Walt: I won't wreck Fleck

[Muff 245]

I honestly couldn't give a shit what Wallysauras has to see these days, I'm losing interest fast.

[MikeBlue 136]

Lets all be honest. Walter has no track record whatever of developing and nurturing youngsters as they transition into being a major personality in a side. If I were one of John Fleck's relations, much as I love Rangers, I would be encouraging him to look at the development and advice he is getting.

Now, the counter to that is that JF has made it this far through our system and while Walter is not reassuring, there may be others behind the scenes doing and capable of more.

Indeed - and they might want to point out to JF that Ryan Giggs has had an incredibly long and successful professional career. Maybe that's because he was handled in exactly the way Smith is suggesting, rather played in every game as most of the Man Utd supporters would have wanted. Moyes did the same thing with Rooney btw.

[chris_glasgow 2]

I honestly couldn't give a shit what Wallysauras has to see these days, I'm losing interest fast.

same

[papaguy51 912]

Lets all be honest. Walter has no track record whatever of developing and nurturing youngsters as they transition into being a major personality in a side. If I were one of John Fleck's relations, much as I love Rangers, I would be encouraging him to look at the development and advice he is getting.

Now, the counter to that is that JF has made it this far through our system and while Walter is not reassuring, there may be others behind the scenes doing and capable of more.

Indeed - and they might want to point out to JF that Ryan Giggs has had an incredibly long and successful professional career. Maybe that's because he was handled in exactly the way Smith is suggesting, rather played in every game as most of the Man Utd supporters would have wanted. Moyes did the same thing with Rooney btw.

Neither Rooney or Giggs were 'rested' for anywhere near as long as people like to think.

You could name countless players like Joe Cole, Carrick, Xavi, Messi, Raul, Benzema, Schweinsteiger, Ferdinand etc who have been playing regular football since the ages of 17-19.

[Muff 245]

Fabian Delph, who was 18 at the start of the season has played 31 games o far this season.

How old was Wayne Rooney the season he played 42 games for Everton?

[*Manticore* 1,893]

If you are good enough, you are old enough.

Pele played in a World Cup Final at 17.

Fleck slotted into that team as if he had been there for years.

[Chookes 21]

Indeed - and they might want to point out to JF that Ryan Giggs has had an incredibly long and successful professional career. Maybe that's because he was handled in exactly the way Smith is suggesting, rather played in every game as most of the Man Utd supporters would have wanted. Moyes did the same thing with Rooney btw.

You mention Giggs being rested but in his first full season after signing a professional contract, he played 51 games in all competitions. Maybe that was the reason to his long and successful career.

[papaguy51 912]

Fabian Delph, who was 18 at the start of the season has played 31 games o far this season.

How old was Wayne Rooney the season he played 42 games for Everton?

Rooney played over 80 times for Everton in less than two seasons after his goal v Arsenal.

To suggest that he was rested to the extent that Fleck will be no doubt rested is just blatantly wrong.

Fabian Delph is another brilliant example - he's worth £6-8m now.

And on Ryan Giggs, he played 38 league games in his first full season in the Man Utd senior squad.

[minstral 5,375]

derek johnstone anyone.

[docspiderman 1,243]

Lets all be honest. Walter has no track record whatever of developing and nurturing youngsters as they transition into being a major personality in a side. If I were one of John Fleck's relations, much as I love Rangers, I would be encouraging him to look at the development and advice he is getting.

Now, the counter to that is that JF has made it this far through our system and while Walter is not reassuring, there may be others behind the scenes doing and capable of more.

Ther are suggestions that this happened and why he suddenly "became ready" for first team football.

[MikeBlue 136]

Indeed - and they might want to point out to JF that Ryan Giggs has had an incredibly long and successful professional career. Maybe that's because he was handled in exactly the way Smith is suggesting, rather played in every game as most of the Man Utd supporters would have wanted. Moyes did the same thing with Rooney btw.

You mention Giggs being rested but in his first full season after signing a professional contract, he played 51 games in all competitions. Maybe that was the reason to his long and successful career.

How many of those games was he a sub? He still captained the youth team that season and won the FA Youth Cup in 1992, so he can't have been totally committed to the first team that season. And he was already a year older than Fleck is now when he made his first start.

[Muff 245]

David Villa - loaned out to Sporting de Gijon.

David Silva - loaned out to Eibar

Cesc Fabregas

Ronaldo(Brazilian)

Karim Benzema

Steven Gerrard

Sergio Aguero

Macauley Chrisantus

Ivan Rakitic

Carlos Vela - loaned to Salamanca and Osasuna

Lionel Messi

[papaguy51 912]

Indeed - and they might want to point out to JF that Ryan Giggs has had an incredibly long and successful professional career. Maybe that's because he was handled in exactly the way Smith is suggesting, rather played in every game as most of the Man Utd supporters would have wanted. Moyes did the same thing with Rooney btw.

You mention Giggs being rested but in his first full season after signing a professional contract, he played 51 games in all competitions. Maybe that was the reason to his long and successful career.

How many of those games was he a sub? He still captained the youth team that season and won the FA Youth Cup in 1992, so he can't have been totally committed to the first team that season. And he was already a year older than Fleck is now when he made his first start.

Giggs was a year older than most of the United Youth team of 1992 and was the first one to break into the first team.

I actually have an article on Man Utd's youth side of '92 right here in front of me, interesting stuff.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

derek johnstone anyone.

I'll take that one, m.

If you are good enough you are old enough.

DJ was good enough to score the goal that won our first trophy in 4 years.

Outjumping them lisbon liars with ease....

Fleck is good enough.

[docspiderman 1,243]

In the 50's and 60's there were loads of 16 year olds playing regular first team football despite being brought up with poor nutrition and continued playing.It is only in the last 10 to 15 years that the far stronger, better nourished, bigger physique youngsters are wrapped in cotton wool ONLY in Scotland. Strange that a very tiny minority of our national schoolboy, under 16 and under 19's ever make it in the professional game.

[Chookes 21]

How many of those games was he a sub? He still captained the youth team that season and won the FA Youth Cup in 1992, so he can't have been totally committed to the first team that season. And he was already a year older than Fleck is now when he made his first start.

Being a sub still counts as an appearance. Out of the 42 league games, Giggs was involved in 38 of them, enough time on the pitch to win him PFA Young Player of the Year. At what point was he rested? And he was not that much older than Fleck. He was 17 at the start of that season so he was about half a year or so older. And the fact that he was still fully involved with the youth team means the boy was even less rested. Surely, Giggs, should have been more burned out in that season.

Fleck shouldn't be dropped because of his age. He should be dropped if his form drops, something Smith should use for every player on that pitch, Captain included.

[papaguy51 912]

The simple facts of the matter are as follows:

For every one player you give me that has been well and truly burned out due to half a season of football, I'll give you two that have thrived on it and taken their game to the next level.

[TexasGers 96]

Fleck is very young, and could be prone to being inconsistent, as most other youngsters are that are thrown into the first team. The question is, if Fleck gets into a prolonged slump, would we want him dropped from the team?

Having Fleck play on a more consistent basis is like having a new signing. I know its very early for knee jerk reactions regarding Fleck, but his presence could be a factor that decides where the title goes this year.

[papaguy51 912]

Fleck is very young, and could be prone to being inconsistent, as most other youngsters are that are thrown into the first team. The question is, if Fleck gets into a prolonged slump, would we want him dropped from the team?

Having Fleck play on a more consistent basis is like having a new signing. I know its very early for knee jerk reactions regarding Fleck, but his presence could be a factor that decides where the title goes this year.

A 17 year old with Fleck's talent is as prone to inconsistency as a 30 year old with McCulloch's ability or a 25 year old with Adam's ability.

It's no reason to drop him and I agree with your 2nd par.

[Muff 245]

He's not even that young considering some of the players playing these days - Fleck is 18 in 6 months time.

[papaguy51 912]

He's not even that young considering some of the players playing these days - Fleck is 18 in 6 months time.

Yep.

And let's not forget that Rooney's goal against Arsenal was a week before he turned 17!

[rfc_no1fan 13]

Entirely sensible statement, again obviously meant to dampen the fans expectations a little. And he does say he won't be dropped

for the semi or even shortly

, so there's every chance he'll play against both Dundee Utd and sellick.

I don't see anything to get too down-hearted about, but I'm sure those with an anti-Smith agenda will find whatever they wish to find.

It's the whole "He'll play a few games then get left out for a few games" bit that gets me. It's so blaise.

Does that mean that Fleck will get left out after x number of games regardless of his performances?

Surely something along the lines of "If John keeps up his level of performance then he'll be heavily in our plans for the rest of the season" would be far better.

How would you feel if you were John Fleck reading that you're going to get left out for no apparent reason after a set number of games?

Its good management, and I didnt think I would say that about Walter.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, 3 games in, 2 on the bench. Then bleed Aaron into the team.

Each getting valuable first team experience and learning the game up to a stage where they can both play a big part. Young players form can be erratic and keeping them motivated , hungry and fresh is half the battle

[MikeBlue 136]

Fleck is very young, and could be prone to being inconsistent, as most other youngsters are that are thrown into the first team. The question is, if Fleck gets into a prolonged slump, would we want him dropped from the team?

Having Fleck play on a more consistent basis is like having a new signing. I know its very early for knee jerk reactions regarding Fleck, but his presence could be a factor that decides where the title goes this year.

FFS - no pressure on him them. This is a player who has started two games, the second of which he faded badly in. He hasn't scored a goal and wasn't involved in any of the goals in the games he's played in. But suddenly he's going to make the difference in whether we win the title? It's ridiculous to put that sort of pressure on him

Couple of weeks ago most people on here wanted Aaron to get a game - suddenly forgotten it would seem

[papaguy51 912]

Entirely sensible statement, again obviously meant to dampen the fans expectations a little. And he does say he won't be dropped

for the semi or even shortly

, so there's every chance he'll play against both Dundee Utd and sellick.

I don't see anything to get too down-hearted about, but I'm sure those with an anti-Smith agenda will find whatever they wish to find.

It's the whole "He'll play a few games then get left out for a few games" bit that gets me. It's so blaise.

Does that mean that Fleck will get left out after x number of games regardless of his performances?

Surely something along the lines of "If John keeps up his level of performance then he'll be heavily in our plans for the rest of the season" would be far better.

How would you feel if you were John Fleck reading that you're going to get left out for no apparent reason after a set number of games?

Its good management, and I didnt think I would say that about Walter.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, 3 games in, 2 on the bench. Then bleed Aaron into the team.

Each getting valuable first team experience and learning the game up to a stage where they can both play a big part. Young players form can be erratic and keeping them motivated and hungry is half the battle

If you were a 17 year old Gers fan playing for your heroes, would hunger be an issue to you?

[RyanMac 185]

If you were a 17 year old Gers fan playing for your heroes, would hunger be an issue to you?

No, but in a few years time after achieving so much at a young age, he wants to move to a bigger league. Maybe we are trying to keep him for as long as possible?