Ozblue 4,332 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 While reading another post on RM regarding the weak points and strong points about the tenure of Walter Smith, it got me thinking about the many comments I have heard over the years from fellow bluenoses about how Smith was too defensive in his formations and in his tactics, both domestically and in Europe.Now while he could arguably be accused of this in the European arena, could he be accused of this in the domestic League campaigns when he was manager?...Was it a Fact or a Myth that Rangers were too defensively minded under Walter?What are your thoughts, fellow RM members?Here's a list of all the FULL SEASONS from 1991-92 under Walter, with our goals scored in the League and the team that scored the next best amount It also gives the position where the 2nd highest goalscores finished in the league.1991-92 Rangers Champions ~ 101 goals.....................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 88 goals-3rd in league.1992-93 Rangers Champions ~ 97 goals.......................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Aberdeen 87 goals -2nd in league.1993-94 Rangers Champions ~ 74 goals..............2nd highest goalscorers-Aberdeen -2nd + Motherwell-3rd with 58 goals each.1994-95 Rangers Champions ~ 60 goals......................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Motherwell 50 goals-2nd in league.1995-96 Rangers Champions ~ 85 goals.......................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 74 goals-2nd in league.1996-97 Rangers Champions ~ 85 goals........................................................2nd highest goalscores-Celtic 78 goals-2nd in league.***1997-98 Rangers Runners-up ~ 76 goals....................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 64 goals-Championswe had 38 goals against...Celtic had 24 goals against ...and we lost 10 IAR by 2 points and 2 goals 2007-08 Rangers and Celtic both scored 84 goals each but they conceded 7 goals less and we lost the league by 3 points. We all know why we lost the league...Thanks very much SPL and SFA for all your fairness and sporting integrity 2008-09 Celtic - 80 goals.......................................2nd highest goalscorers - Rangers 77 goals ~ Champions 2009-10 Rangers Champions ~ 82 goals............................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 75 goals-2nd in league2010-11 Rangers Champions ~ 88 goals............................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 85 goals-2nd in league.So in all those seasons that Walter was in charge, we topped the scoring charts in every season bar one...and funnily enough we won the league that year also.So was Walter Smith a defensively minded manager, or is it a myth? You be the judge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Mustard 380 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 While reading another post on RM regarding the weak points and strong points about the tenure of Walter Smith, it got me thinking about the many comments I have heard over the years from fellow bluenoses about how Smith was too defensive in his formations and in his tactics, both domestically and in Europe.Now while he could arguably be accused of this in the European arena, could he be accused of this in the domestic League campaigns when he was manager?...Was it a Fact or a Myth that Rangers were too defensively minded under Walter?What are your thoughts, fellow RM members?Here's a list of all the FULL SEASONS from 1991-92 under Walter, with our goals scored in the League and the team that scored the next best amount It also gives the position where the 2nd highest goalscores finished in the league.1991-92 Rangers Champions ~ 101 goals.....................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 88 goals-3rd in league.1992-93 Rangers Champions ~ 97 goals.......................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Aberdeen 87 goals -2nd in league.1993-94 Rangers Champions ~ 74 goals..............2nd highest goalscorers-Aberdeen -2nd + Motherwell-3rd with 58 goals each.1994-95 Rangers Champions ~ 60 goals......................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Motherwell 50 goals-2nd in league.1995-96 Rangers Champions ~ 85 goals.......................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 74 goals-2nd in league.1996-97 Rangers Champions ~ 85 goals........................................................2nd highest goalscores-Celtic 78 goals-2nd in league.***1997-98 Rangers Runners-up ~ 76 goals....................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 64 goals-Championswe had 38 goals against...Celtic had 24 goals against ...and we lost 10 IAR by 2 points and 2 goals 2007-08 Rangers and Celtic both scored 84 goals each but they conceded 7 goals less and we lost the league by 3 points. We all know why we lost the league...Thanks very much SPL and SFA for all your fairness and sporting integrity 2008-09 Celtic - 80 goals.......................................2nd highest goalscorers - Rangers 77 goals ~ Champions 2009-10 Rangers Champions ~ 82 goals............................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 75 goals-2nd in league2010-11 Rangers Champions ~ 88 goals............................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 85 goals-2nd in league.So in all those seasons that Walter was in charge, we topped the scoring charts in every season bar one...and funnily enough we won the league that year also.So was Walter Smith a defensively minded manager, or is it a myth? You be the judge. Ha Ha. Fucking brilliant. Defensive Walter...excellent!Just shows you how perceptions change when tarriers put out the propoganda.No Surrender Sir Walter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrox_Nights 429 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 If asked, I wouldn't have said we had scored so many more than that lot in a couple of those Seasons! Good read that mate Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWalterSmithLegend 206 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Sadly our game is not just about domestic football, our brand, business, name, whatever, is much more than that, i love watching us in Europe and refuse to ignore it. The 90's, the days when we spent more money than every club in Scotland put together and were able to match and exceed wages of top English sides. Outscoring the shite in this league wasnt anything special, being the dominant force we were in Scotland, our test was on the European arena, where he failed miserably. Definetely a myth that we were defensive though, i mean, guys like Durie, Laudrup, Hately, McCoist, Mikhailichenko, JJ, Negri, Gazza, Van Vossen, Bo Andersen, Salenko, Albertz, Rozental, Big Dunc etc were not defensive players! One could say, Walters gung-ho approach in the 90's is what cost us in Europe, what destroyed teams in Scotland, didnt get that same freedom in Europe.Even on his return, we were the highest spenders in Scotland, by a distance, so again, being the team who scores the most and wins the most, was what was expected of him given the budgets he had to play with. Europe again though, a miserable failure although not as much emphasis was put on succeeding in Europe this time round due to the fiancial change in the footballing world, we were no longer amongst the top dogs. He still had to do the business of course and domestically its hard to argue against his record. Its very impressive. So, to answer your original question, First time round, domestically, it was a myth. He bought more attackers than defenders and he let them play. Second time round, domestically, despite scoring the most goals in a dreadful league, we were horrendous to watch and quite often on the back foot against some right shite opponents, so i have to go against the stats and go with what i watched and say its fact that he is/was defensively minded, but its probably a matter of opinion. He was trying to steady a sinking ship so its maybe understandible second time round.Its also nice to know we have outscored the Gallowgate Galacticos consistantly though, listening to the mhedia and reading the press one would think they were a free scoring carbon copy of Barcelona! Heres an interesting stat from our spending under Walter -Average spend first time round was around £8m per year.Average spend second time round was around £8.4m per year.Might look quite alot for a Scottish club but the net spend was pretty low. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimfanciesthedude 25,246 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 i dont think anyone really thought that he was defensive the first time aroundhis second time he was, we were just lucky enough to have players way better than the rest, that could play defensively and still open up the opponents Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 While reading another post on RM regarding the weak points and strong points about the tenure of Walter Smith, it got me thinking about the many comments I have heard over the years from fellow bluenoses about how Smith was too defensive in his formations and in his tactics, both domestically and in Europe.Now while he could arguably be accused of this in the European arena, could he be accused of this in the domestic League campaigns when he was manager?...Was it a Fact or a Myth that Rangers were too defensively minded under Walter?What are your thoughts, fellow RM members?Here's a list of all the FULL SEASONS from 1991-92 under Walter, with our goals scored in the League and the team that scored the next best amount It also gives the position where the 2nd highest goalscores finished in the league.1991-92 Rangers Champions ~ 101 goals.....................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 88 goals-3rd in league.1992-93 Rangers Champions ~ 97 goals.......................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Aberdeen 87 goals -2nd in league.1993-94 Rangers Champions ~ 74 goals..............2nd highest goalscorers-Aberdeen -2nd + Motherwell-3rd with 58 goals each.1994-95 Rangers Champions ~ 60 goals......................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Motherwell 50 goals-2nd in league.1995-96 Rangers Champions ~ 85 goals.......................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 74 goals-2nd in league.1996-97 Rangers Champions ~ 85 goals........................................................2nd highest goalscores-Celtic 78 goals-2nd in league.***1997-98 Rangers Runners-up ~ 76 goals....................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 64 goals-Championswe had 38 goals against...Celtic had 24 goals against ...and we lost 10 IAR by 2 points and 2 goals 2007-08 Rangers and Celtic both scored 84 goals each but they conceded 7 goals less and we lost the league by 3 points. We all know why we lost the league...Thanks very much SPL and SFA for all your fairness and sporting integrity 2008-09 Celtic - 80 goals.......................................2nd highest goalscorers - Rangers 77 goals ~ Champions 2009-10 Rangers Champions ~ 82 goals............................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 75 goals-2nd in league2010-11 Rangers Champions ~ 88 goals............................................................2nd highest goalscorers-Celtic 85 goals-2nd in league.So in all those seasons that Walter was in charge, we topped the scoring charts in every season bar one...and funnily enough we won the league that year also.So was Walter Smith a defensively minded manager, or is it a myth? You be the judge. don't really like stats easily mis interpreted but one of the arguments I put forward is that the game is all about winning and to win you have to score more goals than every one else no matter how the team is set up and Walter sure knew how to put out winning teams Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmalade1872 40 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 walter will do for me Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbo 588 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Interesting read. Rep to the original poster.I think domestically we do some times exaggerate how defensive Walter was in his second tenure at the club. Sometimes playing in a defence manner was forced upon him due to the players available. We have to remember though that for all the defensive formations costing us they also worked wonders at times Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kplfishtank 4,700 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 i put that question to one of our walter haters on here about him being negative and asked him to qaulify it with stats...... he never replied surprisnglywell done OZ on doing my job for me.....im a lazy fecker Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JograBear 1,075 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Walter played a defensive style of football (anti-football) second time around. The opposition were second rate hence the number of goals. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianBacon 2,088 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 i put that question to one of our walter haters on here about him being negative and asked him to qaulify it with stats...... he never replied surprisnglywell done OZ on doing my job for me.....im a lazy fecker Aye, as seen on another thread ("CB, could you pass on.....blah-blah-blah!"). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kplfishtank 4,700 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Aye, as seen on another thread ("CB, could you pass on.....blah-blah-blah!").shut it ya baldy wee tube Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimfanciesthedude 25,246 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Interesting read. Rep to the original poster.I think domestically we do some times exaggerate how defensive Walter was in his second tenure at the club. Sometimes playing in a defence manner was forced upon him due to the players available. We have to remember though that for all the defensive formations costing us they also worked wonders at times "due to the players available" smith signed most of our current squad Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunslinger 270 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 the stats rarely back up rangers media myths. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
docspiderman 1,270 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 My memory tells me that he became defensive in his final year where we seemed to play 5 at the back.The cup final when we played Bjorklund, who had a nosebleed if he left our 18 yard box,at right wing back was the final straw in that sickening season. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
minstral 5,375 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 My memory tells me that he became defensive in his final year where we seemed to play 5 at the back.The cup final when we played Bjorklund, who had a nosebleed if he left our 18 yard box,at right wing back was the final straw in that sickening season.Yes he did became defensive and cost us 10 in a row, but straying away a bit, who would have thought that Hearts could score 132 goals in a season. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmalade1872 40 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 i think is was walter who signed gary stevens and david robertson two very good full backs in my mind Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek1872 548 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Did people say he was defensive first time around? If anything he was very attacking then. Not convinced the second time around though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmalade1872 40 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 the cup final win against hearts was one of the best perfomances from any of walters teams oh yes Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozblue 4,332 Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 i put that question to one of our walter haters on here about him being negative and asked him to qaulify it with stats...... he never replied surprisnglywell done OZ on doing my job for me.....im a lazy fecker Aye nae problem fishtank...Always glad to help a fellow bluenose out Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozblue 4,332 Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Yes he did became defensive and cost us 10 in a row, but straying away a bit, who would have thought that Hearts could score 132 goals in a season.You've got to admit,minstral....That was some team the jambos had then. Played 34 ~ won 29 ~ drew 4 ~ Lost 1 ... scored 132 goals...29 against ...62 points (2pts for a win) and romped the league by a 13 point margin over usWe were 2nd top scorers with 89 goals that season btw! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunslinger 270 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 he's always liked to play on the break. he's also always been a fan of Italian football. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
minstral 5,375 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 You've got to admit,minstral....That was some team the jambos had then. Played 34 ~ won 29 ~ drew 4 ~ Lost 1 ... scored 132 goals...29 against ...62 points (2pts for a win) and romped the league by a 13 point margin over usWe were 2nd top scorers with 89 goals that season btw!You are correct OZ. that was some Hearts team. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozblue 4,332 Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ha Ha. Fucking brilliant. Defensive Walter...excellent!Just shows you how perceptions change when tarriers put out the propoganda.No Surrender Sir Walter.And they do it with impunity at every turn, CM Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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