"Fenians" and scots law

[Ricky_ 893]

I've been reading over some of the threads recently regarding TBB and clicked on a link that was posted by a user to the Met Police's website.

This is the link: http://www.met.police.uk/history/fenians.htm

"The Fenians were 19th Century Irish Nationalists organised in 1858 as the Irish Republican Brotherhood in Ireland, and in 1867 as the Clan na Gael in the US. The name derives from old Irish 'Fianna', legendary Irish warriors whose name became an Irish term for soldiers."

At what point did the law in this country become a complete and utter mockery? This word is only outlawed by the thought police, by prosecutors and judges who claim "when you say that word, you don't really mean republican terrorist scum or their sympathisers, but you mean a catholic".

The current position on this term is making a mockery of the legal system in this country. I would be more than happy for Charlie Green to get behind the fans on this one and use small pot from the £22m raised and maybe even if theres anything left over from the RFF to enourage the fans to belt out TBB in all it's glory then pay for some half decent laywers.

Any lawyer worth his salt could surely quash legal verdicts which absurdly brandish the term "sectarian" when the MET POLICE THEMSELVES describe the definiation of a fenian as a 'republican warrior'. It's on a par with claiming in a court of law you are not allowed to hate Al-Queda because Al-Queda is a term which offends all Muslims.

[Gers1690 194]

Well said...

[govanblue 16,847]

That's what I've been trying to say - but not as convincingly as you just have.

[eosmhdo 1,879]

Met police and Scottish law are different.

And there's their excuse right there

[RFC55 108,921]

I've been reading over some of the threads recently regarding TBB and clicked on a link that was posted by a user to the Met Police's website.

This is the link: http://www.met.police.uk/history/fenians.htm

"The Fenians were 19th Century Irish Nationalists organised in 1858 as the Irish Republican Brotherhood in Ireland, and in 1867 as the Clan na Gael in the US. The name derives from old Irish 'Fianna', legendary Irish warriors whose name became an Irish term for soldiers."

At what point did the law in this country become a complete and utter mockery? This word is only outlawed by the thought police, by prosecutors and judges who claim "when you say that word, you don't really mean republican terrorist scum or their sympathisers, but you mean a catholic".

The current position on this term is making a mockery of the legal system in this country. I would be more than happy for Charlie Green to get behind the fans on this one and use small pot from the £22m raised and maybe even if theres anything left over from the RFF to enourage the fans to belt out TBB in all it's glory then pay for some half decent laywers.

Any lawyer worth his salt could surely quash legal verdicts which absurdly brandish the term "sectarian" when the MET POLICE THEMSELVES describe the definiation of a fenian as a 'republican warrior'. It's on a par with claiming in a court of law you are not allowed to hate Al-Queda because Al-Queda is a term which offends all Muslims.

We know all this mate and I've yet to see anyone disagree but how do we change what now seems to the the law. As mentioned elsewhere i was at court the other month (not for me btw) and a guy was fined for it at the big walk. Although pleading guilty is about the dumbest thing you can do

[Gaz92 966]

At least this topic isn't getting old....

What's the obsession about wanting to say this word at a football match?

[govanblue 16,847]

At least this topic isn't getting old....

What's the obsession about wanting to say this word at a football match?

What's the obsession with people not wanting us to say it?

And I don't mean you specifically, Gaz.

[Ricky_ 893]

At least this topic isn't getting old....

What's the obsession about wanting to say this word at a football match?

not really an obsession, it's more a feeling of having some basic rights quashed to be appease ra sellick fans.

[rossDas 1,071]

I've always said that the evidence of the context is in the line "surrender or you'll die" which strongly suggests that the song is aimed at violent dissidents.

This is an example of what happens when a group fails to realise that the propaganda battle is an ongoing one - something our enemies understand and exploit all too well - and that it's not enough to be merely correct; what worth has the actual truth if allowed to be buried beneath an avalanche of mass-produced free-range bullshit? We should have fought our corner sooner.

[govanblue 16,847]

We know all this mate and I've yet to see anyone disagree but how do we change what now seems to the the law. As mentioned elsewhere i was at court the other month (not for me btw) and a guy was fined for it at the big walk. Although pleading guilty is about the dumbest thing you can do

By pleading 'Not Guilty'? and then showing that it's NOT the law?

[californiadreamin52 339]

It`s like black guys rappers etc. can use the “N” word, but if your white give it a go and see who far it gets you

[Ricky_ 893]

It`s like black guys rappers etc. can use the “N” word, but if your white give it a go and see who far it gets you

i don't buy this arguement.

the definition of "n***er" has always reffered to a blackman. It is widely accepted now in our country and in the USA aswell as most countries around the world to be a derogatory term for a black person.

Fenian has never at any point been a derogatory term for a Catholic, the definition of the word has no relation to ones religion.

[Big Al 55 9,252]

I thought it was the way the term is used that becomes racist or sectarian rather than the term itself, i.e. any term used to refer to a group of people in a derogatory fashion can be regarded as sectarian or racist.

Maybe wrong but that was always my interpretation of the law.

It's not necessarily the word or term but how it is used.

[allcinaye 336]

I think we as Rangers supporters have been hoodwinked into accepting this miscarriage of justice by a controlling minority with a bigoted agenda.

[8watp8 254]

well said, i will continue to use it and hope one day the law will change, fucking joke

[Bad Robot 21,150]

I thought it was the way the term is used that becomes racist or sectarian rather than the term itself, i.e. any term used to refer to a group of people in a derogatory fashion can be regarded as sectarian or racist.

Maybe wrong but that was always my interpretation of the law.

It's not necessarily the word or term but how it is used.

I totally agree with you here and the law most of the time falls on the side of the 'alleged' victim and their intepretation rather than the persons who has said it and what they think it means.

[ovenwash 13]

I thought it was the way the term is used that becomes racist or sectarian rather than the term itself, i.e. any term used to refer to a group of people in a derogatory fashion can be regarded as sectarian or racist.

Maybe wrong but that was always my interpretation of the law.

It's not necessarily the word or term but how it is used.

Thats the way i see it. If you use the word bastard after Fenian or h** then it becomes legally an offence. But the word Fenian or h** on its own is not an offence

[Bad Robot 21,150]

I think we as Rangers supporters have been hoodwinked into accepting this miscarriage of justice by a controlling minority with a bigoted agenda.

They aren't a minority anymore but they are certainly controlling and bigoted.

[Big Al 55 9,252]

I totally agree with you here and the law most of the time falls on the side of the 'alleged' victim and their intepretation rather than the persons who has said it and what they think it means.

Yes unfortunately it will always come down to arguing what was really meant in a court of law, we know who will be the winner there.

When I use it, it is meant to be derogatory, straightforward really in my case.

[Bad Robot 21,150]

Thats the way i see it. If you use the word bastard after Fenian or h** then it becomes legally an offence. But the word Fenian or h** on its own is not an offence

Agree with the first part but the word 'Fenian' depends on the context but the word 'h**' when referred to Rangers supporters, Protestants, Royal family is always derogatory.

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

It is how the word is used that makes it bigoted. We know that a Fenian is not a catholic in the correct use of the word, but people have been and still use the word as a way to abuse catholics. It is sadly the case.

[Bad Robot 21,150]

Yes unfortunately it will always come down to arguing what was really meant in a court of law, we know who will be the winner there.

When I use it, it is meant to be derogatory, straightforward really in my case.

lol same goes as I interpret as a scum supporter, RC church goer, irish republican, irish terrorist and ancient Irish tribe. I will never dress it up as something else to suit a different agenda as these have always been my personal feelings/interpretation.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

It is how the word is used that makes it bigoted. We know that a Fenian is not a catholic in the correct use of the word, but people have been and still use the word as a way to abuse catholics. It is sadly the case.

So if we call them PAEDOPHILES will they have that word outlawed as sectarian as well?

Where do we draw the line?

Bheasts?

Tims?

Brothmouths?

It's about football banter, it's just that they being the cradle to grave victims they are cannot take it

[RFC55 108,921]

It is how the word is used that makes it bigoted. We know that a Fenian is not a catholic in the correct use of the word, but people have been and still use the word as a way to abuse catholics. It is sadly the case.

The sad thing is that the terriers claimed penny arcade is about a sectarian killing at some amusement arcade. Our socks are to represent Fenian blood. We had dishes on our menus that came to £16.90, the famine song is racist. I really could go on and on and on with the shite they spout.

[Ricky_ 893]

It is how the word is used that makes it bigoted. We know that a Fenian is not a catholic in the correct use of the word, but people have been and still use the word as a way to abuse catholics. It is sadly the case.

so what makes the term "h**" any different? I've seen the term used hundreds of times on twitter, facebook, overheard convos in buses on trains etc... where the word clearly meant to mean a protestant. For example, a couple of tims talking about a burd ... "Is she a h**?" - they're clearly enquirying if she's "one of us, or one of them" prod/catholic.