A little bit of reality, please?

[SteveJ 743]

I have just returned from a short break in England and I deliberately stayed away from any SPL/SFL news, in order to enjoy the time with my family. That worked wonders and I return refreshed; if not a tad wet from the weather.

However, I now find that my fellow bears are now even more adamant that our club should begin it's SFL venture in the bottom league, if only to spite the other clubs and to watch them all fall flat on their arse. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it seems that my opinion does not match many other bears but I wonder if you guys are thinking clearly - and I ask that question with every ounce of respect due to you all?

I have no doubt in my mind that if Rangers go to division 3, we will fall as flat on our arse as the clubs that you guys seem to wish it on. Even if we do p/lay kids with YTS like wages, we have a stadium and a training complex to support but the club cannot demand £30 per game from their support. How do we do that with no major corporate sponsorship? How do we do that and balance the books, without asset stripping the newco?

Do we really wish to see the newco, which is now full of the assets that SDM stripped from us, fight through three divisions, only to return to the SPL with all of our assets stripped again and no team players of any value?

Do we really wish to return to the SPL as a mediocre team who cannot compete at the top level initially?

I am all for these clubs who hate everything that is Rangers, to get their arse kicked but should we not be thinking clever here? Should we not be thinking about what is right for Rangers and not what is right for each Rangers fan who hates a number of teams? Can we not push for Division 1 football, allowing us to keep a half decent team and the attraction for new players, whilst boycotting away games to hurt the opposition? With this, The Rangers keep some high profile corporates in the mix, gate prices at a reasonable level and the ability to return to the SPL with full assets and a team capable of competing.

I do respect the theory that some teams are a bunch of arseholes who deserve no help from Rangers or their fans, but we must consider the best option for The Rangers and if that means Div 1 and away game boycotts, we should do it.

[mrmytto 220]

To be honest, I'd pay the same price for a match ticket in the third division as I would for a match last season when we were in the SPL, as I go to watch Rangers and Rangers only.

So yeah, we should get charged around the same as last season for match tickets.

[corkinator 611]

I have just returned from a short break in England and I deliberately stayed away from any SPL/SFL news, in order to enjoy the time with my family. That worked wonders and I return refreshed; if not a tad wet from the weather.

However, I now find that my fellow bears are now even more adamant that our club should begin it's SFL venture in the bottom league, if only to spite the other clubs and to watch them all fall flat on their arse. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it seems that my opinion does not match many other bears but I wonder if you guys are thinking clearly - and I ask that question with every ounce of respect due to you all?

I have no doubt in my mind that if Rangers go to division 3, we will fall as flat on our arse as the clubs that you guys seem to wish it on. Even if we do p/lay kids with YTS like wages, we have a stadium and a training complex to support but the club cannot demand £30 per game from their support. How do we do that with no major corporate sponsorship? How do we do that and balance the books, without asset stripping the newco?

Do we really wish to see the newco, which is now full of the assets that SDM stripped from us, fight through three divisions, only to return to the SPL with all of our assets stripped again and no team players of any value?

Do we really wish to return to the SPL as a mediocre team who cannot compete at the top level initially?

I am all for these clubs who hate everything that is Rangers, to get their arse kicked but should we not be thinking clever here? Should we not be thinking about what is right for Rangers and not what is right for each Rangers fan who hates a number of teams? Can we not push for Division 1 football, allowing us to keep a half decent team and the attraction for new players, whilst boycotting away games to hurt the opposition? With this, The Rangers keep some high profile corporates in the mix, gate prices at a reasonable level and the ability to return to the SPL with full assets and a team capable of competing.

I do respect the theory that some teams are a bunch of arseholes who deserve no help from Rangers or their fans, but we must consider the best option for The Rangers and if that means Div 1 and away game boycotts, we should do it.

No

[rayq81 231]

The main problem I see is getting the bums on seats so to speak, in D3 we would almost certainly need to fill Ibrox for every game and I know everyone is saying they would go and pay the same money but I think the reality is that a lot of fans wont follow up and fill the seats and that will be the end of the road for Rangers as we know it, without the cash we cant function.

[Bad Robot 21,512]

I'm all for div 1 and have never bought into this div 3 as if it's going to stop the gloating. Div 1 we get stronger faster and we make sure the scum at the other side of the city don't have an easy road for the next decade. Get back to the top division after a year, get the fans to invest and take back what's rightly ours all within 2 years. We are Rangers fans, we don't do mediocre or running with the pack that's what makes us different from the rest and why we are number 1. We lead from the front not from the back, it's who we are, it's our history and it's our future.

[SimmetnDrawers 47]

Have to agree with you there.My initial thoughts on all of this were like the majority,let's go to the 3rd for all the obvious reasons,but the more i think about it what really matters is that Rangers survive and prosper.Going to the 3rd may cause irrepairable damage to us.Some bears seem to think that Rangers are too big too fail and with the support we have we will overcome all this adversity but the truth is we can't predict what Div 3 would do to us. Whilst i will never forget what they have done there will be ways to punish them when we are back where we belong, we can vote with our feet and hamstring them financially.Only now are the Mhedia and certain clubs beginning to realise the implications of the bloodlust and although i don't want them to gain financially from us in any way i don't want my team destroyed in the process.T

[North Rd 2,860]

We will never be in Div 3, That is reality, what you say in OP is mostly correct about it could destroy us, O'Regan will not allow it, but what makes me really angry is, That we get shoehorned into Div1 with sanctions and more sanctions that makes it hard for us to compete fairly.......

[Johnny Dangerously 7,565]

The main problem I see is getting the bums on seats so to speak, in D3 we would almost certainly need to fill Ibrox for every game and I know everyone is saying they would go and pay the same money but I think the reality is that a lot of fans wont follow up and fill the seats and that will be the end of the road for Rangers as we know it, without the cash we cant function.

We aint going to fill Ibrox for every game if we are in the 3rd div. Will probably after the novelty has worn off, get crowds around 20/30 thousand.

We will survive

[BRICKY1872 118]

To be honest, I'd pay the same price for a match ticket in the third division as I would for a match last season when we were in the SPL, as I go to watch Rangers and Rangers only.

So yeah, we should get charged around the same as last season for match tickets.

I think a lot of supporters would mate, but we are going to have to let whatever league we are in set the prices.

[joker69 60]

Firstly Div 3 will never happen these corrupt fucknuggets will make sure of that.

Regarding your post I understand your point but I am against division 1 not purely thought spite.

I am against this as the will impose more sanctions , poss illegal at that we do not deserve to be punished further.

I am wholly against the SPL doing what ever they fuck they like to our club.

It is time we told them to jog on and watch their ill conceived Rangers bashing unleash hell around them.

They want their cake and to eat it too well they can go fuck themselves.

We owe nothing after they way the governing bodies , media and majority of fellow clubs have treated us.

Div 3 please even thought it will never happen.

[nimrod 62]

We will never be in Div 3, That is reality, what you say in OP is mostly correct about it could destroy us, O'Regan will not allow it, but what makes me really angry is, That we get shoehorned into Div1 with sanctions and more sanctions that makes it hard for us to compete fairly.......

If the SFL vote us in Div 3, Regan can only scupper that by not issuing a licence. I sincerely hope he has to justify that sort of action because to put forward a case based on anything other than spiteful vindictiveness is gonna be a hard job.

If you take Rangers out of Scottish football you take 25,000 fans a week, on average, out of the Scottish footballing economy. At as little as £20 a head that's half a million a week just on fans spend. There's a knock on effect in whatever happens with TV money and sponsorship. How's he gonna justify that?

I'm also astounded that he can get away with declaring what HE's gonna do all the time, I'm pretty sure these decisions are taken by a group of people. This means he's pre-judging any decisions that will have to be taken by the SFA, clearly prejudicial to any process that we have to go through.

Regan is overtly displaying bias against Rangers which surely makes his position untenable. He is also having an adverse effect on any attempts that Rangers are making to recover financially. I don't know what this cunt has to do to get his jotters but I'm hoping we're getting near the last straw, the latest debacle might just be it.

If I was Rangers I'd be getting our QC stripped and warmed up ready to come on.

[Gitch 364]

I'd actually prefer the 3rd for footballing reasons.

We'll no doubt be stuck with a team of loyal players but the bulk will be young lads who haven't had much (if any) first team game time, so why not give them an apprenticeship in the lower leagues for 3 years?

It'd build up confidence and by the time we're back to the top league these lads will have experience and be ready to rattle right into the scummy bastards that left us to rot.

[mrmytto 220]

I think a lot of supporters would mate, but we are going to have to let whatever league we are in set the prices.

I know they would, but we shouldn't lower the prices by too much - as in the same price as other SFL 3 or SFL 1 clubs - otherwise we won't get anywhere.

The club can save money for when we get back into the SPL as well.

[Teamgers 1,214]

but the club cannot demand £30 per game from their support

I don't know where you get that figure from, it wasn't even that for a home game in the SPL last season, i'd be surprised if we were in Div 3 and the ticket cost was more than £20.

[WeDontDoWalkingAway1872 303]

I know they would, but we shouldn't lower the prices by too much - as in the same price as other SFL 3 or SFL 1 clubs - otherwise we won't get anywhere.

The club can save money for when we get back into the SPL as well.

Why is that as it is pish.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I would still prefer Div 3 for sporting integrity reasons.

But one thing's for sure, my opinion won't count when the decision is made.

[Ricky_ 893]

I have no doubt in my mind that if Rangers go to division 3, we will fall as flat on our arse as the clubs that you guys seem to wish it on. Even if we do p/lay kids with YTS like wages, we have a stadium and a training complex to support but the club cannot demand £30 per game from their support. How do we do that with no major corporate sponsorship? How do we do that and balance the books, without asset stripping the newco?

a few people have raised this point.... why do you think it's so expensive to pay to maintain and pay council tax on murray park & ibrox? Even in division 3 we will have attendances much greater than any other team in scotland, bar the tims. Also Tennants have claimed they are sticking with us. Regardles of which league we're in, a club as big as Rangers is still going to be a more attractive prospect for a sponsor than Aberdeen or Hearts. Our commercial value is still in the top 2 in this country. Charles Green & his investors also claim they will meet a target of £30m investment into the club, likely to be held back while we climb through Div 3 then 2. Do you honestly think we're not going to be able to fund the maintenance costs of 2 buildings given our vast resources? Our only other major outgoing is the wage bill, which will be structured accordingly. It's not an issue, infact it's very straight forward, make sure we at least break even while running away with Division 3 then 2.

Do we really wish to see the newco, which is now full of the assets that SDM stripped from us, fight through three divisions, only to return to the SPL with all of our assets stripped again and no team players of any value?

This doesnt make sense, what assets did SDM strip.... then bought back by Green? Asset stripping means SDM cashed out on certain assets, he never. He flogged the club for a quid then pissed off. Who knows how strong we will be upon return to the top division, the fact is we'll get there. A bigger worry is if there will even be a 'top division' at this rate.

I am all for these clubs who hate everything that is Rangers, to get their arse kicked but should we not be thinking clever here? Should we not be thinking about what is right for Rangers and not what is right for each Rangers fan who hates a number of teams? Can we not push for Division 1 football, allowing us to keep a half decent team and the attraction for new players, whilst boycotting away games to hurt the opposition? With this, The Rangers keep some high profile corporates in the mix, gate prices at a reasonable level and the ability to return to the SPL with full assets and a team capable of competing.

I do respect the theory that some teams are a bunch of arseholes who deserve no help from Rangers or their fans, but we must consider the best option for The Rangers and if that means Div 1 and away game boycotts, we should do it.

my opinion is that division 3 is better for Rangers, because division 1 has all kinds of consequences. It doesn't give Rangers sufficient enough time to rebuild a squad capable of winning the SPL, and it also means the SPL clubs can go forward with financial stability. Essentially, the other clubs get a much bigger head start than we do. Cletic can keep similar levels of income, and if they get through the CL qualifiers this season they would be in a much greater position financiallly than they have for years (after 4 seasons without CL group stage football).

By going to division 3, it gives us sufficient time to rebuild, we can come up with a 3-year busines splan to move through the leagues, have a 'conveyor belt' of players in/out which gradually increases in quality and increases in wage bill. If Charles Green is true to his word and has £30m to invest, then we should start filtering that money in when we reach Division 1 & then majorily strengthen upon return to the top league to create a team capable of winning the title.

in the meantime, our rivals are denied that 'head start' because the SPL will probably implode. We can watch as the other teams start dropping like flies. Nobody will be able to spend a single penny on their squads as the entire league collapses.

Even if we go to division 3, i dont think we'll need 3 promotions. I think the entire game will crumble & they will start again from scratch, with RFC & CFC in the top league, whatever for it takes.

[JCS 649]

I fully appreciate the OP's frustration, but this is not simply about punishing the SPL clubs and wishing our future away.

I have absolutely no desire to see us play in Division 3, but nor am I prepared to see us manipulated by the SPL clubs, the SFA and the SPL for their own selfish financial reasons.

Make no mistake, if there were not a significant financial rationale, we would be in Division 3 now.

This is about money, power and prestige and only a Rangers in Div 1, coming straight back up again, can give the SFA and the SPL exactly what they want after their refusal to countenence Rangers remaining in the SPL.

I don't give a jot what the SPL and the SFA think of us - and all things being equal, I would be happy to enter at Division 1 - but this issue has been 'politicised' well beyond or ability to respond. It is a battle we cannot win, because we no longer have any power or influence.

This is now a battle between the SFL and the SFA/SPL, and we are sitting on the sidelines unable to do anything but take the moral high ground.

This is the proverbial Hobson's choice - the choice that someone else will make for us whether we like it or not.

If it's Div 1, then so be it, but if the SFL clubs vote as they suggest they will it will be Div 3.

Most Rangers fans are attempting to occupy the moral high ground, and I have considerable sympahy with that. We all know the dangers in financial and footballing terms of banishment to Div 3, but we may not have a choice, so let's get on with it.

[AljayBoy 2,326]

I have just returned from a short break in England and I deliberately stayed away from any SPL/SFL news, in order to enjoy the time with my family. That worked wonders and I return refreshed; if not a tad wet from the weather.

However, I now find that my fellow bears are now even more adamant that our club should begin it's SFL venture in the bottom league, if only to spite the other clubs and to watch them all fall flat on their arse. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it seems that my opinion does not match many other bears but I wonder if you guys are thinking clearly - and I ask that question with every ounce of respect due to you all?

This is a bonus, but not the goal, or reward, of Rangers starting in Div3.

I have no doubt in my mind that if Rangers go to division 3, we will fall as flat on our arse as the clubs that you guys seem to wish it on. Even if we do p/lay kids with YTS like wages, we have a stadium and a training complex to support but the club cannot demand £30 per game from their support. How do we do that with no major corporate sponsorship? How do we do that and balance the books, without asset stripping the newco?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd imagine that the playing squads, the actual players, were the one area of the club which drains the resources faster than any other. The trade off of not being able to attract any decent players to playing in Div3 means we won't need to worry about paying these decent players decent wages. I refuse to believe that the Gers will "fall flat on our arse..." at all. It's not going to be easy, but with the support we have we've got a secure basis for the future.

Do we really wish to see the newco, which is now full of the assets that SDM stripped from us, fight through three divisions, only to return to the SPL with all of our assets stripped again and no team players of any value?

Do we really wish to return to the SPL as a mediocre team who cannot compete at the top level initially?

I don't see how making the journey from Div3 to the SPL would result in "…all of our assets stripped again…". The only scenario in which Rangers return to the top flight and are subject to innumerable and as yet, undocumented penalties and punishments, is if we do exactly as you say and only drop down to Div1. As part of the 'gift' of only being relegated to Div1, Rangers will have to agree to giving up their legal rights of appeal to any punishments etc which the SPL/SFA see fit to impose. This has been widely documented but you may have missed it being down south.

In other words, punish Rangers enough to keep them uncompetitive, but keep them in Div1 then the SPL to make money of them/us, the fans.

I am all for these clubs who hate everything that is Rangers, to get their arse kicked but should we not be thinking clever here? Should we not be thinking about what is right for Rangers and not what is right for each Rangers fan who hates a number of teams? Can we not push for Division 1 football, allowing us to keep a half decent team and the attraction for new players, whilst boycotting away games to hurt the opposition? With this, The Rangers keep some high profile corporates in the mix, gate prices at a reasonable level and the ability to return to the SPL with full assets and a team capable of competing.

I do respect the theory that some teams are a bunch of arseholes who deserve no help from Rangers or their fans, but we must consider the best option for The Rangers and if that means Div 1 and away game boycotts, we should do it.

What you have not touched on is the result of Div3 vs Div1 for the rest of Scottish football, but that is also an (some might say more important) aspect which deserves consideration.

If this football 'Armageddon' comes to pass, then it will be followed by much needed reorganisation and change within the SFA/SPL/SFL.

By going to Div1 and allowing the SPL to rescue the Sky deal etc, we're only delaying the inevitable by propping up a corrupt, disorganised and leaderless organisation.

Div3 on the other hand practically forces real change from the ground up. Yes clubs will run into trouble, and I sympathise with (some of) those fans. But if club finances are run with such a small margin of error, then there is something fundamentally wrong at the core, and new ways of running football clubs in Scotland need to be forced onto those clubs.

I should also include that by starting from Div3 we can hold our heads high and say that we took our punishment as deserved.

Div3 for me.

[SteveJ 743]

This doesnt make sense, what assets did SDM strip.... then bought back by Green? Asset stripping means SDM cashed out on certain assets, he never. He flogged the club for a quid then pissed off. Who knows how strong we will be upon return to the top division, the fact is we'll get there. A bigger worry is if there will even be a 'top division' at this rate.

Heading out, so cannot reply to all but this one.

SDM stripped many assets from Rangers over the years - catering and merchandise for a kick-off. These are now back in our hands and should be kept in house.

[Johnny Hubbard 280]

Division 3 will work as long as we take the advice of Gio and others from our Dutch contingent. Play and develop our youth.it's the way forward.

We will have to pay top prices at Ibrox however to keep the stadium and Auchenhowie operating

[CoatbridgeBear 7,113]

I would still prefer Div 3 for sporting integrity reasons.

But one thing's for sure, my opinion won't count when the decision is made.

Sporting integrity went out the window a long time ago mate...

[Big Al 55 9,324]

Even if we are in 3rd division which is now looking likely, I seriously doubt if we will have to work our way through the leagues to be returned to the top division (whatever it is called by then). I suspect when re-construction goes ahead we will have a top 16 PL at least, Rangers will be invited to participate in that regardless of their position within the league structure.

So 3rd for me... good luck to the diddy teams.

Although I hope Kilmarnock and Motherwell survive.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Sporting integrity went out the window a long time ago mate...

For some people, it certainly did....

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

I have just returned from a short break in England and I deliberately stayed away from any SPL/SFL news, in order to enjoy the time with my family. That worked wonders and I return refreshed; if not a tad wet from the weather.

However, I now find that my fellow bears are now even more adamant that our club should begin it's SFL venture in the bottom league, if only to spite the other clubs and to watch them all fall flat on their arse. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it seems that my opinion does not match many other bears but I wonder if you guys are thinking clearly - and I ask that question with every ounce of respect due to you all?

I have no doubt in my mind that if Rangers go to division 3, we will fall as flat on our arse as the clubs that you guys seem to wish it on. Even if we do p/lay kids with YTS like wages, we have a stadium and a training complex to support but the club cannot demand £30 per game from their support. How do we do that with no major corporate sponsorship? How do we do that and balance the books, without asset stripping the newco?

Do we really wish to see the newco, which is now full of the assets that SDM stripped from us, fight through three divisions, only to return to the SPL with all of our assets stripped again and no team players of any value?

Do we really wish to return to the SPL as a mediocre team who cannot compete at the top level initially?

I am all for these clubs who hate everything that is Rangers, to get their arse kicked but should we not be thinking clever here? Should we not be thinking about what is right for Rangers and not what is right for each Rangers fan who hates a number of teams? Can we not push for Division 1 football, allowing us to keep a half decent team and the attraction for new players, whilst boycotting away games to hurt the opposition? With this, The Rangers keep some high profile corporates in the mix, gate prices at a reasonable level and the ability to return to the SPL with full assets and a team capable of competing.

I do respect the theory that some teams are a bunch of arseholes who deserve no help from Rangers or their fans, but we must consider the best option for The Rangers and if that means Div 1 and away game boycotts, we should do it.

I pretty much agree with you. I don't think a dead league will do Rangers anything but harm in the long run. Scotland needs a strong league. Rangers need a strong league. Yes we have been kicked and bruised but the best way to get back at them is to win the SPL. I think being constructive rather than destructive is the way forward.