With what is available, how does Gerrard change it?

[ger4life_1872 29,516]

1 hour ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Im meaning that they use them to attack, their tactics involve them in attack, whereas you don't see motherwell building a system that makes odonnell the focal point of their attacks etc 

They don't though , they use them to fill gaps in midfield while their midfield push up and wide 

[Colin Traive 22,779]

32 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

I didnt say that i said they use his attacking stats to disregard the fact he's very poor, when his defensive ability is brought to light people will say "aye but he scores and assists" 

To be honest, I think “very poor” is a bit strong. Wouldn’t want a “stalwart” who gives nothing away but never crosses the halfway line.

As others say, the positives we gain from having the best attacking full back in the country more than outweigh the rare occasions he is caught out. His preferred protector/cover (Jack) has been absent for some time which hasn’t helped. In our system the wide midfielders need to understand when to support a rampaging full back and when to hold back and cover for him.

Glad he’s one of ours.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,789]

3 minutes ago, Colin Traive said:

To be honest, I think “very poor” is a bit strong. Wouldn’t want a “stalwart” who gives nothing away but never crosses the halfway line.

As others say, the positives we gain from having the best attacking full back in the country more than outweigh the rare occasions he is caught out. His preferred protector/cover (Jack) has been absent for some time which hasn’t helped. In our system the wide midfielders need to understand when to support a rampaging full back and when to hold back and cover for him.

Glad he’s one of ours.

I think it all just comes down to what you personally want from a full back tbh.

People from a certain generation or of a certain age tend to want a solid no nonsense full back who’s first instinct is to defend, because that’s what the grew up with, whereas others, usually younger people, have grown up in the era of full backs mainly being used as an attacking weapon so their defending isn’t quite as important.

Ideal world is you have somebody who does both, but if we had a full back who did both he wouldn’t be playing for us for long because everybody would want to sign him

 

[Colin Traive 22,779]

4 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

I think it all just comes down to what you personally want from a full back tbh.

People from a certain generation or of a certain age tend to want a solid no nonsense full back who’s first instinct is to defend, because that’s what the grew up with, whereas others, usually younger people, have grown up in the era of full backs mainly being used as an attacking weapon so their defending isn’t quite as important.

Ideal world is you have somebody who does both, but if we had a full back who did both he wouldn’t be playing for us for long because everybody would want to sign him

 

Agreed.

In many ways, Sandy was a pioneer in the threat he posed coming forward.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,547]

1 hour ago, DBBTB said:

I think it all just comes down to what you personally want from a full back tbh.

People from a certain generation or of a certain age tend to want a solid no nonsense full back who’s first instinct is to defend, because that’s what the grew up with, whereas others, usually younger people, have grown up in the era of full backs mainly being used as an attacking weapon so their defending isn’t quite as important.

Ideal world is you have somebody who does both, but if we had a full back who did both he wouldn’t be playing for us for long because everybody would want to sign him

 

No, i just dont want a fullback who allows opponents to stroll past him and score headers at ibrox, i dont want fullbacks (or centre halves for that matter) who simply cannot take charge of a situation that leads to us losing the lead yet again

I totally get what he brings to the team, why he plays etc, he has contributed a hell of a lot to us going forward, my concern is that the attacking side can easily dry up as it has done before, and he has nothing defensively to fall back on, essentially if he isnt creating up front then he is almost a man down cause he isnt reliable at the back

 

[Roy Hobbs 2,171]

I'm pretty sure he was part of the team that has the record for fewest goals conceded in a season.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,547]

On 31/10/2021 at 12:19, DBBTB said:

I was defending Tav as recently as last night, but I’m just about out of patience with him too.

 

1 hour ago, DBBTB said:

Because people are capable of weighing up the pros against the cons and the pros he offers us far outweigh the cons. You’ll never do that because you’ve pretty much always leaned on the negative when it comes to Tav.

Funny you were ready to ignore his pros after 19mins of the game at the weekend, 

As i said, the goals and assists have a bigger chance of drying up than tav becoming a defender for us

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,547]

1 minute ago, Roy Hobbs said:

I'm pretty sure he was part of the team that has the record for fewest goals conceded in a season.

So was goldson, hows he getting on this season again? 

[Roy Hobbs 2,171]

Shite. Same as the rest of the team. What's your point? That Goldson can't be relied on either?

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,789]

3 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

 

Funny you were ready to ignore his pros after 19mins of the game at the weekend, 

As i said, the goals and assists have a bigger chance of drying up than tav becoming a defender for us

That’s a post that was clearly made in the heat of the moment during a game. Pretty sure I even said that myself later on in the exact same thread.

 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,547]

2 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

That’s a post that was clearly made in the heat of the moment during a game. Pretty sure I even said that myself later on in the exact same thread.

 

The heat of the moment seems to happen every game the now with tav and goldson, i just dont have any trust in them to not make a cunt of it everytime an opponent comes up the park, 

I dunno maybe i just think we (as in the club) over complicates scottish football, its still shit and in the dark ages almost, imo the flying fullbacks, inside 10's and covering centre mids arent needed to dominate up here, aye in europe they are needed but home is where our priorities lie first imo, at times i think our system and the scottish game combined stifles our actual creative players and instead asks guys who werent brought up as creative players to now be that outlet

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,547]

9 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

Shite. Same as the rest of the team. What's your point? That Goldson can't be relied on either?

Clearly not, tavs been here almost 5 and a half years now, defensive bar last season he is still dodgy, still a potential error, goldaon has been here 3.5 years and bar last season he was very prone to a mistake or two

Motherwell goal on sunday was a complete cluster fuck from both them leading to the corner then goldson at the corner standing ball watching while his man ran onto the rebound

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,789]

4 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

The heat of the moment seems to happen every game the now with tav and goldson, i just dont have any trust in them to not make a cunt of it everytime an opponent comes up the park, 

I dunno maybe i just think we (as in the club) over complicates scottish football, its still shit and in the dark ages almost, imo the flying fullbacks, inside 10's and covering centre mids arent needed to dominate up here, aye in europe they are needed but home is where our priorities lie first imo, at times i think our system and the scottish game combined stifles our actual creative players and instead asks guys who werent brought up as creative players to now be that outlet

Again it probably comes down to personal preference but I would take what we try to do tactically or technically now over stone age like 90’s tactics every day of the week.
 

The game has to move on, if the other teams can’t adapt and modernise then they will be the ones who get left behind even more than they are already.

[Roy Hobbs 2,171]

Both have been poor this season, but every single defender we've had in my lifetime has been prone to an error. It's normal. I'd take Tavernier's 2 or 3 errors each season with his 20 to 30 goal contributions, than a right back that might cost 1 goal and never goes across the half way line.

[bluenoz 30,843]

Tavernier has been below par all season and for the latter part of last season. But if Patterson couldn't get a game during that time, he has no chance in the coming weeks after Tav just played his best game in nine months. I hope Tav regains his confidence after Motherwell because he us a huge threat when playing like that. Not sure where Patterson's future lies.

 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,547]

48 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

Again it probably comes down to personal preference but I would take what we try to do tactically or technically now over stone age like 90’s tactics every day of the week.
 

The game has to move on, if the other teams can’t adapt and modernise then they will be the ones who get left behind even more than they are already.

Thats where the issue lies with Scottish football though, because to teams survival is everything, the money in the top league is everything or nothing, they dont try to pretend it isnt, so moving on isnt really a target for them because they know the OF will win the league every season

Sure they may get an odd cup, but in reality these teams are just "here" some try to move into modern stuff and they either struggle or patch it and go back, even the national team cannot see by a big lumbering brute force up front either

[Mclean RFC 1,271]

i think the team are mentally drained still from last seasons great achievement. they have lost that little bit of spark that made the difference in most games but were still grinding out results like all good teams do.

motivation last year was easy. either win the league or be remembered as the Rangers team that gave them 10 in a row. But the downside would be the enormous mental strain and pressure of such a historically important season.

there was a lot of nervous people last season. even when we had a commanding lead in the league.

 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,547]

17 minutes ago, Mclean RFC said:

i think the team are mentally drained still from last seasons great achievement. they have lost that little bit of spark that made the difference in most games but were still grinding out results like all good teams do.

motivation last year was easy. either win the league or be remembered as the Rangers team that gave them 10 in a row. But the downside would be the enormous mental strain and pressure of such a historically important season.

there was a lot of nervous people last season. even when we had a commanding lead in the league.

 

I dont see how they can still be mentally drained, we won the league in march, almost 8 months ago, it wasnt like they've only had 2 or 3 weeks to recover from a mentally draining 10 month season, ours was done in 8 and tbh it was done way before then when that mob came back from dubai

[Thermopylae 15,286]

One really good result can apparently change everything in football ... I suppose the truth is football fans can he huge optimists and pessimists with the thinnest of cigarette papers between the two talk about an emotional rollercoaster  

[bluenoz 30,843]

38 minutes ago, Thermopylae said:

One really good result can apparently change everything in football ... I suppose the truth is football fans can he huge optimists and pessimists with the thinnest of cigarette papers between the two talk about an emotional rollercoaster  

I was thinking this an hour ago. Sakala is a great example of fickle fans.

[Thermopylae 15,286]

Just now, bluenoz said:

I was thinking this an hour ago. Sakala is a great example of fickle fans.

As Scottish males we are supposed to keep our emotions in line so it's just as well we have football and the drink 

[Corky True Legend 2,682]

On 02/11/2021 at 02:14, Leftpegcoopz11 said:

Tav has been in "indifferent" form this year, and pretty sure I've said a few times he should maybe be dropped for Patterson.

Stats don't lie though. Not just for us, but probably in the SPFL over the last 2/3 years he has the most assists over anyone. No mean feat for a right back/wing back. 

Still think Patterson is wasted on the bench, but what can you do.

 

So just ignore his fuck-ups at the back. Forget the last 2/3 years; we are talking about now. In my opinion, this season is more important than last in view of the potential CL money. We can't afford to keep shipping goals at the back. If you're going by past performance, you will be wanting Gerrard to register as a player or even John Greig.