Why all the love for number 18?

[outlaw69uk 123]

he is still not good enough,

Simply wrong. He's the Scotland Kenny Miller under Walter Smith, the one who gave 4 world class Italian defenders Hell at Hampden.

He's finally found consistency and the ability to produce his Scotland team form on the club stage - that's the critical difference.

The earlier club (Derby, us before, Timmy, Wolves) Miller was an average player who seemed to play out of his skin when Walter took over at Scotland.

Clearly Walter gets the best out of him, and Kenny Miller has become one of our most valuable and influential players.

So, just in case you didn't read it first time, you're wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Brimming over with wrongability. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Wrong

That is your opinion, and while you are entitled to it, I believe it is you that are wrong wrong wrong.

Surely you are having a laugh at the Italy game example. If you really believe Miller gave the Italians the runaround at Hampden, your credibility has gone completely. We had one world class player that day who stood out a mile as our best player against a top quality side, and he has now been banned from representing his country and playing at Birmingham.

If you are suggesting Miller has been a model of consistency in his second spell at our club, you are either wrong again, deliberately trying to stoke a debate, or dont watch us play live very often. It may be that the matches you have attended have coincided with Miller's few good games last season.

That is my opinion, like the OP's and many others, but let me finish with one question.

If Miller is good enough for Rangers and is consistently performing for us, why has his name never been chanted at a game?

I would suggest we are a very good support to players who play at a consistently high level, and have been known to chant songs about our good players or even just "one .... ....., theres only one .... ...." Miller has never been afforded that luxury. So why is that? Are you accusing the whole Rangers paying support of being too bigoted or short-sighted to praise one of our players? Or is it because, unlike the view of a majority of posters on this thread, he has not reached a consistently high enough level to win over the majority, or even a vocal minority, or paying Rangers supporters?

The other question not yet answered in this thread is why, if the OP and others are so biased against Miller just because he played for "them", does the OP and others have high praise for Mojo?

Perhaps its been overlooked because it, well, pretty much blows the whole "because he played for celtic" argument out the water

The rest of it, I wouldnt expect an answer on given the responses so far

[Goianegra 4,710]

Don't try and fix what is not broken.

[Creampuff 22,630]

Fuck up OP, he's a good lad, ugly as sin, but a good lad.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Ach bit of a shame this whole thread - but this thread doesn't really seem to have been initiated on Millers playing prowess or not but on the fact he played for them - (and yet outlaw doesn't seem to have the balls to say that - just distainfully calling him 18! and citing 'other' reasons) Sad opening post - very sad indeed!

We all have our opinions about best 11, best formation and such and as such Kenny Miller is an excellent player to have in our squad (IMHO).

well done, massive incorrect assumption If It was "because he played for them", then, I would have said so. Do i like that? no, but, its not the over riding factor. I wasnt happy when we signed him the first time, am I a bigot because he was an ex hibs player?? haha. Have you forgotten what he said when he left us the first time?

I didnt realise calling a player by his squad number was such a terrible thing

Setting anything else aside, based on ability and contribution, not good enough, not for me. A decent (at best) squad player, and thats it.

To use some other "arguments" put forward in regard to other players, when we were in dire need of shifting someone out, why no rumours about him? Even Boyd had more transfer stories and, according to some, he is well below him in ability?

Some have said he performs great for Scotland, well, not as a striker he doesnt? And, why arent Scotland successful? Thats almost the same argument as Charlie Adam performing well for Blackpool. Doesnt make him good enough for Rangers does it?

So, why the sudden change of opinion towards him, given apart from a few games, he is still the Miller of old. Why the difference between the stadium and forms?

The problem is the innuendo in your first post - I may have interpreted it wrongly but without all the innuendo laden comments it is clear you have something personal against Miller - and then choose to berate him based on factors that 'seem' to have little to do with football - i.e. you have picked on the weaknesses in his game and choose to highlight them based on initial dislike.

"other aspects about him that are unpalletable, but, part of that is a personal thing" - perhaps you could have just stated what other aspects you found unpalatable and then we could have looked at your comments based on where you are coming from.

Yes I do find the way you refer to him as No18 disrespectful - I may be wrong in this interpretation as well but I believe you meant it to be disrespectful and at best knew if would be interpreted as disrespectful.

Many of our players have faults - they get debated on here all the time - but I still question your motivations in starting this thread and it is a shame you can't acknowledge the contribution he has made since he arrived and that view seems to be based on your opinion of his 'unpalletable' aspects.

[yellowcross 5]

Perhaps the use of "Number 18" by the OP is cryptic rather than derogatory as would first appear.....

For example:

In Ancient Roman custom the number 18 can symbolise a blood relative - could Outlaw be telling us that he is related to Kenny Miller.......?

In Judaism, in the Talmud, Rabbi Yehudah ben Teime gives the age of 18 as the appropriate age to get married - is Outlaw referring to Kenny Miller coming of age in a footballing sense........?

In Chinese tradition, the number 18, normally shí bā, can also be read as yāo bā, which sounds like yào fā, meaning that one is going to prosper - is Outlaw saying that Rangers are going to prosper with Kenny Miller in the team........?

In Hebrew the word for "life" is חי (chai), which has a numerical value of 18. Consequently, the custom has arisen in Jewish circles to give donations and monetary gifts in multiples of 18 as an expression of blessing for long life - is Outlaw telling us he is wishing Kenny Miller the blessing of a long life........?

So: open yer minds real wide - maybe this Outlaw is a cryptic fella rather than an insulting fella.......

[outlaw69uk 123]

Ach bit of a shame this whole thread - but this thread doesn't really seem to have been initiated on Millers playing prowess or not but on the fact he played for them - (and yet outlaw doesn't seem to have the balls to say that - just distainfully calling him 18! and citing 'other' reasons) Sad opening post - very sad indeed!

We all have our opinions about best 11, best formation and such and as such Kenny Miller is an excellent player to have in our squad (IMHO).

well done, massive incorrect assumption If It was "because he played for them", then, I would have said so. Do i like that? no, but, its not the over riding factor. I wasnt happy when we signed him the first time, am I a bigot because he was an ex hibs player?? haha. Have you forgotten what he said when he left us the first time?

I didnt realise calling a player by his squad number was such a terrible thing

Setting anything else aside, based on ability and contribution, not good enough, not for me. A decent (at best) squad player, and thats it.

To use some other "arguments" put forward in regard to other players, when we were in dire need of shifting someone out, why no rumours about him? Even Boyd had more transfer stories and, according to some, he is well below him in ability?

Some have said he performs great for Scotland, well, not as a striker he doesnt? And, why arent Scotland successful? Thats almost the same argument as Charlie Adam performing well for Blackpool. Doesnt make him good enough for Rangers does it?

So, why the sudden change of opinion towards him, given apart from a few games, he is still the Miller of old. Why the difference between the stadium and forms?

The problem is the innuendo in your first post - I may have interpreted it wrongly but without all the innuendo laden comments it is clear you have something personal against Miller - and then choose to berate him based on factors that 'seem' to have little to do with football - i.e. you have picked on the weaknesses in his game and choose to highlight them based on initial dislike.

"other aspects about him that are unpalletable, but, part of that is a personal thing" - perhaps you could have just stated what other aspects you found unpalatable and then we could have looked at your comments based on where you are coming from.

Yes I do find the way you refer to him as No18 disrespectful - I may be wrong in this interpretation as well but I believe you meant it to be disrespectful and at best knew if would be interpreted as disrespectful.

Many of our players have faults - they get debated on here all the time - but I still question your motivations in starting this thread and it is a shame you can't acknowledge the contribution he has made since he arrived and that view seems to be based on your opinion of his 'unpalletable' aspects.

I dont understand that part? Seriously I dont. How can weaknesses in his game be anything oher than football related? As I mentioned in the thread, people are looking to play the "he played for them" card if you question/criticise his ability. Now, this is something you yourself did, yet, surely you have seen other pieces I have written? Why would I suddenly become a card carrying uber bigot over a player I dont rate? Arent there far more obvious, and, easier ways to do that?

I have also not denied he made a contribution, of course he has, as have others, but I dont think he, and others, are good enough. I also havent changed my opinion on him, throughout his career, for me, he isnt that good a player, simple as. Its my opinion, doesnt make it any more right or wrong than those who think he is the best thing since sliced bread.

You can question my motivations as much as you like, there was a very specific reason for me posting what I posted, and, in the EXACT manner I posted it. It will become clear soon enough, possibly around lunchtime when I have a break, and, in the main, the reaction was, well, more than I expected, which, in a lot of ways was disappointing, although, not unexpected in some cases.

[Jardy 0]

some people just cant let the players get their heeds doon

[Tumshie 205]

he is still not good enough,

Simply wrong. He's the Scotland Kenny Miller under Walter Smith, the one who gave 4 world class Italian defenders Hell at Hampden.

He's finally found consistency and the ability to produce his Scotland team form on the club stage - that's the critical difference.

The earlier club (Derby, us before, Timmy, Wolves) Miller was an average player who seemed to play out of his skin when Walter took over at Scotland.

Clearly Walter gets the best out of him, and Kenny Miller has become one of our most valuable and influential players.

So, just in case you didn't read it first time, you're wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Brimming over with wrongability. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Wrong

As per your later post, if you read it, I dont think his Scotland form was good enough either. Smith does clearly get the best out of him, but, its not good enough for me.

If his current form is so much better, why havent his stats improved drastically? Surey they would have?

All players can have standout games, christ, most people loved the line in reference to Charlie Adam that "a few good games dont gloss over the rest of his performances, he isnt good enough" (paraphrasing)

His goalscoring is on a par with what you would expect from a striker at a team like hibs or hearts, according to how many he gets per season.

To use another classic RM argument base, if he IS so good, why was he never linked with a move away? (its not one I like, but, many seem to)I would argue that every other midfielder, Weir and Boughera are far more important and influential. Add to that, if we are in dire need of a goal, percentage wise, how confident are you miller would get it?

You are loving the word wrong tonight fella, and unsurprisingly managed to make a point without claiming its "just because he played for them"

Well Boyd is good enough and I've noticed a long line of clubs banging on Walter Smith's door desperate to pay top dollar for him.

Smith's first choice pairing is Boyd and Miller. They both compliment each other. Both players have their faults which we all know about but in the SPL they will start.

In Europe we will be on the back foot for a lot of games particularly away from home. We need someone to chase down lost causes and harry defenders. The only 2 strikers we have at the club that can do, and have had experience of doing that, is Miller and Lafferty. The big man's injury prone so the onus will fall on Miller.

We all know he isn't as good as strikers we have had in the past but we could go right through the whole team with that

[outlaw69uk 123]

Perhaps the use of "Number 18" by the OP is cryptic rather than derogatory as would first appear.....

For example:

In Ancient Roman custom the number 18 can symbolise a blood relative - could Outlaw be telling us that he is related to Kenny Miller.......?

In Judaism, in the Talmud, Rabbi Yehudah ben Teime gives the age of 18 as the appropriate age to get married - is Outlaw referring to Kenny Miller coming of age in a footballing sense........?

In Chinese tradition, the number 18, normally shí bā, can also be read as yāo bā, which sounds like yào fā, meaning that one is going to prosper - is Outlaw saying that Rangers are going to prosper with Kenny Miller in the team........?

In Hebrew the word for "life" is חי (chai), which has a numerical value of 18. Consequently, the custom has arisen in Jewish circles to give donations and monetary gifts in multiples of 18 as an expression of blessing for long life - is Outlaw telling us he is wishing Kenny Miller the blessing of a long life........?

So: open yer minds real wide - maybe this Outlaw is a cryptic fella rather than an insulting fella.......

Fantastic mate

I didnt know about the Judaism or Roman versions

edit: Just re-read my OP, and, insulting? bar not using his name, none of it is an insult

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Well I "told it" to anyone who reads this thread and it seems a few people have mentioned how stupid it sounded so they obviosuly care. Fair enough if you don't care about looking like a twat though.

I think he doesn't care about you thinking he 'looks like' a twat.....

Cheers for the contribution pal

You're welcome pal, I'm always available to help the hard of thinking.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Can't believe this thread is still going. It's painful to read.

Just put yourself out of pain, stop reading it if it hurts.

You know it makes sense....

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Are you talking about the 2-1 defeat? I might be wrong but I think Danny is talking about the 1-1 draw where Miller scored and caused problems all game.

A 1-1 draw, when was that? I can only remember the game at the end of the last campaign when we lost a late goal. Last November I think.

It was about August 2005, he did play well that day.

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

Will be interesting to read the reasoning behind the thread, after reading through everything that has been posted I think I can hazard a guess where this is going, and to Outlaw very clever.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Perhaps the use of "Number 18" by the OP is cryptic rather than derogatory as would first appear.....

For example:

In Ancient Roman custom the number 18 can symbolise a blood relative - could Outlaw be telling us that he is related to Kenny Miller.......?

In Judaism, in the Talmud, Rabbi Yehudah ben Teime gives the age of 18 as the appropriate age to get married - is Outlaw referring to Kenny Miller coming of age in a footballing sense........?

In Chinese tradition, the number 18, normally shí bā, can also be read as yāo bā, which sounds like yào fā, meaning that one is going to prosper - is Outlaw saying that Rangers are going to prosper with Kenny Miller in the team........?

In Hebrew the word for "life" is חי (chai), which has a numerical value of 18. Consequently, the custom has arisen in Jewish circles to give donations and monetary gifts in multiples of 18 as an expression of blessing for long life - is Outlaw telling us he is wishing Kenny Miller the blessing of a long life........?

So: open yer minds real wide - maybe this Outlaw is a cryptic fella rather than an insulting fella.......

Great stuff yc, but you've missed another meaning of '18' which is quite sinister in a way.......

[papaguy51 941]

As I always seem to say in these threads about our strikers, I just wish we could put them all in one big bag (including Lafferty and Boyd) and sell the bag for £10m.

I'd then use that £10m to buy two or three quality strikers who can do everything.

Problem solved, no more debate.

[outlaw69uk 123]

As I always seem to say in these threads about our strikers, I just wish we could put them all in one big bag (including Lafferty and Boyd) and sell the bag for £10m.

I'd then use that £10m to buy two or three quality strikers who can do everything.

Problem solved, no more debate.

That would make RM a dull place though wouldnt it?

[yellowcross 5]

Great stuff yc, but you've missed another meaning of '18' which is quite sinister in a way.......

Minimum age at which one can legally buy marijuana in the Netherlands.

[yellowcross 5]

Great stuff yc, but you've missed another meaning of '18' which is quite sinister in a way.......

Combat 18 (or C18) is the "armed wing" of the racist British neo-Nazi organisation Blood & Honour. Combat 18's involvement has been suspected in numerous deaths of immigrants, non-whites and other members involved in a bloody civil war inside the group. The "18" in its name is commonly used by neo-Nazi groups, and is derived from the initials of Adolf Hitler; A and H are the first and eighth letters of the Latin alphabet.

So that is what Outlaw is on about....!

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Great stuff yc, but you've missed another meaning of '18' which is quite sinister in a way.......

Combat 18 (or C18) is the "armed wing" of the racist British neo-Nazi organisation Blood & Honour. Combat 18's involvement has been suspected in numerous deaths of immigrants, non-whites and other members involved in a bloody civil war inside the group. The "18" in its name is commonly used by neo-Nazi groups, and is derived from the initials of Adolf Hitler; A and H are the first and eighth letters of the Latin alphabet.

So that is what Outlaw is on about....!

That's the one.

This whole thread is a Neo Nazi plot.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Well I "told it" to anyone who reads this thread and it seems a few people have mentioned how stupid it sounded so they obviosuly care. Fair enough if you don't care about looking like a twat though.

I think he doesn't care about you thinking he 'looks like' a twat.....

Cheers for the contribution pal

Manticore make a contribution

The wee fud wouldn't know how to, i have never seen hiim make a point that wasn't hilarious fishing........

As for the OP he has a personal grudge against Miller apparently, i wonder if he called him "number eighteen " to his face .......

Thats twice you have replied in a thread you said wasnt worth a reply, and, each time just to make personal digs, not contribute, well done

Poor old GCL, just can't keep out, can't make a sensible contribution.

[minstral 5,375]

Okay straight to the point, he sold his soul to the devil when he played for the darkside, he is a judas and money is his god.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Ach bit of a shame this whole thread - but this thread doesn't really seem to have been initiated on Millers playing prowess or not but on the fact he played for them - (and yet outlaw doesn't seem to have the balls to say that - just distainfully calling him 18! and citing 'other' reasons) Sad opening post - very sad indeed!

We all have our opinions about best 11, best formation and such and as such Kenny Miller is an excellent player to have in our squad (IMHO).

well done, massive incorrect assumption If It was "because he played for them", then, I would have said so. Do i like that? no, but, its not the over riding factor. I wasnt happy when we signed him the first time, am I a bigot because he was an ex hibs player?? haha. Have you forgotten what he said when he left us the first time?

I didnt realise calling a player by his squad number was such a terrible thing

Setting anything else aside, based on ability and contribution, not good enough, not for me. A decent (at best) squad player, and thats it.

To use some other "arguments" put forward in regard to other players, when we were in dire need of shifting someone out, why no rumours about him? Even Boyd had more transfer stories and, according to some, he is well below him in ability?

Some have said he performs great for Scotland, well, not as a striker he doesnt? And, why arent Scotland successful? Thats almost the same argument as Charlie Adam performing well for Blackpool. Doesnt make him good enough for Rangers does it?

So, why the sudden change of opinion towards him, given apart from a few games, he is still the Miller of old. Why the difference between the stadium and forms?

The problem is the innuendo in your first post - I may have interpreted it wrongly but without all the innuendo laden comments it is clear you have something personal against Miller - and then choose to berate him based on factors that 'seem' to have little to do with football - i.e. you have picked on the weaknesses in his game and choose to highlight them based on initial dislike.

"other aspects about him that are unpalletable, but, part of that is a personal thing" - perhaps you could have just stated what other aspects you found unpalatable and then we could have looked at your comments based on where you are coming from.

Yes I do find the way you refer to him as No18 disrespectful - I may be wrong in this interpretation as well but I believe you meant it to be disrespectful and at best knew if would be interpreted as disrespectful.

Many of our players have faults - they get debated on here all the time - but I still question your motivations in starting this thread and it is a shame you can't acknowledge the contribution he has made since he arrived and that view seems to be based on your opinion of his 'unpalletable' aspects.

I dont understand that part? Seriously I dont. How can weaknesses in his game be anything oher than football related? As I mentioned in the thread, people are looking to play the "he played for them" card if you question/criticise his ability. Now, this is something you yourself did, yet, surely you have seen other pieces I have written? Why would I suddenly become a card carrying uber bigot over a player I dont rate? Arent there far more obvious, and, easier ways to do that?

I have also not denied he made a contribution, of course he has, as have others, but I dont think he, and others, are good enough. I also havent changed my opinion on him, throughout his career, for me, he isnt that good a player, simple as. Its my opinion, doesnt make it any more right or wrong than those who think he is the best thing since sliced bread.

You can question my motivations as much as you like, there was a very specific reason for me posting what I posted, and, in the EXACT manner I posted it. It will become clear soon enough, possibly around lunchtime when I have a break, and, in the main, the reaction was, well, more than I expected, which, in a lot of ways was disappointing, although, not unexpected in some cases.

Awaits with baited breath the rationale behind the OP! What time is your lunch ?

[outlaw69uk 123]

Great stuff yc, but you've missed another meaning of '18' which is quite sinister in a way.......

Combat 18 (or C18) is the "armed wing" of the racist British neo-Nazi organisation Blood & Honour. Combat 18's involvement has been suspected in numerous deaths of immigrants, non-whites and other members involved in a bloody civil war inside the group. The "18" in its name is commonly used by neo-Nazi groups, and is derived from the initials of Adolf Hitler; A and H are the first and eighth letters of the Latin alphabet.

So that is what Outlaw is on about....!

That's the one.

This whole thread is a Neo Nazi plot.

Dammit, I have been sussed

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Okay straight to the point, he sold his soul to the devil when he played for the darkside, he is a judas and money is his god.

In a nutshell.

And he's not a very good player.

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

As I always seem to say in these threads about our strikers, I just wish we could put them all in one big bag (including Lafferty and Boyd) and sell the bag for £10m.

I'd then use that £10m to buy two or three quality strikers who can do everything.

Problem solved, no more debate.

In this day and age we wouldn't be able to buy what you want for £10 million though.