Atlantic League: Why is it so hard to push through!?

[The Godfather 72,083]

It's not going to happen anytime soon Ricky.

If I am wrong then I will be delighted but I have been around long enough to see stuff like this being mooted time and time again.

It's as Turnberry said 'Pie in the sky' stuff.

[OLE SUPER WILBERT 2,475]

You are a Visionary and Pioneer Ricky.

Its a magnificent set up and there are talks continualy I believe on this topic.

Ricky a pioneer ahahahaha

[Ricky_ 893]

Ricky a pioneer ahahahaha

[OLE SUPER WILBERT 2,475]

What a strange post.

[Ricky_ 893]

It's not going to happen anytime soon Ricky.

If I am wrong then I will be delighted but I have been around long enough to see stuff like this being mooted time and time again.

It's as Turnberry said 'Pie in the sky' stuff.

perhaps, but like i said in the OP, the penny is starting to drop. Anderlecht are threatening to resign belgian football & apply to france if a Beneliga isn't pushed through & Ukraine is merging with Russia. Countries across Europe are starting to 'get it', that they are going to be left behind to the money making machines in England & Spain if they don't create a product capable of competing. Somebody needs to take the bull by the horns and make something happen.

[Ricky_ 893]

What a strange post.

likewise.

[The Godfather 72,083]

perhaps, but like i said in the OP, the penny is starting to drop. Anderlecht are threatening to resign belgian football & apply to france if a Beneliga isn't pushed through & Ukraine is merging with Russia. Countries across Europe are starting to 'get it', that they are going to be left behind to the money making machines in England & Spain if they don't create a product capable of competing. Somebody needs to take the bull by the horns and make something happen.

It's something that should have happened as the other leagues have grown stronger (Germany, Spain, England, Italy to some extent) while Scotland, Belgium, Holland ect have been left in the dark.

However there are many issues with it and as with everthing this large it will take years before a plan is even set up and then more years before it could be put into place.

How long are we looking at IF this will happen? I'd wager we would be back at the top league and in Europe before this moves to a stage where it could be considered possible.

That's just my take on it.

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

It looks great on paper, but i have never once heard of any of these clubs wanting to join this league. They have been talking about it here for 20 years and nothing has ever happened.

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

It looks great on paper, but i have never once heard of any of these clubs wanting to join this league. They have been talking about it here for 20 years and nothing has ever happened.

Actually i take it back

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_League_%28football%29

[Ricky_ 893]

Actually i take it back

http://en.wikipedia....ague_(football)

hadn't seen that article before but it was strange to read that someone essentially put forward exactly what i posted in the OP... 10 years ago!

The directors of these clubs should just get round a table in a fancy hotel conference room in Paris or something and discuss this - even if UEFA opposed the idea, where would it leave them if 20 top european sides simultaneously handed in their resignations?

[Uncle Fester 186]

Is it reasonable to expect 5 clubs to quit Netherlands and Portugal and 4 clubs to quit Belgium?

Where would that leave their national associations?

The clubs themselves are actively looking to form this league, once agreement is reached all clubs would then resign from their respective leagues but only if sanctioned by EUFA.

[topgoalie 637]

The champions league is the PRIME EXAMPLE the disdain UEFA hold for clubs of these countrys.To have the champions of Scotland play two qualifiers,and the champions of Sweden three,yet fast track three from other countrys is a joke.Surely the CHAMPIONS league should consist of champions

[govanblue 16,847]

The clubs themselves are actively looking to form this league, once agreement is reached all clubs would then resign from their respective leagues but only if sanctioned by EUFA.

But would they not need approval from their own associations too?

And my point is, which league would say "yes we're happy to lose our top 5 clubs"?

I'm not trying to throw spanners in the works - I'm fully in favour (and very excited at the prospect) of an Atlantic league.

[Briton 394]

To me any new tournament should run alongside national leagues and UEFA competitions. A bit like the Royal League. It would mean playing far fewer games in the home leagues of course.

[Ricky_ 893]

To me any new tournament should run alongside national leagues and UEFA competitions. A bit like the Royal League. It would mean playing far fewer games in the home leagues of course.

!? why, the whole point of it is that the domestic leagues are imbalanced, have no integrtiy as contests, and decided upon in the long term by business success. When you think about it, domestic leagues have very little in the way of sporting merit, certainly not on a par with the Champions League, which, is also effected a little now with the same issues. There is no long term prosperous future for large clubs in small domestic leagues.

[Briton 394]

!? why, the whole point of it is that the domestic leagues are imbalanced, have no integrtiy as contests,

You mean like the BPL? Only a few clubs have any chance of winning that...even less in La Liga. There will be teams in any 'Atlantic League' (got to find a new name) who have little chance of actually winning it.

and decided upon in the long term by business success. When you think about it, domestic leagues have very little in the way of sporting merit, certainly not on a par with the Champions League, which, is also effected a little now with the same issues. There is no long term prosperous future for large clubs in small domestic leagues.

If national leagues are still contested (as well as UEFA competitions) there would be a much better chance of actually getting it off the ground. You could also have qualification/promotion/relegation, which I think is essential.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,959]

I've always hated the idea of this "Atlantic League" and despite our current predicament I still hate it.

[Briton 394]

I've always hated the idea of this "Atlantic League" and despite our current predicament I still hate it.

I thought it was the way forward from the first. It's been obvious for years that the bigger clubs in smaller countries have had their status slashed and it's likely only going to get worse. Never been confident it will actually happen though.

[Ricky_ 893]

You mean like the BPL? Only a few clubs have any chance of winning that...even less in La Liga. There will be teams in any 'Atlantic League' (got to find a new name) who have little chance of actually winning it.

If national leagues are still contested (as well as UEFA competitions) there would be a much better chance of actually getting it off the ground. You could also have qualification/promotion/relegation, which I think is essential.

Yes, and thats why these leagues are fundamentally flawed. What is the point in teams like Reading participating in the BPL again? There's as much point as putting a 3 legged horse in the grand national.

Unofrtunatly it's something that is engrained into the thick skulls of football fans that having leagues where realistically only 3 or 4 clubs on average actually have a chance of winning it. Why the fuck did this ever become acceptable?

Look at the OP, the whole point is that we have 20 clubs of similar size, with the average stadia capacity at 40k & is built on a socialist model with evenly distrubuted wealth & no relegation brings back the integrity to a league competition where every runner has a chance. How can you say that if PSV, Ajax, Rangers, Celtic, Porto, Benfica, Copenhagen are all bringing in very similar revenue, that 1 of those teams is much more likely to win the league than another? That's the whole point, it's a fair competition built on sporting merit.

And promotion/relegation is not essential, it's a dated concept that does more harm than good - it allows bigger fish to mingle with small fish which is how our game got into this state in the first place. But again, relegation/promotion is something that is engrained into the thick skulls of most football fans.

[govanblue 16,847]

I've always hated the idea of this "Atlantic League" and despite our current predicament I still hate it.

Do you have any reasons for hating it? It would be good to hear some of them.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

It's been spoke about for some time, but it seems as though that changes are happening across Europe.

It looks as though that Russia are about to merge with the Ukraine to create a new league in an effort to create a bigger and better product. The penny is finally dropping that for the most part, the domestic leagues in Europe outside of England/Wales, France, Spain, Germany & Italy are simply too small to compete. That leaves a hell of alot of countries consistantly trailing these leagues, and in truth, given the capitalist nature of this sport, the gap will only continue to widen as it has exponentially over the last 10 years.

European countries need to merge to create a league in which it's big fish can escape the small ponds, leaving the small pond to populated with suitable fish - allowing those fish thrive without the sharks, and the sharks to thrive in a tank with other sharks .

That to me spells out an Atlantic league where clubs with stadiums of around roughly of 30k+ should be formed. This means the clubs are supported well enough and established enough to bring the audience to the product.

The countries i'd include would e: Scotland, Portugal, Holland, Belgium, & a few of the giants stuck with the minnows in Scandinavia

Geographically that doesn't cover a huge area, infact alot smaller than that of european competition. Ourselves, Holland & Belgium would be rather central, with the greatest distance being Portugal to Norway/Sweden, which ofcourse is nowhere near the sort of distance that would need to be travelled in a European tie against a Russian or Turkish side.

So which clubs should be invited?

Rangers, SCO, 51,082

(i'd prefer the tims weren't invited & left to rot in their filthy mire, but they probably would be, so i'll include them reluctantly for now)

C*ltic, SCO, 60,000

AIK, SWE, 54,392

Rosenborg, NOR, 21,850

FC Copenhagen, DEN, 42,385

Brondby, DEN, 26,180

Ajax, NED, 52,960

PSV, NED, 35,119

Twente, NED, 30,014

Feyenoord, NED, 51,777

Vitesse, NED, 28,278

Anderlecht, BELG, 26,361

Club Brugge, BELG, 29,042

Standard Liege, BELG, 29,388

Genk, BELG, 24,604

Porto, PTG, 50,399

Benfica, PTG, 65,647

Braga, PTG, 30,268

Sporting Lisbon, PTG, 50,466

Academica, PTG, 30,075

That makes 20 teams.

There probably would be a slight gulf between the top clubs with 50k+ capacity like ourselves and Ajax against the slightly smaller clubs like Vitesse, but overall it be a pretty open, hard fought & close league.

Given that it's a new set-up, it could also adopt a more socialist model than we're used to seeing to keep the competition even and teams roughly on an even keel. A straight cut of TV coverage & money, and perhaps a 70/30 gate split in favor of the home team on all games. Also an even cut of the leagues sponsorships, it would attract sponsorships from all over Europe given the exposure, so be passing on an equal cut to all the teams could help emulate the riches of leagues such as the German or English set-up.

There would be the peace of mind for club owners that there would never be any relegation and that with a more socialist set-up it's unlikely to be any major financial gulf between teams, so every season brings it's own chances to win the league. 20 Teams could pose an issue competing in cups, but the cup set-up could be 4 groups of 5, randomly drawn, with the top 2 going through to form a knock-out last 8.

The clubs could also apply to participate in their countries domestic cup - for example, the Scottish or League cup for us - if our domestic FA's were interested in doing so.

A few figures:

The teams above cover 7 countries in western Europe, those countries have a combined population of 63.32 million.

The combined capactiy of the stadiums of the 20 teams above is 790,284 with an average stadium capactiy of 40,000. I would have to look into but i don't suspect there would another league in Europe with that kind of average capacity, meaning this league would have the means to break European attendance records.

I believe the furthest distance would be Lisbon to AIK, in Stockholm. 34 Hours by Car, 2237miles.

The shortest journey would be us vs our honking neighbours. The league woudl maintain several rivalries, noticably ourselves, Ajax/Feyenoord/PSV, Porto/Benfica, and would perhaps breed new ones, such as Rosenborg/AIK/Copenhagen.

football needs change, and it needs it fast, so the big question is, what exactly is the main road block for a league like this to be set-up and rescue our game?

The rest of the teams in Scotland we know woudl love this to go through, Scottish football would become competitive again, who knows what the minnows could achieve with the big 2 gone in this country, and that same philosophy applies in the other leagues mentioned above.

It's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Not much to fault BUT it is all been desired before but never happen- each country wants to hold onto their 'big fish' so organisations like the SFA, would be against it, and as such so are UEFA (and FIFA) but at some point that self interest has to change - but would probably take a legal challenge to make it happen. You would think that under EU rules UEFA should not be able to prevent it (Providing all countries are in EU) but you can also see the big countries (like Engerland) being against it as it would rival their league. Thats a lot of opposition - but someone like Green may just have the tenacity and skill to help pull something like this together.

[allcinaye 336]

At the moment the possibility of an Atlantic League remains just that, a ‘possibility’.

However, I think we are all being a little presumptuous here in considering an answer to the question of this thread.

Firstly, is there a need for this type of league and I do not mean from our perspective.

Do any of the other various clubs mentioned have a need or even a desire for this type of league set up?

Perhaps it would be better to first find out directly if there is any interest elsewhere before considering all the many details involved in putting this type of format together.

[govanblue 16,847]

At the moment the possibility of an Atlantic League remains just that, a ‘possibility’.

However, I think we are all being a little presumptuous here in considering an answer to the question of this thread.

Firstly, is there a need for this type of league and I do not mean from our perspective.

Do any of the other various clubs mentioned have a need or even a desire for this type of league set up?

Perhaps it would be better to first find out directly if there is any interest elsewhere before considering all the many details involved in putting this type of format together.

I think your questions have already been answered, and the answers are yes and yes

[Ricky_ 893]

Not much to fault BUT it is all been desired before but never happen- each country wants to hold onto their 'big fish' so organisations like the SFA, would be against it, and as such so are UEFA (and FIFA) but at some point that self interest has to change - but would probably take a legal challenge to make it happen. You would think that under EU rules UEFA should not be able to prevent it (Providing all countries are in EU) but you can also see the big countries (like Engerland) being against it as it would rival their league. Thats a lot of opposition - but someone like Green may just have the tenacity and skill to help pull something like this together.

Indeed BP, Govanblue pointed out in the very first reply that FA's may fight to keep hold of their big fish.

But think about this for a second...

The proposed league brings together 20 of the biggest clubs from & european countries with a target audience globally (consider how much interest the BPL has and it has and the bottom half is pretty pish). Now think positvely about how successful a league could like this could be from a commercial perspective.

Now consider this, the SPL pays the SFL £2m a year in compensation in part of the original deal which brokered the SPL away from the SFL.

For me, i can envision an 'everyones a winner' type scenario where-by the 'Atlantic league', potentially a league that can reach or surpass BPL levels of commercial success, is then relaying a % to revenue to the domestic FA's which has licenced or permitted its' members to participate. It could then leave the domestic FA's in Scotland, Portgual, Holland, etc... with a sizeable pot every year to re-invest in the game at domestic level, invest in youth academies, bring through better players, improve their national sides - but ultimately, have a better domestic level product.

There's no doubt in my mind a scenario like the one above would vastly improve the scottish game. With us & the tims gone, the SPL would be wide open, ICT could win it one year, Kilmarnock the next. With the funding relayed from the Atlantic league, the SPL could become a superior product, more fans through the gates, greater investment at grass root level, etc...

[allcinaye 336]

I think your questions have already been answered, and the answers are yes and yes

Well then let's go for it.

Procrastination is the thief of time.

Don't let the grass grow beneath our feet, after all look how rapidly things transpired for our Club in last year.