ZeGowse 13 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Fans stand against all-seat rule Scottish Premier League grounds must be all-seater A group of football fans has launched a bid to overturn the ban on standing areas at Scottish Premier League football stadiums. A petition, which was organised by fans of Dunfermline Athletic, is being considered in the Scottish Parliament. They argue that the all-seater rule penalises clubs who are forced to build new stands for promotion to the SPL, but which are then never filled. Dunfermline supporters have gathered 2,314 signatures on the petition. Lack of atmosphere The Fife club is in the First Division of the Scottish Football League but fans want to see standing areas allowed if they should win promotion. Stephen Taylor, of the Pars Supporters Trust, is expected to appear before MSPs on the Public Petitions Committee. He told BBC Scotland: "First and foremost we are coming from the point of view of the lack of atmosphere at grounds, something I think even the Old Firm fans would accept." Mr Taylor said he was proposing "safe" standing areas along the model demonstrated by German clubs. He said there was no desire to go back to the "old days" of cramped and unsafe terraces. "We are looking at limited standing and clubs having the choice," he said. "At the moment if you get to the SPL there is minimum 6,000 seats and no standing. "You have got clubs in the First Division just now such as Queen of the South, Greenock Morton and Ross County who this time next year could be vying for promotion to the SPL. "They would be faced with a major headache, having to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds putting new seats in and will it be worth it?" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8033151.stm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombaybadboy08 15,660 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Cant see standing areas ever being brought back you get moaned at for standing up just now FFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperRangers 2 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Dunfermline havent fulled their staidum for probably 20 odd years, maybe thats why the atmosphere is shite Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumshie 205 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 No chance of it ever being brought back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw69uk 123 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 The Dunfermline guys are right, and, well, look at the Ibrox atmosphere? Bringing back standing areas has worked fine in Germany, and, if I recall, the FA were looking into it as well. As for those who dont like people standing up, they dont have to go to the standing areas do they? They can have their cosy little seats with all the other grouchy twats. Just imagine having one end of Ibrox, standing section, with all our "singers" in it as well... maybe then we would get a bit of roar back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccoist355 4 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 No chance of it ever being brought back Disagree - its just a case of how much the fans want it. There is simply no safety case against it anymore to prevent it - look at Germany, look at other countries. If the fans really organise we can make it happen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briton 394 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 It is perfectly possible to have safe terracing. We'll never go back to the days when you were packed like sardines but there's no reason why terracing areas cannot be regulated by ticketing in the same way as seating. Probably never happen though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw69uk 123 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 It is perfectly possible to have safe terracing. We'll never go back to the days when you were packed like sardines but there's no reason why terracing areas cannot be regulated by ticketing in the same way as seating. Probably never happen though. Easy as pie mate, happens at almost every music event. Venue has a capacity, so, you sell that many tickets... done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandSuckMaster 1,775 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 If you sit in, for example, the east enclosure during an old firm match or big European match, the crowd stand for the full game in any case. If we all stand up, they are not going to through us ALL out and the seats act as a barrier, giving people space. Terraces would be great, but let's just stand anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManchestGer 347 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I can see where Dunfermline are coming from. It would be good to have standing sections and there is no reason why it couldn't be done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiadreamin52 339 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 The question is do you want safety or atmosphere , atmosphere can be generated sitting or standing . With twentieth anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster just past I believe it was stated "There was no such think as safe standing" . Ask anyone who has been involved in either of these disasters for there opinion and if feel it will be a resounding no thanks…… never again . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccoist355 4 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 The question is do you want safety or atmosphere , atmosphere can be generated sitting or standing . With twentieth anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster just past I believe it was stated "There was no such think as safe standing" . Ask anyone who has been involved in either of these disasters for there opinion and if feel it will be a resounding no thanks…… never again . They are hardly objective though are they Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briton 394 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 The question is do you want safety or atmosphere , atmosphere can be generated sitting or standing . With twentieth anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster just past I believe it was stated "There was no such think as safe standing" . Ask anyone who has been involved in either of these disasters for there opinion and if feel it will be a resounding no thanks…… never again . There's no such thing as safe seating...remember the Bradford fire? Of course there's no 100% safe anything, you may as well say it would be safer if everybody watched it on the telly. It's not a question of going back to the type of terracing we once had, or seating, a compromise is perfectly attainable. As Outlaw points out...we have standing at other events. If terracing was penned and ticketed, as well as having adequate safety barriers etc. there's no reason they couldn't be acceptably safe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiadreamin52 339 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Are you for real, my objection was safety over atmosphere…… there simple enough for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanMac 185 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Are you for real, my objection was safety over atmosphere…… there simple enough for you Totally wrong though. Why did these disasters happen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
docspiderman 1,254 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Been going to games for 50 years so I grew up watching in standing terraces. This is a different era and going backwards would be wrong. There are those who argue for standing areas but for kids to see the game they have to be at the front and away from their parent, as I did in the fifties. I am biased because I now prefer to watch games in relative comfort.I realise that the campaign is for voluntary standing areas in parts of the ground but still believe it is a step back in time when the world should be going forward. Also WTF do Dunfermline fans know about football and watching football; 1400 watched their home game last night. The last Dunfermline initiative cost us the Sky deal so this campaign should be ignored before we are dragged back in time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiadreamin52 339 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Bring back Macaroon bars and Spearmint gum About the same time as all seated Stadiums was legislated so was the banning of alcohol brought in so lets bring back the alcohol first to see if it improves the atmosphere at games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw69uk 123 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Are you for real, my objection was safety over atmosphere…… there simple enough for you The issue being, why is this only an issue at football? Standing happens at ALL major music festivals, normally with bigger crowds than football. Standing (and drinking!) at Rugby/Cricket, standing at other football events outwith the UK, all of which have to pass stringent safety measure to actually take place. Hillsborough (remember where I live lol), was caused by poor poor stewarding/policing, and, nothing to do with standing, but to do with the security fences which were erected in all English grounds, due to there incredibly bad behaviour, a follow on from Hysel. Hillsborough would not have happened if there had not been such a bad hooligan element in English football at the time. If memory serves, Bradford was caused by smoking? Which has also been addressed. Regardless of cause, nothing to do with standing. It is a complete misnomer that standing at matches is a safety issue. I remember when I was young, my Uncle was/is a fairly successful business man in the Edinburgh region, so, when he took me to games, we went in the "Grandstand", the bit with the seats haha, seemed so posh, but, I spent my time on the terraces, and, the atmosphere was far better. The argument for the atmosphere is a gimme as well, on one side, just look at the atmosphere now? or lack of! At Ibrox, and, pretty much everywhere else. Then, look at the Italian and German games where they have the standing sections, and, the "ultras" who stand and sing all match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelle1880 236 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 People who think standing is unsafe should really go abroad now and again. I would rather be in a standing area if something happens (Like a fire) than crammed in small seats and being unable to move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiadreamin52 339 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Major events in sport etc be it Rugby Murrayfield, Twickenham, Cricket Lords seated believe its down to ground capacity if all seating is required Pop Events Glastonbury, T in the Park are open air and with wide open standing areas with room on the periphery. Bradford haven’t see anyone wanting to return to the storage of material under Stands . Jelle People who have stood on the terrace for year prior to the Ibrox disaster or were involved in the Disaster have no need to go abroad for experience I also take it you do not fly as that would involve being crammed into a small seat and being unable to move? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Manticore* 1,893 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Good point. I always stand during flights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw69uk 123 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Major events in sport etc be it Rugby Murrayfield, Twickenham, Cricket Lords seated believe its down to ground capacity if all seating is required Pop Events Glastonbury, T in the Park are open air and with wide open standing areas with room on the periphery. Bradford haven’t see anyone wanting to return to the storage of material under Stands . Jelle People who have stood on the terrace for year prior to the Ibrox disaster or were involved in the Disaster have no need to go abroad for experience I also take it you do not fly as that would involve being crammed into a small seat and being unable to move? So, its down to organisation and numbers, like I said. What about non football events at Wembley, O2, even Ibrox, where there is standing room? No periphery room there? No stadiums have fans fenced in, so, its not an issue any longer, as I stated above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiadreamin52 339 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 No its down to safety and the safest way is to use seating. with regards to none football event if you wish to continue to depart from footballing events, are the fans at Wembly etc not standing on the playing surface rather than the terraces, also o2 is not a footballing stadium and only has a 20,000 capacity more like East End Park Football and football fans are a bread unto there serves and should not be compare with other gatherings of people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Manticore* 1,893 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 No don't compare with non footballing events. It means you win the argument Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigeee 60 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I'd love to see a return to the terraces. I read someone make a point about people standing at rock concerts etc - and there are no issues there. Why can't football fans be trusted? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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