Ted E Bayer 485 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I'm confused. Can someone explain why we need to then buy any youngsters we bring through the ranks at Murray Park...Confused bear... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papaguy51 912 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 The talent spotters need their baws felt on this issue.I'm sure we all know a person who we think could easily be good enough for a team like Rangers with a bit of tutoring...god, I even know a few boys that could probably get a game just now! Some of the things they can do with a football are unbelievable.Murray Park has NOT lived up to expectation so far, but I'll review it after 10 years before delivering an accurate opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Nope think he's meaning the set up whereby we have to pay for youngsters coming through from Murray Park...that right Ted ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangersross 6,538 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Is it really Rangers fault or are Scottish youngsters simply not good enough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papaguy51 912 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Ahh you mean pay for them signing a professional contract with us after we've trained then and decided they're good enough?Understand now...is it not another one of these recent ridiculous UEFA rulings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted E Bayer 485 Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Nope think he's meaning the set up whereby we have to pay for youngsters coming through from Murray Park...that right Ted ?Exactly DA. Just heard on the radio that any youngster coming through the rank at Murray Park who finally makes the transition to the First team had to be then "bought". My question is bought from who and why on earth do we not own for want of a better word our own youth players at Murray Park!!!?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangersross 6,538 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Ahh you mean pay for them signing a professional contract with us after we've trained then and decided they're good enough?Understand now...is it not another one of these recent ridiculous UEFA rulings?Who do they pay I cant imagine boys clubs demanding £10k etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted E Bayer 485 Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Ahh you mean pay for them signing a professional contract with us after we've trained then and decided they're good enough?Understand now...is it not another one of these recent ridiculous UEFA rulings?No no, it was just suggested that we do not own our own youth players and that we will need to pay for them, (i.e. buy them) then give them a contract. I'm not aware of any other Scottish or British club not owning their own players....Can anyone explain this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papaguy51 912 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 B)-->QUOTE(Ted I B @ Feb 19 2007, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ahh you mean pay for them signing a professional contract with us after we've trained then and decided they're good enough?Understand now...is it not another one of these recent ridiculous UEFA rulings?No no, it was just suggested that we do not own our own youth players and that we will need to pay for them. I'm not aware of any other Scottish or British club not owning thier own players....Can anyone explain this?Its that bizarre I can't get my head round it.Surely if they sign youth contracts, a 'free' progression to professional contracts is written into it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangersross 6,538 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 B)-->QUOTE(Ted I B @ Feb 19 2007, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ahh you mean pay for them signing a professional contract with us after we've trained then and decided they're good enough?Understand now...is it not another one of these recent ridiculous UEFA rulings?No no, it was just suggested that we do not own our own youth players and that we will need to pay for them, (i.e. buy them) then give them a contract. I'm not aware of any other Scottish or British club not owning their own players....Can anyone explain this?Confusing, are all Rangers youth players all on a sort of extended trial Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac444 6 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 B)-->QUOTE(Ted I B @ Feb 19 2007, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ahh you mean pay for them signing a professional contract with us after we've trained then and decided they're good enough?Understand now...is it not another one of these recent ridiculous UEFA rulings?No no, it was just suggested that we do not own our own youth players and that we will need to pay for them, (i.e. buy them) then give them a contract. I'm not aware of any other Scottish or British club not owning their own players....Can anyone explain this?I'm sure that a company was set up, owned by Rangers, which Rangers FC have to pay for any youth team player that makes the grade to basically covers any overheads encurred by training the players etc. I think it was just to allow easier accounting etc. Seeing as though they are treated as two totally seperate teams, one that Walter Smith runs, and one that Jimmy Sinclair runs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 There is a company Mac but I cant remember the name at the mo.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac444 6 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 B) --><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ted I B @ Feb 19 2007, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ahh you mean pay for them signing a professional contract with us after we've trained then and decided they're good enough?Understand now...is it not another one of these recent ridiculous UEFA rulings?No no, it was just suggested that we do not own our own youth players and that we will need to pay for them, (i.e. buy them) then give them a contract. I'm not aware of any other Scottish or British club not owning their own players....Can anyone explain this?I'm sure that a company was set up, owned by Rangers, which Rangers FC have to pay for any youth team player that makes the grade to basically covers any overheads encurred by training the players etc. I think it was just to allow easier accounting etc. Seeing as though they are treated as two totally seperate teams, one that Walter Smith runs, and one that Jimmy Sinclair runs.There is Mac but I cant for the life of me remember the name at the mo...Was it not just Rangers Youth PLC or something similar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Youth CompanyA bit of an explanation here Ted...but as to how it all works... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibroxblue 122 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 It's just financial juggling. Rangers Youth Development is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Rangers. One purpose of it, I believe, was to ring-fence the investment that went into RYD from the black hole of debt that the club itself had at that time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted E Bayer 485 Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 It's a little clearer I guess. Thanks lads Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupertinoger 0 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 As IbroxBlue mentioned its a separate youth company owned by Rangers which has its own P&L and uses all funds generated by youth to maintain itself, I think I even read somewhere that any player that makes it into the first team (Stevie Smith being one recent example) then the youth company receives some renumeration from Rangers, but dont quote me on thatI read Walters article about the state of the youth setup and I have to admit it makes me mad.... I mean why invest 15M in a state of the art set of training pitches and facilities if you dont plan to maximise its potential, I blame Murray and Mcleish, I think had Advocaat stayed long enough he would have setup a proper system, but from the moment Mcleish arrived he started looking for the quick fix so in come players like Capucho, Ostenstadt, Mladenovic etc if I were Murray should have told Mcleish in no uncertain terms that he had better start using it as we are not shelling out on foreign mercenaries Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 You are right Cuper we def did pay some kind of renumeration recently for one of the Murray Park youngsters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac444 6 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 The thing with Murray Park is that it ISNT a Youth Academy, merely a training facility large enough to encompass all Rangers teams from 1st team through to the youth teams. If you look at other big clubs in the EPL (yes we don't have their money but maybe we should be looking into this sort of thing) they have a state of the art training facility like Murray Park and a fully fledged Youth Academy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albahighlander 0 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Rangers Youth Developement (RYD) is actually a very logical and effective system of running the youth programme. It was rubished at the time by a number of those who were anti-Murray. They made all sorts of wild accusations and created farcical hypothetical situations which obviously never arose.The principle is simple.Rangers youth system was costing x million to run. It was a system which was failing to produce value for money. For each player who Rangers invested money in training in the youth programme and who made it to the first team, there were perhaps 10 or more who didn't. We were effectivelyt therefore paying to develop players for other clubs in the hope of maybe finding one for ourselves.The concept of RYD therefore tried to address that.An initial sum to set up the scheme was invested by 4 Rangers supporters. After that, Rangers would no longer pay the running costs for the programme at youth level. The running costs would be generated by the programme itself. Hence the huge increase in the community programmes which are quite a lucrative market. The profits from these money makers were put back into the running of the 'elite' programme.These funds were supplemented by Rangers 'buying' a player who succeeded in making it to the first team after a set number of games. Rangers were obviously not buying the player at all since they always held his registration. The proper term was 'paying' for the player by making a donation to the running costs. So now, Rangers only 'paid' for those who made it through the grades. The question of whether Murray park will ever succeed in producing genuine players of quality is an alltogether different and more complex one.In my opinion, Rangers are at the mercy of the Scottish system here, and unfortunately, the influence of the Scottish Football Association and tghe West of Scotland culture, and our outdated sports structure in general militate against developing genuine talent.That is the background against which Murray park has to fight.; Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftyger 0 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Rangers Youth Developement (RYD) is actually a very logical and effective system of running the youth programme. It was rubished at the time by a number of those who were anti-Murray. They made all sorts of wild accusations and created farcical hypothetical situations which obviously never arose.The principle is simple.Rangers youth system was costing x million to run. It was a system which was failing to produce value for money. For each player who Rangers invested money in training in the youth programme and who made it to the first team, there were perhaps 10 or more who didn't. We were effectivelyt therefore paying to develop players for other clubs in the hope of maybe finding one for ourselves.The concept of RYD therefore tried to address that.An initial sum to set up the scheme was invested by 4 Rangers supporters. After that, Rangers would no longer pay the running costs for the programme at youth level. The running costs would be generated by the programme itself. Hence the huge increase in the community programmes which are quite a lucrative market. The profits from these money makers were put back into the running of the 'elite' programme.These funds were supplemented by Rangers 'buying' a player who succeeded in making it to the first team after a set number of games. Rangers were obviously not buying the player at all since they always held his registration. The proper term was 'paying' for the player by making a donation to the running costs. So now, Rangers only 'paid' for those who made it through the grades.To me it seems that ultimately the money comes out of the pockets of Rangers fans, either in the form of parents paying for their kids to take part in the community programmes or via the normal revenue streams, so I don't see the difference from a fans perspective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briton 394 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 It's just financial juggling. Rangers Youth Development is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Rangers. One purpose of it, I believe, was to ring-fence the investment that went into RYD from the black hole of debt that the club itself had at that time.I thought it was a good idea when first announced. Thet also get the money if Rangers don't want a player and he's sold to another club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
docspiderman 1,249 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I had a conversation with an ex player who was a youth coach at Rangers some years ago when the spl were bringing in the ill fated under 21 league.He maintained it would be a waste of time and would not last as " if a player has not shown he could play in the first team by the time he was 18 or 19 he wil not play much of a part at Ibrox and will be moved on" The one he tipped at the time to make it was Boyack!Look at the young players who have left the club in the last year and you will see this is still the case: central defenders McKenzie and McLean, Midfielders McCormack, N'Guession, Gilmour, forwards Carcary, Davidson, going back a couple of years there were Duffy and McLean who scored loads in the reserves.There is little chance for youngsters to progress, whether it is due to the set up, scouting, selection of talent or just the fact that we want immediate success and are not prepared to gamble on youth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggy07 5 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Dont hold your breath that Murray Park will produce young talent coming through. Rangers FC have a poor history of producing there own.Its all down to the coaching staff to nurture the kids through. Walter came out recently and said that he brought through young guys kids like Spencer, McSwegan, morrow, Hagan and murray, but at that time we had the U/18 captains of England, Scotland and various other international represented youths...none of them ever made it. I was there at that stage and although I admit I was not good enough to play in front of Coisty, Hately Johnstone and co, the coaching set up for the kids was nothing short of shocking. The system took a hit the minute Jimmy Nichol left. John Mcgregor and Davie Dodds were left in charge of the young guys coming through and all they ever did was abuse kids and play 5 a sides. Diets and overall football education, professional expectations etc was never on the agenda...ever. I remember a certain coach say to a player in the dressing room at half time of a BP youth team game against Celtic, that if the said player would ever become a player , the coach stated that he would join the nunnery ! And we were winning...eventually lost 2-1...not surprised with that kind of inspiration from the coach. They surely cannot expect young guys to nurture themselves. Time to get the right coaching staff in for the young guys to bring them through with encouragement and enthusiasm ala Fergie at United. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggy07 5 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Well, no one got a reply to this?The fish might be right....head in he sandMind you ...dont you just love Coisty? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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