Religious leaders at Old Firm match

[Guest orangpendek]

Hi! I'm Jack McConnell. Look, some religious leaders are going the old firm game next week. isn't that exciting? that will surely help stop the blight of sectarianism, because we all know

it's got nothing to do with our abysmal educational apartheid

it's got nothing to do with thick people getting drunk and looking for a fight

it's got nothing to do with decades of non-investment in industry, leaving people to fight for jobs holding the doors open. Got some energy left? have a fight about football/religion!

it's got nothing to do with allowing 'mass' immigration (boom boom) from catholic countries (ireland, poland) to a secular country (scotland) and the tensions that creates

it's got nothing to do with elected officaials pandering to their own vested interests

it's all the fault of those big, bad football teams!

the best argument against independence is that we will have leaders of the calibre of this individual.

[Frankie 505]

Yip, Joke's crusade against sectarianism is merely a sensationalist ploy to hide the genuine social problems that affect our country.

But at least this week he can do it from the comfort of his own seat in the Main Stand at Celtic Park while his fellow fans sing about the IRA, how there will 'soon be no protestants at all' and suggest Walter Smith/Barry Ferguson is a sad orange bastard.

Wonder how David Begg will describe that?

[Thermopylae 15,287]

"Since the club's formation in 1888, Celtic has been a club open to all, regardless of religionâ€

Before Mr Quinn becomes completely overcome by his sanctimonious tendencies he should remember that the board room wasn’t open to their greatest ever manager because he wasn't an RC.

So far as this little stunt at porkheed goes it seems pretty pointless inviting religious leaders along since the Old Firm "problem" is mostly a political one, and very little to do with religion. If you don’t believe that then tell me why we sing against fenians when we could just as easily sing against catholics?

[Guest orangpendek]

speaking for myself, it was (past tense) coz i felt the f word was more annoying to the neighbours. like all children i was indulging in name calling, which rarely if ever uses the correct terminology when a colourful (if inaccurate) epithet will do.

[Wienblue 26]

Yip, Joke's crusade against sectarianism is merely a sensationalist ploy to hide the genuine social problems that affect our country.

But at least this week he can do it from the comfort of his own seat in the Main Stand at Celtic Park while his fellow fans sing about the IRA, how there will 'soon be no protestants at all' and suggest Walter Smith/Barry Ferguson is a sad orange bastard.

Wonder how David Begg will describe that?

Concise post and to the point Frankie, unfortunately your sentiments are so true. To progress as a country, it is necessary to end the educational apartheid and governmental sanctioned separate development in our classrooms, which creates unnecessary division. Furthermore, the invitation of religious leaders to CP endorses the fact that Catholicism is more engrained than anything else at CP. Religion has no place in football and is the seed of division, yet is so interesting to note that these leaders descend on Cp and nowhere else. That perhaps highlights where the real problem lies. The religious roadshow in this patronising manner should not be welcome at any football ground, however, given the Celtic were formed along religious lines and the division which such has caused, it would be more appropriate for these leaders to call for that club to disassociate itself from bigotry and at the same time use their united voices to end classroom apartheid. As its a Scottish delegation, I only hope they ask the board of directors at CP to remove the flag of an overseas country flying throughout our land, this may also go some way to removing the subliminal spectre of division at CP. I am not religious and when you mix religion and politics and / or football - you have the classic elements of division and bitterness which festers in our society.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

Orangpendek to me a fenian is someone who believes in bringing about a (dis)united ireland by violent means, therefore RCs like Amoruso and Albertz almost certainly aren't fenians.

If the difference between the blue and the green in Glasgow was really all about religion we would be taking banners with John Knox and Martin Luther to OF games, but of course we don't because it's basically political.

[Frankie 505]

wienblue:

Many pertinent points and ones which all our detractors (including some of our own support) should consider when forming opinions about who is to blame regarding the religious tensions in the Scottish game and society as a whole.

[Guest TheQueensXI]

immediate dig -

"Since the club's formation in 1888, Celtic has been a club open to all, regardless of religion or race and today we have supporters of many different backgrounds and religions.

what was the point in that, or is it another celtic PR exercise? seriously....

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Can I throw a little spanner into the works here........

All those who regularly tell others football & religion should not mix....what do they think about this proposed attendance ?

[Guest orangpendek]

but it's not a question of 'it's their fault!' or who's to blame. the question we must ask ourselves is 'can we justify overt politico-religious associations with rangers in the year 2007, and if so, why?'

[Frankie 505]

To me a fenian is someone who believes in bringing about a (dis)united ireland by violent means, therefore RCs like Amoruso and Albertz almost certainly aren't fenians.

If the difference between the blue and the green in Glasgow was really all about religion we would be taking banners with John Knox and Martin Luther to OF games, but of course we don't because it's basically political.

The debate about the word fenian is an interesting one and arguably one that could never be won by any side IMO.

However, it is interesting how this word is now so socially unacceptable yet the word 'h**' (almost a literal mirror to fenian) is still common place - even bizarrely amongst our own support. Unfortunately the difference in treatment to 2 equally culpable parties is shameful.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

To me a fenian is someone who believes in bringing about a (dis)united ireland by violent means, therefore RCs like Amoruso and Albertz almost certainly aren't fenians.

If the difference between the blue and the green in Glasgow was really all about religion we would be taking banners with John Knox and Martin Luther to OF games, but of course we don't because it's basically political.

The debate about the word fenian is an interesting one and arguably one that could never be won by any side IMO.

However, it is interesting how this word is now so socially unacceptable yet the word 'h**' (almost a literal mirror to fenian) is still common place - even bizarrely amongst our own support. Unfortunately the difference in treatment to 2 equally culpable parties is shameful.

You only have to read these boards to see how self-loathing a section of our own support are these days (they can't all be A CARPENTER'S TOOL INDEEDs).

[Wienblue 26]

wienblue:

Many pertinent points and ones which all our detractors (including some of our own support) should consider when forming opinions about who is to blame regarding the religious tensions in the Scottish game and society as a whole.

Frankie :

It's much more difficult and thought provoking to tackle the real issues which underpin sectarianism within our society. McConnell et al only look at the more sensationalist view and "spin" without tackling the more serious fundamental problems of apartheid, perhaps because its so closer to home and they fear for addressing the real problems. Much easier to gloss over the periphery and hope the more serious and intellectually challenged are marginalised - bit like hiding the facts, as politcians often do (Iraq and other sensitive issues). McConnel the poliician who allows corruption in his Wishaw office and whose constituency neigbours Monklands - with its religious bigotry and apartheid in the council chamber. As I say, let's tackle the real issues first, put our house in order - have openness and equality and break down educational barriers - only then can we truly live in an inclusibe, broad and tolerant society - which would make us all proud. Perhaps then, there would be no need for the ninety minute and sometimes more sectarianism.

[Boab 73]

You only have to read these boards to see how self-loathing a section of our own support are these days (they can't all be A CARPENTER'S TOOL INDEEDs).

Imagine if D'A had said that.......

[Guest orangpendek]

hmmm..was that aimed at me? i loathe neither myself nor you. in fact, i love you! in fact

i wanna be loved by you

just you

nobody else but you

i wanna be loved by you

all over

oo-boop de doo!

there you go, that MUST have cheered you up!

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

You only have to read these boards to see how self-loathing a section of our own support are these days (they can't all be A CARPENTER'S TOOL INDEEDs).

Imagine if D'A had said that.......

You only have to read these boards to see how self-loathing a section of our own support are these days (they can't all be A CARPENTER'S TOOL INDEEDs)

There IB...no need to imagine any longer !

[Frankie 505]

Frankie :

It's much more difficult and thought provoking to tackle the real issues which underpin sectarianism within our society. McConnell et al only look at the more sensationalist view and "spin" without tackling the more serious fundamental problems of apartheid, perhaps because its so closer to home and they fear for addressing the real problems. Much easier to gloss over the periphery and hope the more serious and intellectually challenged are marginalised - bit like hiding the facts, as politcians often do (Iraq and other sensitive issues). McConnel the poliician who allows corruption in his Wishaw office and whose constituency neigbours Monklands - with its religious bigotry and apartheid in the council chamber. As I say, let's tackle the real issues first, put our house in order - have openness and equality and break down educational barriers - only then can we truly live in an inclusibe, broad and tolerant society - which would make us all proud. Perhaps then, there would be no need for the ninety minute and sometimes more sectarianism.

A tremendous post mate and one which the lip-service crusaders such as Joke, Spiers, McNee and their ilk should be made to answer before labelling the rest of us as bigots.

[minstral 5,375]

hmmm..was that aimed at me? i loathe neither myself nor you. in fact, i love you! in fact

i wanna be loved by you

just you

nobody else but you

i wanna be loved by you

all over

oo-boop de doo!

there you go, that MUST have cheered you up!

<cry>

[*Manticore* 1,893]

However, it is interesting how this word is now so socially unacceptable yet the word 'h**' (almost a literal mirror to fenian)

Frankie there is one big difference, fenian is their word for themselves.

Arguably used abusively by others.

But h** has never been our description of ourselves.

If you want an equivalent to h**, it is n***er.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

You only have to read these boards to see how self-loathing a section of our own support are these days (they can't all be A CARPENTER'S TOOL INDEEDs).

Imagine if D'A had said that.......

You only have to read these boards to see how self-loathing a section of our own support are these days (they can't all be A CARPENTER'S TOOL INDEEDs)

There IB...no need to imagine any longer !

Nice one D'Artagnan.

[Frankie 505]

Frankie there is one big difference, fenian is their word for themselves.

Arguably used abusively by others.

But h** has never been our description of ourselves.

If you want an equivalent to h**, it is n***er.

Perhaps, but there are still a fair number of bears happy to be called a h**. I find that word extremely distasteful and ignorant.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

hmmm..was that aimed at me? i loathe neither myself nor you. in fact, i love you! in fact

i wanna be loved by you

just you

nobody else but you

i wanna be loved by you

all over

oo-boop de doo!

there you go, that MUST have cheered you up!

Dont forget the wiggle !

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

wienblue:

Many pertinent points and ones which all our detractors (including some of our own support) should consider when forming opinions about who is to blame regarding the religious tensions in the Scottish game and society as a whole.

Frankie :

It's much more difficult and thought provoking to tackle the real issues which underpin sectarianism within our society. McConnell et al only look at the more sensationalist view and "spin" without tackling the more serious fundamental problems of apartheid, perhaps because its so closer to home and they fear for addressing the real problems. Much easier to gloss over the periphery and hope the more serious and intellectually challenged are marginalised - bit like hiding the facts, as politcians often do (Iraq and other sensitive issues). McConnel the poliician who allows corruption in his Wishaw office and whose constituency neigbours Monklands - with its religious bigotry and apartheid in the council chamber. As I say, let's tackle the real issues first, put our house in order - have openness and equality and break down educational barriers - only then can we truly live in an inclusibe, broad and tolerant society - which would make us all proud. Perhaps then, there would be no need for the ninety minute and sometimes more sectarianism.

100% spot on.

Lets concentrate on a few idiots singing a few silly songs for 90 minutes whilst ignoring the insitutional sectarianism which exists in this country

[minstral 5,375]

at the end of the day it will only be the do gooders left at ibrox and the rest of our fans will be banned or jailed and ibrox will be a empty stadium.

[Boab 73]

You only have to read these boards to see how self-loathing a section of our own support are these days (they can't all be A CARPENTER'S TOOL INDEEDs).

Imagine if D'A had said that.......

You only have to read these boards to see how self-loathing a section of our own support are these days (they can't all be A CARPENTER'S TOOL INDEEDs)

There IB...no need to imagine any longer !

I just thought you'd get stick for sayin' it