What the HELL is wrong with Scotland

[Canadaready 9,437]

Sometimes I figure that sitting in central Canada taints my view a little bit when it comes to understanding the decisions made by the powers that be regarding things that are sectarian in nature.

For example, I am one that subscribes to the notion that the IRA chants that supporters of Celtic blast out during their matches around the SPL as disgusting. I also feel that the inaction on the part of policy makers to stamp out such incomprehensible terrorist supporting rubbish is a slap in the face of human dignity.

But, it gets better.

First they came for the Billy Boys. Rangers fans gave in and let it go. Then they came for the Famine Song. Again, we submitted to the whims of those who believe they know what is right and what is wrong.

Why did we bother?

It is now apparent that Scotland is suffering from a legitimate case of neglect in terms of common sense. The people who are leading this effort seem to be such a strong underground force that no one with a mind of justice can stand in their way. Consider the following example as my proof.

In recent days, it has come to light that MSP Michael Matheson has led a successful charge in banning the Hokey Cokey (Hokey Pokey for my North American friends) in the most recent football bigotry motion. He states, “It’s important the police and football clubs are aware of the sinister background to this song, and take the appropriate action against individuals who use it to taunt Catholics.”

So, here we are in 2008 and for the first time ever, the Hokey Cokey is under attack as a sinister plot against Catholics. The world just turned their back on Scotland. What a waste of time, effort, newsprint, and tax dollars.

It gets better again.

Not only has Scotland allowed itself to overstep the bounds of rational thought, but the story was published on the front page of The Scottish Sun. In a time when most of the world is concerned about a bleak economic picture and newspapers are covering efforts on how to right the ship, the main story in Scotland is children’s music.

But, I suppose that I could be somewhat unable to grasp the intellectual might of Mr. Matheson and be missing the entire severity of this issue. After all, he could be a very politically educated man with a high understanding of such social issues.

Let’s look.

It seems Mr. Matheson’s background of a Bachelor of Science in Occupational Therapy now makes him the leading expert on bigotry. I suppose he could be backed up by a Bachelor of Arts in Applied Social Sciences? The least he could have done was have gone the academic social sciences route, surely?

Biographical information on this member here:

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msp/memb...heson/index.htm

It would seem the graduate of St. John Bosco Secondary School is a little weak in terms of his educational background on the issue of social policy.

I find it deeply concerning that an individual with such little expertise is allowed to make up and defend such policies. I have my own thoughts on the subject but to be fair, we better look at my background.

With honours degrees in political science, history, and education, I would think that my understanding of situations like this could have a little more concrete substance behind them than the MSP in question. Mix this in with my professional activities and it would be obvious to the reader that I have a background in such debates and decisions.

The situation Scotland is facing with regards to the Hokey Cokey is laughable in many respects. Forget the rest, let us focus on free speech.

There is absolutely no way in the world that the true nature of the children’s tune can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Catholic priests have spoken out to its origin but at the end of the day they are not infallible and I don’t need to point to specifics to prove that. How then, without viable proof, can individuals residing in a free democratic country be muzzled and those in government and the justice system accept it?

At the end of the day, the failures in Scotland with regards to this debate lie firmly in the hands of legislators. The current legislation must not be up to the task if loving songs about the IRA can be sung with pride despite the organization murdering and maiming human beings while the Hokey Cokey is banned without any proof of its origins.

Scottish Parliament, on this front, is an absolute failure.

One can only hope that the country will one day vote and make decisions on non-religious lines. At the rate things are going though, the government would be truly happy to close the doors on Rangers and force those that support Rangers, and maybe even Protestantism, south. At least in England the government respects free speech and due process, not to mention the Queen.

[Orangeclement 572]

Good Ol Scotland, stabbings, gang crime butwhats the powersthat be interested in Yip kids Partys

[Thermopylae 15,287]

I think a lot of RCs have probably always felt this way about the hokey cokey but have bit their lip because they know how ridiculous it sounds to make a big issue about it. Unfortunately what has happened in recent years is that every little complaint they have made about us has been upheld and so they now feel confident enough to raise the matter

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

Catholic priests have spoken out to its origin but at the end of the day they are not infallible

Thats the understatement of the century

[minstral 5,375]

the real agenda is what i have said for a long time, they will not be happy until there is no protestant religon left. all they want is rome rule and rangers football club to be crushed into dust.

[Canadaready 9,437]

Catholic priests have spoken out to its origin but at the end of the day they are not infallible

Thats the understatement of the century

It is a hard hitting line.

[radlord 24]

yes, this Hokey Cokey stuff really is the shooting themselves in the foot with regards to credibility. Which is why Ibrox must rock with it on Saturday.

Plus, get an 'Ireland's Embarrassment' banner with an arrow pointing to them for good measure.

very strange about the timing of this as well.

[airdrieloyal1 6]

the real agenda is what i have said for a long time, they will not be happy until there is no protestant religon left. all they want is rome rule and rangers football club to be crushed into dust.

They will NEVER have any power, The head of this great country will always be protestant. Go home if you want some rule. God Save The Queen

[ManchestGer 347]

yes, this Hokey Cokey stuff really is the shooting themselves in the foot with regards to credibility. Which is why Ibrox must rock with it on Saturday.

Plus, get an 'Ireland's Embarrassment' banner with an arrow pointing to them for good measure.

very strange about the timing of this as well.

Haha I'm liking the Ireland's embarrassment banner, should get it done. I can't wait for the Hokey Cokey to be sung out loud and clear on Saturday

[radlord 24]

Oh yeah and I should mention - I remember months ago I heard some guy on Up All Night on 5Live who was an 'expert' in the derivations of nursery rhymes and stuff. He was also on a TV program I can't for the life of me remember the name of not long after talking about the same stuff.

Anyway someone asked him about the Hokey Cokey and he said the the anti-Catholic stuff was just one theory and nobody really knew what on Earth it was about. It's a really interesting sort of subject actually, a lot of these things we have no idea where they come from.

So, unless some new evidence has come to light recently I think they can stick this theory up their arses

[Thermopylae 15,287]

the real agenda is what i have said for a long time, they will not be happy until there is no protestant religon left. all they want is rome rule and rangers football club to be crushed into dust.

They will NEVER have any power, The head of this great country will always be protestant. Go home if you want some rule. God Save The Queen

Unfortunately too many Protestants give them too much power by the choices they make when they vote.

Minstral's point is a good one since the more ground we give to our enemies the more voraciously they attack us ... I am old enough to remember all the bleeting we used to hear about how there would be no more problems if only Rangers would sign cafflics

[WVB 2,560]

Oh yeah and I should mention - I remember months ago I heard some guy on Up All Night on 5Live who was an 'expert' in the derivations of nursery rhymes and stuff. He was also on a TV program I can't for the life of me remember the name of not long after talking about the same stuff.

Anyway someone asked him about the Hokey Cokey and he said the the anti-Catholic stuff was just one theory and nobody really knew what on Earth it was about. It's a really interesting sort of subject actually, a lot of these things we have no idea where they come from.

So, unless some new evidence has come to light recently I think they can stick this theory up their arses

Right, thats it. I'm agreeing with all the wrong people now. DOCTOR...........

[mccoist355 4]

the real agenda is what i have said for a long time, they will not be happy until there is no protestant religon left. all they want is rome rule and rangers football club to be crushed into dust.

The agenda is PC led. Its nothing to do with grinding Rangers into the dust. Nobody ever complains when we sing Every other Saturday!

The Billy Boys wasnt PC. It fell. The Famine Song wasnt. It Fell. The Sash survived the test when FTP was dropped. It remains. Derrys Walls has also proved resiliant. It remains.

I cant talk about IRA songs sung by Septic as i dont know anything about IRA songs! Athenry? Irish folk song, so they can sing it. The Soldiers Song? ROI national anthem so that can hardly be banned completely. As for "oh ah up the ra" etc, do they even sing this much? Who knows. We need to look at ourselves.

[thebuur 2]

Sometimes I figure that sitting in central Canada taints my view a little bit when it comes to understanding the decisions made by the powers that be regarding things that are sectarian in nature.

For example, I am one that subscribes to the notion that the IRA chants that supporters of Celtic blast out during their matches around the SPL as disgusting. I also feel that the inaction on the part of policy makers to stamp out such incomprehensible terrorist supporting rubbish is a slap in the face of human dignity.

But, it get’s better.

First they came for the Billy Boys. Rangers fans gave in and let it go. Then they came for the Famine Song. Again, we submitted to the whims of those who believe they know what is right and what is wrong.

Why did we bother?

It is now apparent that Scotland is suffering from a legitimate case of neglect in terms of common sense. The people who are leading this effort seem to be such a strong underground force that no one with a mind of justice can stand in their way. Consider the following example as my proof.

In recent days, it has come to light that MSP Michael Matheson has led a successful charge in banning the Hokey Cokey (Hokey Pokey for my North American friends) in the most recent football bigotry motion. He states, “It’s important the police and football clubs are aware of the sinister background to this song, and take the appropriate action against individuals who use it to taunt Catholics.”

So, here we are in 2008 and for the first time ever, the Hokey Cokey is under attack as a sinister plot against Catholics. The world just turned their back on Scotland. What a waste of time, effort, newsprint, and tax dollars.

It get’s better again.

Not only has Scotland allowed itself to overstep the bounds of rational thought, but the story was published on the front page of The Scottish Sun. In a time when most of the world is concerned about a bleak economic picture and newspapers are covering efforts on how to right the ship, the main story in Scotland is children’s music.

But, I suppose that I could be somewhat unable to grasp the intellectual might of Mr. Matheson and be missing the entire severity of this issue. After all, he could be a very politically educated man with a high understanding of such social issues.

Let’s look.

It seems Mr. Matheson’s background of a Bachelor of Science in Occupational Therapy now makes him the leading expert on bigotry. I suppose he could be backed up by a Bachelor of Arts in Applied Social Sciences? The least he could have done was have gone the academic social sciences route, surely?

Biographical information on this member here:

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msp/memb...heson/index.htm

It would seem the graduate of St. John Bosco Secondary School is a little weak in terms of his educational background on the issue of social policy.

I find it deeply concerning that an individual with such little expertise is allowed to make up and defend such policies. I have my own thoughts on the subject but to be fair, we better look at my background.

With honours degrees in political science, history, and education, I would think that my understanding of situations like this could have a little more concrete substance behind them than the MSP in question. Mix this in with my professional activities and it would be obvious to the reader that I have a background in such debates and decisions.

The situation Scotland is facing with regards to the Hokey Cokey is laughable in many respects. Forget the rest, let us focus on free speech.

There is absolutely no way in the world that the true nature of the children’s tune can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Catholic priests have spoken out to its origin but at the end of the day they are not infallible and I don’t need to point to specifics to prove that. How then, without viable proof, can individuals residing in a free democratic country be muzzled and those in government and the justice system accept it?

At the end of the day, the failures in Scotland with regards to this debate lie firmly in the hands of legislators. The current legislation must not be up to the task if loving songs about the IRA can be sung with pride despite the organization murdering and maiming human beings while the Hokey Cokey is banned without any proof of its origins.

Scottish Parliament, on this front, is an absolute failure.

One can only hope that the country will one day vote and make decisions on non-religious lines. At the rate things are going though, the government would be truly happy to close the doors on Rangers and force those that support Rangers, and maybe even Protestantism, south. At least in England the government respects free speech and due process, not to mention the Queen.

Good post m8 ..... what is really worryinh is what us underpinning this ..... we sing this song then we are bigots, the inference being no matter what we do or say it will always be sectarian in nature. This is an attak on our club and shared values

[Canadaready 9,437]

So do you folks think its ok?

[StayWestFree 107]

I wish some Rangers fans weren't so gulliable to fall for this. Its a bam up by The Sun and co. Do you honestly think Celtic fans find this Hokey Cokey song offensive, just because some old minister with outdated ideas says so? Fuck sake.

The Sun have made a front page story out of nothing and blew it out of proportion knowing that they could get the Rangers fans to sing it come Saturday. I mean look at the timing of the story.

The papers have went "Oh heres a chance to make a fuss out of nothing, cause we know if we make a big deal out of this we know we can get all the Rangers fans to sing it". The Sun will be sitting rubbing their hands with glee.

You know what would be good, if we didn't take the bait and just ignored the fucking song and just won the game. The Sun could print "CATHOLICS FIND JESUS OFFENSIVE" and all the Rangers fans would turn up as Jesus or something, no matter how daft the story is.

Honest to fuck people. The Sun will be publishing our songbook next. Terrible.

[minstral 5,375]

the real agenda is what i have said for a long time, they will not be happy until there is no protestant religon left. all they want is rome rule and rangers football club to be crushed into dust.

The agenda is PC led. Its nothing to do with grinding Rangers into the dust. Nobody ever complains when we sing Every other Saturday!

The Billy Boys wasnt PC. It fell. The Famine Song wasnt. It Fell. The Sash survived the test when FTP was dropped. It remains. Derrys Walls has also proved resiliant. It remains.

I cant talk about IRA songs sung by Septic as i dont know anything about IRA songs! Athenry? Irish folk song, so they can sing it. The Soldiers Song? ROI national anthem so that can hardly be banned completely. As for "oh ah up the ra" etc, do they even sing this much? Who knows. We need to look at ourselves.

you are part of what is wrong with our support. all we hear of your type is dont sing this or that and that will be fine. wake up and smell the coffee and come into the real world, not the world of handwringers.

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

The Sun have made a front page story nowing that they could get the Rangers fans to sing it come Saturday. we know if we make a big deal out of this we know we can get all the Rangers fans to sing it". The Sun will be sitting rubbing their hands with glee.

Are you taking the pish mate?

Are you seriously suggesting we'll sing it because the Sun 'can get us to sing it'?

Aye right. If I want to sing it, it'll be for that reason alone - I want to.

[mccoist355 4]

come into the real world, not the world of handwringers.

In fact Minstral, the world where "The Famine Song" is viewed as unacceptable IS THE REAL WORLD! We need to move with the times and not remain stuck in the past and left behind.

90% on here said we need TBB, with 85% of them saying with new words - so id say im in the majority on that one

Most fans i think realise its time we stopped moaning and looked at what fans can do to make a positive difference to the support.

[minstral 5,375]

come into the real world, not the world of handwringers.

In fact Minstral, the world where "The Famine Song" is viewed as unacceptable IS THE REAL WORLD! We need to move with the times and not remain stuck in the past and left behind.

90% on here said we need TBB, with 85% of them saying with new words - so id say im in the majority on that one

Most fans i think realise its time we stopped moaning and looked at what fans can do to make a positive difference to the support.

we gave in to easy and should have fought back. but when you have a owner who is a coward and is happy for all the songs to be banned, then we have got a long hard fight.

[nvager 498]

Yes Scotland has its priorities right once again.

An idiot MP has spoken and all take heed. How can he be taken seriously? Why is HE not publicly ridiculed?

A Scottish Newspaper - a rag to be honest - has picked on the most controversial but parochial subject. It knows that your average Scotsman is REALLY more interested in this subject than the economy or world news. It is correct too. This WILL sell more newspapers along with Page 3. At least Page 3 has some artistic merit.

Its the Scottish mentality - it is different from anywhere else. Even in England this does not really exist. We are a laughing stock.

This religious divide between so called Christians is laughable. Crazy stuff when viewed from abroad.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

"In fact Minstral, the world where "The Famine Song" is viewed as unacceptable IS THE REAL WORLD! We need to move with the times and not remain stuck in the past and left behind."

I know lots of Tims and not one of them finds it offensive.

That is the real world

[BRICKY1872 118]

I've just showed this bollocks to the guys down here in the Falklands. There was much shaking of heads and laughter. Unbelievable. :unionflag:

[Canadaready 9,437]

Yes Scotland has its priorities right once again.

An idiot MP has spoken and all take heed. How can he be taken seriously? Why is HE not publicly ridiculed?

A Scottish Newspaper - a rag to be honest - has picked on the most controversial but parochial subject. It knows that your average Scotsman is REALLY more interested in this subject than the economy or world news. It is correct too. This WILL sell more newspapers along with Page 3. At least Page 3 has some artistic merit.

Its the Scottish mentality - it is different from anywhere else. Even in England this does not really exist. We are a laughing stock.

This religious divide between so called Christians is laughable. Crazy stuff when viewed from abroad.

Well said.

[mccoist355 4]

"In fact Minstral, the world where "The Famine Song" is viewed as unacceptable IS THE REAL WORLD! We need to move with the times and not remain stuck in the past and left behind."

I know lots of Tims and not one of them finds it offensive.

That is the real world

Well enough do to ensure its banned and to ensure we'll get lifted if we sing it - and thats what counts