The confidence in Michael Beale

[born a blue nose 91,251]

Just now, graeme_4 said:

@admin any chance of reopening the covid thread  

😂😂

[The Dude 20,026]

3 minutes ago, graeme_4 said:

@admin any chance of reopening the covid thread  

Just you stick to trying to figure out Twitter 😂

[SIRB_72 4,086]

8 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Net spend is a bit of a red herring when looking at the balance of things.

If you get lucky and bring through a youth player or develop a prospect and sell them on for say £20m (Bassey or Tierney) then invest that into 4 £5m players, for the SPFL this should see an overall strengthening of the team.

Actually looking at the fees spent year on year gives a stronger indication as it takes away any of the crazy outliers that go for crazy money in Scottish terms.

I wouldn't say it is misleading at all. Both ourselves and celtic have to balance our transfers and typically spend more when they have to.

If you want to break it down to just out goings there is about 23 million difference since 2018 between us and celtic. celtic have spent around 109 million where as we've spent 56 million in transfers but we've also increased the wage budget by 30 million in that time. 

Now that's around 4.5 million celtic in theory are spending per season in transfers but the figures show they aren't spending that money compared to us. In the last 5 seasons we've spent 10 million more than celtic.

celtic were only able to spend that 70 million in the last 3 years because they balanced it out with the selling of the likes of frimpong, eduoard, ajer, juranovic and others. The 4 players mentioned brought celtic in somehwere between 45-50 million.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

We don’t really see players in Scotland being bought for £6m etc etc. 

I would say that we are seeing them every year these days.

18/19 - Eduard £10m

19/20 - Julien £8m, Kent £7m

20/21 - Ajeti £5.5m

21/22 - Kyogo £5.4m

22/23 - Jota & Vickers £7m

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I would say that we are seeing them every year these days.

18/19 - Eduard £10m

19/20 - Julien £8m, Kent £7m

20/21 - Ajeti £5.5m

21/22 - Kyogo £5.4m

22/23 - Jota & Vickers £7m

Not sure where you learned to count but 5.5m is less than 6m.

[The Dude 20,026]

17 minutes ago, The Dude said:

We do the same. Which begs the question of why have you used Rangers FC Limited's accounts rather than the parent (Rangers International FC PLC) which list our staff costs at 54.8 million?

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-history/MzM2MzU3MzQxNGFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

You just ignoring this one @mitre_mouldmaster

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

Just now, The Dude said:

Not sure where you learned to count but 5.5m is less than 6m.

When you say '£6m etc etc' I didnt think you meant exclusively £6m No More No Less like the fucking Merchant of Venice.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 66,764]

Fucking mon then

[G.E.C. 19,116]

Just now, The Specky Non Liar - Sometimes said:

Fucking mon then

Everytime I see you post I get sad cause of what happened to Eboue.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 66,764]

1 minute ago, G.E.C. said:

Everytime I see you post I get sad cause of what happened to Eboue.

He's still alive

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

You just ignoring this one @mitre_mouldmaster

No, genuinely didnt see it, lots of replies.

Im lost as to the point you are making though...

From the picture you are showing me, I can see Rangers Staff costs at c£54m, Celtics are c£59m. Its somewhere between £4-5m in difference of the top line wage costs for both clubs.

If there is another set of accounts for Rangers im missing where the figure is about £59m that im missing, I will understand what you mean.

 

[The Dude 20,026]

7 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

When you say '£6m etc etc' I didnt think you meant exclusively £6m No More No Less like the fucking Merchant of Venice.

You know there’s been as many players leave Scottish football for over £10m in recent years than have arrived for over £6m?

patterson, Bassey, tierney, Dembele, eduoard, ajer, van dijk, wanyama, 

[G.E.C. 19,116]

2 minutes ago, The Specky Non Liar - Sometimes said:

He's still alive

Excellent 

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, mitre_mouldmaster said:

No, genuinely didnt see it, lots of replies.

Im lost as to the point you are making though...

From the picture you are showing me, I can see Rangers Staff costs at c£54m, Celtics are c£59m. Its somewhere between £4-5m in difference of the top line wage costs for both clubs.

If there is another set of accounts for Rangers im missing where the figure is about £59m that im missing, I will understand what you mean.

 

The picture from Celtics accounts doesn’t show their staff costs at 59m. 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

The picture from Celtics accounts doesn’t show their staff costs at 59m. 

This one does:-

https://cdn.celticfc.com/assets/downloads/Celtic_Annual_Report_2022.pdf

[The Dude 20,026]

8 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

This one does:-

https://cdn.celticfc.com/assets/downloads/Celtic_Annual_Report_2022.pdf

Right and that includes various subsidiary companies as it’s the group accounts (Celtic FC PLC). The club accounts are Celtic FC limited. Our group accounts are Rangers International FC limited but you quoted our club accts, Rangers FC limited. 
 

if you’re going to compare, at least compare like-for-like. 
 

Also, that’s not one I posted so fuck knows how you managed to call it one I was showing you

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,049]

37 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

No, just as Postecoglu wasnt fired for a 1 off loss against St Mirren last year.

Dropping points in one or two games over the course of a season would not usually be grounds for firing someone.

If we're 9 behind at xmas thats more than one or two games we've dropped points in, over half a season

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

15 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Right and that includes various subsidiary companies as it’s the group accounts (Celtic FC PLC). The club accounts are Celtic FC limited. Our group accounts are Rangers International FC limited but you quoted our club accts, Rangers FC limited. 
 

if you’re going to compare, at least compare like-for-like. 
 

Also, that’s not one I posted so fuck knows how you managed to call it one I was showing you

You literally asked me which ones I was using and I explained which one and why.

You take the top value from each groups set of accounts to provide the overall staff costs, as this would reflect the group cost in total.

As celtic structure their accounts over various entities, we cannot be sure that their staff costs for things such as medical and scouting are actually contained purely on the accounts from the 'club'.

Rangers top line accounts show  c£55m, celtics show c£59m. Its not a £100k difference, its millions. How much of celtics is on players costs is anyone's guess as its not listed anywhere I can see.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

20 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

If we're 9 behind at xmas thats more than one or two games we've dropped points in, over half a season

You said 6 to 9 I think... Cant be fucked checking back.

That could be one loss like to St Mirren and a loss to them. 

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,049]

7 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

You said 6 to 9 I think... Cant be fucked checking back.

That could be one loss like to St Mirren and a loss to them. 

So we lose the first OF game and then lose to st mirren, does that give you confidence that we'd turn it around given the OF game is at ibrox that we lost? 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

Just now, Jimbeamjunior said:

So we lose the first OF game and then lose to st mirren, does that give you confidence that we'd turn it around given the OF game is at ibrox that we lost? 

I would probably think that in half a season, dropping points in 2 games would likely be too early to start lobbing railings at the front gate demanding a change of manager.

My whole kinda point has been about the massive over the top reactions and not being fucked with them at all, so im no really sure how else you expected me to answer this.

What your thoughts? Unless we win the first game of the season by 5 goals and lead the table on goal difference, should we just sack him then?

[The Dude 20,026]

15 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

You literally asked me which ones I was using and I explained which one and why.

You take the top value from each groups set of accounts to provide the overall staff costs, as this would reflect the group cost in total.

As celtic structure their accounts over various entities, we cannot be sure that their staff costs for things such as medical and scouting are actually contained purely on the accounts from the 'club'.

Rangers top line accounts show  c£55m, celtics show c£59m. Its not a £100k difference, its millions. How much of celtics is on players costs is anyone's guess as its not listed anywhere I can see.

The group also includes costs of several businesses which have nothing to do with football. Celtic FC Limited’s staff costs related directly to those employed by Celtic FC rather than some property company. 

[SIRB_72 4,086]

36 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I would say that we are seeing them every year these days.

18/19 - Eduard £10m

19/20 - Julien £8m, Kent £7m

20/21 - Ajeti £5.5m

21/22 - Kyogo £5.4m

22/23 - Jota & Vickers £7m

The majority of these transfers happened within three windows of these big "outlier" transfers outside of Scotland. Demebele for 22 million (2018), Tierney for 27 million (2019) and I'd add to the "outlier" list Edouard and Ajer for a combinined 30 million (2021) because their contracts. Then we add in Bassey for 22/23 million (2022). These types of sales arent really outliers considering there has been 5 in 5 years.

Kyogo, Jota and Carter- Vickers were effectvely bought from the Edouard and Ajer sales.

Edouard was bought prior to the dembele sale but they leveraged CL or dembele that summer. Also Julien was bought from the Tierney sale.

celtic do not sign those 5 players if it wasn't for selling others like we don't spend 15 or so million last year if it wasn't for the Bassey sale.

 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

The group also includes costs of several businesses which have nothing to do with football. Celtic FC Limited’s staff costs related directly to those employed by Celtic FC rather than some property company. 

Cant tell where the costs are from the football club and not with the info we have to be honest.

We also have absolutely no idea what the difference in player wage bill is in particular, which is the most important factor, sop its a pretty pointless debate as that is the key thing to the argument. 

[The Dude 20,026]

2 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Cant tell where the costs are from the football club and not with the info we have to be honest.

We also have absolutely no idea what the difference in player wage bill is in particular, which is the most important factor, sop its a pretty pointless debate as that is the key thing to the argument. 

That’s why using the football clubs accounts rather than the group makes more sense. But then you knew that.