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Turnberry18    2,419
2 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

That's fair enough. Don't see anyone really saying he's absolutely the real deal and the ideal manager.

But he's here now so the retrospective stuff is futile.

Some argue spend 3 million or so to pay him off, bring in someone else none of whom appear phenomenal appointments, and then it'll all be fine. Despite us having no budget to improve the playing squad.

I'm saying he's been naive at times and wrong at times but that I reckon a lot of stuff going on in the background is necessary but impacting on players buying into him and to performances. 

He's alienating and dropping those he wants out for kids, and it seems a far from happy camp as a result. But he's right to do it even if it costs us points now if it gets rid of contracted shite like MOH, Forrester, Halliday, Kiernan.

So I'm giving him a break now and backing him getting to bring in his own players. If a few can be as positive as Alves I'll be delighted. 

 

If he signs players like that then he deserves his chance. Had he had no backing, or the same backing as the Warburton then I don't think he's the man. If we were to get Alves and maybe two others who would be automatic first choices then I think he could do well. 

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Valance1690    237
5 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

That's fair enough. Don't see anyone really saying he's absolutely the real deal and the ideal manager.

But he's here now so the retrospective stuff is futile.

Some argue spend 3 million or so to pay him off, bring in someone else none of whom appear phenomenal appointments, and then it'll all be fine. Despite us having no budget to improve the playing squad.

I'm saying he's been naive at times and wrong at times but that I reckon a lot of stuff going on in the background is necessary but impacting on players buying into him and to performances. 

He's alienating and dropping those he wants out for kids, and it seems a far from happy camp as a result. But he's right to do it even if it costs us points now if it gets rid of contracted shite like MOH, Forrester, Halliday, Kiernan.

So I'm giving him a break now and backing him getting to bring in his own players. If a few can be as positive as Alves I'll be delighted. 

 

Definitely think he's trying to alienate some of the players with longer term deals, in the hopes they'll move on in the summer..

Not a bad plan but will backfire majorly if they did their heels in and stay, we've seen what the kids can do and tbh none of lit the place up, they've done a good job when asked but we need reinforcements. 

Think Alves replaces Senderos. We'll get a replacement in for Hill

Need at least 3 in midfield for Barton/Hyndman/Toral, whether Barjonas is 1 of them i'm not sure 

Upfront is the issue, Garner is staying by the looks of it and so is Miller. Don't see Waghorn getting sold and Mckay will be offered some sort of deal. Only really leave Dodoo to get sold otherwise we can't really justify bringing in a 5th striker

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9 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

That's fair enough. Don't see anyone really saying he's absolutely the real deal and the ideal manager.

But he's here now so the retrospective stuff is futile.

Some argue spend 3 million or so to pay him off, bring in someone else none of whom appear phenomenal appointments, and then it'll all be fine. Despite us having no budget to improve the playing squad.

I'm saying he's been naive at times and wrong at times but that I reckon a lot of stuff going on in the background is necessary but impacting on players buying into him and to performances. 

He's alienating and dropping those he wants out for kids, and it seems a far from happy camp as a result. But he's right to do it even if it costs us points now if it gets rid of contracted shite like MOH, Forrester, Halliday, Kiernan.

So I'm giving him a break now and backing him getting to bring in his own players. If a few can be as positive as Alves I'll be delighted. 

 

This is spot on and something I hadn't really considered. I was critical of him at the time for bringing Barjonas on the other night as I didn't think it was the right game or atmosphere to throw a youngster into. If that is his plan it is working as Halliday punched the dug out when Barjonas was told to get stripped. 

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1 minute ago, Valance1690 said:

Definitely think he's trying to alienate some of the players with longer term deals, in the hopes they'll move on in the summer..

Not a bad plan but will backfire majorly if they did their heels in and stay, we've seen what the kids can do and tbh none of lit the place up, they've done a good job when asked but we need reinforcements. 

He doesn't want them but we can't afford to pay them to go. It's all he can do unless someone is in the market for that type of player (lol).

Don't think it'll backfire as they'll likely not be in the squad.  Yeah maybe have to pay them to play with development squad but so be it. I'd rather youths like Barjonas and Wilson swapped places. Though we still need imo 8 new signings too.

None of this us his making. I'm backing how hes going about trying to address it.

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2 minutes ago, westenclosure2008 said:

This is spot on and something I hadn't really considered. I was critical of him at the time for bringing Barjonas on the other night as I didn't think it was the right game or atmosphere to throw a youngster into. If that is his plan it is working as Halliday punched the dug out when Barjonas was told to get stripped. 

Yup. Heard that.

MOH is contracted to 2020. He has to take some sort of action to get the likes of him to prefer to be elsewhere.

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Turnberry18    2,419
1 minute ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

Yup. Heard that.

MOH is contracted to 2020. He has to take some sort of action to get the likes of him to prefer to be elsewhere.

I can't remember seeing a more unhappy group of players at this club; as you say maybe he has made it loud and clear he doesn't want them.

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Valance1690    237
Just now, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

He doesn't want them but we can't afford to pay them to go. It's all he can do unless someone is in the market for that type of player (lol).

Don't think it'll backfire as they'll likely not be in the squad.  Yeah maybe have to pay them to play with development squad but so be it. I'd rather youths like Barjonas and Wilson swapped places. Though we still need imo 8 new signings too.

None of this us his making. I'm backing how hes going about trying to address it.

Nobody wants a lower league player with no bottle and no talent....why the fuck not?

Think the issue is if we keep them in the development squad, do we really have the cash to pay them and pay their replacement? Think Pedro's budgets this season (wages especially) are dependant on who leaves.

Aye i've not got a problem with some youngsters being in the squad week in week out, blend them into the first team slowly, just think players like Beerman/Bates have been flung in at the deep end and been told to swim or sink. What he's doing with Barjonas seems right, bringing him on with 30 minutes to play, giving him experience, no one expects him to come on and change games (although he calmed that whole midfield down on Wednesday)

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johanhentze    2,016
1 hour ago, Straight-Edge-Loyal said:

Cribari was signed from Lazio if I remember correctly and he was woeful.

He was signed from Cruzeiro, where he played 5 games in the 11/12 season. He played 9 games for Napoli in the 10/11 season.. so not a lot. Apparently he was not known to the manager at the time he was brought in, which is a silly way of doing things.

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K.A.I    20,688
3 minutes ago, johanhentze said:

He was signed from Cruzeiro, where he played 5 games in the 11/12 season. He played 9 games for Napoli in the 10/11 season.. so not a lot. Apparently he was not known to the manager at the time he was brought in, which is a silly way of doing things.

Says a lot about our transfer policy under a McCoist his mates like Neil Murray recommending players, him watching YouTube clips and offering guys like Kevin Kyle 6k a week for 2 years 

lunacy 

as much as Warburtons signings were shite I did see a bit of logic in it lower league English gems and guys who's careers stalled - we just needed a lot lot more 

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johanhentze    2,016
1 minute ago, K.A.I said:

Says a lot about our transfer policy under a McCoist his mates like Neil Murray recommending players, him watching YouTube clips and offering guys like Kevin Kyle 6k a week for 2 years 

lunacy 

as much as Warburtons signings were shite I did see a bit of logic in it lower league English gems and guys who's careers stalled - we just needed a lot lot more 

Absolutely. 6k for kyle was probably the silliest of them all, really.

I can see the logic in the lower leagues transfer policy as well..those players could potentially be sold on for a bit of cash, as they are English. But then again, they are hardly covering themselves in glory after having been given such an amazing second chance.

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5 minutes ago, Valance1690 said:

Nobody wants a lower league player with no bottle and no talent....why the fuck not?

Think the issue is if we keep them in the development squad, do we really have the cash to pay them and pay their replacement? Think Pedro's budgets this season (wages especially) are dependant on who leaves.

Aye i've not got a problem with some youngsters being in the squad week in week out, blend them into the first team slowly, just think players like Beerman/Bates have been flung in at the deep end and been told to swim or sink. What he's doing with Barjonas seems right, bringing him on with 30 minutes to play, giving him experience, no one expects him to come on and change games (although he calmed that whole midfield down on Wednesday)

Largely agree.

But assuming they don't go if it's the choice of

1. Have his transfer budget restricted but keep the contracted ones like MOH in the unders and try to show them they've no future or

2. Have his transfer budget restricted and have them in his squad at the expense of some promising kids, even though they're unreliable duds, which encourages them to stay longer

I'll go with 1.

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WWTC    795
1 hour ago, Valance1690 said:

Not ignoring nothing...not saying this guy is a bad signing btw or a waste of wages....just not as buzzing as the rest seem to be!

Guessing he'll be on the higher wages in our squad, similar to what Barton/Senderos were on

To answer the other part....a few years, talking maybe 2/3 maximum if he plays well

You said it was an average signing, or words to those affect, did you not?

I'm not one to guess, but i'd say his pedigree would have earned him atleast the same as Senderos/Barton? No? 

2/3 years, in todays game, isnt bad is it? 

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PRW.    4,045
13 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

I can't remember seeing a more unhappy group of players at this club; as you say maybe he has made it loud and clear he doesn't want them.

Apparently they are struggling the "physical and mental" demands from Caixinhas methods.

boo fucking hoo

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Valance1690    237
Just now, WWTC said:

You said it was an average signing, or words to those affect, did you not?

I'm not one to guess, but i'd say his pedigree would have earned him atleast the same as Senderos/Barton? No? 

2/3 years, in todays game, isnt bad is it? 

Aye I said decent, think he is a decent signing.

Don't think he's going to single handedly carry us to 55, seems to be the impression i'm getting from some people. 

Yep, no arguments with him getting paid the same as both of them got, especially since he's still playing international football...but we seen how both of them turned out so it's still a pretty big risk.

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Valance1690    237
6 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

Largely agree.

But assuming they don't go if it's the choice of

1. Have his transfer budget restricted but keep the contracted ones like MOH in the unders and try to show them they've no future or

2. Have his transfer budget restricted and have them in his squad at the expense of some promising kids, even though they're unreliable duds, which encourages them to stay longer

I'll go with 1.

Would definetley go for 1 aye.

But think he needs to at least try and build bridges with a few, as much as we would love to get rid of a dozen of these players and replace them, can't expect that to happen through 1 window.

Somebody like Forrester I still think could be a decent backup

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WWTC    795
59 minutes ago, Straight-Edge-Loyal said:

Yes pretty much that and they arrived with a supposed big reputation and hopes for us. I just want our title back and to build sustainably and working on a better plan for the future.

Had you ever even heard of Cribari before we signed him? Be honest now. 10+years in Italy at average sides, playing about 200games, and winning a single cup, against a guy whos won ever league hes played in with the exception of this season, every cup with the exception of this season, a european championship winner and a runner up the previous tournament? 

There is no comparison other than the are both centre halfs who at some point have played in Serie A. 

We all our title back, a born winner at the club with his experience cant be a bad thing surely

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WWTC    795
4 minutes ago, Valance1690 said:

Aye I said decent, think he is a decent signing.

Don't think he's going to single handedly carry us to 55, seems to be the impression i'm getting from some people. 

Yep, no arguments with him getting paid the same as both of them got, especially since he's still playing international football...but we seen how both of them turned out so it's still a pretty big risk.

Fair enough. I'd say its a big signing but each to their own. 

No ones goin to single handedly carry us to the league, but if he signs hes a good start imo.

 

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9 minutes ago, Valance1690 said:

Would definetley go for 1 aye.

But think he needs to at least try and build bridges with a few, as much as we would love to get rid of a dozen of these players and replace them, can't expect that to happen through 1 window.

Somebody like Forrester I still think could be a decent backup

He has talent but I'm sure at most clubs he starts well then drifts out the picture.

If our game is going to be about pressing then he needs players with an engine.

That ain't Forrester for all he does possess skill.

And if he keeps him in tbe squad with tbe odd game, what's incentivising him to go to free up tbe wages for someone Pedro wants.

Think he's going to have to be ruthless if he doesn't rate them. If they're here, but not starting 11 quality, reserve keeper or kids, they're alienated.

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Valance1690    237
3 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

He has talent but I'm sure at most clubs he starts well then drifts out the picture.

If our game is going to be about pressing then he needs players with an engine.

That ain't Forrester for all he does possess skill.

And if he keeps him in tbe squad with tbe odd game, what's incentivising him to go to free up tbe wages for someone Pedro wants.

Think he's going to have to be ruthless if he doesn't rate them. If they're here, but not starting 11 quality, reserve keeper or kids, they're alienated.

Aye he has talent but it's an attitude problem with him, if he's not starting every game he flings the toys out the pram, thinks he deserves more than he gets.

Always been under the impression that the pressing portion of Pedro's game can always be taught to any player....they are all fit guys, they just need the mindset drilled into them to play that kind of game.

The point about what's incentivising him is spot on, the wages these players are on, what's incentivising any of them to go and look elsewhere? They'll end up back down at Plymouth something earning much less than they do just now, they might as well stay here in their eyes!

Wish we were in the position where we could terminate some of the contracts, the only reason some of them will stay here is the money, if we could offer some of the longer term ones a bit of cash to fuck off early then they would take it.

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big blue Fin    648

A 35 year old Portuguese hammer thrower whose best years are very definitely behind him or he would be telling us where to go.

If true then please excuse me for not being enthused by this, especially since king has come out and admitted that the season ticket money is again our transfer fund.

I predict another season of pain and humiliation.

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34 minutes ago, WWTC said:

Had you ever even heard of Cribari before we signed him? Be honest now. 10+years in Italy at average sides, playing about 200games, and winning a single cup, against a guy whos won ever league hes played in with the exception of this season, every cup with the exception of this season, a european championship winner and a runner up the previous tournament? 

There is no comparison other than the are both centre halfs who at some point have played in Serie A. 

We all our title back, a born winner at the club with his experience cant be a bad thing surely

I had heard of him from Football Manager years ago yes but obviously not heard anything about him for a long time.

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Valance1690    237
4 minutes ago, big blue Fin said:

A 35 year old Portuguese hammer thrower whose best years are very definitely behind him or he would be telling us where to go.

If true then please excuse me for not being enthused by this, especially since king has come out and admitted that the season ticket money is again our transfer fund.

I predict another season of pain and humiliation.

If we get the full amount of the season money for our transfer fund i'll be fucking delighted....

35,000 fans already renewed, that'll climb a little on public sale, tickets average of about £350-£400....that's a fairly decent fund. 

Chances of us getting every penny of that for transfers alone .... 0%

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big blue Fin    648
5 minutes ago, Valance1690 said:

If we get the full amount of the season money for our transfer fund i'll be fucking delighted....

35,000 fans already renewed, that'll climb a little on public sale, tickets average of about £350-£400....that's a fairly decent fund. 

Chances of us getting every penny of that for transfers alone .... 0%

Being quoted at around £11million just about £10million light.

Where is the money that king promised? In the same reality where craig whyte was touted as a billionaire I suspect.

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Big Al II    4,258
1 hour ago, Valance1690 said:

Not ignoring nothing...not saying this guy is a bad signing btw or a waste of wages....just not as buzzing as the rest seem to be!

Guessing he'll be on the higher wages in our squad, similar to what Barton/Senderos were on

To answer the other part....a few years, talking maybe 2/3 maximum if he plays well

From Kiernon to stalwart in Portugal team who just won Euro championships with a series of excellent defensive performances....mmmh.

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