End of an Era?

[Danny 9]

How does it feel to you all that the days of Rangers being consistently #1 in this country are well and truly a thing of the past?

Problem is so many bears, myself included, were absolutely spoiled by 9IAR - so many were made to feel like that was the norm, and not an exception. Yes, we have won the most SPL titles, but 9IAR took domestic dominance to a level only the Lisbon Lions were capable of. And the major problem is we became SO used to it, that even a decade later, we still believe it's our divine right to be the dominant SPL force, and to be a league ahead of Celtic.

So a lot of the grief we're feeling and in-fighting is very much a hangover from 9IAR, and our inability to adjust to being second rate.

And, my bears, we ARE second rate. We have some good players, even one or two EXCELLENT players, but we do not have anything like a good team, never mind an excellent one.

What I am trying to say is I believe too many bears are waiting for success we're never going to have again. Yes, we WILL win the SPL again, YES we will always be in and around European competition, but 9IAR was an exception; it was a time when all the ingredients worked and we had a world class squad. We had money, we had allure, a great manager - everything was spot on.

That's gone now, and we are a pale shadow of that; we're just a decent SPL team who happen to be blessed by playing for the mighty name of Rangers.

We will always be proud bears, and will always bleed blue, but we will never again be #1 in the way so many bears took for granted.

[papaguy51 912]

I wish this wasn't true, but I have to agree.

I don't think any team in ANY major European league will ever win any more than maybe 6 titles in a row ever again, at least not for the next 25 years.

[Briton 394]

Don't forget that history goes back further than the Celtic 9IAR team. I become a fan near the end of that and I've seen more Celtic championships than Rangers. My father on the other hand had seen more Rangers wins than Celtic. There are periods of dominance going back even further than his time. We'll probably have another one and I don't see how you have any reason to say we wont. I tell you one thing. For me it's nowhere near as depressing as during the eighties. I did begin to wonder if we'd ever revive.

[leftyger 0]

How does it feel to you all that the days of Rangers being consistently #1 in this country are well and truly a thing of the past?

Problem is so many bears, myself included, were absolutely spoiled by 9IAR - so many were made to feel like that was the norm, and not an exception. Yes, we have won the most SPL titles, but 9IAR took domestic dominance to a level only the Lisbon Lions were capable of. And the major problem is we became SO used to it, that even a decade later, we still believe it's our divine right to be the dominant SPL force, and to be a league ahead of Celtic.

So a lot of the grief we're feeling and in-fighting is very much a hangover from 9IAR, and our inability to adjust to being second rate.

And, my bears, we ARE second rate. We have some good players, even one or two EXCELLENT players, but we do not have anything like a good team, never mind an excellent one.

What I am trying to say is I believe too many bears are waiting for success we're never going to have again. Yes, we WILL win the SPL again, YES we will always be in and around European competition, but 9IAR was an exception; it was a time when all the ingredients worked and we had a world class squad. We had money, we had allure, a great manager - everything was spot on.

That's gone now, and we are a pale shadow of that; we're just a decent SPL team who happen to be blessed by playing for the mighty name of Rangers.

We will always be proud bears, and will always bleed blue, but we will never again be #1 in the way so many bears took for granted.

A very good post. I still believe that we can not return to the glory days - maybe not of NIAR but certainly the days of the first Wallace period (three championships in four years - including two trebles in three seasons) or the early dick years (five domestic trophies out of six).

But what we need is for people to realise the big money days are gone and they aren't coming back . If we are going to develop a successful side it will be done by developing home grown talent and some judicious dealings in the transfer market to add extra class. It ain't going to happen over night but there is no reason why it can't happen over the next two to three years.

[thebiggerfella 0]

Call me an optimist but i truly believe that the good times will come back. It may take years but we will be back as strong as before. It might take a new owner,many managers to get there but we will be back.

I'm willing to wait however long it takes.

WATP

[minstral 5,375]

spot on danny and it hurts to say it but we will never ever win 9 in a row well not in my lifetime,and as you say we are only a shadow of the great team that some fans have been spoiled with.i can always remember when celtic done the nine, and talk about the pain it hurt that much that depression was setting in having to take all the slagging from my celtic pals and the money i lost betting with them that we would win it the next season, and after nine years it cost me a fortune. but even during that bad time we won our first european trophy and i also think it will be our last then came our nine and thats when a lot of our fans started supporting our club,but now that thing are not to good at the moment we have fans arguing and fighting amongst ourselves which is very sad to see as at this time when we are struggling we need a strong united rangers support. to me rangers are my life through good and bad times but i dont think we will get back to the nine in a row days unless we can get a buyer with loads of money, but even then it might not guarantee success but we will still be rangers fans until the day we die.

[Baileyseye 0]

Try and be patient, you just have to look at the history of Scottish football to see that it does not take long for the gers to dominate Scottish football. The glory days of NIAR will take some beating to get that standard back. I started supporting the gers the same season that the Celtic started their NIAR. We will get there again. (header)

[Albahighlander 0]

I was brought up on Celtic's nine in a row and therefore I don't have any difficulties with barren years. I do have a problem however with a lack of activity to address the deficiencies.

Many of these who grew up on the nine in a row of Rangers are only in it for the glory. They are unable to understand the 'we welcome the chase' quote, and in particular the 'Never fear, inevitably we shall have our years of failure, and when they arrive, we must reveal tolerance and sanity.'

In my opinion, PLG represented the one opportunity in a period of transition to change our fortunes dramatically. But his way would not have been the instant way, and that is what too many of our support failed to understand. His way was the long term way. It involved dramatic c hange to the background of the club. What happened this year was always going to be about superficial change in the team whilst underlying change to the culture of how we prepared for games, the style of football, the mentality we displayed was given root and branch change.

I was prepared therefore to put up with inconsistent results. I was prepared to put up with poor purchases because of the market we were consigned to. I was prepared to put up a lot in the hope of seeing the club re-structured in a way which would bring about long term European progress.

There were enough signs for me to see that there was the prospect of a different way. Unfortunately, he did not have the fight to see through what he saw as the essential ingredients of change, and he gave up on us when we needed him most.

Now we are left with the lunatics running the asylum.

It is now entirely in the hands of Celtic whether they achieve Nine in a row again or not.

[cupertinoger 0]

Football like everything else in life (money, politics, environment) is cyclical and we are in a period of recession, due mainly to the cost incurred of that NIAR team as well as Mr Advocaat's pursuit of European success...it was all self inflicted and now we have to live with the cost of chasing the dream.... I too spent a large part of my time at Ibrox during this period and it was just an amazing ride to watch Laudrup, Gazza, Albertz and many others steamroller teams week in and out but now we have to get real, football outside the top leagues of EPL, Italy, Spain basically imploded due to spending considerably more than they earn and even the ITV digital collapse is still being felt by some lower league English teams so we are not alone.

I think that both OF teams now have their houses in decent financial order, it has been painful to watch us signing dross for the last 4 years (except Prso and Boumsong of course) and even worse to watch us paying that dross to leave but I think the worst is over, our debt is now managable, we are suffering due to lack of CL money but hopefully that will be rectified next season we have a nucleus of young scottish talent which will improve in the coming seasons, I am sure Walter will get some money in the summer, he hasnt spent anything yet as we more or less offset Thompson fee with Clement, so there should be some money, I hope we can get Brown, a quality striker and an attacking LM.

Back to your point though, I agree that we did reach that level of expectation, and they do say that familiarity breeds contempt but I think we are getting back on track, and while we may not win the SPL next season I fully expect us to go to the wire.

My biggest hope is that we finally sort out our youth policy and get Murray Park to be what it should always have been ..................a conveyor belt of talent... I would love to see young Fleck, Lennon, Lowing, Smith and others being the foundation of the next NIAR team!!!

[nvager 498]

Football like everything else in life (money, politics, environment) is cyclical and we are in a period of recession, due mainly to the cost incurred of that NIAR team as well as Mr Advocaat's pursuit of European success...it was all self inflicted and now we have to live with the cost of chasing the dream.... I too spent a large part of my time at Ibrox during this period and it was just an amazing ride to watch Laudrup, Gazza, Albertz and many others steamroller teams week in and out but now we have to get real, football outside the top leagues of EPL, Italy, Spain basically imploded due to spending considerably more than they earn and even the ITV digital collapse is still being felt by some lower league English teams so we are not alone.

I think that both OF teams now have their houses in decent financial order, it has been painful to watch us signing dross for the last 4 years (except Prso and Boumsong of course) and even worse to watch us paying that dross to leave but I think the worst is over, our debt is now managable, we are suffering due to lack of CL money but hopefully that will be rectified next season we have a nucleus of young scottish talent which will improve in the coming seasons, I am sure Walter will get some money in the summer, he hasnt spent anything yet as we more or less offset Thompson fee with Clement, so there should be some money, I hope we can get Brown, a quality striker and an attacking LM.

Back to your point though, I agree that we did reach that level of expectation, and they do say that familiarity breeds contempt but I think we are getting back on track, and while we may not win the SPL next season I fully expect us to go to the wire.

My biggest hope is that we finally sort out our youth policy and get Murray Park to be what it should always have been ..................a conveyor belt of talent... I would love to see young Fleck, Lennon, Lowing, Smith and others being the foundation of the next NIAR team!!!

Agreed cupertinoger! Agreed.

Alba - Forget PLG - put the PLG/BF thing behind you. I see what you are saying and there is something to the culture thing, but PLG was never the man to save us.

Danny - Do not be so damn pessimistic.

Its cyclical!

Heres what needs to be done:

1. WS gets us 2nd place.

2. SDM gives WS enough money combined with some wages saved and WS signs THREE QUALITY players (CH, M/F and Striker) plus two or three real grafters.

3. We compete in SPL and CL.

4. NEXT Summer we do the same thing - Another THREE Quality players and some grafters PLUS MURRAY PARK YOUTH COMING THROUGH.

5. WE can beat Celtic and hold up our heads again.

Season after next we are back BIG TIME. (SPL anyway)

So cheer up and see the positives!

[Albahighlander 0]

But the flaw in your argument nvager is that you all but admit that we have to limit ourselves to the SPL. My ambitions are not there any more. The SPL is a vastly inferior product. And yet to compete in that we are having to get SDM to spend millions again.

This needs root and branch change within the club. It is no longer about PLG for me, he let us down by chucking the fight, but PLG represents the way ahead and too many of our fans sacrificed the long term good for the short term gain, without having the guarantee of any short term gain at all, indeed the possibility of increasing the problem.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Like many of the older Bears barren years are not unknown for this Bear.

I rememeber the immense joy when Colin Stein's header at Easter Road brought to an end the many years of league famine.

However the way things are going at present I can see another term of extended famine unfortunately.

Sorry if this adds to the current feeling of doom & gloom and the deep sense of negativity....but facts are facts. The current Celtic squad is miles better than us...just have a look at the league.....with the prospect of them spending more than us in the summer due to their CL revenue.

[stevenage bear 5]

Never say never.

We will be back and we will be the dominate force in Scottish footbal, that is our rightful place.

Yes it will take time, but, it will happen.

Dartangan has already outlined the fact we have had barren years before, I was at Easter road to see the game he talks about and yes the eighties team was bad with no sign of it getting better, but it did.

Murray will be gone and new blood will help us back to where we belong.

It will take time and money BUT we are the people and we will come out of this stronger

[Gaffbear 4,106]

Having followed the bears loyaly for nearly 30 years the early 80's when we were getting humped by Aberdeen,Dundee Utd and Celtic times were hard,there was little investment with the exception of our 2 record signings at the time from Dundee.Ian Redford and Ian Ferguson.The crowds dropped but being young i just wanted to follow my team.

Then after 9 long years the year Souness arrived we got the draw at Pittodrie and it was brilliant,on the park drunk as a monkey and having a great time.

We then went on to dominate for years and got used to it.This barron spell is what we need to weed out the glory hunters and get the bears back and see the real BEARS.

WATP

[robinsonmetcalf 0]

But the flaw in your argument nvager is that you all but admit that we have to limit ourselves to the SPL. My ambitions are not there any more. The SPL is a vastly inferior product. And yet to compete in that we are having to get SDM to spend millions again.

This needs root and branch change within the club. It is no longer about PLG for me, he let us down by chucking the fight, but PLG represents the way ahead and too many of our fans sacrificed the long term good for the short term gain, without having the guarantee of any short term gain at all, indeed the possibility of increasing the problem.

Yes it is strange that some people look back to NIAR as exemplifying the most successful football Rangers played over the last twenty years. When Murray hired advocaat he said that it was in order to take Rangers to another level. By this he meant that Rangers' record in Europe under WS had been extremely poor even with NIAR (even with Gazza and Laudrup - think Juventus and Ajax to name but two [Juventus hammered us]). And Advocaat did do this.

But now our ambitions are once again to emulate the success of WS's team in the nineties. ie a step down from the standard set by WS's successor. Unfortunately given the present flow of income into Rangers - whic is no different from what it was under Souness and Smith - is no longer capable of competing in a market place inflated by Rupert Murdoch's money: we simply cannot now buy some of the best English players that we could in the past eg Terry Butcher. So perhaps our ambitions are limited to the domestic game.

[bearwhocares 0]

I agree with the majority of the posts and I too have experienced the lows as well as the highs. I have supported the Rangers for 50 years and believe me we have been in worse situations than this. The difference nowadays is the expectation level is so much higher with Europe the benchmark. The standard of football is less important as getting the result.Supporters tend to excuse bad performances as long as we get the win. Ok in the short term but makes for bad planning for the future.

If the club is to challenge for future honours the following has to happen :

1. Murray has to invest in better players and that means not penny piching.

2. Give the young players a chance or revisit our youth policy.

3. Promote our club abroad and invest in our foreign support - SA was a bad move.

4. Understand that a guaranteed 50,000 every week dosen't mean success.

5. Get priorities right. Win SPL and build squad for CL.

6. WS upstairs and get young proven Bluenose manager with an attacking ethic ( listen to the crowd roar then)

WE ARE RFC AND THERE WILL BE NO SURRENDER !

JMO.

[Guest orangpendek]

what's all this celtic are miles better than us? look at their defence! does anyone believe that gary caldwell is an immovable rock, a john terry? like hell! their full backs, unbeatable are they? boz! some old fat guys in the middle and an oriental who'll most likely be off to somewhere warmer after his cl showings this year. and up front, a disinterested pole, a dutch version of tore injured flo and kenny miller?!?! yes we're behind, but only coz we're crap. 2 good players will make a huge difference. posters have mentioned ian redford and ian ferguson. well, remember cammy fraser. abysmal before souness came, outstanding after it coz abround him were better players. the likes of adam or hutton would be vastly improved by playing a better team so we don't have to do all that much to catch that mob. so far smith has taken a rubbish team that was losing and made them a rubbish team that is winning. next step, a better team that is winning. after that, a good team that is winning.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I remember during our NIAR hearing a serious discussion on Radio Scotland - it was round about 6 or 7 in a row - about whether anybody other than Rangers would ever win the league in Scotland.

We'll be back.

[minstral 5,375]

I remember during our NIAR hearing a serious discussion on Radio Scotland - it was round about 6 or 7 in a row - about whether anybody other than Rangers would ever win the league in Scotland.

We'll be back.

yes we will be back but i dont think 9 in a row will ever be done again and i would be happy just to win the title again.

[simplythechamps08 2]

I wish this wasn't true, but I have to agree.

I don't think any team in ANY major European league will ever win any more than maybe 6 titles in a row ever again, at least not for the next 25 years.

I think lyon stand a good chance given their financial situation compared to the rest of their league, they are however an exception - just hope we can prevent any more than 3 in a row for celtic

[A Horse With No Name 27]

I think these days we have to continually UNDERPLAY our chances - and as long as we do that along with tapping into that British 'Fighting Spirit' we're so proud of, this period in our history will pass! (header)

The debt will go.

Murray will F off (with his pockets bulging of course).

Then things will start looking brighter!!!

There's only one concern in my mind - who'll take over from Mr Smoke and Mirrors?

If we get RST and Rangers fans involvement, things will start improving but that improvement will only be realised with an increase in the Capacity of Ibrox and a change in attitude towards the Rangers Fans!!!! We're Rangers fans not Customers :pipeguy:

[cooper1989 0]

Excellent thread btw.

Change is the only constant in life -- and times have certainly changed since NIAR. Even though our expectations at the beginning of this year were sky high -- but we soon fell down back to earth as we were found out, and how quickly!

Given that the SPL will never, ever receive 'decent' TV money, by definition, the OF will struggle in Europe. Although, in Football nothing is certain. So... our expectations need to be (imho)

o - Win the SPL -- and we know we can since are Celtic that much better at the moment? Look at the points we have simply given away! There's not that much difference. But they are better right now.

o - A good run in the CL every year -- and that means last 16 maybe quarter finals which might not be possible.

I'm afraid my fellow bears/bearettes, that while the SPL title is always great, the chance of real glory (Europe) might never be.

But... who knows what the future holds? Not I -- that's the only thing I DO know for certain.

[Stuart_RFC 41]

I was having a good day till i read that post Danny...youv ruined it. And you know whats worse? your completely correct

[bauba30 1]

Personally, I can see a 5 year period where we play second fiddle to Celtic. And that is ok - I am prepared to accept that as long as there is a long term plan within the club and at the end of that 5 years we have a young, exciting team and the club is absolutely solid financially with the debt more or less paid off

[delparlane 5,756]

Excellent thread. I think that those who have backed the Gers for a long time and have known the agonies of Celitc's 9IR and the 80s know that the pendulum does swing the other way eventually. This is a low period for us - it happens in life, and times like this test your character. I think we most certainly will be back, perhaps sooner than most folks think. Gow's coming in, looks like Brown will, Thomson will be fit, Fleck is a great prospect, so shore up the Defence and this will be an exciting team to watch again.

I have a mug on the desk right next to me with the Gers crest and the words "Keep Believing - League Champions 2004-2005" on it. We just have to take those words to heart from the management through the players to the punters. Positive attitude, keep the faith, and anything's possible. No Surrender.