Ibroxblue 122 Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share Posted August 28, 2007 I dont sing it at Ibrox for the sole reason I think its pretty tasteless. However, I dont have any problems for the Rangers support singing it for a few reasons:It winds the tims up to a point ive never seen them at before, its F*cking greatThis will not come back to haunt us, the press wont touch this with a barge pole simply because;Big Jock did indeed know (Anyone who suggests otherwise is kidding themselves on, even the tims dont defend him) Like I said, it has appeared in the papers (and other media) recently, e.g. over DJ Steve McKenna's remark. An article in The Guardian last week (mainly about Strachan at Aberdeen) mentioned it and had a link to youtube footage of Gers fans chanting about it. It was also in the papers when Alan Brazil's autobiography came out. The media are usually vague about it but condemn it (The Guardian said the chants were "beneath contempt" - though they also mentioned something Celtic fans chanted about Davie Cooper). In the Brazil articles Stein was portrayed as a hero for kicking Torbett out. So don't kid yourself it can't get in the media. Winding up Celtic fans is not a good enough reason to do it - lines have to be drawn about what is aceptable material for a wind-up. Being vague about it and condemning it just shows that they are very reluctant to address this issue, if it was the Billy Boys it would be front page news again. Mainly because its in bad taste but apart from that there is nothing incorrect about the chant! As I said, I dont sing it but im not going to chastise Rangers fans for doing so, its about the only thing we are allowed to f*cking sing anymore! Well I could name quite a lot of other things.... You claimed the media "won't touch this with a barge pole". But there are several ways the media can do it, e.g. being vague about the original incident, describing the allegations against Stein as "unfounded" as The Sun did over the McKenna business ("unfounded" is a clever word - it's not actually saying the allegations are false but it gives that impression) or depicting Stein as a hero. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dado 334 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 I dont sing it at Ibrox for the sole reason I think its pretty tasteless. However, I dont have any problems for the Rangers support singing it for a few reasons:It winds the tims up to a point ive never seen them at before, its F*cking greatThis will not come back to haunt us, the press wont touch this with a barge pole simply because;Big Jock did indeed know (Anyone who suggests otherwise is kidding themselves on, even the tims dont defend him) Like I said, it has appeared in the papers (and other media) recently, e.g. over DJ Steve McKenna's remark. An article in The Guardian last week (mainly about Strachan at Aberdeen) mentioned it and had a link to youtube footage of Gers fans chanting about it. It was also in the papers when Alan Brazil's autobiography came out. The media are usually vague about it but condemn it (The Guardian said the chants were "beneath contempt" - though they also mentioned something Celtic fans chanted about Davie Cooper). In the Brazil articles Stein was portrayed as a hero for kicking Torbett out. So don't kid yourself it can't get in the media. Winding up Celtic fans is not a good enough reason to do it - lines have to be drawn about what is aceptable material for a wind-up. Being vague about it and condemning it just shows that they are very reluctant to address this issue, if it was the Billy Boys it would be front page news again. Mainly because its in bad taste but apart from that there is nothing incorrect about the chant! As I said, I dont sing it but im not going to chastise Rangers fans for doing so, its about the only thing we are allowed to f*cking sing anymore! Well I could name quite a lot of other things.... You claimed the media "won't touch this with a barge pole". But there are several ways the media can do it, e.g. being vague about the original incident, describing the allegations against Stein as "unfounded" as The Sun did over the McKenna business ("unfounded" is a clever word - it's not actually saying the allegations are false but it gives that impression) or depicting Stein as a hero. Are any of them sung to the same rousing pitch that BJK was at the last OF game? They can go about it in that way yes, but they wont come out and attack Rangers fans for it in the same way they did the BB, or they would have by now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvager 498 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Personally I think it is in bad taste and that at one point it WILL come back and haunt us. It makes the Rangers fans appear sick and low DESPITE the fact that the incidents happened at CBC. We should DROP it pronto, even if it does wind up the CFC supporters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart_RFC 41 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 its the truth , BJK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvager 498 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 its the truth , BJK Perhaps but celebrating that kind of thing will NOT win you any friends and rightly so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWhiteBlue1872 407 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Whats that song.... "we are Rangers,super Rangers No one likes us..... :classier_than_pipeguy: " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart_RFC 41 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 i personally dont sing it, but nothing against people that do, i dont see how it could come back to haunt us tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dado 334 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Whats that song.... "we are Rangers,super Rangers No one likes us..... :classier_than_pipeguy: " Especially UEFA :pipehorse: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDIGNITY 33,715 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 BJK and so did the squad, backroom staff and directors. That's why the are paranoid about it not appearing in the papers. It's the ones that are still alive and kicking that are worried because they are GUILTY of this heinous crime as much as torbett or cairney by their silence ! And as far as the moral high ground being taken by some don't forget this is the mob that spread a lie about Richard Gough being the same as them. Also this weekend we've had so called journalists lying about the Rangers fans in national newspapers so get off your high horses and start fighting fire with fire. And please somebody give Donald Findlay back his job because at this moment in time there is nobody capable or strong enough to fight our PR corner ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dado 334 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 BJK and so did the squad, backroom staff and directors. That's why the are paranoid about it not appearing in the papers. It's the ones that are still alive and kicking that are worried because they are GUILTY of this heinous crime as much as torbett or cairney by their silence ! And as far as the moral high ground being taken by some don't forget this is the mob that spread a lie about Richard Gough being the same as them. Also this weekend we've had so called journalists lying about the Rangers fans in national newspapers so get off your high horses and start fighting fire with fire. And please somebody give Donald Findlay back his job because at this moment in time there is nobody capable or strong enough to fight our PR corner ? I agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakbear 3,586 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 I agree, I really don't see whats wrong with this. Yes the incident of which Big Jock alledgedly held knowledge is pretty unsavoury, but our reminding the self proclaimed TGFIW of this knowledge is nothing more than a wind up. We are not celebrating that CFC were associated with Paedophillia, we are reminding them that their greatest manager was not lily white. Its not nearly as bad as opposing fans celebrating the Ibrox disaster or Davie Coopers death. PC has gone mad, its just a wind up, they hate it, its brilliant. Its brilliance is in the fact that it is not racist, sectarian, ageist, or even offensive in itself. It doesn't even really matter if Big Jock did actually know, the fact is it winds them up something rotten and they cando hee haw about it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWhiteBlue1872 407 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Well said BLUEDIGNITY Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvager 498 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Sorry, but although BJK there are some topics that are better left alone. This will never do us any good. At least not this way. This matter is better dealt with by someone going after the info under the freedom of information act, looking over court documents, etc, and with that info in hand then asking the right questions to the right people. Not by idiotic chanting at football matches which AGAIN just brings us into view in a bad light. JMO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWhiteBlue1872 407 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Its a fair opinion i suppose.. Just not the one i have Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 It has been reiterated that you can't get a knighthood after you're dead, so that one can be put to bed. Not quite so easy to put to bed Ibroxblue - it hasnt stopped some Celtic minded individuals from trying - and only last month PM rejects Stein knighthood calls - BBC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDIGNITY 33,715 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 It has been reiterated that you can't get a knighthood after you're dead, so that one can be put to bed. Not quite so easy to put to bed Ibroxblue - it hasnt stopped some Celtic minded individuals from trying - and only last month PM rejects Stein knighthood calls - BBC They'll keep on chipping away until one time they'll hope all our backs are turned and they'll get the law changed ! So lest ye forget Bears Big Jock and his colleagues did indeed Know ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibroxblue 122 Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share Posted August 28, 2007 It has been reiterated that you can't get a knighthood after you're dead, so that one can be put to bed. Not quite so easy to put to bed Ibroxblue - it hasnt stopped some Celtic minded individuals from trying - and only last month PM rejects Stein knighthood calls - BBC Key word: "rejected". (A campaign that started months ago and was knocked back nearly two months ago.) If there are such campaigns then that is the time to raise it in a reasonable way (e.g. is there space for comments on the petition? Could you start your own, sensibly-worded petition against it?). I seriously doubt the ban on posthumous knighthoods will be lifted. It would open the floodgates. Spurs fans want one for Nicholson, Liverpool for Shankly and Paisley, Forest for Clough. John Lennon? Guys who died centuries ago? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 It has been reiterated that you can't get a knighthood after you're dead, so that one can be put to bed. Not quite so easy to put to bed Ibroxblue - it hasnt stopped some Celtic minded individuals from trying - and only last month PM rejects Stein knighthood calls - BBC Key word: "rejected". (A campaign that started months ago and was knocked back nearly two months ago.) If there are such campaigns then that is the time to raise it in a reasonable way (e.g. is there space for comments on the petition? Could you start your own, sensibly-worded petition against it?). I seriously doubt the ban on posthumous knighthoods will be lifted. It would open the floodgates. Spurs fans want one for Nicholson, Liverpool for Shankly and Paisley, Forest for Clough. John Lennon? Guys who died centuries ago? Nope the keyword is not relevant - what is relevant is that there is still a movement to have this man honoured - despite the fact his conduct was less than exemplary. I note your comments from the previous thread on this subject several months ago - and would even concur that it was a different time with different attitudes - however that does excuse the fact that he failed to do "the right thing". The fact that posthumous knighthoods are not awarded should not be the benchmark here - the fact that he failed to do everything within his power to stop child abuse - should be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
minstral 5,375 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 its the truth , BJK Perhaps but celebrating that kind of thing will NOT win you any friends and rightly so. we have not got any friends we are hated that much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab 73 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 and would even concur that it was a different time with different attitudes I'm glad I didn't say anything out of turn by saying so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauba30 1 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Just a quick question - how sure are we that Jock knew? Is it documented or alleged? Seriously, I have heard those three words a lot but never had it substantiated Is it documented, alleged or do we have personal testimony? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dado 334 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Just a quick question - how sure are we that Jock knew? Is it documented or alleged? Seriously, I have heard those three words a lot but never had it substantiated Is it documented, alleged or do we have personal testimony? Here come the case for the defence.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy 68 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 At the end of the day, Stein kicked Torbett out because he found out about what was going on. He didn't contact the police or anything. That to me is fucking sick, and the Club which looks upon Stein as some sort of saviour after that are just as bad. People argue that its not our place to sing it, but why shouldn't we tarnish the reputation of a Manager and Club whom covered up such acts ? Big Jock did indeed know, tell the world. http://www.bigjockknew.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauba30 1 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Just a quick question - how sure are we that Jock knew? Is it documented or alleged? Seriously, I have heard those three words a lot but never had it substantiated Is it documented, alleged or do we have personal testimony? Here come the case for the defence.... Not at all - I just don't know - I am seriously interested in how much we know about this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dado 334 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Just a quick question - how sure are we that Jock knew? Is it documented or alleged? Seriously, I have heard those three words a lot but never had it substantiated Is it documented, alleged or do we have personal testimony? Here come the case for the defence.... Not at all - I just don't know - I am seriously interested in how much we know about this. Have a look at the link Davy posted, it should answer all the questions you have Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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