Scotland can't house RFC, and there is no solution

[Ricky_ 893]

The meltdown that Scottish football faces is no surprise to many of us who predicted it. Although not many would have foreseen events unfolding like they have, we've known for many years now it was all going to end badly for Scottish football.

Let's rewind to 2005. That marked the 20th anniversary of league dominance by Rangers & Celtic. The Glasgow clubs had an iron grip over the game in Scotland. With the ability to sell out 60'000 seater stadiums and both sides consistantly posting average attendances in the region of 50'000. Both sides boasting turnovers over £50m & both sides having respective runs in both the Champions League & UEFA cup competitions.

Amist talk of the big 2 moving elsewhere, the SPL was consistantly reconstructed to milk the Old Firm cash cow. More teams, less teams, a split system... all to accomodate & designed to give the viewing public 4 Old Firm clashes per season, and bring in the juicey TV cheque & other commerical benefits it brings.

Many times throughout this ugly episode we've heard a common phrase. No, i'm not talking about the infamous "sporting integrity" (which i challenge anyone to say with a straight face when talking about scotish football), but "cut your cloth accordingly".

Many fans & some within the media have simply shrugged off the impending hardship for the SPL clubs with this phrase. Some clubs have been given a scathing criticism that their finances a reliant upon 1 club.

this is a flawed opinion to hold on the basis that the clubs don't rely on 1 club, the SPL business model does. It's not the fault of these clubs that the SPL is like (in the words of Raith Rovers vice Chairman, Turnbull Hutton) "a dead parrot. It’s financially unsustainable."

His comments come following various media interviews with SPL top man Neil Doncaster who has openly admitted that the commerical & TV contracts in place with the SPL all contain exit clauses, which were put in place because sponsors of the SPL feared the OldFirm may leave for elsewhere leaving the smaller clubs, which simply doesn't offer the same commerical value. The individual clubs are not to blame, their business model is based upon the income they recieve mainly from TV revenue & ticket sales. Other income streams would be sponsorsip and merchandise. Essentially, with this change in the league set-up, they are looking at seeing every income stream slashed.

Not because of the misdeeds of 1 club as Doncaster put it, but due to the league set-up which isn;t fit for purpose. A league set-up that specifically designed to maximise commerical value from the Old Firm clashes, and bosses crossing their fingers each season for a close title race between the big 2. Nobody else matters.

Ask yourself this, what would have happened if either side failed to make the top 6? Would SKY excersize a clause in the contract to reduce the TV money for that season because they were missing out on their 4 Old Firms?

Scottish football has been an extremely flawed model for over 2 decades now, and it's a problem thats been well recognised for some time. 1 man who has consistently tried to drill this point home has been Walter Smith, while urging the Old Frim to move elsewhere. While Rangers & Celtic compete domestically in Scotland, every other club is resigned to competing in a dead league and sponging off them. The Old firm on the other hand are stuck competiting against much smaller teams who offer them no competition, and the size of the clubs throw Rangers & Celtic a dilemma of finding a way to compete in europe against other clubs of a similar size (such as Arsenal or Inter), while competing in a league of the SPL's quality.

considering all of the above mentioned, is their any solution that can make Scottish football a successful product while the big 2 are competing domestically? In my opinion, no, the only soltuion for both the big 2 clubs to reach thier full potential requires a move elsewhere. And for the rest of Scottish football to reach thier full potential, it means competing against each other for the title each season, with exciting title run-ins between a number of clubs (Motherwell, Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee United), and showcasing Edinburgh/Dundee derby matches, which would allow the SPL clubs to break free from the Old Frim shackles and develop & grow as clubs.

[Big Al 55 9,293]

Well written, only possible option would be European League IMO. Or alternatively we could use our combined strength to force Sky to improve the deal for Scottish Football, unfortunately like it or not Scottish Football will not get better until the opposition get stronger... that means more money for them.

Which is why I believe that the vote yesterday was more to do with league reconstruction than sporting integrity. The SPL clubs can now force through re-construction without the OF veto, hell they can even vote for a shared gate receipt. See how the Dhims like that

[Ricky_ 893]

Well written, only possible option would be European League IMO. Or alternatively we could use our combined strength to force Sky to improve the deal for Scottish Football, unfortunately like it or not Scottish Football will not get better until the opposition get stronger... that means more money for them.

Which is why I believe that the vote yesterday was more to do with league reconstruction than sporting integrity. The SPL clubs can now force through re-construction without the OF veto, hell they can even vote for a shared gate receipt. See how the Dhims like that

true, that can be the only logical way forward in terms of long term progression for these clubs now. Rumour has it that Dundee United reckon they can flog off Mackay-Steven & Johnny Russell to deal with the shortfall in the short term loss of TV deals, perhaps phase II of that plan is to get 50% of CFC gate recipets (& RFC when we return) + an equal share of any kind of TV deal that the SPL can get.

[Guest]

I always thought the SPL would be an OK league if us and the monkeys moved down south.

[Guest]

Well written, only possible option would be European League IMO. Or alternatively we could use our combined strength to force Sky to improve the deal for Scottish Football, unfortunately like it or not Scottish Football will not get better until the opposition get stronger... that means more money for them.

Which is why I believe that the vote yesterday was more to do with league reconstruction than sporting integrity. The SPL clubs can now force through re-construction without the OF veto, hell they can even vote for a shared gate receipt. See how the Dhims like that

Personally, I dont think the quality of the SPL would get better, it would just be better to watch if each team had a chance to win the league. But unless theres better TV money then there wont be more money for the other scottish clubs, their fans have already shown that they dont care about their team they care more about Rangers destruction that their own teams success.

Scottish teams have a handful to a couple hundred real fans, and then a bunch of glory hunters. Not one of them has enough real fans to boost revenue, so whether its now or later, before or after reconstruction, scottish footballs dead. And most fans outside the Rangers and the scum wouldnt even notice.

[philiprfc 1,799]

It's too late for the Scottish game and these clubs to grow I think.

The bottom line is, money rules football. These clubs have small fanbases, pish stadiums, pish facilities, and they're all in debt. Any half decent youngster who comes up from these clubs ends up moving to the OF or down south. The quality of football is shite, and it doesn't stand to get any better if the money dries up.

Who wants to watch that league? Even now, you see chairmen and people in the media saying "Hopefully now, the fans will get behind their clubs"... What fans? Do they think that the neutrals taking an interest in an OF game will suddenly start supporting Aberdeen or Dundee? Fat chance. Take the OF out of Scotland, and both the clubs and their fans along with future generations are removed from the game. You could argue that the SPL stands to lose far more fans from younger generations since they'll have a local team (Local as in Scotland, I guess) represented in a much better league.

[Ricky_ 893]

It's too late for the Scottish game and these clubs to grow I think.

The bottom line is, money rules football. These clubs have small fanbases, pish stadiums, pish facilities, and they're all in debt. Any half decent youngster who comes up from these clubs ends up moving to the OF or down south. The quality of football is shite, and it doesn't stand to get any better if the money dries up.

Who wants to watch that league? Even now, you see chairmen and people in the media saying "Hopefully now, the fans will get behind their clubs"... What fans? Do they think that the neutrals taking an interest in an OF game will suddenly start supporting Aberdeen or Dundee? Fat chance. Take the OF out of Scotland, and both the clubs and their fans along with future generations are removed from the game. You could argue that the SPL stands to lose far more fans from younger generations since they'll have a local team (Local as in Scotland, I guess) represented in a much better league.

You say 'what fans?' but let me put this to you, Hearts held a parade through Edinburgh after beating hibs and 100,000 hearts fans turned out for it. At the same time, less fans gathered in London for Chelsea's parade of the Champions League Trophy.......

the fans are their in my opinion. Everyone was talking about how great the Scottish cup final between Hibs/Hearts would be. I think without the OF we'd see that kind of enthusiasm alot more often. The fans are thier, the product isn't.

[Ivybank 4,632]

You say 'what fans?' but let me put this to you, Hearts held a parade through Edinburgh after beating hibs and 100,000 hearts fans turned out for it. At the same time, less fans gathered in London for Chelsea's parade of the Champions League Trophy.......

the fans are their in my opinion. Everyone was talking about how great the Scottish cup final between Hibs/Hearts would be. I think without the OF we'd see that kind of enthusiasm alot more often. The fans are thier, the product isn't.

bollocks.anybody can go out on a street to see a trophy,but ask them to pay 25 quid to go to a game and its a

different story the fans are not there dundee utd played motherwell 3 or 4 games before the end of the season

for what was effectively a champions league place just over 4000 was there pitifull

[gersandy 594]

Good peice my man.

There is a solution though. Scrap Spl, Sfa, and Sfl. We need 2 leagues of 20. Play each other twice (making old firm games more exciting).

We need a Blue Square style conference. Divided into north/south. Integrating teams from the highland league, with teams from junior leagues.

Scrap the league cup as its now a burst tyre. Introduce regional cups, like a glasgow cup, central scotland, or highland cups.

Firstly though, we need to rid our game of these greedy englush cunts in charge.

[philiprfc 1,799]

You say 'what fans?' but let me put this to you, Hearts held a parade through Edinburgh after beating hibs and 100,000 hearts fans turned out for it. At the same time, less fans gathered in London for Chelsea's parade of the Champions League Trophy.......

the fans are their in my opinion. Everyone was talking about how great the Scottish cup final between Hibs/Hearts would be. I think without the OF we'd see that kind of enthusiasm alot more often. The fans are thier, the product isn't.

Is that how many people were out in the streets during the parade then? 100,000? I don't believe the number of actual Hearts supporters who were out for it is anywhere near that number. Sounds like a figure generated by the Sevilla calculator.

Sure, the significance of the final generated some interest, along with the novelty of it not including either OF club, as normal when that happens. But as they get to more and more finals, it'll wear off, and without the finance (Although, consider that Hearts are already a ticking time-bomb) the quality isn't going to get any better, and people will lose interest.

[Big Al 55 9,293]

"The bottom line is, money rules football. These clubs have small fanbases, pish stadiums, pish facilities, and they're all in debt. Any half decent youngster who comes up from these clubs ends up moving to the OF or down south. The quality of football is shite, and it doesn't stand to get any better if the money dries up."

--

Bolton, Blackburn.... Pish football teams with pish stadia, few fans, but get £60M for being relegated. have you watched any lower end EPL football recently, it is absolutely garbage.

Have you seen the figures recently regarding the proportion of Scottish Sky subscribers? We have far more power than we realise, not for a minute suggesting anyone will be able to get us singing from the same hymm sheet,

[nachothelegend 1,932]

Is that how many people were out in the streets during the parade then? 100,000? I don't believe the number of actual Hearts supporters who were out for it is anywhere near that number. Sounds like a figure generated by the Sevilla calculator.

Sure, the significance of the final generated some interest, along with the novelty of it not including either OF club, as normal when that happens. But as they get to more and more finals, it'll wear off, and without the finance (Although, consider that Hearts are already a ticking time-bomb) the quality isn't going to get any better, and people will lose interest.

Half of them where Tourists Mate .

[philiprfc 1,799]

"The bottom line is, money rules football. These clubs have small fanbases, pish stadiums, pish facilities, and they're all in debt. Any half decent youngster who comes up from these clubs ends up moving to the OF or down south. The quality of football is shite, and it doesn't stand to get any better if the money dries up."

--

Bolton, Blackburn.... Pish football teams with pish stadia, few fans, but get £60M for being relegated. have you watched any lower end EPL football recently, it is absolutely garbage.

Have you seen the figures recently regarding the proportion of Scottish Sky subscribers? We have far more power than we realise, not for a minute suggesting anyone will be able to get us singing from the same hymm sheet,

But they happen to share a league (or happened) with Man Utd, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool etc. Man Utd support alone is estimated to make up half of the SKY viewing figures for the EPL.

I agree with you, but what's happened to English football is simply not going to happen here. The stone is set.

[Ricky_ 893]

bollocks.anybody can go out on a street to see a trophy,but ask them to pay 25 quid to go to a game and its a

different story the fans are not there dundee utd played motherwell 3 or 4 games before the end of the season

for what was effectively a champions league place just over 4000 was there pitifull

Well perhaps you're right, perhaps there are fans their but they are being priced out. How many fans would feel like going along to see their team play another SPL club on a Saturday when the quality on show is so poor, when the atmosphere is generally shite, and for half the price they can go to cinema and throw in a hot dog & bucket of popcorn? The entertainment factor isn't there to inspire the general population to go along to the games, or offer value for money. Maybe if it was a £5 a ticket it would. Perhaps selling stadiums out for £5 a ticket would generate an all round better atmosphere & product than having a few hardcore fans showing up paying silly money to watch utter pish.

[Ricky_ 893]

"The bottom line is, money rules football. These clubs have small fanbases, pish stadiums, pish facilities, and they're all in debt. Any half decent youngster who comes up from these clubs ends up moving to the OF or down south. The quality of football is shite, and it doesn't stand to get any better if the money dries up."

--

Bolton, Blackburn.... Pish football teams with pish stadia, few fans, but get £60M for being relegated. have you watched any lower end EPL football recently, it is absolutely garbage.

Have you seen the figures recently regarding the proportion of Scottish Sky subscribers? We have far more power than we realise, not for a minute suggesting anyone will be able to get us singing from the same hymm sheet,

::

aye Bolton's stadium is shite:

and both those teams average aroudn 25,000 per game. They also manage to beat us to the likes of Goodwillie, and let's be honest, we couldn't comepte with any EPL team over the past 6+ years when trying to sign players.

[Big Al 55 9,293]

My honest opinion is we should copy the German league. The only sustainable football model in the world and its working perfectly. You can get into a Bayern game for about 6 euros I believe.

The Scottish fans are deserting in droves because;

1. It arduous to watch in many cases

2. It costs a far too much

Not only that but the people who can afford to go can't necessarily afford to take the next generation of fans... their kids.

I remember being lifted over the turn style by my dad to get into Ibrox, happy days,

[Big Al 55 9,293]

aye Bolton's stadium is shite:

Thats what £60M parachute payments do for you, ok but everything else I said was right.

[southcoastbear 1,639]

"The bottom line is, money rules football. These clubs have small fanbases, pish stadiums, pish facilities, and they're all in debt. Any half decent youngster who comes up from these clubs ends up moving to the OF or down south. The quality of football is shite, and it doesn't stand to get any better if the money dries up."

--

Bolton, Blackburn.... Pish football teams with pish stadia, few fans, but get £60M for being relegated. have you watched any lower end EPL football recently, it is absolutely garbage.

Have you seen the figures recently regarding the proportion of Scottish Sky subscribers? We have far more power than we realise, not for a minute suggesting anyone will be able to get us singing from the same hymm sheet,

But the powers at be never went to the trouble of even making it look like they were even seriously considering an their own scottish football channel if the deal from sky was crap did they. As far as I'm aware they just went to sky and let them know they were the only game in town bar espn so when they did a deal we were screwed.

Did they even do a token trial of televising a few 1st division games on a digital channel to sow a few seeds of doubt in sky's mind, hell they could probably have flown it under community tv, cost would have been comparitively negligable. I really wonder who employs these numpties sometimes.

[ianbear007 15]

You got me there mate I am going to bar myself from the site now.

You wrote this on one of your posts recently "for nothing as far as i'm aware". You picked out a small error of mine ,I am returning the favour, i'm is the wrong way to put this it should always be written "as far as I am aware".

Just for future reference.

[ianbear007 15]

You got me there mate I am going to bar myself from the site now.

You wrote this recently on this thread "for nothing as far as i'm aware". You picked out a small error of mine ,I am returning the favour, "I'm aware" is the wrong way to put this it should always be written as far as I am aware.

Just for future reference.

[Ricky_ 893]

You got me there mate I am going to bar myself from the site now.

You wrote this recently on this thread "for nothing as far as i'm aware". You picked out a small error of mine ,I am returning the favour, "I'm aware" is the wrong way to put this it should always be written as far as I am aware.

Just for future reference.

wtf? not had you're medication today?

[ianbear007 15]

You got me there mate I am going to bar myself from the site now.

You wrote recently on this thread "as far as i'm aware". You picked out a small error of mine ,I am returning the favour. This should always be written "as far as I am aware".

Just for future reference.

[Ricky_ 893]

You got me there mate I am going to bar myself from the site now.

You wrote recently on this thread "as far as i'm aware". You picked out a small error of mine ,I am returning the favour. This should always be written "as far as I am aware".

Just for future reference.

Just for future reference, you're a cunt. Or should that be, 'you are a cunt' ?

[ianbear007 15]

Just for future reference, you're a cunt. Or should that be, 'you are a cunt' ?

my sincere apologies mate I have multi posted this message to to the wrong person.this message was for a septic c--- posting on the site.

i need to brush up on my computer skills

[JCDBigBear 10,832]

My honest opinion is we should copy the German league. The only sustainable football model in the world and its working perfectly. You can get into a Bayern game for about 6 euros I believe.

The Scottish fans are deserting in droves because;

1. It arduous to watch in many cases

2. It costs a far too much

Not only that but the people who can afford to go can't necessarily afford to take the next generation of fans... their kids.

I remember being lifted over the turn style by my dad to get into Ibrox, happy days,

15 Euros for limited standing areas at Bayern games. Prices in other areas between 30 and 70 Euros.

It's the price of tickets which is killing Scottish football in my opinion. My 3 season tickets are £1300 in total which is £68 per home league game. Burgers, pies, coke are mega-priced in the grounds. My last trip up to Inverness was about £130 including fuel.