Money C Whyte invested in Rangers

[Gregor Stevens Fan Club 42]

The ticketus money was NOT a loan. They bought and own our season tickets for the next 4 years. So Ticketus are ok unless we are liquidated.

If we are not liquidated RFC need that money to survive. What has happened to it? If it was used to pay off Lloyds then in my mind it is fraud as then the season ticket holders bought RFC and not CW. CW claims this money was not used to pay off Lloyds so let us see what the administrators say later this week. If CW paid off Lloyds with it then Ticketus gets our income from season tickets for the next 4 years - and our income is insufficient for us to survive even though there must be 6m or so remaining.

Looks a mess to me, but will wait to hear more. If CW used his own money to pay off Lloyds then is the 24.4m still in a parent account of RFC ready to be handed over to the administrators?

Regardless of the big tax case, we are looking at being seriously shafted if the Ticketus scenario is true.

[sergio 1,199]

Beats me! That's why I am asking the question - is this possible?

I don't think that is possible, but I don't think there was anything stopping him raising the money from another source to buy the club then pay it back - How?

Craig Whyte has stated that - He placed 33 Million of his own money in a holding account to prove he had the funds to buy the club, way before the Ticketus deal was done,

but what is to stop him borrowing 33 from another source (if you borrow a grand from a bank, when they give you it, you can call it your money)

During Due Diligence he would have known about the previous boards dealings with Ticketus, he asks them if he can keep the arrangement going and they obviously agree.

Now, when May comes around he gets the 20 Million combined with the Season Ticket Money and uses that to pay of the source of the 33 Million.

He would then be praying for a European run to generate funds to keep the club afloat, which we did not get, so he starts to stop paying the bills and uses the Vat Nat insurance money to run the club.

(scary to think that the Taxman makes a Million a Month from Rangers, no wonder they don't want us to go out of business)

A possible theory? (I am not claiming this is what actually happened) feel free to shoot it to bits ...

[A.T.G 10,773]

The ticketus money may not be a loan but they certainly gave CW £24.4m and require repayments

So basically we dont owe them £24m and this will be nowhere on the accounts??

All very confusing to be honest

[mabawsa 888]

Letters of comfort/intent, funds held in escrow at solicitors account, needs both parties signatures once all conditions have been met, lawers could honestly state funds were available unless they were specifically asked if funds were free and clear of any encumbrance.

Correct. A bit like buying a house on the day you move. The funds reside with lawyers in their accounts and only transfer when all parties are aligned. I think Ticketus have seen this as a win-win for themselves. Whyte approaches them via his lawyers. They do a conditional deal that says they get x amount of Rangers season tickets for the next 4 years if they back the deal to the tune of X millions. If Whyte fails in his takeover of Rangers , the monies are returned to Ticketus with say a small interest charge. So the monies would never been with Whyte until the Rangers takeover was signed and sealed , thereby his lawyers would transfer the £24M to whatever account he choose. The Independent board who where scrutinising Whtye's bid did say they had no evidence at that time for Whyte having the funds. That could be due to the fact he was still trying to setup this conditional deal with Ticketus and get the monies into his lawyers account. Then at that point the lawyers could've released prooof the funds where in place and SDM/Lloyds would be satisfied. The only other thing is whether SDM knew about this Ticketus route also before signing us over. If he did them its not a one man scam anymore as it using OUR future monies to fund a transaction between supposedly two wealthy persons. The fans money should never have been in the equation without our approval. That would take the biscuit if they have used us for that.

[sergio 1,199]

Correct. A bit like buying a house on the day you move. The funds reside with lawyers in their accounts and only transfer when all parties are aligned. I think Ticketus have seen this as a win-win for themselves. Whyte approaches them via his lawyers. They do a conditional deal that says they get x amount of Rangers season tickets for the next 4 years if they back the deal to the tune of X millions. If Whyte fails in his takeover of Rangers , the monies are returned to Ticketus with say a small interest charge. So the monies would never been with Whyte until the Rangers takeover was signed and sealed , thereby his lawyers would transfer the £24M to whatever account he choose. The Independent board who where scrutinising Whtye's bid did say they had no evidence at that time for Whyte having the funds. That could be due to the fact he was still trying to setup this conditional deal with Ticketus and get the monies into his lawyers account. Then at that point the lawyers could've released prooof the funds where in place and SDM/Lloyds would be satisfied. The only other thing is whether SDM knew about this Ticketus route also before signing us over. If he did them its not a one man scam anymore as it using OUR future monies to fund a transaction between supposedly two wealthy persons. The fans money should never have been in the equation without our approval. That would take the biscuit if they have used us for that.

So are the fans the preferred creditor now

[DiscoDavie 5]

I'll tell you something, if he pulls this off there will be a lot of other "perilous" Clubs chapping CW's door for his blueprint.

[tartansmokie 36]

murray/the bank would have sold to anybody as long as the were willing to take on the tax bill

Allegedly, and I am only going by the report in the Glasgow Herald when thiey first reported the takeover, Murray wanted to transfer the debt over fron Rangers football club, to his holding company (Murray International Holdings) but the bank said no as his holding company was already top heavy with debt. They then heard of Whytes offer to pay the £18m debt off so put pressure on Murray to sell.

Dont know how true this is as, like I said, it is only a report in the Glasgow Herald

[marmalade1872 40]

motherwell billionaire my fuckin arse; even his own ex wife had to chase him for two years to get some dosh for her and the weans

[Ibroxblue 122]

The ticketus money was NOT a loan. They bought and own our season tickets for the next 4 years. So Ticketus are ok unless we are liquidated.

If we are not liquidated RFC need that money to survive. What has happened to it? If it was used to pay off Lloyds then in my mind it is fraud as then the season ticket holders bought RFC and not CW. CW claims this money was not used to pay off Lloyds so let us see what the administrators say later this week. If CW paid off Lloyds with it then Ticketus gets our income from season tickets for the next 4 years - and our income is insufficient for us to survive even though there must be 6m or so remaining.

Looks a mess to me, but will wait to hear more. If CW used his own money to pay off Lloyds then is the 24.4m still in a parent account of RFC ready to be handed over to the administrators?

Not all of them, just so we're clear.

[Getstiffed 8,863]

motherwell billionaire my fuckin arse; even his own ex wife had to chase him for two years to get some dosh for her and the weans

Who's castle are we camped outside of then?!

[Agoram1 42]

If that was 'borrowed' against our season tickets, is that not a case of hiding assents from the administrators ? And that us illegal.

My understanding of it is, it wasn't 'borrowed' against future sales, the tickets where sold to them, meaning they get tickets at a reduced price and will sell to u's, the fan, for full price. I think they get the 1st 15% of season ticket sales.

That was my understanding of it anyway. Could be wrong tho!

[jonbryce 63]

Why would Ticketus give someone with no Rangers connection, money for Rangers tickets?

Basically in the same way that you can get money secured on a house that you don't own in order to buy the house. There is a protocol that the solicitors follow to make sure that the money is transferred, and the security (or in this case a few boxes of season tickets) obtained at the same time; and if the deal falls through, the money gets returned to the lender (or in this case the ticket purchaser).

[Ledge 3]

The ticketus money was NOT a loan. They bought and own our season tickets for the next 4 years. So Ticketus are ok unless we are liquidated.

If we are not liquidated RFC need that money to survive. What has happened to it? If it was used to pay off Lloyds then in my mind it is fraud as then the season ticket holders bought RFC and not CW. CW claims this money was not used to pay off Lloyds so let us see what the administrators say later this week. If CW paid off Lloyds with it then Ticketus gets our income from season tickets for the next 4 years - and our income is insufficient for us to survive even though there must be 6m or so remaining.

Looks a mess to me, but will wait to hear more. If CW used his own money to pay off Lloyds then is the 24.4m still in a parent account of RFC ready to be handed over to the administrators?

Was it not only a portion of the season ticket money? 4 years of season tickets would be like £68m in total, would it not? I make it approximately one third of the total that has been loaned from ticketus.

[southcoastbear 1,639]

according to whyte he tried to pay THIS YEARS CURRENT tax bill only for HMRC to tell him to shove it unless he settled the old tax bill found during the takeover

fuck knows anymore, i still dont know how he'd have managed to give Lloyds their money from ticketus without actually having the tickets in the first place

plus, again just what did whyte guarantee to ticketus, surely its fuck all of rangers as he wasnt in control when the deal was done, so there must be a guarantee somewhere, is his castle worth 24mill who knows

I think the story goes he was diputing this years tax bill and offered to pay approximately half the bill which HMRC said they wanted the bill settling in full.

[southcoastbear 1,639]

Correct. A bit like buying a house on the day you move. The funds reside with lawyers in their accounts and only transfer when all parties are aligned. I think Ticketus have seen this as a win-win for themselves. Whyte approaches them via his lawyers. They do a conditional deal that says they get x amount of Rangers season tickets for the next 4 years if they back the deal to the tune of X millions. If Whyte fails in his takeover of Rangers , the monies are returned to Ticketus with say a small interest charge. So the monies would never been with Whyte until the Rangers takeover was signed and sealed , thereby his lawyers would transfer the £24M to whatever account he choose. The Independent board who where scrutinising Whtye's bid did say they had no evidence at that time for Whyte having the funds. That could be due to the fact he was still trying to setup this conditional deal with Ticketus and get the monies into his lawyers account. Then at that point the lawyers could've released prooof the funds where in place and SDM/Lloyds would be satisfied. The only other thing is whether SDM knew about this Ticketus route also before signing us over. If he did them its not a one man scam anymore as it using OUR future monies to fund a transaction between supposedly two wealthy persons. The fans money should never have been in the equation without our approval. That would take the biscuit if they have used us for that.

Sounds plausible to me Whether it is right or not guess only time will tell

[gary2006 123]

The ticketus money was NOT a loan. They bought and own our season tickets for the next 4 years. So Ticketus are ok unless we are liquidated.

If we are not liquidated RFC need that money to survive. What has happened to it? If it was used to pay off Lloyds then in my mind it is fraud as then the season ticket holders bought RFC and not CW. CW claims this money was not used to pay off Lloyds so let us see what the administrators say later this week. If CW paid off Lloyds with it then Ticketus gets our income from season tickets for the next 4 years - and our income is insufficient for us to survive even though there must be 6m or so remaining.

Looks a mess to me, but will wait to hear more. If CW used his own money to pay off Lloyds then is the 24.4m still in a parent account of RFC ready to be handed over to the administrators?

will we hear the whole truth? the administrators know whyte and are on record as having worked with him several times in the past so can they be trusted they seem to be enjoying the limelight a bit to much if you ask me

[weeblu 0]

will we hear the whole truth? the administrators know whyte and are on record as having worked with him several times in the past so can they be trusted they seem to be enjoying the limelight a bit to much if you ask me

Have they worked with him before for certain? as the statement I heard them read out stated that they had NOT worked on behalf of Craig Whyte previously.

I don't know if it's wishfull thinking or not but I am hoping that he has the money holed up in another account to use once we come out of administration. My thinking behind this is.

I think he thought he could have struck a deal with HMRC (pay half of what is reportedly owed 24.4m or there abouts) by threatening to put us into admin.This deal would have been payed by the money from ticketus.(this spreading the hit over the 4 years) HMRC retaliated with a curve ball saying,see that 9m you owe us for the PAYE that we said you could pay in a couple of months,we want it now ( probably knowing full well craig would have cleared out the accounts of as much money as possible just incase his gamble didnt pay off,so he couldnt just say ok heres the 9m now fuck off) So in turn went to the court with a letter stating we owed 9m but had just lodged an intension of admin so there's a good chance we might not get it so we want to appoint administrators of our own so we can secure the 9m for the government purse which was granted by the courts unless we appointed our own administrators hence where we find ourselfs today.

[gunslinger 270]

He gave it consideration, then fucked off.

So why did AJ and the rest see this and Murray didn't.

Murray did and muir told him to do what he was told.

[Colonel Mustard 380]

Basically in the same way that you can get money secured on a house that you don't own in order to buy the house. There is a protocol that the solicitors follow to make sure that the money is transferred, and the security (or in this case a few boxes of season tickets) obtained at the same time; and if the deal falls through, the money gets returned to the lender (or in this case the ticket purchaser).

Shut the fuck up.

If I try to get money to buy a house, there is now way that the money shows in my account before a transaction is done.

The bank pays the loan straight to the person I was buying the house from, then the bank starts asking me for payments for the loan.

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

He gave it consideration, then fucked off.

So why did AJ and the rest see this and Murray didn't.

And why is AJ and the rest not getting stuck into to Murray for this. After all this cunt said he wouldn't sell it to anyone. It had to be someone that could take us forward.

So they should be getting stuck into Murray aswell.

[gunslinger 270]

Shut the fuck up.

If I try to get money to buy a house, there is now way that the money shows in my account before a transaction is done.

The bank pays the loan straight to the person I was buying the house from, then the bank starts asking me for payments for the loan.

actually they pay your solicitor much like ticketus paid whytes solicitor.

[gunslinger 270]

And why is AJ and the rest not getting stuck into to Murray for this. After all this cunt said he wouldn't sell it to anyone. It had to be someone that could take us forward.

So they should be getting stuck into Murray aswell.

they have.

[Thermopylae 15,286]

I'll tell you something, if he pulls this off there will be a lot of other "perilous" Clubs chapping CW's door for his blueprint.

That's a very good point he would become the Red Adair of football finance

[jonbryce 63]

Shut the fuck up.

If I try to get money to buy a house, there is now way that the money shows in my account before a transaction is done.

The bank pays the loan straight to the person I was buying the house from, then the bank starts asking me for payments for the loan.

It shows in your solicitor's client account, with your solicitor acting for the bank as well as for you. From there, it goes to the seller's solicitor's client account, and then to pay off their mortgage, buy another house, or to their own bank account as appropriate.