Some timing all the same this manchester stuff Eh . . .

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,660]

. . . the night we've got a semi-final. Wonder what they've got planned for us cup final day ?

[dbyst 570]

that will be the court hearing for them prob!!

[reddrock 107]

. . . the night we've got a semi-final. Wonder what they've got planned for us cup final day ?

Would have to say for once we agree BD , dont know if you saw crime watch last night but they showed it all over again with the copper who took the kickin call the fans scum or words to that effect .

more likely than not there will be mention before the final and deffo if we play the mhanks

[British and Proud 0]

It's only been 8 months since that day, wonder why it took them so long?

[ManchestGer 347]

. . . the night we've got a semi-final. Wonder what they've got planned for us cup final day ?

They'll probably come on to the pitch and arrest the players

[reddrock 107]

It's only been 8 months since that day, wonder why it took them so long?

Aye and showed pics of guys in the mob wae green on , cannae see that happening eh , still they showed about 7 mug shots and only 2 of them were clear GMP are straw clutchin , the detective was saying we came hell bent for trouble and was all booze filled

[Leiper 0]

. . . the night we've got a semi-final. Wonder what they've got planned for us cup final day ?

Would have to say for once we agree BD , dont know if you saw crime watch last night but they showed it all over again with the copper who took the kickin call the fans scum or words to that effect .

more likely than not there will be mention before the final and deffo if we play the mhanks

He called the people who done that to him scum...Stop twisting things. If maybe 15-20 people tried to remove your helmet and stamp on your head I am quite sure you wouldn't be best pleased.

[Leiper 0]

It's only been 8 months since that day, wonder why it took them so long?

Aye and showed pics of guys in the mob wae green on , cannae see that happening eh , still they showed about 7 mug shots and only 2 of them were clear GMP are straw clutchin , the detective was saying we came hell bent for trouble and was all booze filled

OMG...Two twisted truths in the past two posts, you're doing well! He never once referred to these people as fans or Rangers fans. He said the majority of violence was alcohol fuelled and some people will have come down just to cause the kind of chaos that happened.

[reddrock 107]

It's only been 8 months since that day, wonder why it took them so long?

Aye and showed pics of guys in the mob wae green on , cannae see that happening eh , still they showed about 7 mug shots and only 2 of them were clear GMP are straw clutchin , the detective was saying we came hell bent for trouble and was all booze filled

OMG...Two twisted truths in the past two posts, you're doing well! He never once referred to these people as fans or Rangers fans. He said the majority of violence was alcohol fuelled and some people will have come down just to cause the kind of chaos that happened.

OMG and you think true bear fans do that sort of thing , watch a rerun ya mug fans was said twice , want me to send you the recording

[Tontospal 1,116]

I would imagine that the reason it took so long is due to GMP having to go through thousands of hours of CCTV footage in order to identify thugs who were captured taking part in criminal acts throughout the day and get the best possible photos from anytime throughout the day.

It amazes me how anyone cannot accept that serious criminal acts took place on that day.

The footage is horrendous and, going by the various images/footage, there are a lot of guilty thugs who have got away with criminal acts.

There was a lot more than 49 involved.

I am not saying for a minute that there wasn't innocent Rangers fans and members of the public caught up in the melee or even attacked by the GMP, and if images are available showing this then suitable action should be taken against GMP.

The attacks on the policeman by a baying mob are disgusting and every single person who chased that policeman and attacked him whilst on the ground should be jailed for a long time, Rangers fan or not.

These thugs have bought shame and disgrace on our club yet some idiots fail to see this.

I only hope that justice prevails for the 49 identified and if they are guilty they are suitably charged and if innocent suitably acquitted.

[Leiper 0]

I don't want you to send me anything. I watched it last night and there was no reason whatsoever why us Rangers fans should be annoyed by what was said last night...

OMG and you think true bear fans do that sort of thing

No, I don't...Point out to me where the hell in my posts it says that...

[outlaw69uk 123]

I would imagine that the reason it took so long is due to GMP having to go through thousands of hours of CCTV footage in order to identify thugs who were captured taking part in criminal acts throughout the day and get the best possible photos from anytime throughout the day.

It amazes me how anyone cannot accept that serious criminal acts took place on that day.

The footage is horrendous and, going by the various images/footage, there are a lot of guilty thugs who have got away with criminal acts.

There was a lot more than 49 involved.

I am not saying for a minute that there wasn't innocent Rangers fans and members of the public caught up in the melee or even attacked by the GMP, and if images are available showing this then suitable action should be taken against GMP.

The attacks on the policeman by a baying mob are disgusting and every single person who chased that policeman and attacked him whilst on the ground should be jailed for a long time, Rangers fan or not.

These thugs have bought shame and disgrace on our club yet some idiots fail to see this.

I only hope that justice prevails for the 49 identified and if they are guilty they are suitably charged and if innocent suitably acquitted.

If proved to be Rangers fans, then, I will agree, and also feel embarrassed personally, however, I find so many aspects of the events questionable, that I will wait to see what happens, and give Bears the benefit of the doubt and not persecute them until then. It seems to be a far bigger deal in Scotland than in England, and, we know how the media up there feel about us, so, it comes as no surprise eh?

[Leiper 0]

I would imagine that the reason it took so long is due to GMP having to go through thousands of hours of CCTV footage in order to identify thugs who were captured taking part in criminal acts throughout the day and get the best possible photos from anytime throughout the day.

It amazes me how anyone cannot accept that serious criminal acts took place on that day.

The footage is horrendous and, going by the various images/footage, there are a lot of guilty thugs who have got away with criminal acts.

There was a lot more than 49 involved.

I am not saying for a minute that there wasn't innocent Rangers fans and members of the public caught up in the melee or even attacked by the GMP, and if images are available showing this then suitable action should be taken against GMP.

The attacks on the policeman by a baying mob are disgusting and every single person who chased that policeman and attacked him whilst on the ground should be jailed for a long time, Rangers fan or not.

These thugs have bought shame and disgrace on our club yet some idiots fail to see this.

I only hope that justice prevails for the 49 identified and if they are guilty they are suitably charged and if innocent suitably acquitted.

If proved to be Rangers fans, then, I will agree, and also feel embarrassed personally, however, I find so many aspects of the events questionable, that I will wait to see what happens, and give Bears the benefit of the doubt and not persecute them until then. It seems to be a far bigger deal in Scotland than in England, and, we know how the media up there feel about us, so, it comes as no surprise eh?

I can see what you're saying. I don't think the blame should be aimed towards all of our fans. There were failings on behalf of the GMC and the GMP which should be addressed.

The GMC were negligent and never took any warnings on board about how many people would be travelling and therefore were unprepared when all the fans came to Manchester.

The GMP were seen to be heavy-handed and there are clips showing this. I don't want to judge because if I were in that position, I can't say I wouldn't be heavy-handed either.

However, there is without a doubt, some Rangers fans, amongst those who got involved in the violence, looting, vandalism etc.

For anyone to just disregard what these people done simply because some innocents were no doubt hurt is terrible.

I know for a fact, in a hypothetical situation, had say, 1000 fans for definite commit violent crimes and police reacted heavily-handed, these actions would still be disregarded by some on this board simply because the police reacted the way they did.

[outlaw69uk 123]

I would imagine that the reason it took so long is due to GMP having to go through thousands of hours of CCTV footage in order to identify thugs who were captured taking part in criminal acts throughout the day and get the best possible photos from anytime throughout the day.

It amazes me how anyone cannot accept that serious criminal acts took place on that day.

The footage is horrendous and, going by the various images/footage, there are a lot of guilty thugs who have got away with criminal acts.

There was a lot more than 49 involved.

I am not saying for a minute that there wasn't innocent Rangers fans and members of the public caught up in the melee or even attacked by the GMP, and if images are available showing this then suitable action should be taken against GMP.

The attacks on the policeman by a baying mob are disgusting and every single person who chased that policeman and attacked him whilst on the ground should be jailed for a long time, Rangers fan or not.

These thugs have bought shame and disgrace on our club yet some idiots fail to see this.

I only hope that justice prevails for the 49 identified and if they are guilty they are suitably charged and if innocent suitably acquitted.

If proved to be Rangers fans, then, I will agree, and also feel embarrassed personally, however, I find so many aspects of the events questionable, that I will wait to see what happens, and give Bears the benefit of the doubt and not persecute them until then. It seems to be a far bigger deal in Scotland than in England, and, we know how the media up there feel about us, so, it comes as no surprise eh?

I can see what you're saying. I don't think the blame should be aimed towards all of our fans. There were failings on behalf of the GMC and the GMP which should be addressed.

The GMC were negligent and never took any warnings on board about how many people would be travelling and therefore were unprepared when all the fans came to Manchester.

The GMP were seen to be heavy-handed and there are clips showing this. I don't want to judge because if I were in that position, I can't say I wouldn't be heavy-handed either.

However, there is without a doubt, some Rangers fans, amongst those who got involved in the violence, looting, vandalism etc.

For anyone to just disregard what these people done simply because some innocents were no doubt hurt is terrible.

I know for a fact, in a hypothetical situation, had say, 1000 fans for definite commit violent crimes and police reacted heavily-handed, these actions would still be disregarded by some on this board simply because the police reacted the way they did.

Hmmm, to continue this, thats probably true, however, as well, what has to be considered is this, and, it doesnt seem to have been mentioned yet,

Scenario -

The non Rangers element looking for trouble, create some (they have the perfect cover dont they?)

GMP react, and, will target whom? They get reports of "trouble breaking out", the will target US

Bears attacked for no apparent reason, fight back.

In THAT situation, I feel that its very unfair to label bears a shame to the club.

Of course, that may not have been the situation, as, we dont know all the details yet, but, I have gigged in Manchester many many times, and, the police over there, as well as a lot of locals, are aresholes, so the above scenario is very likely. I wouldnt play again if it didnt pay so well haha

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,660]

On reportin Scotland there jackie burd claims gmp has been told 29 Names.

[Tontospal 1,116]

I would imagine that the reason it took so long is due to GMP having to go through thousands of hours of CCTV footage in order to identify thugs who were captured taking part in criminal acts throughout the day and get the best possible photos from anytime throughout the day.

It amazes me how anyone cannot accept that serious criminal acts took place on that day.

The footage is horrendous and, going by the various images/footage, there are a lot of guilty thugs who have got away with criminal acts.

There was a lot more than 49 involved.

I am not saying for a minute that there wasn't innocent Rangers fans and members of the public caught up in the melee or even attacked by the GMP, and if images are available showing this then suitable action should be taken against GMP.

The attacks on the policeman by a baying mob are disgusting and every single person who chased that policeman and attacked him whilst on the ground should be jailed for a long time, Rangers fan or not.

These thugs have bought shame and disgrace on our club yet some idiots fail to see this.

I only hope that justice prevails for the 49 identified and if they are guilty they are suitably charged and if innocent suitably acquitted.

If proved to be Rangers fans, then, I will agree, and also feel embarrassed personally, however, I find so many aspects of the events questionable, that I will wait to see what happens, and give Bears the benefit of the doubt and not persecute them until then. It seems to be a far bigger deal in Scotland than in England, and, we know how the media up there feel about us, so, it comes as no surprise eh?

What is your definition of a Rangers fan?

Whether these thugs are Rangers fans or not they have undoubtedly brought shame on our club.

You find so many of the events questionable?

What is questionable about video evidence that clearly shows thugs rioting, overturning cars, attacking an individual policeman with many wearing Rangers colours?

Whatever else went on there is absolutely no justification for some of the scenes witnessed.

I am a big critic of the celtc minded mhedia up here but when drunken thigs behave in this manner when associating themselves with Rangers then it is the thugs whpo are to blame not the mhedia.

[Tontospal 1,116]

I would imagine that the reason it took so long is due to GMP having to go through thousands of hours of CCTV footage in order to identify thugs who were captured taking part in criminal acts throughout the day and get the best possible photos from anytime throughout the day.

It amazes me how anyone cannot accept that serious criminal acts took place on that day.

The footage is horrendous and, going by the various images/footage, there are a lot of guilty thugs who have got away with criminal acts.

There was a lot more than 49 involved.

I am not saying for a minute that there wasn't innocent Rangers fans and members of the public caught up in the melee or even attacked by the GMP, and if images are available showing this then suitable action should be taken against GMP.

The attacks on the policeman by a baying mob are disgusting and every single person who chased that policeman and attacked him whilst on the ground should be jailed for a long time, Rangers fan or not.

These thugs have bought shame and disgrace on our club yet some idiots fail to see this.

I only hope that justice prevails for the 49 identified and if they are guilty they are suitably charged and if innocent suitably acquitted.

If proved to be Rangers fans, then, I will agree, and also feel embarrassed personally, however, I find so many aspects of the events questionable, that I will wait to see what happens, and give Bears the benefit of the doubt and not persecute them until then. It seems to be a far bigger deal in Scotland than in England, and, we know how the media up there feel about us, so, it comes as no surprise eh?

I can see what you're saying. I don't think the blame should be aimed towards all of our fans. There were failings on behalf of the GMC and the GMP which should be addressed.

The GMC were negligent and never took any warnings on board about how many people would be travelling and therefore were unprepared when all the fans came to Manchester.

The GMP were seen to be heavy-handed and there are clips showing this. I don't want to judge because if I were in that position, I can't say I wouldn't be heavy-handed either.

However, there is without a doubt, some Rangers fans, amongst those who got involved in the violence, looting, vandalism etc.

For anyone to just disregard what these people done simply because some innocents were no doubt hurt is terrible.

I know for a fact, in a hypothetical situation, had say, 1000 fans for definite commit violent crimes and police reacted heavily-handed, these actions would still be disregarded by some on this board simply because the police reacted the way they did.

Hmmm, to continue this, thats probably true, however, as well, what has to be considered is this, and, it doesnt seem to have been mentioned yet,

Scenario -

The non Rangers element looking for trouble, create some (they have the perfect cover dont they?)

GMP react, and, will target whom? They get reports of "trouble breaking out", the will target US

Bears attacked for no apparent reason, fight back.

In THAT situation, I feel that its very unfair to label bears a shame to the club.

Of course, that may not have been the situation, as, we dont know all the details yet, but, I have gigged in Manchester many many times, and, the police over there, as well as a lot of locals, are aresholes, so the above scenario is very likely. I wouldnt play again if it didnt pay so well haha

Do you condone the actions of those individuals witnessed trying to overturn a car or attacking a policeman on the ground who had fallen over after being struck with a missile?

The police should be held to account for any incidents where they have overreacted or attacked innocent people but from all I have seen they were trying to uphold law and order against baying mobs.

I am amazed that anyone would try and support or justify drunken thugs causing mayhem on the streets of a major British city.

[BRICKY1872 118]

Think this one is wide of the mark I'm afraid. It was the GMP and Crimewatch who have decided to take this action now with the Scottish media jumping on it predictably. Nobody is telling me that anyone at GMP or Crimewatch even had a clue we were even playing last night let alone in a semi.

[outlaw69uk 123]

Hmmm, to continue this, thats probably true, however, as well, what has to be considered is this, and, it doesnt seem to have been mentioned yet,

Scenario -

The non Rangers element looking for trouble, create some (they have the perfect cover dont they?)

GMP react, and, will target whom? They get reports of "trouble breaking out", the will target US

Bears attacked for no apparent reason, fight back.

In THAT situation, I feel that its very unfair to label bears a shame to the club.

Of course, that may not have been the situation, as, we dont know all the details yet, but, I have gigged in Manchester many many times, and, the police over there, as well as a lot of locals, are aresholes, so the above scenario is very likely. I wouldnt play again if it didnt pay so well haha

Do you condone the actions of those individuals witnessed trying to overturn a car or attacking a policeman on the ground who had fallen over after being struck with a missile? - Did I say I didnt? I questioned whether these were Rangers fans, or others using the cover of a Rangers crowd for their own agenda

The police should be held to account for any incidents where they have overreacted or attacked innocent people but from all I have seen they were trying to uphold law and order against baying mobs.

I am amazed that anyone would try and support or justify drunken thugs causing mayhem on the streets of a major British city. - is anyone? as I said, I question whether these were Rangers fans, as have many others

[Tontospal 1,116]

Hmmm, to continue this, thats probably true, however, as well, what has to be considered is this, and, it doesnt seem to have been mentioned yet,

Scenario -

The non Rangers element looking for trouble, create some (they have the perfect cover dont they?)

GMP react, and, will target whom? They get reports of "trouble breaking out", the will target US

Bears attacked for no apparent reason, fight back.

In THAT situation, I feel that its very unfair to label bears a shame to the club.

Of course, that may not have been the situation, as, we dont know all the details yet, but, I have gigged in Manchester many many times, and, the police over there, as well as a lot of locals, are aresholes, so the above scenario is very likely. I wouldnt play again if it didnt pay so well haha

Do you condone the actions of those individuals witnessed trying to overturn a car or attacking a policeman on the ground who had fallen over after being struck with a missile? - Did I say I didnt? I questioned whether these were Rangers fans, or others using the cover of a Rangers crowd for their own agenda

The police should be held to account for any incidents where they have overreacted or attacked innocent people but from all I have seen they were trying to uphold law and order against baying mobs.

I am amazed that anyone would try and support or justify drunken thugs causing mayhem on the streets of a major British city. - is anyone? as I said, I question whether these were Rangers fans, as have many others

Everyone keeps boasting how we took 150,000 fans to Manchester yet some are questioning whether the 49 wanted by GMP, some wearing our colours, are Rangers fans.

So how many of the 150,000 were Rangers fans and how would you describe the others?

You can't have it both ways.

[outlaw69uk 123]

If proved to be Rangers fans, then, I will agree, and also feel embarrassed personally, however, I find so many aspects of the events questionable, that I will wait to see what happens, and give Bears the benefit of the doubt and not persecute them until then. It seems to be a far bigger deal in Scotland than in England, and, we know how the media up there feel about us, so, it comes as no surprise eh?

What is your definition of a Rangers fan? - "supporter of Rangers FC"

Whether these thugs are Rangers fans or not they have undoubtedly brought shame on our club. - I disagree, if they are not Rangers fans, then, there is no link to the club apart from it happened at that event. We would be cleared.

You find so many of the events questionable? - aspects of them. Much of it is hearsay

What is questionable about video evidence that clearly shows thugs rioting, overturning cars, attacking an individual policeman with many wearing Rangers colours? - Seriously? I said elsewhere, anyone can walk into JJB in England, ad buy a Rangers top for £15. What better way to fit in to a crowd? I am not saying it DEFINATLY wasnt Bears, we just dont know if it was for certain yet either, why judge so quickly?

Whatever else went on there is absolutely no justification for some of the scenes witnessed. - agreed

I am a big critic of the celtc minded mhedia up here but when drunken thigs behave in this manner when associating themselves with Rangers then it is the thugs whpo are to blame not the mhedia.

We need to compress these 2 into one haha

[outlaw69uk 123]

Hmmm, to continue this, thats probably true, however, as well, what has to be considered is this, and, it doesnt seem to have been mentioned yet,

Scenario -

The non Rangers element looking for trouble, create some (they have the perfect cover dont they?)

GMP react, and, will target whom? They get reports of "trouble breaking out", the will target US

Bears attacked for no apparent reason, fight back.

In THAT situation, I feel that its very unfair to label bears a shame to the club.

Of course, that may not have been the situation, as, we dont know all the details yet, but, I have gigged in Manchester many many times, and, the police over there, as well as a lot of locals, are aresholes, so the above scenario is very likely. I wouldnt play again if it didnt pay so well haha

Do you condone the actions of those individuals witnessed trying to overturn a car or attacking a policeman on the ground who had fallen over after being struck with a missile? - Did I say I didnt? I questioned whether these were Rangers fans, or others using the cover of a Rangers crowd for their own agenda

The police should be held to account for any incidents where they have overreacted or attacked innocent people but from all I have seen they were trying to uphold law and order against baying mobs.

I am amazed that anyone would try and support or justify drunken thugs causing mayhem on the streets of a major British city. - is anyone? as I said, I question whether these were Rangers fans, as have many others

Everyone keeps boasting how we took 150,000 fans to Manchester yet some are questioning whether the 49 wanted by GMP, some wearing our colours, are Rangers fans.

So how many of the 150,000 were Rangers fans and how would you describe the others?

You can't have it both ways.

Ok, why is that wrong? or do you blindly believe what you are told? Thats not a dig, but, what you are doing, is putting 2 and 2 together, and taking the easy answer, regardless of proof, or whether it is correct or not. They may well have been Rangers fans, but, given the police havent said they were, and, only Rangers fans on messageboard, scottish press, and tims have said that. I will wait for some more evidence first.

Remember, there was another team playing too, why couldnt it have been their fans? Mancs like a fight, they live there. You are just assuming it was Rangers fans, why?

[Tontospal 1,116]

yet some are questioning whether the 49 wanted by GMP, some wearing our colours, are Rangers fans.

So how many of the 150,000 were Rangers fans and how would you describe the others?

You can't have it both ways.

Ok, why is that wrong? or do you blindly believe what you are told? Thats not a dig, but, what you are doing, is putting 2 and 2 together, and taking the easy answer, regardless of proof, or whether it is correct or not. They may well have been Rangers fans, but, given the police havent said they were, and, only Rangers fans on messageboard, scottish press, and tims have said that. I will wait for some more evidence first.

Remember, there was another team playing too, why couldnt it have been their fans? Mancs like a fight, they live there. You are just assuming it was Rangers fans, why?

No disrespect but your responses get more and more naive as the thread goes along.

In the eyes of the world they are Rangers fans and most people would come to this reasonable conclusion based on the facts and available evidence.

I think if you read my posts you will find that where I have put 2 and 2 together it is justified.

Do you honestly believe that Mancs, Cockneys, Scousers or whoever would buy Rangers shirts and colours to merge in a riot? If they are traditional hooligans as such then they don't even where their own colours so they wouldn't be seen dead in ours.

As for 'firms' from other teams being in town. I doubt this very much for the sole reason that I have not heard of any 'firms' fighting with each other and that would undoubtedly have been the case had they turned up in numbers.

I would put money on it that the majority of the 49 and the other hundreds who have evaded the GMP are Scottish, 'Rangers' fans. They may not have season tickets or go to games but if you asked them what team they supported I'm pretty sure that the answer would be Rangers.

I can understand you sticking up for Rangers. We've all done that but there comes a time when some things just cannot be defended.

If it is proven that these thugs are not Rangers fans I'll apologise and buy you a pint but I'm afraid that's not the case.

I hope it is shown in court that these thugs are English and have no connection to Rangers but I sincerely doubt that this will be the case.

What will be interesting is what evidence they have against the 49. If any of them are found guilty of attacking the policeman then I would imagine that they will be facing a lengthy prison sentence.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

Hmmm, to continue this, thats probably true, however, as well, what has to be considered is this, and, it doesnt seem to have been mentioned yet,

Scenario -

The non Rangers element looking for trouble, create some (they have the perfect cover dont they?)

GMP react, and, will target whom? They get reports of "trouble breaking out", the will target US

Bears attacked for no apparent reason, fight back.

In THAT situation, I feel that its very unfair to label bears a shame to the club.

Of course, that may not have been the situation, as, we dont know all the details yet, but, I have gigged in Manchester many many times, and, the police over there, as well as a lot of locals, are aresholes, so the above scenario is very likely. I wouldnt play again if it didnt pay so well haha

Do you condone the actions of those individuals witnessed trying to overturn a car or attacking a policeman on the ground who had fallen over after being struck with a missile? - Did I say I didnt? I questioned whether these were Rangers fans, or others using the cover of a Rangers crowd for their own agenda

The police should be held to account for any incidents where they have overreacted or attacked innocent people but from all I have seen they were trying to uphold law and order against baying mobs.

I am amazed that anyone would try and support or justify drunken thugs causing mayhem on the streets of a major British city. - is anyone? as I said, I question whether these were Rangers fans, as have many others

Everyone keeps boasting how we took 150,000 fans to Manchester yet some are questioning whether the 49 wanted by GMP, some wearing our colours, are Rangers fans.

So how many of the 150,000 were Rangers fans and how would you describe the others?

You can't have it both ways.

Since the few that caused trouble are an insignificant part of the 200,000 I don't see your point

[Tontospal 1,116]

[

Everyone keeps boasting how we took 150,000 fans to Manchester yet some are questioning whether the 49 wanted by GMP, some wearing our colours, are Rangers fans.

So how many of the 150,000 were Rangers fans and how would you describe the others?

You can't have it both ways.

Since the few that caused trouble are an insignificant part of the 200,000 I don't see your point

The point is that we celebrate the fact that we took 150 or 200,000 to Manchester but disown the ones who casued trouble. If they are to be excluded, how many others also fall in to the category of not being Rangers fans?

I agree that a small number caused the trouble but they certainly weren't insignificant, particularly given the bad press that we continue to get 8 months later.