What is Scotlands problem?

[Crystalarts 0]

I have posted this before and been shot down but (with minor adjustments made from last post) :

Unfortunately, people expect us to be competing (or beating) teams like Norway and Sweden etc.

Manager/Coach

Give it a rest. Everyone who is not Smith or McLeish are crap apparently. Far lesser coaches than Levein and Burley have done well with national teams. When Craig Brown left his post Vogts inherrited a team of old folks. He introduced over 50 new players to the national team, all of which were youngsters. By the time Smith got the team, he had the added benefit of a reasonably young and experience team to play with. His great coaching abilities as well as a half decent team (still not great, but average players WITH experience at international level helps).

FANS

I have grown up in Greece, lived in Scandinavia, lived in Middle East and of course spent most of my life in Scotland.

Scotland is not a united country. Celtic Fans seem to feel Irish and Rangers fans want a UK team (for some ridiculous and crazy reason).

This is a generalisation, and I know there are many TRUE Scotland fans from both Rangers and Celtic support, however I have never witnessed this in another country. the apparent lack of interest in their own team. Even teams ranked 99 or 120 have better support in terms of the general population.

Does this rub off on players? do players have the same attitude even?

Sorry, but a UK team wont work. and a UK team SHOULDNT exist either. but thats another topic.

PLAYERS

Look at our team :

Mcgregor - Great Goalie, but still many fans split about him and no big clubs ever gone after him as far as I know, so how good is he in the grand scheme of things?

Hutton - Great Right Back if fit. When he is unavailable there is not a single decent right back (Broadfoot doesnt count )

Webster - untested outside Scotland and untested at a big club

Berra - Untested on the big stage

Weir - ok, what kind of country relies on a 40 year old?

Whittaker - Consistant performer at club level, perhaps a bit suspect at times defending.

Thomson - Great defensive player, but untested on the big stage, now injured

McCulloch - Good player, but again, a player like him would not make it into a national team like Norway, Sweden, Denmark etc. getting old.

Brown --- Untested, and not great when he plays

Fletcher - Great player, although like a lot of ex Ajax players, he plays well in a system he has been nurtered for. Doesnt perform for Scotland

Miller ------------- Never played for a big club that is playing in a big league. Not exactly a top striker. works hard and scores for Rangers (looking at his record however hasnt always been a goalscorer)

Mcfadden - Again, never been a first team regular in the premiership

Fletcher - Untested.

Boyd - Even Rangers fans were split on him when it came to big games. "Should have played him" (when we lost a big game without him in the team) "Shouldnt have played him.. hes lazy"(when we lost with him playing)

Compare this to the likes of Norway (potentially the weakest of Norway/Sweden/Denmark) who EVERYONE expects us to beat.

Just to list some players :

Hangeland - One of the most sought after defenders in England

Carew - Played for top clubs across Europe scoring goals at all levels.

Riise - Need I say more?

Morten Gamst Pedersen - played at the top level for ages

Outside of this they have players who have been performing in Norway consistently for at least 4 seasons as well as in the Champ League with their clubs. Then they have younger talent who slot in here and there over time to build experience. (we dont do this. we slot them in with 0 experience and expect them to perform in a bad team)

Even when they were without Carew and a couple of other players they still beat France 2-1 (OK, France arent great anymore I know, but would we have beaten them again?) But then they also go on to beat Iceland away the other day.

Unfortunately we DONT have the players to compete with even the average European sides. I see us competing against the Swiss for example, or Austria.

The players have grown up in a culture of bad eating and alcohol. This no doubt has had an effect on their teenage years in terms of muscle building, agility and natural athletisism compared to many other european countries. In other words an Average Scot will have a disadvantage against an average Swede who has eaten healthy and had far less alcohol and cigarettes in his youth.

[ryankyleakin 31]

hangeland and pedersen are playing on an equal level to both berra and feltcher. and also i wouldnt say fletcher isnt untsted, 1st year in the premiership he scored what was it, 12 or 13 goals? thats decent enough without taking into consideration he was plying for burnley, probably the weakest team in the league last year, who would be relying on counter attacks for the majority of their goals.

[ryankyleakin 31]

Manager/Coach

Give it a rest. Everyone who is not Smith or McLeish are crap apparently. Far lesser coaches than Levein and Burley have done well with national teams. When Craig Brown left his post Vogts inherrited a team of old folks. He introduced over 50 new players to the national team, all of which were youngsters.

i would agree with you here though. he brought through alot of young players who have gone on to win numerous caps for us, players i cant of imagined walter smith bringing through when he was manager?

[papaguy51 912]

As usual, we showed them too much respect.

It's Lithuania for fuck sake.

[papaguy51 912]

Mcgregor - Great Goalie, but still many fans split about him and no big clubs ever gone after him as far as I know, so how good is

Are the fans split about him?

The fans that see him every week (us) pretty much, to a man, rate him as one of the best three British goalkeepers around just now.

[dado1 23]

totally agree that scotland is a divided country in terms of supporting the national team probaly one of the most divided in the world

[ryankyleakin 31]

He has never once been asked to play the same role for Scotland as he plays at Man Utd. At Man Utd he's very much the hard worker in beside someone like Scholes who will spread the play. In a Scotland jersey, he's expected (by every manager who has ever played him) to be the one getting his foot on the ball and playing the killer passes. Its just not his game, and the sooner Levein realises it and stops trying to make him do it, the better.

couldnt agree more.

[mac444 6]

Scotlands problem is players like Brown are rated higher by coaches etc than creative players like Dorrans, and even Dorrans isn't that creative in the grand scheme of things

[Crystalarts 0]

hangeland and pedersen are playing on an equal level to both berra and feltcher. and also i wouldnt say fletcher isnt untsted, 1st year in the premiership he scored what was it, 12 or 13 goals? thats decent enough without taking into consideration he was plying for burnley, probably the weakest team in the league last year, who would be relying on counter attacks for the majority of their goals.

Playing on an equal level, but Hangeland is amongst the most sought after defenders in England and has been playing there for ages. Pedersen has been playing there for ages too and proven season after season.

Fletcher has had a season. Berra too. not exactly established. And you mention counter attacks. That could work for Scotland, but the fact that we need to play counter attack proves the point that we arent good enough in terms of competing against teams like Sweden and Denmark.

[papaguy51 912]

The fact that we need to play counter attack proves the point that we arent good enough in terms of competing against teams like Sweden and Denmark.

Some of Italy's most successful sides would respectfully disagree, I'm sure.

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

I find it ludicrous the way a manager is getting slated already after one real competitive game, sure the system might have seemed negative, but there are many teams in the world who play a 4-5-1, it's just that those teams have better quality footballers, that isn't the managers fault.

Time and time again the criticism should be thrown at those in charge of the national team, not just football but for all sports in Scotland, if those in charge aren't willing to invest then nothing will ever change.

As for the recent game, any time the team did start to play well they would just end up getting booted about, not only should Scotland have had a definite penalty, I'm really surprised that Lithuania managed to keep 11 players on the pitch.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

I think the national team has some decent players. Not a lot of decent center halfs, that's the weak point (although defence wasn't the problem on Friday night)

I think Friday nights problem was Scott Brown and Darren Fletcher. They offer nothing. If I was a Scotland fan, I'd want to see wee Naismith pushed into central midfield alongside McCulloch and have Dorran and Commons on the flanks with Miller and McFadden upfront.

[papaguy51 912]

I think the national team has some decent players. Not a lot of decent center halfs, that's the weak point (although defence wasn't the problem on Friday night)

I think Friday nights problem was Scott Brown and Darren Fletcher. They offer nothing. If I was a Scotland fan, I'd want to see wee Naismith pushed into central midfield alongside McCulloch and have Dorran and Commons on the flanks with Miller and McFadden upfront.

No way would I want to see Naismith and McCulloch in central midfield for Scotland.

I'd have Dorrans and Fletcher/McCulloch if I had my own way. Dorrans to provide the creativity and Fletcher or McCulloch to provide the steel. The role we ask Fletcher to play for Scotland is absolutely alien to the role he played ten out of ten times for Man United.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

No way would I want to see Naismith and McCulloch in central midfield for Scotland.

I'd have Dorrans and Fletcher/McCulloch if I had my own way. Dorrans to provide the creativity and Fletcher or McCulloch to provide the steel. The role we ask Fletcher to play for Scotland is absolutely alien to the role he played ten out of ten times for Man United.

I don't care enough about the Scotland team to agree/disagree with you mate.

Just think wee Naismith, going on the form he's showed for Rangers in an attacking central midfield role the few times he's played there might work for Scotland.

[papaguy51 912]

I don't care enough about the Scotland team to agree/disagree with you mate.

Just think wee Naismith, going on the form he's showed for Rangers in an attacking central midfield role the few times he's played there might work for Scotland.

I genuinely didn't give a fuck under Burley, but there's something I like about Levein. Certainly not his dress sense on the touchline, but he's very individualistic and I admire that.

Plus, a Scotland team that starts with 54.54% current Rangers players - I can't help but take an interest.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

It's not so much "taking an interest" for me, more like watching the game through the cracks of fingers. Especially in a 50-50 challenge.

[Guest SandyIniesta-Nordahl]

The fact when I go to the local 5-a-side pitches , I'm the only young person, which pretty much sums it up