Murray insists it was his decision to sell Boyd

[airdrieloyal1 6]

It makes you wonder about the policy of signing players like McCulloch and Webster on 4 and 3 year contract's respectively.....

Time to see the fruits of Murray Park's labour, as if there was ever a time to see it, it would be now? Obviously not with Wattie in charge, expect to see an influx of dodgy loan players of English Championship standard.....

I won't be falling out of love with Rangers!

"The bottom line is we do not have enough pegs in the dressing room for the players we have in the first team.

Who signed 28 fuckin first team players FFS?

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

"People are asking how bad is it at Rangers? If we did not take this action, it could have been bad, but there are far worse situations developing aroundus and I will not allow it to spiral again. Rangers have to be run on a sound fiscal basis.

So let me get this right Mr Chairman....having to sell valuable players half way through a title challenge is "sound fiscal basis" ?

And what if Boyd does not want to move and deliberately prices himself out the move ?

Who will we sell next ?

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Well once he went to 4-4-2 this season, he's been an ever present under Smith.

So he's only been an ever present since Cousin left, before Naismith and Velicka (both of whom bring more to our game) get to full fitness and as long as the work-horse Miller is there to compensate for his glaring inadequacies?

Smith also gave him his Scotland debut and played him regularly up until he returned to Rangers as manager.

Like most fans, Smith will know Boyd's strenghts and weaknesses and has used the player suitably at Rangers and Scotland. As such, I very much doubt he would have wanted to sell his top goalscorer in January.

In the summer, possibly. But now, I doubt it. Certainly, I'd love to hear his comments on the matter as it would help demist the debate somewhat.

So he bought Miller, Naismith, Velicka and Lafferty, whilst still using Novo because he really rates Boyd despite rarely letting him start big games.

I suspect the Old Firm match merely confirmed Smith's assessment that Boyd is incapable of learning or improving, perhaps down to his own unprofessional attitude.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

So let me get this right Mr Chairman....having to sell valuable players half way through a title challenge is "sound fiscal basis" ?

And what if Boyd does not want to move and deliberately prices himself out the move ?

Who will we sell next ?

How valuable is Boyd to us? What has he done in big matches against big teams?

Should we maintain a 28 player squad as the recession hits the fans who are our spiritual and financial lifeblood?

[papaguy51 912]

I find that statement rather disingenuous.

It's not a case of not trusting Boyd but a case of different tactics for these games generally. Smith, both at Rangers and Scotland in recent years, tends to play 4-5-1 for tougher matches.

As such it makes sense not to play Boyd in these games as his game isn't good enough for such a role.

However, when one needs goals, Boyd will certainly help any teams chances and that's why he plays in most other games. In addition, I don't think anyone will deny Boyd's overall game has improved to a fair degree this season as well as still delivering more goals this ever.

I know, but I can't refuse a dig.

And Boyd's only proven me correct this season with the improvements to his game and fitness.

[Frankie 505]

So he's only been an ever present since Cousin left, before Naismith and Velicka (both of whom bring more to our game) get to full fitness and as long as the work-horse Miller is there to compensate for his glaring inadequacies?

So he bought Miller, Naismith, Velicka and Lafferty, whilst still using Novo because he really rates Boyd despite rarely letting him start big games.

I suspect the Old Firm match merely confirmed Smith's assessment that Boyd is incapable of learning or improving, perhaps down to his own unprofessional attitude.

Cousin was hardly an ever-present himself. Neither was Naismith who when he did play was used out wide (as is/was Novo) and Velicka is unproven for Rangers so not sure how you know he'll bring more to the team.

Like Boyd these players are used to maximise their contribution. Boyd is a poacher so of course the likes of Miller are used to compensate for the weaker parts of his game. As is the case in any forward line in football - or other area of the park for that matter.

As I say, none of us can judge Smith's motives RE: Boyd's transfer until he comments. It's strange and disappointing that he hasn't so far as it would perhaps stop supporters arguing with each other.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

I find that statement rather disingenuous.

It's not a case of not trusting Boyd but a case of different tactics for these games generally. Smith, both at Rangers and Scotland in recent years, tends to play 4-5-1 for tougher matches.

As such it makes sense not to play Boyd in these games as his game isn't good enough for such a role.

However, when one needs goals, Boyd will certainly help any teams chances and that's why he plays in most other games. In addition, I don't think anyone will deny Boyd's overall game has improved to a fair degree this season as well as still delivering more goals this ever.

I will. I think the "improvements" are both fleeting and negligible. He's still 95+% the exact same player.

[Frankie 505]

I will. I think the "improvements" are both fleeting and negligible. He's still 95+% the exact same player.

Well, I've seen marked improvements in his aerial game, his link-up play and his work-rate has also improved in my view.

But that's a subjective opinion and one you or others may not share.

The facts are, Boyd scores goals, lots of them and we're ill-equipped to lose him at this stage of the season, so selling him is extremely risky considering we're 5 points behind in the title race. No-one is saying he's a great player or that he couldn't be replaced but it's a huge gamble in January.

[ManchestGer 347]

Really dissapointed with this. I knew someone else would have had to make way in order to keep Ferguson

[papaguy51 912]

I will. I think the "improvements" are both fleeting and negligible. He's still 95+% the exact same player.

He's went from, quite frankly, a horrid footballer to an almost passable one - is that anything to shout about?

And in any case, I feel the improvements only happened because of the Scotland scenario. The fact that Burley couldn't trust him against two half decent centrebacks in Waehler and Hangeland against Norway probably hit it home to Boyd that he simply wasn't worth the risk, albeit my mum could have scored the chance we created.

Everyone slates Burley on here for that, but I think it was the trigger that made Boyd improve.

However, the undefendable thing that people often overlook is that it's taken him nearly four years to put the extra effort in. We should expect better.

[Frankie 505]

I remember it took the threat of being replaced to improve Ally McCoist's overall game and attitude under Souness... Boyd's contribution is a solid one and teams always need goals.

Is he the best player in the word? No.

Is he a reasonable player who can score goals and make a decent contribution to the team? Yes.

Is he irreplaceable? Of course not.

Does it make sense to sell our top scorer in January? Not for this bear.

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

Once again we look at the negatives and blame SDM and Walter but I find this part quite interesting:

Brahim Hemdani is intent on sitting tight for the final five months of his contract. If Rangers thought it possible that they could trim the fat from their squad, Boyd may have been retained.

Whilst we have players who are only putting their own financial interests first rather than wanting to play football they will continue to be a drain on our resources, how much is Hemdani on? £20,000/ £25,000 per week, it had also been reported recently that during the contract negotiations with Ferguson he will be asked to take a pay cut. SDM was also quite honest about the Kaunas debacle, they ALL expected that they would win, not just SDM but Walter and the players so they were all just a bit too blase about the situation, if we had qualified for the CL we would have needed a larger squad, and remember if we had Cuellar would never have instigated his buy out clause and we would never have had the money for Mendes and Davis.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Cousin was hardly an ever-present himself. Neither was Naismith who when he did play was used out wide (as is/was Novo) and Velicka is unproven for Rangers so not sure how you know he'll bring more to the team.

Like Boyd these players are used to maximise their contribution. Boyd is a poacher so of course the likes of Miller are used to compensate for the weaker parts of his game. As is the case in any forward line in football - or other area of the park for that matter.

As I say, none of us can judge Smith's motives RE: Boyd's transfer until he comments. It's strange and disappointing that he hasn't so far as it would perhaps stop supporters arguing with each other.

There's nothing wrong with debate, Frankie.

I just think the other guys offer more all round, especially when we need it and Boyd's not such a great asset.

[dezrfc1 26]

i can see what murrays sayin but tbh we shouldve got rid of half the donkeys in the summer instead of renewing contracts like dailys

[Frankie 505]

PIB:

In that case the chairman, manager and players all deserve huge criticism for being blase about what is annually one of the most important matches for the club. That is unacceptable given what is involved.

Similarly they deserve criticism for arguably not strengthening the correct areas before the game (we still spent over £6million on Lafferty, Velicka and Miller so the money was there) and for spending too much afterwards leaving us in the precarious financial position we're in now.

[papaguy51 912]

Once again we look at the negatives and blame SDM and Walter but I find this part quite interesting:

Whilst we have players who are only putting their own financial interests first rather than wanting to play football they will continue to be a drain on our resources, how much is Hemdani on? £20,000/ £25,000 per week, it had also been reported recently that during the contract negotiations with Ferguson he will be asked to take a pay cut. SDM was also quite honest about the Kaunas debacle, they ALL expected that they would win, not just SDM but Walter and the players so they were all just a bit too blase about the situation, if we had qualified for the CL we would have needed a larger squad, and remember if we had Cuellar would never have instigated his buy out clause and we would never have had the money for Mendes and Davis.

We always seem to offer ageing players these ridiculous bosman deals.

I've lost count of how many times I've seen the Hemdani situation.

Oh, and it was nothing short of a jape that he wasn't involved in the midfield v Kaunas while Lee McCulloch was

[Frankie 505]

There's nothing wrong with debate, Frankie.

I just think the other guys offer more all round, especially when we need it and Boyd's not such a great asset.

Who offers more all round?

Naismith - still not fully fit and used in more deeper roles.

Velicka - still not fully fit, linked with move out and unproven for Rangers.

Novo - linked with a move out, used in more deeper roles and seems to suffer from dips in form.

Lafferty - young, extremely raw, and used mainly in deeper roles. Also now injured for up to 8 weeks.

Miller - arguably the best all round forward but also suffering from a dip in form, foot problems and doesn't score enough.

Now, a combination of these players may well prove useful in time but without Boyd we remove the goal threat and that is a huge risk to take at this stage of the season.

Can we really afford to do so 5 points behind Celtic?

And, again, my argument isn't about Boyd per se; just the overall questionable strategy and ongoing performance of the club.

[McBoyd 355]

Sir David insists he has to balance the books and while he would have preferred to lose fringe players instead when Birmingham came calling for Boyd he gave the green light.

So he had to balance them RIGHT NOW with around £2.5 million?

How about waiting till the end of the year when we win the SPL?

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

Frankie: yes they do deserve criticism, the manager and the players with regards to the Kaunas debacle but actually I don't think SDM does for that, Walter picks the team and the players should perform, they are all professionals but they just took it for granted.

Papa: Hemdani is a class example, Rangers would let him go for nothing if he found a club which he could easily do, and he isn't the only one, we gave a year extension on contracts for what two older players, Dailly and Weir, Weir plays almost every week, and Dailly will be allowed to go if he finds a new club, I very much doubt that either will be on huge wages. Regarding Hemdani not playing, well McCulloch is supposed to be an experienced international with many caps, he is also supposed to have been a former striker playing in midfield so technically speaking a more attacking player, Hemdani is a defensive midfielder, and usually just plays in front of the back four, which one should be favourite to get a goal?

[Frankie 505]

Frankie: yes they do deserve criticism, the manager and the players with regards to the Kaunas debacle but actually I don't think SDM does for that, Walter picks the team and the players should perform, they are all professionals but they just took it for granted.

SDM deserves criticism for not asking why his manager wasn't strengthening the team correctly then giving him too much funds if the financial situation was so poor.

Of course it could be argued that the chairman shouldn't be involved in team affairs, so any criticism of SDM is less than is aimed at Smith for Kaunas, but he's still culpable nonetheless.

[papaguy51 912]

It's impossible to argue with Frankie's perfectly balanced (as ever) argument.

As much as I'm not that bothered about going, it would only be in the circumstance that we brought someone else in. Do I trust that our management have went out and lined someone up? Not a chance.

In such a case, it is a massive risk and one we probably shouldn't take.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Who offers more all round?

Naismith - still not fully fit and used in more deeper roles.

Velicka - still not fully fit, linked with move out and unproven for Rangers.

Novo - linked with a move out, used in more deeper roles and seems to suffer from dips in form.

Lafferty - young, extremely raw, and used mainly in deeper roles. Also now injured for up to 8 weeks.

Miller - arguably the best all round forward but also suffering from a dip in form, foot problems and doesn't score enough.

Now, a combination of these players may well prove useful in time but without Boyd we remove the goal threat and that is a huge risk to take at this stage of the season.

Can we really afford to do so 5 points behind Celtic?

And, again, my argument isn't about Boyd per se; just the overall questionable strategy and ongoing performance of the club.

I'd argue that Boyd is the main factor we struggle against certain teams.

Also, you can't use "linked with a move" against all those players but not Boyd. In fact, I'd describe Boyd as "prolific against the smaller teams, but anonymous against the better teams, lacking pace, strength, stamina, touch, vision, skill and the right attitude.

As for the players "used in more deeper roles", that doesn't rule out their ability up front. Indeed, the mobility and speed of a Lafferty, Novo or Naismith, either with Miller or as part of a duo from that trio, would be much more effective in my view. Velicka's also a better target man than Boyd, with more physical presence.

We have nothing top be fearful over, in relation to this move, other than a few more goals in trouncings of the lower order teams, but I think that comes with added points against the better teams.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Frankie: yes they do deserve criticism, the manager and the players with regards to the Kaunas debacle but actually I don't think SDM does for that, Walter picks the team and the players should perform, they are all professionals but they just took it for granted.

Papa: Hemdani is a class example, Rangers would let him go for nothing if he found a club which he could easily do, and he isn't the only one, we gave a year extension on contracts for what two older players, Dailly and Weir, Weir plays almost every week, and Dailly will be allowed to go if he finds a new club, I very much doubt that either will be on huge wages. Regarding Hemdani not playing, well McCulloch is supposed to be an experienced international with many caps, he is also supposed to have been a former striker playing in midfield so technically speaking a more attacking player, Hemdani is a defensive midfielder, and usually just plays in front of the back four, which one should be favourite to get a goal?

I largely agree with that.

SDM deserves criticism for not asking why his manager wasn't strengthening the team correctly then giving him too much funds if the financial situation was so poor.

Of course it could be argued that the chairman shouldn't be involved in team affairs, so any criticism of SDM is less than is aimed at Smith for Kaunas, but he's still culpable nonetheless.

I disagree with that, since I think Murray's as good a chairman as there is in modern football. I certainly wouldn't want a a Desmond, Romanov, Abramovic or Lowe.

It's impossible to argue with Frankie's perfectly balanced (as ever) argument.

I don't think it's impossible at all. Many of the criticisms are based upon misinformation.

As much as I'm not that bothered about going, it would only be in the circumstance that we brought someone else in. Do I trust that our management have went out and lined someone up? Not a chance.

In such a case, it is a massive risk and one we probably shouldn't take.

I really don't think we need any more strikers. A wide man, a full back and a centre back would be nice, but barring the latter, I'm not sure there are any necessities.

[dummiesoot 16,115]

I'd argue that Boyd is the main factor we struggle against certain teams.

Also, you can't use "linked with a move" against all those players but not Boyd. In fact, I'd describe Boyd as "prolific against the smaller teams, but anonymous against the better teams, lacking pace, strength, stamina, touch, vision, skill and the right attitude.

As for the players "used in more deeper roles", that doesn't rule out their ability up front. Indeed, the mobility and speed of a Lafferty, Novo or Naismith, either with Miller or as part of a duo from that trio, would be much more effective in my view. Velicka's also a better target man than Boyd, with more physical presence.

We have nothing top be fearful over, in relation to this move, other than a few more goals in trouncings of the lower order teams, but I think that comes with added points against the better teams.

Why, if Boyd does not do it v bigger teams and Boyd did not play away matches against these teams last season, did we only win one game v the top 6 away from home? Perhaps given that Boyd has an almost goal per game avaerage v the bigger teams in the SPL we could possibly have won more if Boyd had indeed started these matches? It is afterall the primary reason why we never won the league.

[Frankie 505]

I'd argue that Boyd is the main factor we struggle against certain teams.

Also, you can't use "linked with a move" against all those players but not Boyd. In fact, I'd describe Boyd as "prolific against the smaller teams, but anonymous against the better teams, lacking pace, strength, stamina, touch, vision, skill and the right attitude.

As for the players "used in more deeper roles", that doesn't rule out their ability up front. Indeed, the mobility and speed of a Lafferty, Novo or Naismith, either with Miller or as part of a duo from that trio, would be much more effective in my view. Velicka's also a better target man than Boyd, with more physical presence.

We have nothing top be fearful over, in relation to this move, other than a few more goals in trouncings of the lower order teams, but I think that comes with added points against the better teams.

I disagree. Boyd's goals come against more than trouncings of lower order teams. The loss of his 20 goals so far this season would have caused us problems and while he may not score another 20 for the rest of the campaign to deny they wouldn't be missed is surprising.

And, again, my argument isn't about Boyd per se; just the overall questionable strategy and ongoing performance of the club.