Atlantic League: Why is it so hard to push through!?

[Ricky_ 893]

Logistically I can see it being a nightmare but the longer teams in our position continue to dwindle in inferior leagues, the further we'll fall behind the top Premier League teams and Barca/Madrid (etc). The implementation of the financial fair play rules may actually help speed this along. Here's hoping - wouldn't mind seeing us against Ajax again - wouldn't mind an annual trip.

in this day & age i dont think it's a logistic nightmare, European football has been going on for long enough that we've grown used to travelling longer distances. In america the round trips for teams & fans for NFL, baseball, etc... it much greater than average journey this league would throw up.

An Atlantic set-up like this woudl actually throw up potential for a travel company or a new company to set-up exclusively for supporters travelling between Portugal - Scotland/Belgium/Holland - Scandinavia.

[S1lv3r 274]

You sure you're in the right thread s1lv3r?

Erm..... yeah, I think so

Well this Atlantic League thing .... argh , I heard and chatted about this same thing around 15 years ago (if memory serves). Sir David talked about it a few times after we were out of european footy and tbh i just put it all down to trying to appease the fans... telling us that our game here was poor and we couldn't expect to compete with the big-wigs as long as we stayed in the spl ?

Nothing changes it seems ?

Taigs were spouting it a few months back about joining England's set-up ... Murray did this too before being told that this was a no go-er as no club can step into another country to ply its trade... so he came up with this North Atlantic deal... which as we all know was a non-starter.

We are quite obviously not in europe and find ourselves in the crap teir of our own set-up.... we then spout about England a few weeks ago and now it's back to gibbering about an Atlantic league..... it's all pants tbh.

You HAVE to ply your trade in your own country.... FIFA ruling, nout to do with UEFA either.

I went on about the crap footy players simply because THIS is why the talk about joining other country's leagues or starting a new league set-up altogether started before (Murray).... this time round it's cos' of monies or maybe something hidden by sfa and/or others.

Bottom line is the game IS crap, we have even worse players plying their trade in our leagues AND we maybe have the spl and/or others trying to do the dirty on us... yeah...(as I read and write) I may be indeed on the wrong thread.... apologies to all, srry.

[Jonok 1,245]

It seems as though the Beneliga are looking for more teams to join. http://www.talksport...eneliga-188998?

[Marco 1,477]

in this day & age i dont think it's a logistic nightmare, European football has been going on for long enough that we've grown used to travelling longer distances. In america the round trips for teams & fans for NFL, baseball, etc... it much greater than average journey this league would throw up.

An Atlantic set-up like this woudl actually throw up potential for a travel company or a new company to set-up exclusively for supporters travelling between Portugal - Scotland/Belgium/Holland - Scandinavia.

Sorry mate, should have been clearly. I believe it would be a logistical nightmare in terms of the 20 clubs invited to play. I'd expect lengthy discussions regarding the issue and it would be some time before anything concrete surfaced. In terms of fans, you're right - I'd be well up for a fair trips.

[govanblue 16,847]

Erm..... yeah, I think so

Well this Atlantic League thing .... argh ,...

The difference between then and now though is that back then the SPL didn't want to let us go

Today, the SPL don't want us, just our money - so we have no option but to look for a setup where we would be welcomed and treated fairly.

And that line about having to ply your trade in the country you're based is complete mince.

If a club wants to join a different league, and that league wants them, and the club's existing league don't want them, then it is a fait accompli.

[Ricky_ 893]

The difference between then and now though is that back then the SPL didn't want to let us go

Today, the SPL don't want us, just our money - so we have no option to look for a setup where we would be welcomed and treated fairly.

And that line about having to ply your trade in the country you're based is complete mince.

If a club wants to join a different league, and that league wants them, and the club's existing league don't want them, then it is a fait accompli.

indeed, merging is a trend we're going to see happen all over europe. Russia and Ukraine are in the process of doing so. Wales has merged with England for years by taking on it's only 2 sizeable clubs. The rest of wales would perhaps be beneficial creating an celtic league with the rest of scotland & ireland.

[nachothelegend 1,932]

It's been spoke about for some time, but it seems as though that changes are happening across Europe.

It looks as though that Russia are about to merge with the Ukraine to create a new league in an effort to create a bigger and better product. The penny is finally dropping that for the most part, the domestic leagues in Europe outside of England/Wales, France, Spain, Germany & Italy are simply too small to compete. That leaves a hell of alot of countries consistantly trailing these leagues, and in truth, given the capitalist nature of this sport, the gap will only continue to widen as it has exponentially over the last 10 years.

European countries need to merge to create a league in which it's big fish can escape the small ponds, leaving the small pond to populated with suitable fish - allowing those fish thrive without the sharks, and the sharks to thrive in a tank with other sharks .

That to me spells out an Atlantic league where clubs with stadiums of around roughly of 30k+ should be formed. This means the clubs are supported well enough and established enough to bring the audience to the product.

The countries i'd include would e: Scotland, Portugal, Holland, Belgium, & a few of the giants stuck with the minnows in Scandinavia

Geographically that doesn't cover a huge area, infact alot smaller than that of european competition. Ourselves, Holland & Belgium would be rather central, with the greatest distance being Portugal to Norway/Sweden, which ofcourse is nowhere near the sort of distance that would need to be travelled in a European tie against a Russian or Turkish side.

So which clubs should be invited?

Rangers, SCO, 51,082

(i'd prefer the tims weren't invited & left to rot in their filthy mire, but they probably would be, so i'll include them reluctantly for now)

C*ltic, SCO, 60,000

AIK, SWE, 54,392

Rosenborg, NOR, 21,850

FC Copenhagen, DEN, 42,385

Brondby, DEN, 26,180

Ajax, NED, 52,960

PSV, NED, 35,119

Twente, NED, 30,014

Feyenoord, NED, 51,777

Vitesse, NED, 28,278

Anderlecht, BELG, 26,361

Club Brugge, BELG, 29,042

Standard Liege, BELG, 29,388

Genk, BELG, 24,604

Porto, PTG, 50,399

Benfica, PTG, 65,647

Braga, PTG, 30,268

Sporting Lisbon, PTG, 50,466

Academica, PTG, 30,075

That makes 20 teams.

There probably would be a slight gulf between the top clubs with 50k+ capacity like ourselves and Ajax against the slightly smaller clubs like Vitesse, but overall it be a pretty open, hard fought & close league.

Given that it's a new set-up, it could also adopt a more socialist model than we're used to seeing to keep the competition even and teams roughly on an even keel. A straight cut of TV coverage & money, and perhaps a 70/30 gate split in favor of the home team on all games. Also an even cut of the leagues sponsorships, it would attract sponsorships from all over Europe given the exposure, so be passing on an equal cut to all the teams could help emulate the riches of leagues such as the German or English set-up.

There would be the peace of mind for club owners that there would never be any relegation and that with a more socialist set-up it's unlikely to be any major financial gulf between teams, so every season brings it's own chances to win the league. 20 Teams could pose an issue competing in cups, but the cup set-up could be 4 groups of 5, randomly drawn, with the top 2 going through to form a knock-out last 8.

The clubs could also apply to participate in their countries domestic cup - for example, the Scottish or League cup for us - if our domestic FA's were interested in doing so.

A few figures:

The teams above cover 7 countries in western Europe, those countries have a combined population of 63.32 million.

The combined capactiy of the stadiums of the 20 teams above is 790,284 with an average stadium capactiy of 40,000. I would have to look into but i don't suspect there would another league in Europe with that kind of average capacity, meaning this league would have the means to break European attendance records.

I believe the furthest distance would be Lisbon to AIK, in Stockholm. 34 Hours by Car, 2237miles.

The shortest journey would be us vs our honking neighbours. The league woudl maintain several rivalries, noticably ourselves, Ajax/Feyenoord/PSV, Porto/Benfica, and would perhaps breed new ones, such as Rosenborg/AIK/Copenhagen.

football needs change, and it needs it fast, so the big question is, what exactly is the main road block for a league like this to be set-up and rescue our game?

The rest of the teams in Scotland we know woudl love this to go through, Scottish football would become competitive again, who knows what the minnows could achieve with the big 2 gone in this country, and that same philosophy applies in the other leagues mentioned above.

It's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

You are a Visionary and Pioneer Ricky.

Its a magnificent set up and there are talks continualy I believe on this topic.

[topgoalie 637]

The most prominent teams of these countrys have had enough of UEFA with their joke of a CHAMPIONS league.UEFA will need to learn that they NEED the clubs more than the clubs need them.NOW is the time for change,just watch UEFA change their structure if any of this looks like coming to fruition.The top clubs are sick of subsidising the lesser ones as well.Take Benfica for example.,they have a fanbase of around 14 million,not to mention the unbeleivable amount of members they have;going to places like Maritimo and Nacional who can barely attract a couple of thousand spectators,irs a no brainer....

[nachothelegend 1,932]

indeed, merging is a trend we're going to see happen all over europe. Russia and Ukraine are in the process of doing so. Wales has merged with England for years by taking on it's only 2 sizeable clubs. The rest of wales would perhaps be beneficial creating an celtic league with the rest of scotland & ireland.

The Yugoslavian states are discussing similar also.

[trublusince1982 768]

would there be relegation?

how would it work 2 leagues of ten?

[govanblue 16,847]

would there be relegation?

Mate, you know how it works in the Atlantic...

[Guest]

The thought of playing Ajax or Benfica at 3 on a Saturday afternoon

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

Erm..... yeah, I think so

Well this Atlantic League thing .... argh , I heard and chatted about this same thing around 15 years ago (if memory serves). Sir David talked about it a few times after we were out of european footy and tbh i just put it all down to trying to appease the fans... telling us that our game here was poor and we couldn't expect to compete with the big-wigs as long as we stayed in the spl ?

Nothing changes it seems ?

Taigs were spouting it a few months back about joining England's set-up ... Murray did this too before being told that this was a no go-er as no club can step into another country to ply its trade... so he came up with this North Atlantic deal... which as we all know was a non-starter.

We are quite obviously not in europe and find ourselves in the crap teir of our own set-up.... we then spout about England a few weeks ago and now it's back to gibbering about an Atlantic league..... it's all pants tbh.

You HAVE to ply your trade in your own country.... FIFA ruling, nout to do with UEFA either.

I went on about the crap footy players simply because THIS is why the talk about joining other country's leagues or starting a new league set-up altogether started before (Murray).... this time round it's cos' of monies or maybe something hidden by sfa and/or others.

Bottom line is the game IS crap, we have even worse players plying their trade in our leagues AND we maybe have the spl and/or others trying to do the dirty on us... yeah...(as I read and write) I may be indeed on the wrong thread.... apologies to all, srry.

And for the 2nd time tonight, what about Swansea City playing in the EPL and possibly Cardiff city playing in the EPL next season?

What about Berwick Rangers playing in Scotland when they are an English club? That is alot of shite that you can't play in another countries league as it has been proved you can.

[govanblue 16,847]

What about trialling it with a mini Atlantic League (like a Europa group stage) during the summer months?

That way we don't need to leave our associations, and we can see if we all fancy it.

And yes I know that Portugal's bloody hot in the Summer, so maybe they can come here!

[cushynumber 25,178]

The phrase you are looking for is "compelling event". In order for something like this to go ahead there has to be a compelling event to make clubs want to change what they are doing at the moment and move to an Atlantic league. So far there hasnt been one.

We now have one.

[Ricky_ 893]

would there be relegation?

how would it work 2 leagues of ten?

I've always been a fan of the American franchise, socialist models, like the NFL and the MLS. They have been expanded over the years to allow new teams to join provided they have suitable resources, fanbase, stadia, etc... but nobody is ever tossed around divisions.

I really don't understand the need for relegation this day in age - what exactly does it achieve? I can see why it was first thought up in the early 20th century, football clubs were just simple clubs for leisure & recreation, not multi-million pound business enterprises, so there had to be a pyramid system to divide the best from the weakest.

now we know who is the best and who is the weakest... it relates to size, resources & revenues. So we need to create and divide competition on to an even keel - the whole premise of creating an Atlantic league.

[topgoalie 637]

I've always been a fan of the American franchise, socialist models, like the NFL and the MLS. They have been expanded over the years to allow new teams to join provided they have suitable resources, fanbase, stadia, etc... but nobody is ever tossed around divisions.

I really don't understand the need for relegation this day in age - what exactly does it achieve? I can see why it was first thought up in the early 20th century, football clubs were just simple clubs for leisure & recreation, not multi-million pound business enterprises, so there had to be a pyramid system to divide the best from the weakest.

now we know who is the best and who is the weakest... it relates to size, resources & revenues. So we need to create and divide competition on to an even keel - the whole premise of creating an Atlantic league.

You have been bang on in everything you have said Ricky.Ofcourse it is doable,PSV were the first team to mute this as far back as 2001,they feared that they would be left behind in terms of financial revenue,how correct they were,and are.They contacted other clubs over Europe with large fanbases,ie Rangers.Beleive it or not Celtic were seemingly the most receptive to the idea.So do not think for a minute that they are still not actively involved on leaving these shores.We should be stealing a march on them,and now is as good a time as ever.UEFA then intervened with their proposed shake up of the UEFA Cup,now ofcourse the extended Europa League,to compromise these clubs.We should have told them then,what we should tell them now,go and take a hike,because what has changed in European circles since.Correct NOTHING,its still the same old,same old.LETS GET THIS DONE AND FCK UEFA..............

[Turnberry18 3,204]

That Atlantic League is pie in the sky.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

I suppose the only problem with the atlantic league is that it's European football but without the English, Spanish, Italians and Germans who of course are the biggest draws ... so it does sort of fall between stools for me because it has all the logistical problems of Europe but without a lot of the glamour

[ayrshiregers 10]

On paper it does look a great idea , and yeah we would all love it.

In reality its nothing but a pipe dream and UEFA and FIFA have much bigger things to deal with in their eyes.

[baxterboy 476]

You'd have to doubt it... good as it looks.

DeBoer was only on the news earlier on saying Rangers have to be in Scotland given that we are Scottish etc..... he isn't for it.

I'd doubt very much, in fact I'd put my house on no one in Portugal ever wanting to leave their own league, no need.

It's a non-starter for me.

well, if it is frank de boer you're talkin about then why is he in favour of a beneliga - a league comprised of dutch and belgian teams.

http://www.insidefut...ue-calls/58348/

he cant argue on the one hand- that Rangers have to be in scotland because they are scottish and, on the other, support ajax playing in belgium.

duh!.

[Ricky_ 893]

I suppose the only problem with the atlantic league is that it's European football but without the English, Spanish, Italians and Germans who of course are the biggest draws ... so it does sort of fall between stools for me because it has all the logistical problems of Europe but without a lot of the glamour

without the glamour? it could potentially be the most glamourous league in europe given the room for growth teams like ourselves and ajax would then have to become true european superpowers.

it's how football should be - the odds every season on teams winning the league would be rather close together. Why have we came to accept in this day & age league contests around europe where we have 3 or 4 teams perhaps, who are short favourites of 3/1 5/1 range, with 6 or 7 'smaller' teams at 500/1, 1000/1.... ?

isn't the whole point of a "division" to keep teams competing at the same level? There's barely a single league in Europe that has any integrity.

[The Godfather 72,082]

That Atlantic League is pie in the sky.

Things like this have been talked about for more than 10 years now and we are no closer to it than we were way back when.

We are where we are and that aint gonna change anytime soon sadly, we just need to get on with it as there is really no other option at present.

[Ricky_ 893]

Things like this have been talked about for more than 10 years now and we are no closer to it than we were way back when.

We are where we are and that aint gonna change anytime soon sadly, we just need to get on with it as there is really no other option at present.

no it's not, Anderlecht, PSV & Ajax have already agreed in principle to form a Beneliga. The whole point is to create competition between bigger teams thus generating more revenue. Why would they not want to therefore involve other big clubs only a short distance away? We're only a ferry ride away from Holland & Belgium - Copenhagen of Denmark is also a similarly short distance but bring a 42k seater stadium to the party. They're also a club stuck in a league of minnows which they win pretty much every season.

The Benelige + ourselves and 1 or 2 nearby scandinavian league teams that have outgrown their leagues isn't far fetched at all. Including the Portugese is probably the least likely aspect, but even without those teams it still makes for a strong league - certainly a much better option than whats currently on offer for teams like Rangers, Ajax, PSV, Anderlecht, Copenhagen, AIK.

[docspiderman 1,234]

The answer is that no one wants it,would not be feasible if as an addition to current set ups,would not be feasible as a stand alone league outside UEFA.. Because our team has a problem does not mean that other teams in other countries are going to turn everything upside down to accommodate us.