Union Bears Moving Back Into Cr

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

Good statement from the UB, it would appear it's the club that's been a bit clumsy with this.

Going by what they are saying the only place they could reasonably go is right into the back corner of either CR1 or CR5.

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

That's an excellent statement by the UBs. Up to individuals now to let the club know their opinions.

[trains 588]

give them the club deck

where the old club deck loyal used to be

Piss off as thats where our ST's are

Seriously though, its fair enough that the Club have put the survey out there but if the long term ticket holders in CR dont want to move then no more should be said about it. If the Club go ahead regardless of the feedback then as a minimum the UB should be asked to compensate every person to be moved and pay for their new seats for next season. Why should any group feel they can just move into another section en masse and people who have been in that section for years should be shifted, people get attached to their own little part of Ibrox due to the memories and family history that comes with supporting Rangers.

Edit. Just seen the UB statement and it was a decent well explained post that does provide decent reasoning for why the move would be a good idea and the possible advantages for all concerned. That said, if the current ST holders in that area dont want to move then that should be the end of it and I wont even get into the debate why returning boycotters should get to freely displace anyone who has provided continious support.

Also, it wasnt needed to finish with this line:

"I'm grateful that the new Board have embraced our ideas and bought into them, it's something we go none of from the criminals of the past."

Because it just opens the door for people to point out that the boycotters get preference from DK's board for doing his dirty deed's or that you get a better deal from the current criminals! Keep that sort of sentence out of the Bears Den and in the boardroom forum where it belongs.

[Tiger Shaw 30,865]

That's an excellent statement by the UBs. Up to individuals now to let the club know their opinions.

Mate will it just be UB members who get moved, or will other BF1 ST holders get the option to move over with them ?

[trains 588]

Mate will it just be UB members who get moved, or will other BF1 ST holders get the option to move over with them ?

This is where it becomes an out of control monster because other people will have got ST's beside the UB because they want to participate to the atmosphere and want to be part of that. Where do you draw the line though?

[Rutherford12 1]

It was either the tarts or hivs game had the ub down the copland end, from the sj rear the atmosphere felt a lot better with noise from both sides. Made a nice change from the silence when the boycotters didn't bother showing up. Although the product didn't help either.

But I don't think ST holders should be forced to move.

Why not stick the ub in the copland end of the main stand or club deck? Not often packed in there so don't know how many St holders in those bits.

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

Mate will it just be UB members who get moved, or will other BF1 ST holders get the option to move over with them ?

No idea.

I would imagine the UBs will allow others to move with them. If you have renewed in BF1 you can still move your seat and the club will just charge to the price difference.

[JCDBigBear 10,865]

You must be near me fanatic Im in Row R

Row BB about 4 rows from the back.

[folkestoneger 8,448]

Union Bears

I didn't get a chance to post a full explanation from our side last night and there has unfortunately been a lot of misinformation posted. That was always the danger of the club sending out survey without full explanation.

Firstly, some background as to where we came from as a group. It is correct that the Union Bears were located in CR1 from 2007-2011. During that time we probably had around 20 participants and were more a group of mates than anything serious. There was an awful lot of bad blood between members and other fans in CR1, with wrongs on both sides. Primarily some within a seated section wanting to stand and sing is simply not going to go down well, people had to be given the choice.

In 2011 we were approached by The Blue Order and asked if we'd move to a joint section in BF1. The cub had earmarked that section as it was easiest to Police and control, there was never at any time a choice of where this section would be, it was BF1 or nowhere. We decided that for our group to grow into the singing/tifo/ultras group we all wanted we'd have to move from CR1, and this is what we done.

Since then we have grown massively in BF1, and until last year's boycott we controlled the entire section and had it generating at times a very good atmosphere. We returned from our boycott in December last year and have been there in force every game since then. As we stated at the time we did not attend the League Cup semi final as a group because it would have been unfair on those fans who had been attending all season.

It has never been lost on us the constraints of our current section and I'd therefore like to list why we feel that we need a move from BF1 and the Broomloan in general:

1) Noise and participation. Due to our location in the furthest corner of the stadium a lot of the noise we generate is simply lost. There is no roof over us to project the noise and at times most of the stadium can't hear what's been sung. Indeed any decent travelling support would have no problem outdoing us vocally because of their prime location. This has shown over the years in the little participation from rest of the stadium compared to the BF5 days.

2) Overcrowding. Because the Broomloan Front is mostly single-match tickets we have a huge problem with new faces every week migrating over to the section and making it extremely difficult to move and potentially a hazard. Indeed, the club have previously stated it could lead to the Ibrox safety certificate being removed.

3) Glasgow Derby. Before our relegation to the 3rd division our section was moved to the Govan West Corner to accommodate the taigs in the Broomloan. It's always something we've been bitter about and feel that your most vocal section of the stadium should not be in a position where it needs to be moved for any set of away fans. It breaks up any consistency established in the section because we're not all grouped together in that corner.

Those are the main reasons that we feel that our current position isn't in the best interest of the club, the team or the support in general.

Let me make absolutely clear that this decision is NOT to deliverately antagonise other supporters by moving them from their seats, it is simply to improve the atmoshphere at Ibrox. We have a 51'000 capacity stadium, those who want to sit and simply watch the game have absolute reign, best seats in the house and always will have. However, if you want to support in a more vocal way (which spurs the team on as many players have admitted) you are put in a small corner of the ground with little influence on the atmosphere, no matter how hard you try.

That leads me to our meeting with the club. We met with John Gilligan and David Martin and outlined the reasons above as to why the atmosphere at Ibrox won't continue to improve if the singing section is located in BF1. They understood our position, agreed that change had to happen and promised to do some work to identify an alternative.

The alternative is the Copland Rear. From a logistical and emotional point of view it is the area with the least season ticket holders outwith the Club Deck and Broomloan (due to family section). This means that if it were decided the club would move the singing section to a section in the Copland Rear, anyone who wanted to be moved could be easily accommodated in a similar or better position.

We intimated to the club that if fans had to be moved to accommodate our section that everyone in our section would pay a bit extra on our season ticket for a couple of seasons in order to give those having to be moved a discount on theirs. The club felt this was a positive idea. We also stated that anyone being moved should be allowed to pick their seats before public sale and be moved along with family or close friends they sit beside.

For us as a group we believe the Copland should be where any singing section at Rangers is located. For many years it was the focal point of noise inside the old Ibrox and indeed today still holds the mantra of "when the Copland sings, Ibrox sings".

Why the Copland Rear for us as a group? The noise would be incredible! Right under the roof with a full section of fans giving their all could be special, and it could change the tide of atmosphere at Ibrox. It would be a consistent section of season ticket holders who are there every game, not being moved for away fans and not having to deal with overcrowding issues which plague BF1.

And of course, it can also logistically be the ideal place to trial safe standing in the hopefully not to distant future.

We believe that there should exist a fair choice in football. A choice where all those who want to stand and sing can do so and be in a location which serves the purpose, whilst all those who want to sit with friends and watch the game can do so as always.

We've all seen what our support is capable of, the Ibrox roar is second to none in world football and I defy anyone who doesn't want to hear that on a regular basis.

Hopefully this clears up many of the unanswered questions for those in the Copland Rear who could be affected and everyone else with an interest. I'd urge all those returning their survey not just to say "**** off" and dismiss it, but to have a think about what we're proposing and what we can potentially achieve.

I'm grateful that the new Board have embraced our ideas and bought into them, it's something we go none of from the criminals of the past.

A reasonable statement with one very important detail missing.

Exactly when did this meeting with the club take place

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Row BB about 4 rows from the back.

I'll look out for you if we are not re-located.

[gazza27 15,338]

So not one of the ub were at the Rangers Celtic game is that what they're saying?

[Albertz_3 51]

So not one of the ub were at the Rangers Celtic game is that what they're saying?

No they clearly stated that they did not attend the game as a group. Members of the UB did attend the game as they were entitled to just like thousands of other Rangers fans that day.

[Clemdog 39,389]

I think it's a good statement by the Union Bears and one that should maybe have gone out with the Club's email/letter.

Rangers have obviously thought it out, in the sense it's the lowest area of ST holders in the Stadium. It's also a positive that the UB have said they would pay more so others could be moved into an even better area.

I completely understand that many fans, like JCD, have grown friendships with everyone around them like I have in my own seat. Which would certainly unsettle fans.

But there was never going to be a point when everyone agreed, so it'll just be down to the Club to see how they play it.

One thing I don't understand are posters who say it's unfair on CR ST holders, then saying move them to another area of the Stadium. At the end of the day if the UB are going to be moved for the good of the atmosphere, to anywhere else in the Stadium, then there's going to need to be compromise somewhere.

[DavieCooper1 19]

You could explain please why having previously boycotting neds most of whom are not old enough to remember pre Souness, leaping around far away from the pitch brings a better atmosphere....

U honestly trying to tell me they don't bring atmosphere and colour who cares if their young what's wrong with that does that mean they can't be classed as a real Rangers fans. I agreed with the boycot our club was sinking and we had to show and do something I don't think anyone should be judged for this. All top clubs in Europe have a signing section behind the goals so why should we not have if it will create a better atmosphere

[daviecooper01 826]

U honestly trying to tell me they don't bring atmosphere and colour who cares if their young what's wrong with that does that mean they can't be classed as a real Rangers fans. I agreed with the boycot our club was sinking and we had to show and do something I don't think anyone should be judged for this. All top clubs in Europe have a signing section behind the goals so why should we not have if it will create a better atmosphere

Why should their wishes be taken ahead of say 30 year st veterans?

They can stay where they are. They went there. They don't like it, tough.

[folkestoneger 8,448]

U honestly trying to tell me they don't bring atmosphere and colour who cares if their young what's wrong with that does that mean they can't be classed as a real Rangers fans. I agreed with the boycot our club was sinking and we had to show and do something I don't think anyone should be judged for this. All top clubs in Europe have a signing section behind the goals so why should we not have if it will create a better atmosphere

We already have a singing section behind the goals

[folkestoneger 8,448]

I think it's a good statement by the Union Bears and one that should maybe have gone out with the Club's email/letter.

Rangers have obviously thought it out, in the sense it's the lowest area of ST holders in the Stadium. It's also a positive that the UB have said they would pay more so others could be moved into an even better area.

I completely understand that many fans, like JCD, have grown friendships with everyone around them like I have in my own seat. Which would certainly unsettle fans.

But there was never going to be a point when everyone agreed, so it'll just be down to the Club to see how they play it.

One thing I don't understand are posters who say it's unfair on CR ST holders, then saying move them to another area of the Stadium. At the end of the day if the UB are going to be moved for the good of the atmosphere, to anywhere else in the Stadium, then there's going to need to be compromise somewhere.

Being moved against your wishes is not compromise

At the very least they could have given an indication of where they may want to move you to.

After all the season ticket uptake last year was less than 50% of the capacity of the stadium and if the CR has the least number of season tickets then surely they could have said we can guarantee you a seat somewhere in CR if only one section is required

It has been extremely badly handled and does not bode well for the future if the new MD has fucked up so badly in week one

[AlBear. 8,499]

Being moved against your wishes is not compromise

The compromise is sitting near the UB. Being moved is for those who don't want to sit near the UB.

That's how I read it anyway. Might be way off.

[folkestoneger 8,448]

The compromise is sitting near the UB. Being moved is for those who don't want to sit near the UB.

That's how I read it anyway. Might be way off.

If they want a section then people will have to be moved against their wishes otherwise we could all just say I am happy to be in the singing section. Where would they put them if everybody said that?

However if that is all you have to do to keep your seat then fine. I am right at the front so nobody will be standing up in front of me anyway

If they want me to move they should immediately make a seating plan available which show seats with no season ticket holder and ask you if you have an alternative you would be happy to take. eg I am a bit claustrophobic so need an aisle seat that is as near the front as possible.

My current seat is perfect for me but I would not take a seat stuck right up in the middle

[Clemdog 39,389]

Being moved against your wishes is not compromise

At the very least they could have given an indication of where they may want to move you to.

After all the season ticket uptake last year was less than 50% of the capacity of the stadium and if the CR has the least number of season tickets then surely they could have said we can guarantee you a seat somewhere in CR if only one section is required

It has been extremely badly handled and does not bode well for the future if the new MD has fucked up so badly in week one

The UB never met with him so I don't think you can right him off all things considered, even if his name was on the bottom of the letter.

I'd imagine the Club will try their hardest to move them to a similar seat or better one, like they did with the ST holders in BF1.

No matter if it's ST holders in the Govan, Copland or Club Deck if the Club want to move the UB to improve the atmosphere then a comprise will need to be met by the Club and said ST holders.

[SuperAli 1,353]

1. Why should I move from where I've sat for over a decade to suit UB? I've paid my money for years non-stop through thick and thin without boycotting any games.
2. Why do they need to move out of where they are in the first place when it will clearly just annoy supporters who will be displaced.
3. UB may have been created in 2007 and been situated in the Copland Rear but I and a lot of others have had season tickets there from well before 2007 and probably before a lot of the UB members were even born.
4. Are you aware of what the % of those responding in rejection to the proposal have to be for the Club to reject the idea outright?
5. Who in the Club decided to pursue this idea and why?
6. There are at least a dozen of us, friends and family, who sit directly beside each other, can you guarantee that we will all be re-seated next to each other elsewhere in the stadium?
7. If we are moved elsewhere, with potentially an increased value ticket, will the UB who have displaced the fans be willing to pay the difference in price year on year and not just for the first year?

[the goal machine 7,824]

1. Why should I move from where I've sat for over a decade to suit UB? I've paid my money for years non-stop through thick and thin without boycotting any games. 2. Why do they need to move out of where they are in the first place when it will clearly just annoy supporters who will be displaced. 3. UB may have been created in 2007 and been situated in the Copland Rear but I and a lot of others have had season tickets there from well before 2007 and probably before a lot of the UB members were even born. 4. Are you aware of what the % of those responding in rejection to the proposal have to be for the Club to reject the idea outright?5. Who in the Club decided to pursue this idea and why?6. There are at least a dozen of us, friends and family, who sit directly beside each other, can you guarantee that we will all be re-seated next to each other elsewhere in the stadium?7. If we are moved elsewhere, with potentially an increased value ticket, will the UB who have displaced the fans be willing to pay the difference in price year on year and not just for the first year?

The UB already suggested to the board that they would pay more for their ST so those that are moved get a discount. And they posted why they felt they need moved, it's a few pages back. It's worth a read.

[Clemdog 39,389]

I find referring to the Union Bears age as petty, it's like them saying we sing the whole game and you don't which makes us bigger supporters.

No matter what age you are or how long you've been there you're a supporter and as equally important as each other. There are exceptions to that of course, but it just seems petty to me.

[folkestoneger 8,448]

The UB already suggested to the board that they would pay more for their ST so those that are moved get a discount. And they posted why they felt they need moved, it's a few pages back. It's worth a read.

They did not say they would pay year on year

If a family was moved from CR to GR it could be hundreds a year more

[rfc_watp 1,503]

It's basically a heads up to season ticket holders in that area that a singing section is being created there and if you don't want to join in or be affected by it, then best move.

As the UB statement said, there was a bit of friction between them and other normal fans when they were last in that location, so the statement is to ensure something like that doesn't happen again.

Just like the UB don't have a divine right to come into a section and have people removed, the people in that section don't have the divine right to keep it a section free of people with conflicting ideas ie singing section.