UEFA charge is an opportunity for Rangers

[SteveJ 743]

Rangers have no skeletons in the cupboard, but these songs do the Ibrox men little credit

By JOHN GOW

When the news that UEFA are looking to bring charges against Rangers for sectarian singing, there is hardly a Rangers fan who did not groan with displeasure. It's in the nature of being a supporter that you dislike bad PR for the club you love. It would be easy to metaphorically put your head under the pillow and wish it would all go away. Well it isn't going away. It was never going away.

Some fans pretended it was and nothing could touch the club. They are wrong.

There are people who spend most of their waking life writing about and trying to hurt The Rangers any way they can. In a world without meaning this is their raison d'être. However, let us be clear. Some of the songs Rangers fans sing have become unacceptable, and frankly bizarre, in modern society.

It's not necessary to sing about Chapels and Nuns considering there are more than enough Championships, Cups and victories against Celtic to cheer.

Rangers are standing at a crossroads that has two paths. The first is to blindly walk on the current course. It will be a 'death by a thousand cuts' with a long, slow degradation of Rangers reputation and standing. There will almost certainly be bans from UEFA and the SFA/SPL or Scottish Authorities will eventually be forced to make their mark. This road is exactly what many non-Rangers fans secretly desire.

The second option is to embrace Zero Tolerance, completely forbid the singing of those songs and chants like 'No Pope of Rome', 'The Billy Boys' and 'The Famine Song' but also in return demand Scottish football and society stop all offensive and sectarian songs. Including the terrorist-chic of IRA songs. The charge by some fans that if these songs are banned the club will start to lose part of it's identity is false. Singing about Rangers or even your pride in Britishness is not the same as pejoratively referencing another religion or nationality. In 1960, James Handley writing in 'The Celtic Story' wrote that:

until a Catholic centre-forward in a Rangers blue jersey scores a goal against a Celtic team the tension will persist. If that should ever come to pass then the rabble would be bewildered and all its fire extinguished. The notion that the mob can be ultimately educated to see the folly of its way is a hollow one, for the creatures who compose it are ineducable.

Not only is the text highly inflammatory and surprisingly reminiscent of Graham Spiers, he fails to understand The Rangers support. In the end when his Catholic Rangers player scenario once again came to life, the Maurice Johnston goal did not cause depression amongst Rangers fans but sheer joy. In fact it was even sweeter because it made the Celtic fans feel worse than usual after such a late decider. In the end it has always been about the club winning Championships and beating Celtic.

That is Rangers' identity. This is a crucial point.

Stopping songs about Catholicism or Ireland is not the same as asking Rangers fans to stop singing about Rangers and even of Britishness. Some fans have fallen into the trap of forgetting an identity is for something and not just against something. If the fans do stop then the club can legitimately defend the support. They have done this in the past when certain journalists questioned some pro-British songs. It soon became obvious that their query was not completely driven by an anti-sectarian stance, but to a reaction against any mention of British identity. In the end they had to back down. They had no case.

However if the singing does persist, Martin Bain can hardly be seen to be defending the support if fans mention Famines and Priests. No-one can. Not Bain or any other CEO in the future.

It doesn't matter if fans say they are not insulting those who died in a famine. If you mention a famine you can hardly blame people taking offence. If another fan group quoted the Ibrox Disaster - even if they were not belittling the tragedy - Rangers fans would still find it unacceptable.

It doesn't matter if you elaborate some response that you dislike Catholicism as a religion but have no problems with Catholics. If you sing about "No Pope of Rome" and "No Nuns and no Priests, fuck your Rosary Beads" you will not be taken seriously. It doesn't matter if you sing 'The Billy Boys' and explain that Fenian does not mean Catholic and that Celtic fans sing in praise of Fenians. Society is not a debating chamber. Ideas are transmitted crudely. Sometimes those who make the most noise win.

It has already been decided Fenian means Catholic. Game over. And lets be honest, in the same way some people use H** to mean British or Protestant and then pretend it only means Rangers fans.

There is no way a sizeable - especially young - section of the support does not equate Fenian with Catholic. Now before you get the impression I am just putting on a hair-shirt after a good beating with the big guilt-stick, I would like to re-emphasise - that as well as stopping those songs seen as offensive - Rangers FC and fans should demand zero-tolerance of sectarianism and discrimination from everyone. Demand that everyone should actually follow through on their strong zero-tolerance campaigns and expose them when they don't.

Continue to ask questions if you see double-standards. Ask why it is a crime to be up to your knees in Fenian blood, but not Hibee or any other blood? Politely ask why offensive songs about the Pope are worse than offensive songs praising the IRA? Ask why journalists like Graham Spiers of The Times believes pro-IRA songs are "political" and why Andrew Smith of The Scotsman thinks "any acknowledgement of the Irish Republic can be viewed as pro-IRA" and that "The British Army are guilty of acts of terrorism in Iraqw" (sic) . Demand to know why glorifying guns and violence is acceptable? Query why IRA songs are "political" but UVF songs are sectarian? (Please note I am against both.)

Once questions are asked it will surprise you how many secretly support or defend the IRA, or their own form of bigotry. They get off lightly because they are never asked any difficult questions by a support too busy navel-gazing over a few indefensible songs. Only recently I came across an article by a St Johnstone fanzine interviewing the BBC's Stuart Cosgrove who said:

"One time we were through at Hearts, and we were at Falkirk station on the way, on the same day Rangers were playing Falkirk. It was h*** galore - thousands of them, and there were maybe 40 of us in the CYS from Perth. We got on the train at Falkirk Station, we just opened the windows as it started moving, and gave them "Orange wankers" and all the rest of it, and of course as soon as we were moving - the train stopped and started moving back into the station! The driver must have been a H** or something." - LINK

This is an employee of the same BBC who lecture others on sectarianism. This is the level of debate we are dealing with. It only needs the light of day for it to be exposed for what it is. (Ask yourself if you hear Stuart Cosgrove in the future discussing sectarianism that you won't be better informed about him by knowing that quote.) Rangers fans welcome fans and players from all religions and nationalities.

From Dubliner Alex Stevenson who went onto coach the Republic of Ireland national team to Nacho Novo of Spain and Lorenzo Amoruso of Italy. From the supporters in Rome called 'the Italian Gers' to the Dublin Loyal of Ireland. From a report that show 5% of Rangers fans in Glasgow are Catholic (4% of Celtic fans in Glasgow are Protestant) to the Gers proud Asian fans.

No-one cares because they share the support of The Rangers Football Club. However, wider society doesn't see this. They only see the stereotype projected and hear nonsense songs. They naturally assume the worst. So accept the challenge.

Take the opportunity to make the Ibrox experience noisy and colourful. Sing about the magic of Rangers history. If there are non-football songs make sure it is for a positive identity we can share together. Society wants Zero Tolerance so lets give it to them. Start demanding the zero tolerance of all offensive/racist/bigoted songs. Not only is it the right moral choice but it's the best action for the club.

There is nothing to fear. Rangers have no skeletons in the cupboard. Let us see if others can say the same.

Source

[SteveJ 743]

Now this article says a lot of what I try to say but end up saying it wrongly. Excellent article.

[TheNuts 552]

excellent

[Zappa6995 3,693]

[H72 265]

Very well-written article.

[govanbluenose 2]

Very well written and alot rang true with me

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

I sing these songs, But there are plenty of Rangers songs to be sung,I remember going to ibrox for the first time when i was about 9 or 10. And there was alot of Rangers songs getting sung through out the game.

Fuck knows what has happened to them now. These cunt in the media and Uefa are just going to keep fining us and attempting to through us out of Europe.

And if Rangers don't get taken over we won't be able to afford these fines.

[Doc_Gorman 3]

Not read the full article, I will find time later but by the gist of it the fella has hit the nail on the head.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Its as if i wrote it myself

[blueben_d 40]

It's a very good article, but are we not back here because we DID stop as we were asked but none of the rest was stopped and now we've gone full circle?

As long as we are the only ones targeted many people will not stop or will soon return if they do as they will see the injustice in only us being targeted time and time again

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

Hatred for the manky mob will only get worse, If the media and uefa only look at Rangers all the time. When we all know that Every away game Celtic play,they sing there I.R.A. Songs for the full 90 mins.

And not once have they cunts been reported for it. Also how many times have they disrupted minute silences?? How many times have these cunts had protests for what ever reason?

And we get pulled up for sinning one or 2 songs, which have been getting sung for hundreds of years.

[spangles 7]

Rangers have no skeletons in the cupboard, but these songs do the Ibrox men little credit

By JOHN GOW

When the news that UEFA are looking to bring charges against Rangers for sectarian singing, there is hardly a Rangers fan who did not groan with displeasure. It's in the nature of being a supporter that you dislike bad PR for the club you love. It would be easy to metaphorically put your head under the pillow and wish it would all go away. Well it isn't going away. It was never going away.

Some fans pretended it was and nothing could touch the club. They are wrong.

There are people who spend most of their waking life writing about and trying to hurt The Rangers any way they can. In a world without meaning this is their raison d'être. However, let us be clear. Some of the songs Rangers fans sing have become unacceptable, and frankly bizarre, in modern society.

It's not necessary to sing about Chapels and Nuns considering there are more than enough Championships, Cups and victories against Celtic to cheer.

Rangers are standing at a crossroads that has two paths. The first is to blindly walk on the current course. It will be a 'death by a thousand cuts' with a long, slow degradation of Rangers reputation and standing. There will almost certainly be bans from UEFA and the SFA/SPL or Scottish Authorities will eventually be forced to make their mark. This road is exactly what many non-Rangers fans secretly desire.

The second option is to embrace Zero Tolerance, completely forbid the singing of those songs and chants like 'No Pope of Rome', 'The Billy Boys' and 'The Famine Song' but also in return demand Scottish football and society stop all offensive and sectarian songs. Including the terrorist-chic of IRA songs. The charge by some fans that if these songs are banned the club will start to lose part of it's identity is false. Singing about Rangers or even your pride in Britishness is not the same as pejoratively referencing another religion or nationality. In 1960, James Handley writing in 'The Celtic Story' wrote that:

Not only is the text highly inflammatory and surprisingly reminiscent of Graham Spiers, he fails to understand The Rangers support. In the end when his Catholic Rangers player scenario once again came to life, the Maurice Johnston goal did not cause depression amongst Rangers fans but sheer joy. In fact it was even sweeter because it made the Celtic fans feel worse than usual after such a late decider. In the end it has always been about the club winning Championships and beating Celtic.

That is Rangers' identity. This is a crucial point.

Stopping songs about Catholicism or Ireland is not the same as asking Rangers fans to stop singing about Rangers and even of Britishness. Some fans have fallen into the trap of forgetting an identity is for something and not just against something. If the fans do stop then the club can legitimately defend the support. They have done this in the past when certain journalists questioned some pro-British songs. It soon became obvious that their query was not completely driven by an anti-sectarian stance, but to a reaction against any mention of British identity. In the end they had to back down. They had no case.

However if the singing does persist, Martin Bain can hardly be seen to be defending the support if fans mention Famines and Priests. No-one can. Not Bain or any other CEO in the future.

It doesn't matter if fans say they are not insulting those who died in a famine. If you mention a famine you can hardly blame people taking offence. If another fan group quoted the Ibrox Disaster - even if they were not belittling the tragedy - Rangers fans would still find it unacceptable.

It doesn't matter if you elaborate some response that you dislike Catholicism as a religion but have no problems with Catholics. If you sing about "No Pope of Rome" and "No Nuns and no Priests, fuck your Rosary Beads" you will not be taken seriously. It doesn't matter if you sing 'The Billy Boys' and explain that Fenian does not mean Catholic and that Celtic fans sing in praise of Fenians. Society is not a debating chamber. Ideas are transmitted crudely. Sometimes those who make the most noise win.

It has already been decided Fenian means Catholic. Game over. And lets be honest, in the same way some people use H** to mean British or Protestant and then pretend it only means Rangers fans.

There is no way a sizeable - especially young - section of the support does not equate Fenian with Catholic. Now before you get the impression I am just putting on a hair-shirt after a good beating with the big guilt-stick, I would like to re-emphasise - that as well as stopping those songs seen as offensive - Rangers FC and fans should demand zero-tolerance of sectarianism and discrimination from everyone. Demand that everyone should actually follow through on their strong zero-tolerance campaigns and expose them when they don't.

Continue to ask questions if you see double-standards. Ask why it is a crime to be up to your knees in Fenian blood, but not Hibee or any other blood? Politely ask why offensive songs about the Pope are worse than offensive songs praising the IRA? Ask why journalists like Graham Spiers of The Times believes pro-IRA songs are "political" and why Andrew Smith of The Scotsman thinks "any acknowledgement of the Irish Republic can be viewed as pro-IRA" and that "The British Army are guilty of acts of terrorism in Iraqw" (sic) . Demand to know why glorifying guns and violence is acceptable? Query why IRA songs are "political" but UVF songs are sectarian? (Please note I am against both.)

Once questions are asked it will surprise you how many secretly support or defend the IRA, or their own form of bigotry. They get off lightly because they are never asked any difficult questions by a support too busy navel-gazing over a few indefensible songs. Only recently I came across an article by a St Johnstone fanzine interviewing the BBC's Stuart Cosgrove who said:

This is an employee of the same BBC who lecture others on sectarianism. This is the level of debate we are dealing with. It only needs the light of day for it to be exposed for what it is. (Ask yourself if you hear Stuart Cosgrove in the future discussing sectarianism that you won't be better informed about him by knowing that quote.) Rangers fans welcome fans and players from all religions and nationalities.

From Dubliner Alex Stevenson who went onto coach the Republic of Ireland national team to Nacho Novo of Spain and Lorenzo Amoruso of Italy. From the supporters in Rome called 'the Italian Gers' to the Dublin Loyal of Ireland. From a report that show 5% of Rangers fans in Glasgow are Catholic (4% of Celtic fans in Glasgow are Protestant) to the Gers proud Asian fans.

No-one cares because they share the support of The Rangers Football Club. However, wider society doesn't see this. They only see the stereotype projected and hear nonsense songs. They naturally assume the worst. So accept the challenge.

Take the opportunity to make the Ibrox experience noisy and colourful. Sing about the magic of Rangers history. If there are non-football songs make sure it is for a positive identity we can share together. Society wants Zero Tolerance so lets give it to them. Start demanding the zero tolerance of all offensive/racist/bigoted songs. Not only is it the right moral choice but it's the best action for the club.

There is nothing to fear. Rangers have no skeletons in the cupboard. Let us see if others can say the same.

Source

Here's a better idea, how about the club and us standing up for OUR rights, and fuck the handwringers, let a court try and tell us that being loyal and supporting the Defender of the Faith is a crime. Here's me silly chunt that I am thinking that fuckers who piss on the flag and defile the memory of the brave of all nations and faiths, who support indiscriminate murderers with their songs,collection tins, mhanky banners and flags, seems they are right and we are wrong, aye that will be fuckin right. :angry:

[Ace 3,556]

An excellent article and mirror's my own feelings on this whole debacle.

It does fly in the face of many opinions on this board and the wider support but i see it as the only way forward for the club.

Sort out our own house, then go after everyone else ... People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, so lets med our windows then smash theirs.

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

So what I've learned is STUART COSGROVE IS A DIRTY FENIAN!!

Na, in all seriousness, I think this is the way most Rangers fans see things but just struggle to get it out as well as the guy who wrote that article.

[dmartin809 4]

Good article. The word sectarian is no doubt overused at the moment and our enemies will use it at every opportunity with regard to us singing. The 30 plus years I've been following the Gers I honestly can't remember getting any huge response from other fans when we sing tbb, npor, the famine song etc all the so-called offensive ones. Where we do piss the enemy off is when we sing (the o.p touches on it slightly) our pro British songs. That's the real reason "no one likes us" in our country. The annoying thing for the enemy is that they can do absolutely fuck all about it and imo is why they're queueing up to take a pop at our "easier" targets. My point is, lets go down the road to really pissing them off and lets have whole games of god save the Queen, Rule Britannia the dambusters, hell maybe even throw in a land of hope and glory or something similar. Then we can sit back and watch the scumbags squirm thinking they forced us down this road. It's not admitting defeat, we'll still sing them in our clubs and the bands will still play them but if we do stop singing them at games lets make sure we replace them with songs we know will hurt them even more. We are the people.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Stupendous article - sort out our own issues and take the moral high ground - shame to many people on here are hell bent on bringing the club down rather than taking this stance!

[Rangers_Youth 6]

"society is not a debating chamber" i dont agree with this, why should we bow down and accept anything thrown at us??

[BobbyS 77]

Excellent article. Very well presented.

[TOBL 1]

Excellent article. Very well presented.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Can I just ask anyone in this thread that's loving that article (I'm neither here nor there with it, it gives both sides of the coin and is well written) .... what's so wrong with singing anti-IRA/provo songs aswell as Loyalist songs?

Someone please answer me.

[spangles 7]

Can I just ask anyone in this thread that's loving that article (I'm neither here nor there with it, it gives both sides of the coin and is well written) .... what's so wrong with singing anti-IRA/provo songs aswell as Loyalist songs?

Someone please answer me.

cos you are a stranger without honour in your own land, a second class citizen fucked at every turn by taig lovers and pc fuckwits.

[minstral 5,375]

To all members who think this is a fantastic article, why have you all nor been singing all the Rangers songs that you are going on about. I do not go to the games any more but Ibrox is so quiet so why are you all not singing the Rangers songs.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

Imagine we took UEFA on and beat them ... too many have had their ambitions diminished by Murray

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Imagine we took UEDFA on and beat them ... too many have had their ambitions diminished by Murray

I think there's a section of our support who like to show their true colours themselfs when it comes to the old Loyalist/anti tim songs debate.

No-one does anti-Rangers prejudice quite like some of our own.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

I always felt that Murray himself was quite happy for UEFA to do his dirty work getting rid of TBB