The Founders Trail and Ibrox Stadium Tour 2010. Autumn Dates.

[theweebluenose 4,335]

Whats the biggest tragedy of this whole debate is why the people behind Founders Trail and the William McBeath Project can't unite under one banner all because of one certain person.

[Carsons Army 4,146]

If you read my post I clearly state that I have no problem with anyone making a profit, If he puts the time and the work in, then he is entitled to some return.

What I do have issues with is the patronising pish about putting the Founders and Rangers first, when he is clearly not. because he is using personal reasons and issues he has for not posting it on Vanguardbears, Is this putting Founders and Rangers first ?

As for The squabbling and bitching between sites, Ask Le Bluebear / Moonlighter why you can't even type the word Vanguardbears on FF.

How petty is that ?

I have been banned from Follow Follow, I was banned because I mentioned Vanguardbears.

I recieved a message when I logged on, stating Banned ! when will ban be lifted: NEVER. Reason: none

I can freely post links to FF on Vanguardbears, If you try the same on FF, you will recieve a lifetime ban.

So how ironic is it that Moonlighter is talking about bitching and squabbling

And what does any of this have to do with RM?

Why bring the issues on here?

how very pedantic, You claim to be naive about this situation and you ask why people are asking questions of the OP.

I am only highlighting the hypocracy of some of moonlighters statements.

If you don't want the answers, then why ask the questions ?

[kplfishtank 4,679]

If you read my post I clearly state that I have no problem with anyone making a profit, If he puts the time and the work in, then he is entitled to some return.

What I do have issues with is the patronising pish about putting the Founders and Rangers first, when he is clearly not. because he is using personal reasons and issues he has for not posting it on Vanguardbears, Is this putting Founders and Rangers first ?

As for The squabbling and bitching between sites, Ask Le Bluebear / Moonlighter why you can't even type the word Vanguardbears on FF.

How petty is that ?

I have been banned from Follow Follow, I was banned because I mentioned Vanguardbears.

I recieved a message when I logged on, stating Banned ! when will ban be lifted: NEVER. Reason: none

I can freely post links to FF on Vanguardbears, If you try the same on FF, you will recieve a lifetime ban.

So how ironic is it that Moonlighter is talking about bitching and squabbling

And what does any of this have to do with RM?

Why bring the issues on here?

i would say that like a lot on here the guys from VB will be banned from FF and the admin/mods from FF wont go on VB so RM is being used as an intermediate alternative where we can all say what we like (within reason)and feel the love eminating thru the posts

[caseyjones 3,009]

Whats the biggest tragedy of this whole debate is why the people behind Founders Trail and the William McBeath Project can't unite under one banner all because of one certain person.

It's not because of that one person, Coisty355 states that he has nothing to do with the Founder's Trail. It must therefore, be down to one or more of the three organisers.

[theweebluenose 4,335]

Whats the biggest tragedy of this whole debate is why the people behind Founders Trail and the William McBeath Project can't unite under one banner all because of one certain person.

It's not because of that one person, Coisty355 states that he has nothing to do with the Founder's Trail. It must therefore, be down to one or more of the three organisers.

Is Coisty355 Mark Dingwall?

[MisterC 12,488]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

Wasn't a dig at you mate or indeed anyone I just hate something which is going to inform and educate fans being made into a political issue, why cant something like this happen without there being politics involved? Its frustrating for those with no vested interest, for want of a better phrase, to have to listen and read all this. Can I make a suggestion to give some closure to this? Well I'm going to anyway. If Moonlighter was to fully answer the questions posed by those from VB about Dingwall being involved and that maybe being a reason for the founders trailed not being advertised on VB, would the VB guys promise stop going on about it? Not trying to be disrespectful to anyone on any side but I dont think this dispute does anyone any favours.

[thebooler 4,509]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

Wasn't a dig at you mate or indeed anyone I just hate something which is going to inform and educate fans being made into a political issue, why cant something like this happen without there being politics involved? Its frustrating for those with no vested interest, for want of a better phrase, to have to listen and read all this. Can I make a suggestion to give some closure to this? Well I'm going to anyway. If Moonlighter was to fully answer the questions posed by those from VB about Dingwall being involved and that maybe being a reason for the founders trailed not being advertised on VB, would the VB guys promise stop going on about it? Not trying to be disrespectful to anyone on any side but I dont think this dispute does anyone any favours.

No worries mate.

[Coisty355 1]

Whats the biggest tragedy of this whole debate is why the people behind Founders Trail and the William McBeath Project can't unite under one banner all because of one certain person.

It's not because of that one person, Coisty355 states that he has nothing to do with the Founder's Trail. It must therefore, be down to one or more of the three organisers.

Is Coisty355 Mark Dingwall?

Nope.

[caseyjones 3,009]

Whats the biggest tragedy of this whole debate is why the people behind Founders Trail and the William McBeath Project can't unite under one banner all because of one certain person.

It's not because of that one person, Coisty355 states that he has nothing to do with the Founder's Trail. It must therefore, be down to one or more of the three organisers.

Is Coisty355 Mark Dingwall?

Who knows?

[nemisis 358]

Indeed who knows? Has moonlighter been banned by MD from advertising his follow followw founders trail on VB? Who knows?

[Iserdo 1]

Ah.

So it IS all about the inter-webstie squabble.

Thought as much.

Moving on.

We've sold out the Founders Trail for July 18th but may be announcing an extra date in July this week.

I'll post details when i have more information.

Thanks for all the interest shown.

No, it's about people like you who deny there's any money being made, when you actually do make cash from it. Now I'll ask you again... Did you make any cash from the Ralston book when selling it outside Ibrox or not?

If he never, he's an idiot.

Do you make money from bus ticket sales?

If he doesn't, again, he's an idiot.

Do you make cash from T shirt sales?

Once again, if he doesn't, he's an idiot.

Did you permit the selling of memorabilia on Ebay?

All sorts of Rangers memorabilia is available on Ebay, and hundreds of other websites worldwide.

All very straight forward questions and I'm sure you'll have no problem answering. Unlike the request to post your tours on Vanguardbears, which for some reason you ignored or missed by accident.

Individuals have the right to decide where and when to promote their goods.

*Reminder to self*

1. Never buy another season ticket.

2. Never buy another programme.

3. Never buy another T Shirt.

4. Never buy another Pie & Bovril.

5. Never go buy RSC bus to away games.

6. Never buy another Fanzine.

7. Never buy another scarf.

8. Never buy another away European Trip from Thomas Cook.

All of the above means profit for someone

Yes it does,it means profit to ower club.

But there is one form of monies that don't reach our club,can you guess?

I can!

[Iserdo 1]

And censorship would be just as damaging as asking questions.

Here's a hypothetical question then....

Is there anything stopping the guys from the Founders Trail meeting up with the guys who got the McBeath project up and running. Having a beer or two and discussing any issues that are being spoken about on here?

I know i wouldn't refuse a beer with a fellow bear regardless of what has happened in the past. I am sure Willhelm would be the same although i cannot speak for him personally.

So is there anything stopping us?

But the questions you refer to have been asked repeatedly every time a thread about the Trail is posted. And these questions have been answered repeatedly yet some people don't seem satisfied with the answers.

That still doesn't answer my question

I'll answer it, in a word .

No.

I won't be taking the Founders Project into an arena that involves bitching between two websites.

I'm not taking the four kids who fought to establish our Club there, it's a simple as that.

I've tried my best to keep the project out of it, but as soon as it appears on here i'm accused of being a crook who's out to make a profit out of Rangers supporters.

This crook is then asked why i don't advertise on their site ?

Better than that i've now to sit and have a pint.

No, i'll continue to put the Founders first and watch from the side-lines while individulas rap themselves up in their own squabbles.

That has to be the most patronising post I have ever seen in my life,

If you want to "put the founders first" as you continually trot out, then post it on all Rangers sites, Not the ones Mark Dingwall allows to to post it on.

I don't really care if you make a profit, If you've put the leg work in then your entitled to it.

But don't spout the patronising stuff about "put the founders first" and "Putting Rangers first" when you are intentionally snubbing a section of the Rangers support who chose to use Vanguardbears.

This division and bitching between two websites, that you speak of, eminates from One person.

but I'm guessing he has the right to advertise his goods wherever he decides to do so.

...but not on VGB's site cos he has an agenda(money),that seems like the consensus from the DM camp :)not that i would know.i'm just reading between the lines.

[thebooler 4,509]

Ah.

So it IS all about the inter-webstie squabble.

Thought as much.

Moving on.

We've sold out the Founders Trail for July 18th but may be announcing an extra date in July this week.

I'll post details when i have more information.

Thanks for all the interest shown.

No, it's about people like you who deny there's any money being made, when you actually do make cash from it. Now I'll ask you again... Did you make any cash from the Ralston book when selling it outside Ibrox or not?

If he never, he's an idiot.

Do you make money from bus ticket sales?

If he doesn't, again, he's an idiot.

Do you make cash from T shirt sales?

Once again, if he doesn't, he's an idiot.

Did you permit the selling of memorabilia on Ebay?

All sorts of Rangers memorabilia is available on Ebay, and hundreds of other websites worldwide.

All very straight forward questions and I'm sure you'll have no problem answering. Unlike the request to post your tours on Vanguardbears, which for some reason you ignored or missed by accident.

Individuals have the right to decide where and when to promote their goods.

*Reminder to self*

1. Never buy another season ticket.

2. Never buy another programme.

3. Never buy another T Shirt.

4. Never buy another Pie & Bovril.

5. Never go buy RSC bus to away games.

6. Never buy another Fanzine.

7. Never buy another scarf.

8. Never buy another away European Trip from Thomas Cook.

All of the above means profit for someone

Yes it does,it means profit to ower club.

But there is one form of monies that don't reach our club,can you guess?

I can!

How many of the 8 items I've listed above necessarily mean profits to our club?

[TheMoonlighter 499]

Why don't some of you book a seat on the Founders Trail and come along personally and meet the people behind the project ?

You can watch them first hand working hard to promote and celebrate the good name of our Founders.

The alternative is sitting on here hour after hour thrashing a keyboard till your fingers go blue sending out negative views that just can't be making you feel good.

Just a thought.

The questions and accusations posed on this thread have been answered on this forum on numerous occasions.

The problem is, the answers aren't what people want to hear.

I'll say it one more time as i'm far too busy for this nonsense, the Founders Project will NOT be bogged down in an inter-website squabble that i have little knowledge of and have played no part in.

Get over it.

Rangers First.

[caseyjones 3,009]

Why don't some of you book a seat on the Founders Trail and come along personally and meet the people behind the project ?

You can watch them first hand working hard to promote and celebrate the good name of our Founders.

The alternative is sitting on here hour after hour thrashing a keyboard till your fingers go blue sending out negative views that just can't be making you feel good.

Just a thought.

The questions and accusations posed on this thread have been answered on this forum on numerous occasions.

The problem is, the answers aren't what people want to hear.

I'll say it one more time as i'm far too busy for this nonsense, the Founders Project will NOT be bogged down in an inter-website squabble that i have little knowledge of and have played no part in.

Get over it.

Rangers First.

Seeing as most of the problems seem to be with VB, why don't you post it on their website to show that you want nothing to do with the feud? There are already enough factions pulling in different directions within the support.

Just a thought.

[Adoniram 1,919]

Whats the biggest tragedy of this whole debate is why the people behind Founders Trail and the William McBeath Project can't unite under one banner all because of one certain person.

I did try to offer an olive branch yesterday but Mr Hypocrisy turned it down.

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

Jesus wept! You want Censorship under YOUR terms?

Open debate is the cornerstone of the RM on-line democracy.

[thebooler 4,509]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

Jesus wept! You want Censorship under YOUR terms?

Open debate is the cornerstone of the RM on-line democracy.

Yes, it is.

But this is the only forum of which I'm a member, and every time somebody mentions the Founders Trail, we see the same people going over the same issues time and time again.

I'm all for open debate, but this debate always seems to be about other forums, and problems people have with said forums.

Like many others on here, I just get dissappointed when I see division like this among our support.

I've never asked for censorship under my terms either - I'm merely a simple member of the forum and was only suggesting that maybe someone could find a way around this.

I certainly don't want to get to the stage where I just don't open any threads about the Founders Trail, knowing I'm likely to be dissappointed with its content.

As I've said before, I don't know any of the guys who are involved in this debacle, and I don't know anything about the problems, or who is at fault - if anybody.

I just feel it's such a shame that every time these guys try to promote the Founders Trail, it ends up in a cat fight.

TBH If it was me, I'd sooner not bother.

[MisterC 12,488]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

Jesus wept! You want Censorship under YOUR terms?

Open debate is the cornerstone of the RM on-line democracy.

Yes, it is.

But this is the only forum of which I'm a member, and every time somebody mentions the Founders Trail, we see the same people going over the same issues time and time again.

I'm all for open debate, but this debate always seems to be about other forums, and problems people have with said forums.

Like many others on here, I just get dissappointed when I see division like this among our support.

I've never asked for censorship under my terms either - I'm merely a simple member of the forum and was only suggesting that maybe someone could find a way around this.

I certainly don't want to get to the stage where I just don't open any threads about the Founders Trail, knowing I'm likely to be dissappointed with its content.

As I've said before, I don't know any of the guys who are involved in this debacle, and I don't know anything about the problems, or who is at fault - if anybody.

I just feel it's such a shame that every time these guys try to promote the Founders Trail, it ends up in a cat fight.

TBH If it was me, I'd sooner not bother.

Same here Booler. Why cant we all just get along?

[Adoniram 1,919]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

Jesus wept! You want Censorship under YOUR terms?

Open debate is the cornerstone of the RM on-line democracy.

Yes, it is.

But this is the only forum of which I'm a member, and every time somebody mentions the Founders Trail, we see the same people going over the same issues time and time again.

I'm all for open debate, but this debate always seems to be about other forums, and problems people have with said forums.

Like many others on here, I just get dissappointed when I see division like this among our support.

I've never asked for censorship under my terms either - I'm merely a simple member of the forum and was only suggesting that maybe someone could find a way around this.

I certainly don't want to get to the stage where I just don't open any threads about the Founders Trail, knowing I'm likely to be dissappointed with its content.

As I've said before, I don't know any of the guys who are involved in this debacle, and I don't know anything about the problems, or who is at fault - if anybody.

I just feel it's such a shame that every time these guys try to promote the Founders Trail, it ends up in a cat fight.

TBH If it was me, I'd sooner not bother.

Same here Booler. Why cant we all just get along?

We ask ourselves the same question repeatedly. Only one site and one site owner can answer that question i'm afraid.

I would like Moonlighter to advertise on VB as the Founders Trail deserves all the coverage it can get but he won't.

Interestingly he doesn't give a reason for it just that he won't.

He is welcome to advertise it on VB anytime he wishes.

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

Jesus wept! You want Censorship under YOUR terms?

Open debate is the cornerstone of the RM on-line democracy.

Yes, it is.

But this is the only forum of which I'm a member, and every time somebody mentions the Founders Trail, we see the same people going over the same issues time and time again.

I'm all for open debate, but this debate always seems to be about other forums, and problems people have with said forums.

Like many others on here, I just get dissappointed when I see division like this among our support.

I've never asked for censorship under my terms either - I'm merely a simple member of the forum and was only suggesting that maybe someone could find a way around this.

I certainly don't want to get to the stage where I just don't open any threads about the Founders Trail, knowing I'm likely to be dissappointed with its content.

As I've said before, I don't know any of the guys who are involved in this debacle, and I don't know anything about the problems, or who is at fault - if anybody.

I just feel it's such a shame that every time these guys try to promote the Founders Trail, it ends up in a cat fight.

TBH If it was me, I'd sooner not bother.

Same here Booler. Why cant we all just get along?

All together now, "Koombayah my Lord, Koombayah......Koombayah my Lord, Koombayah!!"

"All you need is love.....All you need is love!"

(Please begin the sychronised lighter-waving a.s.a.p.)

[MisterC 12,488]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

Jesus wept! You want Censorship under YOUR terms?

Open debate is the cornerstone of the RM on-line democracy.

Yes, it is.

But this is the only forum of which I'm a member, and every time somebody mentions the Founders Trail, we see the same people going over the same issues time and time again.

I'm all for open debate, but this debate always seems to be about other forums, and problems people have with said forums.

Like many others on here, I just get dissappointed when I see division like this among our support.

I've never asked for censorship under my terms either - I'm merely a simple member of the forum and was only suggesting that maybe someone could find a way around this.

I certainly don't want to get to the stage where I just don't open any threads about the Founders Trail, knowing I'm likely to be dissappointed with its content.

As I've said before, I don't know any of the guys who are involved in this debacle, and I don't know anything about the problems, or who is at fault - if anybody.

I just feel it's such a shame that every time these guys try to promote the Founders Trail, it ends up in a cat fight.

TBH If it was me, I'd sooner not bother.

Same here Booler. Why cant we all just get along?

All together now, "Koombayah my Lord, Koombayah......Koombayah my Lord, Koombayah!!"

"All you need is love.....All you need is love!"

(Please begin the sychronised lighter-waving a.s.a.p.)

'ebony and ivory together in perfect harmony!'

[Balgairbear 0]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

Jesus wept! You want Censorship under YOUR terms?

Open debate is the cornerstone of the RM on-line democracy.

Debating this thread is all well and fine, But Name calling, calling people Liars and things get worse Many people on here THOUGHT the OP was SOMEONE else and would NOT beleive him when he told them he was not said person ! IS NOT ON, And still they now think he gives " Shedloads " of money to the person they first thought he was All totally untrue, The OP has told everyone what happens to the money and yet some on here refuse to accept this WHY ? Time to call of the witch hunt guys, and get yourselves onto one of these Trails and see where the money really goes.

[Adoniram 1,919]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

Jesus wept! You want Censorship under YOUR terms?

Open debate is the cornerstone of the RM on-line democracy.

Debating this thread is all well and fine, But Name calling, calling people Liars and things get worse Many people on here THOUGHT the OP was SOMEONE else and would NOT beleive him when he told them he was not said person ! IS NOT ON, And still they now think he gives " Shedloads " of money to the person they first thought he was All totally untrue, The OP has told everyone what happens to the money and yet some on here refuse to accept this WHY ? Time to call of the witch hunt guys, and get yourselves onto one of these Trails and see where the money really goes.

That's the biggest load of codswallop in this entire thread.

Get your facts right next time before you post such garbage.

[caseyjones 3,009]

So the arguing is still going on in this thread? Jesus wept

MisterC - I'm certainly not arguing mate (nobody's replied to any of my posts ) and I'm as saddened as many others that this project should attract so much ill feeling from a handful of individuals. For this reason I felt compelled to post and try to defend the guys responsible for the project.

I also would like to see Admin moving swiftly in future to eliminate these negative posts every time anybody makes an attempt to promote or praise the Founders Trail.

Jesus wept! You want Censorship under YOUR terms?

Open debate is the cornerstone of the RM on-line democracy.

Debating this thread is all well and fine, But Name calling, calling people Liars and things get worse Many people on here THOUGHT the OP was SOMEONE else and would NOT beleive him when he told them he was not said person ! IS NOT ON, And still they now think he gives " Shedloads " of money to the person they first thought he was All totally untrue, The OP has told everyone what happens to the money and yet some on here refuse to accept this WHY ? Time to call of the witch hunt guys, and get yourselves onto one of these Trails and see where the money really goes.

Why won't the OP advertise the tours on VB when he states that he has no interest in any on-going feud? The more people who know about our club's past, the better.