tims and Spiers did.

We don't want the song removed.

We're just pointing out the logical inconsistencies.

If the "famine is over, why don't you go home" is racist when sung by Scots to Scots, then "sent them homeward" about the English must also be considered in the same way.

They can't have one set of rules for us and another rule for others.

Disagree with your point mate. One is historical fact that an invading army was beaten then turfed out. The other is current asking why don't certain people bugger off.

And we want to 'turf' them out and asking them why they haven't yet gone, so surely it's the same thing?

we fought an INVADING army, no choice but to fight, no choice but to send them home, its not the same thing.

It is the same, they both refer to sending people home. Look mate, we oviously aren't going to agree and we aren't going to be able to change each others minds so there's no point debating any further.

They both refer to sending people home :: if only it were that simple

[Wullie! 8]

I think anyone who was born in Scotland and lives in Scotland and doesnt support Scotland should go home. Wherever they think that might be.

Bit of a random outburst.

Can you not see his point then?

No, I can't. Do I have to support the National team to be a proud Scot?

[come on the gers 0]

The flower of Scotland is not the national anthem of Scotland.

Flower of Scotland

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

Flower Of Scotland

National Anthem of Scotland

Lyrics Roy Williamson, c.1965

Flower of Scotland (Scottish Gaelic: Flùr na h-Alba) is by tradition the national anthem of Scotland, a role for which it competes against the older Scotland the Brave. In common with England among the Home Nations, Scotland has no official national anthem. Flower of Scotland was written by Roy Williamson of the folk group The Corries and presented in 1967.[1] The song refers to the victory of the Scots, led by King Robert the Bruce over the King of England, Edward II, at the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314.

The song is a particular favourite of Scottish national rugby union team, with the winger Billy Steele encouraging his team-mates to sing it on the Lions victorious tour of South Africa in 1974.[citation needed] The song was first sung as the pre-game anthem during the 1990 Five Nations championship[citation needed] (the forerunner of the Six Nations Championship) which culminated in the deciding match between Scotland and England which Scotland won 13-7 to win the Grand Slam. The last two lines of each verse are generally sung with particular ferocity, especially before games against England. Although not officially part of the anthem, after the line "and stood against him", it is customary to chant "against who?" after which follows the line "Proud Edward's army" in the official part of the anthem. Some singers will also insert a swear word after the line "Proud Edward's Army".[citation needed] The Scottish Football Association adopted "Flower of Scotland" as its official pre-game anthem in 1997[citation needed] although it was first used by them in 1993,[citation needed] following the Scottish Rugby Union's example. Usually only the first and third verses are sung.

The introduction of Flower of Scotland was partly due to hostility amongst rugby and football fans toward the British national anthem God Save the Queen being used to represent Scotland, there being no other suitable anthem at the time. The song was popular amongst rugby supporters and was finally brought in as an unofficial anthem in response to God Save the Queen being continually drowned out by the ferocious booing and whistling of some of the Scotland supporters.[citation needed]

A public petition was presented to the Scottish Parliament in 2004 calling for another song to be selected instead.[2]

One snag with Flower of Scotland is that it is difficult to play on the bagpipes.[citation needed] The third last note is a flattened seventh (or indeed an irregular seventh a blue note), which is not considered to be part of the standard pipe scale. In order to hit the correct note, a 'forked fingering' must be used which less experienced players are unlikely to be familiar with. Most pipe bands play the tune incorrectly.[citation needed] The tune was originally composed on the Northumbrian smallpipes,[citation needed] which play in F and have the benefit of keys on the chanter to achieve a greater range of notes.

In July 2006, the Royal Scottish National Orchestra conducted an online poll (publicised by Reporting Scotland) in which voters could choose a national anthem from one of five candidates.[citation needed] 10,000 people took part in the poll in which Flower of Scotland came out a clear winner. The results were as follows:

Tune Votes (%)

Flower of Scotland 41%

Scotland the Brave 29%

Highland Cathedral 16%

A Man's a Man for A' That 7%

Scots Wha Hae 7%

The flower of Scotland is not the national anthem. Nowhere there does it sat it is.

God Save The Queen was getting sung years ago, that is OUR national anthem and always will be.

No, God save the Queen is the BRITISH national amtham, and should only be sung when it is a British occasion sporting or other wise.

Trying to put Flower of Scotland together with TFS is just plain stupid, and once again splits our support when we should be sticking together to fight the b******s who are trying to put us down. Lets not allow anyone, be it the SFA or the media to win by dividing us as a support/fans of our great club. I am normally a middle of the road type of guy but getting pissed off with what is happening at the moment.

[MayboleLoyal_atb 3,770]

I think anyone who was born in Scotland and lives in Scotland and doesnt support Scotland should go home. Wherever they think that might be.

I have had enough of Scotland. I used to call it my home but now I am embarrased of some people I share "my home" with.

[Scott-RFC 308]

I think anyone who was born in Scotland and lives in Scotland and doesnt support Scotland should go home. Wherever they think that might be.

I have had enough of Scotland. I used to call it my home but now I am embarrased of some people I share "my home" with.

Lot of lot of worse countries you could be living in

You should remember that

[dukestreetsoup 69]

I think anyone who was born in Scotland and lives in Scotland and doesnt support Scotland should go home. Wherever they think that might be.

I have had enough of Scotland. I used to call it my home but now I am embarrased of some people I share "my home" with.

Leave then. We'll get on just fine without you. A man who doesnt have love and pride for his home, doesnt deserve to live there.

[Scott-RFC 308]

I also think comparing the two more than clutching at straws

[GOAT 30,449]

The flower of Scotland is not the national anthem of Scotland.

Flower of Scotland

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

Flower Of Scotland

National Anthem of Scotland

Lyrics Roy Williamson, c.1965

Flower of Scotland (Scottish Gaelic: Flùr na h-Alba) is by tradition the national anthem of Scotland, a role for which it competes against the older Scotland the Brave. In common with England among the Home Nations, Scotland has no official national anthem. Flower of Scotland was written by Roy Williamson of the folk group The Corries and presented in 1967.[1] The song refers to the victory of the Scots, led by King Robert the Bruce over the King of England, Edward II, at the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314.

The song is a particular favourite of Scottish national rugby union team, with the winger Billy Steele encouraging his team-mates to sing it on the Lions victorious tour of South Africa in 1974.[citation needed] The song was first sung as the pre-game anthem during the 1990 Five Nations championship[citation needed] (the forerunner of the Six Nations Championship) which culminated in the deciding match between Scotland and England which Scotland won 13-7 to win the Grand Slam. The last two lines of each verse are generally sung with particular ferocity, especially before games against England. Although not officially part of the anthem, after the line "and stood against him", it is customary to chant "against who?" after which follows the line "Proud Edward's army" in the official part of the anthem. Some singers will also insert a swear word after the line "Proud Edward's Army".[citation needed] The Scottish Football Association adopted "Flower of Scotland" as its official pre-game anthem in 1997[citation needed] although it was first used by them in 1993,[citation needed] following the Scottish Rugby Union's example. Usually only the first and third verses are sung.

The introduction of Flower of Scotland was partly due to hostility amongst rugby and football fans toward the British national anthem God Save the Queen being used to represent Scotland, there being no other suitable anthem at the time. The song was popular amongst rugby supporters and was finally brought in as an unofficial anthem in response to God Save the Queen being continually drowned out by the ferocious booing and whistling of some of the Scotland supporters.[citation needed]

A public petition was presented to the Scottish Parliament in 2004 calling for another song to be selected instead.[2]

One snag with Flower of Scotland is that it is difficult to play on the bagpipes.[citation needed] The third last note is a flattened seventh (or indeed an irregular seventh a blue note), which is not considered to be part of the standard pipe scale. In order to hit the correct note, a 'forked fingering' must be used which less experienced players are unlikely to be familiar with. Most pipe bands play the tune incorrectly.[citation needed] The tune was originally composed on the Northumbrian smallpipes,[citation needed] which play in F and have the benefit of keys on the chanter to achieve a greater range of notes.

In July 2006, the Royal Scottish National Orchestra conducted an online poll (publicised by Reporting Scotland) in which voters could choose a national anthem from one of five candidates.[citation needed] 10,000 people took part in the poll in which Flower of Scotland came out a clear winner. The results were as follows:

Tune Votes (%)

Flower of Scotland 41%

Scotland the Brave 29%

Highland Cathedral 16%

A Man's a Man for A' That 7%

Scots Wha Hae 7%

The flower of Scotland is not the national anthem. Nowhere there does it sat it is.

God Save The Queen was getting sung years ago, that is OUR national anthem and always will be.

No, God save the Queen is the BRITISH national amtham, and should only be sung when it is a British occasion sporting or other wise.

Trying to put Flower of Scotland together with TFS is just plain stupid, and once again splits our support when we should be sticking together to fight the b******s who are trying to put us down. Lets not allow anyone, be it the SFA or the media to win by dividing us as a support/fans of our great club. I am normally a middle of the road type of guy but getting pissed off with what is happening at the moment.

...Scotland is British....So thanks for back up my point

[GOAT 30,449]

I think anyone who was born in Scotland and lives in Scotland and doesnt support Scotland should go home. Wherever they think that might be.

That's a bit of a random outburst to make. I'm proud to be Scottish, but I will never support the national team. Fuck the Scottish national team.

[Wullie! 8]

I think anyone who was born in Scotland and lives in Scotland and doesnt support Scotland should go home. Wherever they think that might be.

That's a bit of a random outburst to make. I'm proud to be Scottish, but I will never support the national team. Fuck the Scottish national team.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I have already posted that I think the Famine song is racist in nature if we are going to get to the nitty gritty..

Nitty-gritty

Meaning

The heart of the matter; the basic essentials; the harsh realities.

Any turn of phrase that is suspected as being racist is subject to close scrutiny, especially in the USA; hence the euphemistic 'N-word'. Reports that a harmless word like picnic originated as the name of a lynching party only have to be voiced to be taken seriously and become part of folk-etymology.

In that context it has been alleged that 'nitty-gritty' is a derogatory reference to the English slave trade of the 18th century. The phrase is usually used with the prefix 'getting down to' and there is a sense that, whatever the nitty-gritty is, it is at the bottom of something. The suggestion is that it originated as a term for the unimportant debris left at the bottom of ships after the slaves had been removed and that the meaning was extended to include the slaves themselves. That report became widely known following newspaper reports of an 'equality and diversity' course for Bristol Council employees in 2005. Had the firm that was conducting the training known that their claims were to reach so wide a public they may have chosen their words more carefully.

The general touchiness over language that might have had a racist origin is enhanced by the ongoing guilt felt by some communities that were formerly involved with the slave trade, for example the English sea-ports of Bristol and Liverpool. In July 2006, Liverpool Council debated the proposal that Penny Lane in Liverpool should be renamed to remove the association with the slave-trader James Penny. This was dismissed as ludicrous by many in the city, but the very fact that the suggestion was made indicates a degree of ongoing unease.

There is no evidence to support the suggestion that 'nitty-gritty' has any connection with slave ships. It may have originated in the USA as an African-American expression, but that's as near as it gets to slavery. It isn't even recorded in print until the 1950s, long after slave ships had disappeared, and none of the early references make any link to slavery.

My bold....

[radlord 24]

haha. Excellent

[*Manticore* 1,893]

But for the life of me I can't see why people think FoS is racist?

Can anybody explain (without reference to other songs)?

No takers on this one?

[Blue Bear 7]

of coarse I am jumping up and down as we speak. It's just smeltic supporters that know how to use a keyboard and can write news articles, poor us if only we could do something about that. Oh yes we can complain about a Scottish song that represents the past. People are just losing sympathy about the whole situation since it's just turned into they said, we said.

I have already posted that I think the Famine song is racist in nature if we are going to get to the nitty gritty...and posted a thread to that effect. I would imagine many bears have seized upon FOS as there are similarities in the nature of intent of the song. To be honest all this pales into insignificance when compared to real racist incidents viz the horrific murder of Stephen Lawrence.

We have gone through a remarkable period of inconsistency in the application of that which is deemed to be sectarian with Rangers fans coming off worst - this is now starting to take the same course.

Im surprised you are becoming so demeaning of Bears who appear to be trying to redress this balance when at the heart of this whole matter is a complaint by a club executive whose own fans deem it acceptable to sing songs glorifying terrorists who murder by reason of race or religion.

Totally agree DA. Its part of the propaganda war to divert attention away from the glorifying of terrorists and their attrocities and shift the focus on distrorted and trumped up charges that are no more than name-calling, school playground stuff. Truth is the first victim in war, and this propaganda war is led by Dr War himself.

[bluenose_jr 6]

Tin hat on, but here's a verse from GSTQ:

Lord grant that Marshal Wade

May by thy mighty aid Victory bring.

May he sedition hush,

And like a torrent rush,

Rebellious Scots to crush.

God save the Queen!

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Tin hat on, but here's a verse from GSTQ:

Lord grant that Marshal Wade

May by thy mighty aid Victory bring.

May he sedition hush,

And like a torrent rush,

Rebellious Scots to crush.

God save the Queen!

Been done before, that is not part of GSTQ.

But thank fuck Marshal Wade did crush the rebellious Scots, and saved us from the Stewart tyrants.

Bear in mind that there were more non rebellious Scots than rebellious at Culloden....