Footbal Chants and Sectarianism

[mmrfc1873 48]

You're right millar brand, it's time we moved on from these sectarian songs/chants and try to erase sectarianism from Scottish football.

It's a thing of the past and the worst thing about it is the fact half the people singing TBB etc aren't actually religious, so should have no problems with catholics at all.

That imo is just bigotry of the highest order, lets not be like cltic.

This

[.Williamson. 82,234]

You're right millar brand, it's time we moved on from these sectarian songs/chants and try to erase sectarianism from Scottish football.

It's a thing of the past and the worst thing about it is the fact half the people singing TBB etc aren't actually religious, so should have no problems with catholics at all.

That imo is just bigotry of the highest order, lets not be like cltic.

I've never thought that the Billy Boys had anything to do with Catholics, and therefore don't see why it's "bigotry of the highest order".

Don't be silly, it is clearly sung with the thought of catholics in peoples heads.

"We're up to our knees in f*nian blood..."

When that word is said by people who do you think they have in mind?

[damien1 29]

You're right millar brand, it's time we moved on from these sectarian songs/chants and try to erase sectarianism from Scottish football.

It's a thing of the past and the worst thing about it is the fact half the people singing TBB etc aren't actually religious, so should have no problems with catholics at all.

That imo is just bigotry of the highest order, lets not be like cltic.

Explain to me the part in TBB that is religious or even anti-catholic?

[mmrfc1873 48]

sonWilliam "Will i have my suspicion on you now as for a poster who can't spell the simple word of FOOTBALL and UEFA must come under suspicion."

What a clever and insightful comment. Obviously my typing and spelling skills have let me down. I can see I'm no match for you in the debating stakes.

Just to quell your "suspicion" I saw my first Rangers game in 1958 and have followed the Club through thick and thin ever since. However why should I bother to justify myself to you ? You don't like my views, fine, let's beg to differ, but don't resort to the pathetic " he doesn't think the same as me so he can't be a true Rangers man line".

And now wait for the "Your a taig" reply from him.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

As I understand it the use of the word F*nian was what EUFA jumped on. For those who feign offence they claim that this word is associated with Roman Catholicism, although it has nothing to do with religion but refers to an Irish Republican political movement.

There are plenty of people on here who use the word 'F*nian' to mean a Catholic.

Really, the sooner people drop religion the better.

Why should we drop religion, i am a proud Protestant Rangers fan just like generations were before me. The people with the problem are the handwringers who are happy to appease the dark side, who are happy to tell the world that they are the Catholic club.

Seriously??

Anyway, on the original post, UEFA cant really do anything about TBB unless it's sung in Europe, and even then they probably wont do anything about it

Personally I'd rather we dropped this stuff along with the FTP/paramilitary stuff as it isn't really relevant to Rangers FC anymore. Move forward as a support as a tolerant fanbase whilst never forgetting our roots

[sonOwilliam 0]

There is a difference between a catholic and a taig IMO. I know a few people, and I do mean a few, who are catholics and have been brought up catholics by their parents but they don't go to chapel, don't play Gaelic, they even get into arguments with people who believe there is no border seperating Northern Ireland from ROI and that we should be one country, don't support ROI and in general have no religion or cultural beliefs. They are the people I can cope with but the taigs are the one who plead for a united Ireland, sing about the IRA, show an obvious hatred towards our club and religion, interrupt minute silences for war heroes, refuse to wear poppies on rememberance day etc.

So sing our songs loud and proud because it is those bastards from the other side that hate us with a passion and try to degrade us with their IRA songs and burning hatred. How can we sit in silence while they interrupt minute silences, wave Argentinian flags when war hero Simon Weston is present, sing songs about the IRA...

The plastic paddy's over here seem to think Ireland is obsessed with Cetic, IRA, United Ireland and hating anything to do with Britain, when in fact in Ireland you'll find the majority of them don't care about any of that shite at all. The chunts over here give the real Irish such a bad name.

My link

My link

Are you trying to tell a person from Northern Ireland what a a taig is like from Ireland go read a book you don't have clue kid.

[Gaffbear 4,096]

You're right millar brand, it's time we moved on from these sectarian songs/chants and try to erase sectarianism from Scottish football.

It's a thing of the past and the worst thing about it is the fact half the people singing TBB etc aren't actually religious, so should have no problems with catholics at all.

That imo is just bigotry of the highest order, lets not be like cltic.

I've never thought that the Billy Boys had anything to do with Catholics, and therefore don't see why it's "bigotry of the highest order".

Don't be silly, it is clearly sung with the thought of catholics in peoples heads.

"We're up to our knees in f*nian blood..."

When that word is said by people who do you think they have in mind?

so your a mind reader now???

[.Williamson. 82,234]

You're right millar brand, it's time we moved on from these sectarian songs/chants and try to erase sectarianism from Scottish football.

It's a thing of the past and the worst thing about it is the fact half the people singing TBB etc aren't actually religious, so should have no problems with catholics at all.

That imo is just bigotry of the highest order, lets not be like cltic.

Explain to me the part in TBB that is religious or even anti-catholic?

You're being daft if you think thats not what most people have in mind when singing TBB.

I know that when people sing it over here they are only thinking of one thing and it wouldn't be considered friendly to catholics.

[damien1 29]

As I understand it the use of the word F*nian was what EUFA jumped on. For those who feign offence they claim that this word is associated with Roman Catholicism, although it has nothing to do with religion but refers to an Irish Republican political movement.

There are plenty of people on here who use the word 'F*nian' to mean a Catholic.

Really, the sooner people drop religion the better.

Why should we drop religion, i am a proud Protestant Rangers fan just like generations were before me. The people with the problem are the handwringers who are happy to appease the dark side, who are happy to tell the world that they are the Catholic club.

Seriously??

Anyway, on the original post, UEFA cant really do anything about TBB unless it's sung in Europe, and even then they probably wont do anything about it

Personally I'd rather we dropped this stuff along with the FTP/paramilitary stuff as it isn't really relevant to Rangers FC anymore. Move forward as a support as a tolerant fanbase whilst never forgetting our roots

So by this you mean putting our roots in a wee box in the corner for no-one to see? Hidden away like a family curse?

[mmrfc1873 48]

There is a difference between a catholic and a taig IMO. I know a few people, and I do mean a few, who are catholics and have been brought up catholics by their parents but they don't go to chapel, don't play Gaelic, they even get into arguments with people who believe there is no border seperating Northern Ireland from ROI and that we should be one country, don't support ROI and in general have no religion or cultural beliefs. They are the people I can cope with but the taigs are the one who plead for a united Ireland, sing about the IRA, show an obvious hatred towards our club and religion, interrupt minute silences for war heroes, refuse to wear poppies on rememberance day etc.

So sing our songs loud and proud because it is those bastards from the other side that hate us with a passion and try to degrade us with their IRA songs and burning hatred. How can we sit in silence while they interrupt minute silences, wave Argentinian flags when war hero Simon Weston is present, sing songs about the IRA...

The plastic paddy's over here seem to think Ireland is obsessed with Cetic, IRA, United Ireland and hating anything to do with Britain, when in fact in Ireland you'll find the majority of them don't care about any of that shite at all. The chunts over here give the real Irish such a bad name.

My link

My link

Are you trying to tell a person from Northern Ireland what a a taig is like from Ireland go read a book you don't have clue kid.

I'm not trying to tell a man from Northern Ireland anything at all. where did you get that from ?.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

As I understand it the use of the word F*nian was what EUFA jumped on. For those who feign offence they claim that this word is associated with Roman Catholicism, although it has nothing to do with religion but refers to an Irish Republican political movement.

There are plenty of people on here who use the word 'F*nian' to mean a Catholic.

Really, the sooner people drop religion the better.

Why should we drop religion, i am a proud Protestant Rangers fan just like generations were before me. The people with the problem are the handwringers who are happy to appease the dark side, who are happy to tell the world that they are the Catholic club.

Seriously??

Anyway, on the original post, UEFA cant really do anything about TBB unless it's sung in Europe, and even then they probably wont do anything about it

Personally I'd rather we dropped this stuff along with the FTP/paramilitary stuff as it isn't really relevant to Rangers FC anymore. Move forward as a support as a tolerant fanbase whilst never forgetting our roots

So by this you mean putting our roots in a wee box in the corner for no-one to see? Hidden away like a family curse?

No, that's not what I mean at all

We should be proud of our roots, they have made us what we are

But we have to accept that the World has moved on

[damien1 29]

You're right millar brand, it's time we moved on from these sectarian songs/chants and try to erase sectarianism from Scottish football.

It's a thing of the past and the worst thing about it is the fact half the people singing TBB etc aren't actually religious, so should have no problems with catholics at all.

That imo is just bigotry of the highest order, lets not be like cltic.

Explain to me the part in TBB that is religious or even anti-catholic?

You're being daft if you think thats not what most people have in mind when singing TBB.

I know that when people sing it over here they are only thinking of one thing and it wouldn't be considered friendly to catholics.

You're being daft by assuming you know what people have in their minds when singing it.

I'll make an assumption here that many of those fans who sing it have catholic wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, husbands, friends, work mates and other colleagues. So what your saying is we have a fanbase which consists of 'hypocrites of the highest order' as well as being 'bigots'.

[Bluedell 14]

Don't be silly, it is clearly sung with the thought of catholics in peoples heads.

"We're up to our knees in f*nian blood..."

When that word is said by people who do you think they have in mind?

I don't think that I could claim to know what everybody thinks when they sing the song.

However I have always assumd it was the more traditional definition of F*nian, meaning an Irish republican who was willing to take up arms. Wolfe Tone, for example, was a Protestant.

Billy Fullerton was, as I understand it, very anti-Irish republicanism and that's always the way that I had understood the song.

[.Williamson. 82,234]

You're right millar brand, it's time we moved on from these sectarian songs/chants and try to erase sectarianism from Scottish football.

It's a thing of the past and the worst thing about it is the fact half the people singing TBB etc aren't actually religious, so should have no problems with catholics at all.

That imo is just bigotry of the highest order, lets not be like cltic.

Explain to me the part in TBB that is religious or even anti-catholic?

You're being daft if you think thats not what most people have in mind when singing TBB.

I know that when people sing it over here they are only thinking of one thing and it wouldn't be considered friendly to catholics.

You're being daft by assuming you know what people have in their minds when singing it.

I'll make an assumption here that many of those fans who sing it have catholic wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, husbands, friends, work mates and other colleagues. So what your saying is we have a fanbase which consists of 'hypocrites of the highest order' as well as being 'bigots'.

One of my mates has a catholic girlfriend and he supports Rangers, he won't sing tbb at all anymore.

I guarantee you that if he sang that with her around there would be a few choice words that followed.

[millar brand 0]

I was suggesting we make legal representation to UEFA as, I believe, they merely latched on to an issue that others, such as McNee and Speirs, had stirred up with them. I think we need the Club to be more pro-active with UEFA as I fear problems could still come on this issue next season. I accept there is a distinction in Scotland although as I have tried to state in my post I believe there is scope domestically for those who have an agenda against us and was suggesting we try to be a bit clever for once and act to avoid that in the future. I also think the potential for Reid and others like him to mischief make against us is not to be ignored. Should we just sit back and hope there will be nothing sung at any of our UEFA games next season that might land us in trouble or that no Scottish politician will try to make an issue of us for something sung at a domestic game ? If so fine. I would prefer however to see us for once take the initiative on this issue.

[Gaffbear 4,096]

As I understand it the use of the word F*nian was what EUFA jumped on. For those who feign offence they claim that this word is associated with Roman Catholicism, although it has nothing to do with religion but refers to an Irish Republican political movement.

There are plenty of people on here who use the word 'F*nian' to mean a Catholic.

Really, the sooner people drop religion the better.

Why should we drop religion, i am a proud Protestant Rangers fan just like generations were before me. The people with the problem are the handwringers who are happy to appease the dark side, who are happy to tell the world that they are the Catholic club.

Seriously??

Anyway, on the original post, UEFA cant really do anything about TBB unless it's sung in Europe, and even then they probably wont do anything about it

Personally I'd rather we dropped this stuff along with the FTP/paramilitary stuff as it isn't really relevant to Rangers FC anymore. Move forward as a support as a tolerant fanbase whilst never forgetting our roots

So by this you mean putting our roots in a wee box in the corner for no-one to see? Hidden away like a family curse?

No, that's not what I mean at all

We should be proud of our roots, they have made us what we are

But we have to accept that the World has moved on

Oh has it now..........where has it moved on?

The RIRA and CIRA are still active.....Israel and the Palestinians are still bombing each other....there are Sectarian Wars going on in Iraq and Pakistan as well as terror wars world wide....are we in a different world than 30 years ago...

It's the same old world with only different front lines

[mmrfc1873 48]

There is a difference between a catholic and a taig IMO. I know a few people, and I do mean a few, who are catholics and have been brought up catholics by their parents but they don't go to chapel, don't play Gaelic, they even get into arguments with people who believe there is no border seperating Northern Ireland from ROI and that we should be one country, don't support ROI and in general have no religion or cultural beliefs. They are the people I can cope with but the taigs are the one who plead for a united Ireland, sing about the IRA, show an obvious hatred towards our club and religion, interrupt minute silences for war heroes, refuse to wear poppies on rememberance day etc.

So sing our songs loud and proud because it is those bastards from the other side that hate us with a passion and try to degrade us with their IRA songs and burning hatred. How can we sit in silence while they interrupt minute silences, wave Argentinian flags when war hero Simon Weston is present, sing songs about the IRA...

The plastic paddy's over here seem to think Ireland is obsessed with Cetic, IRA, United Ireland and hating anything to do with Britain, when in fact in Ireland you'll find the majority of them don't care about any of that shite at all. The chunts over here give the real Irish such a bad name.

My link

My link

Are you trying to tell a person from Northern Ireland what a a taig is like from Ireland go read a book you don't have clue kid.

Read my post before you start your senseless bullshit

[.Williamson. 82,234]

Don't be silly, it is clearly sung with the thought of catholics in peoples heads.

"We're up to our knees in f*nian blood..."

When that word is said by people who do you think they have in mind?

I don't think that I could claim to know what everybody thinks when they sing the song.

However I have always assumd it was the more traditional definition of F*nian, meaning an Irish republican who was willing to take up arms. Wolfe Tone, for example, was a Protestant.

Billy Fullerton was, as I understand it, very anti-Irish republicanism and that's always the way that I had understood the song.

So people only sing it because all cltic fans are willing to do this?

[damien1 29]

As I understand it the use of the word F*nian was what EUFA jumped on. For those who feign offence they claim that this word is associated with Roman Catholicism, although it has nothing to do with religion but refers to an Irish Republican political movement.

There are plenty of people on here who use the word 'F*nian' to mean a Catholic.

Really, the sooner people drop religion the better.

Why should we drop religion, i am a proud Protestant Rangers fan just like generations were before me. The people with the problem are the handwringers who are happy to appease the dark side, who are happy to tell the world that they are the Catholic club.

Seriously??

Anyway, on the original post, UEFA cant really do anything about TBB unless it's sung in Europe, and even then they probably wont do anything about it

Personally I'd rather we dropped this stuff along with the FTP/paramilitary stuff as it isn't really relevant to Rangers FC anymore. Move forward as a support as a tolerant fanbase whilst never forgetting our roots

So by this you mean putting our roots in a wee box in the corner for no-one to see? Hidden away like a family curse?

No, that's not what I mean at all

We should be proud of our roots, they have made us what we are

But we have to accept that the World has moved on

Yes the World has moved on and like so many parts of the World that has moved on the past can and does still get celebrated. Why should we be any different? Why should we be singled out and discriminated against? Some folk argue the point that Celtic get away with it, well IMO I don't care what they sing, if it's their culture fair enough, let them get on with it, I don't get offended or upset about it, but I do however should have the opportunity of expressing my culture and upbringing.

Muslim fanatics are allowed to protest and jeer our soldiers when they come back from overseas expressing hatred and venom whilst they do so, yet our fans are not allowed the same freedom of speech. Which really is what this agrument is all about.

[sonOwilliam 0]

Don't be silly, it is clearly sung with the thought of catholics in peoples heads.

"We're up to our knees in f*nian blood..."

When that word is said by people who do you think they have in mind?

I don't think that I could claim to know what everybody thinks when they sing the song.

However I have always assumd it was the more traditional definition of F*nian, meaning an Irish republican who was willing to take up arms. Wolfe Tone, for example, was a Protestant.

Billy Fullerton was, as I understand it, very anti-Irish republicanism and that's always the way that I had understood the song.

You are correct the definition of the word F*nian means Irish Republican or Irish Warrior not a catholic or anything like that.

It just happens most F*nians are catholics though.

[sonOwilliam 0]

Oh has it now..........where has it moved on?

The RIRA and CIRA are still active.....Israel and the Palestinians are still bombing each other....there are Sectarian Wars going on in Iraq and Pakistan as well as terror wars world wide....are we in a different world than 30 years ago...

It's the same old world with only different front lines

Just because it's not on T.V. INTERNET or the news Gaff its moved on

[damien1 29]

Don't be silly, it is clearly sung with the thought of catholics in peoples heads.

"We're up to our knees in f*nian blood..."

When that word is said by people who do you think they have in mind?

I don't think that I could claim to know what everybody thinks when they sing the song.

However I have always assumd it was the more traditional definition of F*nian, meaning an Irish republican who was willing to take up arms. Wolfe Tone, for example, was a Protestant.

Billy Fullerton was, as I understand it, very anti-Irish republicanism and that's always the way that I had understood the song.

You are correct the definition of the word F*nian means Irish Republican or Irish Warrior not a catholic or anything like that.

It just happens most F*nians are catholics though.

And all catholics are Christians

Subset of subset of subset

So that argument is pointless

[opportunityknox 1]

You're right millar brand, it's time we moved on from these sectarian songs/chants and try to erase sectarianism from Scottish football.

It's a thing of the past and the worst thing about it is the fact half the people singing TBB etc aren't actually religious, so should have no problems with catholics at all.

That imo is just bigotry of the highest order, lets not be like cltic.

I've never thought that the Billy Boys had anything to do with Catholics, and therefore don't see why it's "bigotry of the highest order".

Don't be silly, it is clearly sung with the thought of catholics in peoples heads.

"We're up to our knees in f*nian blood..."

When that word is said by people who do you think they have in mind?

Are you a mindreader, or Graham Spiers?

Interestingly, did you know that the dictionary definition of "F*nian" was only recently amended to reflect a deluge of communication "informing" Oxford that the term was a derogatory term used by Protestants to describe Catholics.

This additional definition only started appearing in Oxford and Chambers dictionaries in the last decade.

Neither the Collins or Merriam Webster dictionaries carry this new additional definition.

That's not to say they are correct and the Oxford isn't. This is simply offered as evidence that there is no universal definition of the word, other than references to the Irish Republican Brotherhood.

Personally, I prefer to call a spade a spade, and dislike the use of slang, so I would be more inclined not to use the term, and simply refer to an Irish Republican as precisely that.

Most of my Rangers supporting friends and aquaintances understand the term in relation to Republicanism and support for Irish Republican terror groups.

[sonOwilliam 0]

Don't be silly, it is clearly sung with the thought of catholics in peoples heads.

"We're up to our knees in f*nian blood..."

When that word is said by people who do you think they have in mind?

I don't think that I could claim to know what everybody thinks when they sing the song.

However I have always assumd it was the more traditional definition of F*nian, meaning an Irish republican who was willing to take up arms. Wolfe Tone, for example, was a Protestant.

Billy Fullerton was, as I understand it, very anti-Irish republicanism and that's always the way that I had understood the song.

You are correct the definition of the word F*nian means Irish Republican or Irish Warrior not a catholic or anything like that.

It just happens most F*nians are catholics though.

And all catholics are Christians

Subset of subset of subset

So that argument is pointless

good point.

[Bluedell 14]

Don't be silly, it is clearly sung with the thought of catholics in peoples heads.

"We're up to our knees in f*nian blood..."

When that word is said by people who do you think they have in mind?

I don't think that I could claim to know what everybody thinks when they sing the song.

However I have always assumd it was the more traditional definition of F*nian, meaning an Irish republican who was willing to take up arms. Wolfe Tone, for example, was a Protestant.

Billy Fullerton was, as I understand it, very anti-Irish republicanism and that's always the way that I had understood the song.

You are correct the definition of the word F*nian means Irish Republican or Irish Warrior not a catholic or anything like that.

It just happens most F*nians are catholics though.

But most Catholics are not F*nians.

It's like criticising the SNP. Most of their support are Scots but by criticising the Nats, you are not criticising the whole of the Scottish nation.