Ched Evans

[Creampuff 22,628]

Any club that is happy to sign him should be free to do so without the public outcry.

[JamieD 18,989]

Any club that is happy to sign him should be free to do so without the public outcry.

On the contrary, they should be free to do so WITH the public outcry.

Who said that when a person has "served his time" (he hasn't, he's on license), people have to stop having opinions, or lose the right to express them?

[plymouthranger 3,887]

Done his time, not saying he should be immune from criticism...

But it's like saying if you get caught drunk driving, you should never be allowed to drive again, even after having served your punishment.

[JamieD 18,989]

Done his time, not saying he should be immune from criticism...

But it's like saying if you get caught drunk driving, you should never be allowed to drive again, even after having served your punishment.

If you refused to accept you did anything wrong then you SHOULDN'T be allowed to drive again. It's lunacy to allow an unrepentant drink driver back behind a wheel. That's why they have educational courses.

[GOAT 30,449]

I've actually just read up on his case after reading this thread, I thought he physically forced a burd into sex, all he did was pump a drunk burd how is that rape?

I used to have a burd a few years back that would phone me fridays or saturdays and come round and i'd pump her, whether i was sober or pished, sometimes midweek nights if she was at gigs, how the fuck is that rape?

My missus thinks shes a porn star drunk, so am I raping her when she comes in steaming and I'm sober? Fuck off, that's a disgrace he was done for that, my opinion of him has completely changed now.

[kaiser1041 9,088]

I've actually just read up on his case after reading this thread, I thought he physically forced a burd into sex, all he did was pump a drunk burd how is that rape?

I used to have a burd a few years back that would phone me fridays or saturdays and come round and i'd pump her, whether i was sober or pished, sometimes midweek nights if she was at gigs, how the fuck is that rape?

My missus thinks shes a porn star drunk, so am I raping her when she comes in steaming and I'm sober? Fuck off, that's a disgrace he was done for that, my opinion of him has completely changed now.

spot on I think a lot of guys out there don't really know about the case.hopefully he can force his way into that Oldham team

[folkestoneger 8,165]

a Yes

b No. A shameful conviction using a disgraceful law solely designed to convict men who do not carry a breathalyser to test the women they meet in a nightclub,made even worse by the constant hounding of the guy after his release.

Why is it just the man who has the responsibility?

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,772]

There is drunk and there is too drunk to consent.

[folkestoneger 8,165]

There is drunk and there is too drunk to consent.

Where was the proof she did not know she had consented?

I have been far drunker than the female in those ccty pics looked on many an occasion and I am sure many others will say the same.

Do you forsee a woman ever being convicted using this law when a bloke is drunk? Not a chance.

[GOAT 30,449]

There is drunk and there is too drunk to consent.

Bullshit.

If the lassies that drunk shes falling asleep then aye, it's rape, if the lassies tanned a litre of vodka and just turned into a slapper, then naw it's no rape, she just a cock hungry drunk.

[JamieD 18,989]

Clayton McDonald actually told the hotel porter to keep an eye on the girl when he left the hotel because she was so out of it.

A strangely underreported aspect of the case.

[Gers1690 194]

I believe he was innocent... the fact is, telling the truth to the police by admitting he slept with the complainant caused him to get arrested and put on trial for rape. If he lied and said he didn't sleep with her then there would have been no trial in the first place.

She saw pound signs when she found out it was footballers who she was with.

It's disgusted that getting drunk and regretting who you sleep with can equal rape.

[JamieD 18,989]

I believe he was innocent... the fact is, telling the truth to the police by admitting he slept with the complainant caused him to get arrested and put on trial for rape. If he lied and said he didn't sleep with her then there would have been no trial in the first place.

She saw pound signs when she found out it was footballers who she was with.

It's disgusted that getting drunk and regretting who you sleep with can equal rape.

So which of these two contradictory statements is it actually?

[martin93 136]

spot on I think a lot of guys out there don't really know about the case.hopefully he can force his way into that Oldham team

what a hypocrite, you don't exactly know everything about the case yourself as you weren't privvy to all the evidence etc in court

[martin93 136]

Some of the comments in this thread are a disgrace and so is the o.p asking if people think he was guilty- he IS guilty

Fuck him he's a dirty beast

[JamieD 18,989]

what a hypocrite, you don't exactly know everything about the case yourself as you weren't privvy to all the evidence etc in court

Indeed. It's funny that the people saying "he's served his time" think THAT aspect of the system works, but reject the fact that a jury heard all the evidence and concluded differently to them.

[martin93 136]

Indeed. It's funny that the people saying "he's served his time" think THAT aspect of the system works, but reject the fact that a jury heard all the evidence and concluded differently to them.

Exactly, disgusting and people are showing themselves up

[bettyblue 97]

Conviction rates for rape are so low, something like ten percent so the jury must have heard evidence that was pretty convincing. Attitudes like the ones on this forum are what the jimmy savilles of the world appreciate otherwise it wouldn't be possible to do what they do

[left winger 14,276]

Conviction rates for rape are so low, something like ten percent so the jury must have heard evidence that was pretty convincing. Attitudes like the ones on this forum are what the jimmy savilles of the world appreciate otherwise it wouldn't be possible to do what they do

Apparently, 60% of those cases that go to court result in a conviction.

[GOAT 30,449]

Conviction rates for rape are so low, something like ten percent so the jury must have heard evidence that was pretty convincing. Attitudes like the ones on this forum are what the jimmy savilles of the world appreciate otherwise it wouldn't be possible to do what they do

Attitudes like what? A lassie gets pished and gets pumped. Jog fucking on, clatty cows.

[CaptainDandy 834]

I've actually just read up on his case after reading this thread, I thought he physically forced a burd into sex, all he did was pump a drunk burd how is that rape?

I used to have a burd a few years back that would phone me fridays or saturdays and come round and i'd pump her, whether i was sober or pished, sometimes midweek nights if she was at gigs, how the fuck is that rape?

My missus thinks shes a porn star drunk, so am I raping her when she comes in steaming and I'm sober? Fuck off, that's a disgrace he was done for that, my opinion of him has completely changed now.

Exactly what I said when I read about it Goat, majority of guys have probably taken a burd home from a nightclub or pub when they've been pished, is that rape as well?

[JamieD 18,989]

Exactly what I said when I read about it Goat, majority of guys have probably taken a burd home from a nightclub or pub when they've been pished, is that rape as well?

No. Which is why Clayton McDonald walked free.

Ched Evans didn't take her home, he turned up uninvited with mates who started filming outside the window, lied his way into the room to have a crack at a girl his mate then told the hotel porter to look after because she was hammered, and crept back out down the fire escape. (These are uncontested facts). Ever done that?

[Spectre 1,663]

No. Which is why Clayton McDonald walked free.

Ched Evans didn't take her home, he turned up uninvited with mates who started filming outside the window, lied his way into the room to have a crack at a girl his mate then told the hotel porter to look after because she was hammered, and crept back out down the fire escape. (These are uncontested facts). Ever done that?

Not overly keen on having another Ched Evans discussion but none of what you posted has any real relevance to the question of consent. Ched is guilty of rape because he had sex with a girl that was deemed to be too drunk to consent on the basis of cctv evidence of her arriving at the hotel. If she's too drunk to consent it's irrelevant that she went to the hotel willingly with Clayton. Morally and in terms of creepy bastardness there's a clear distinction but the facts are they've both and sex with a woman that was deemed too drunk to consent with one of them prior to even entering the hotel room. There's a bit of a logical issue there and the differences between the two men don't seem to be relevant to the question of consent unless we believe she was perfectly capable of consenting whilst having sex with Clayton (which she has no memory of) and remained capable of consenting throughout that "session" but was then incapable ten minutes later. Which would be possible but again the evidence that she was incapable of consenting comes from footage and a witness speaking to her condition prior to any sexualities activity with either man. You can see from the judgement transcript that, it appears at least, the court was expecting the verdicts for both men to be the same.

On the subject of a jury though if I was ever accused of any crime I wouldn't feel particularly confident that a handful of Glaswegians would come to the right conclusion, I guess we always have the appeal courts though.

[JamieD 18,989]

Not overly keen on having another Ched Evans discussion but none of what you posted has any real relevance to the question of consent. Ched is guilty of rape because he had sex with a girl that was deemed to be too drunk to consent on the basis of cctv evidence of her arriving at the hotel. If she's too drunk to consent it's irrelevant that she went to the hotel willingly with Clayton. Morally and in terms of creepy bastardness there's a clear distinction but the facts are they've both and sex with a woman that was deemed too drunk to consent with one of them prior to even entering the hotel room. There's a bit of a logical issue there and the differences between the two men don't seem to be relevant to the question of consent unless we believe she was perfectly capable of consenting whilst having sex with Clayton (which she has no memory of) and remained capable of consenting throughout that "session" but was then incapable ten minutes later. Which would be possible but again the evidence that she was incapable of consenting comes from footage and a witness speaking to her condition prior to any sexualities activity with either man. You can see from the judgement transcript that, it appears at least, the court was expecting the verdicts for both men to be the same.

On the subject of a jury though if I was ever accused of any crime I wouldn't feel particularly confident that a handful of Glaswegians would come to the right conclusion, I guess we always have the appeal courts though.

To be found guilty the jury have to be convinced both that the victim was incapable of consent and that the accused could not reasonably have believed there was consent. I gather that the jury believed there was some room for doubt in the case of McDonald, since the girl went back to the hotel with him. Evans, who found the girl naked and drunk to the point where McDonald thought she needed to be looked after, and had spent no time with her, could not reasonably have believed this unless he simply rejects the notion that a person can be too drunk to consent, which is not his decision.

[Frank Reynolds 3,359]

To be found guilty the jury have to be convinced both that the victim was incapable of consent and that the accused could not reasonably have believed there was consent. I gather that the jury believed there was some room for doubt in the case of McDonald, since the girl went back to the hotel with him. Evans, who found the girl naked and drunk to the point where McDonald thought she needed to be looked after, and had spent no time with her, could not reasonably have believed this unless he simply rejects the notion that a person can be too drunk to consent, which is not his decision.