there'sonlyoneamoruso 1,724 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 There would be an issue because of the various broadcasters to this idea.The BBC have the league cup tv rights - Sky have the SPL.Introducing old firm games into the league cup would be great for the BBC - but do nothing for Sky.Currently this is true, but when does the BBC contract end? If only one league body would this contract be binding? I think there are obstacles, but nothing too big that a workaround cannot be agreed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Certainly would be worth giving this a shot, but reconstruction was now or never apparently. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan C 39 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 why cant we have 16-12-12 set up the top league would be home and away for 30 games, havethe split as in the top 6 who would play home and away for 40 games.The bottom ten play each other once giving them 39 games, the 1 game difference shouldnt matteras effectively its splitting into two leagues, the bottom clubs would be involved in a play off systemwhich would generate more t.v coverage and make up for the 1 game less.Surely their would be greater competition to make the top 6 as just now teams just see it as an extragame against the old firm.What's stopping us following the new model the Polish have adopted? Top league of 16. Play each team twice, then split into top and bottom 8, give 37 games each. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cushynumber 25,178 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Currently this is true, but when does the BBC contract end? If only one league body would this contract be binding? I think there are obstacles, but nothing too big that a workaround cannot be agreed.No its a fundamental flaw in the argument. There is nothing then to stop Sky then simply buying the TV rights to the league cup to ensure some old firm games - there would be no requirement for them to buy the SPL rights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFarmer 260 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Why havent we just went with the mcleish report?10-10-regional Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBluenose1972 1,405 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I think the majority of football fans in Scotland (minus the hate Rangers over the big picture brigade) will be happy that 12-12-18 has been rejected. It was a stupid set up that was so convoluted that it defeats the principles of a League. The one thing I cant understand is why the positive things, that Im sure we all agree with, redistribution of money (if there is any), play-off system, one league body etc cant be implemented under the current structure whilst working on a larger league set up that the overwhelming majority of fans want.....and to paraphrase the words of Stephen Thomson....any business that doesn't listen to its customers is doomed to failure.I have heard many reasons why a 16 or an 18 wouldn't work and it always seems to come back to both finance and the need for the 4 old firms for any TV deal. A very simple solution to this (I know we dont do simple in this country) would be to rejig the league cup. If we went with a top flight of 16....everyone plays home and away (just like in Portugal) that would give each team 15 home games guaranteed....The addition of play-offs for relegation places will increase that for some clubs as well.If we rejig the league cup to a champions league type format with regionalised sections of 4 (i.e - Rangers, Celtic, Partick and QP) with the top two qualifing for the knockout stage it would give each club a further 3 guaranteed home games taking it to the current number of 18.......The fact these games will be derbys will surely bring in bigger crowds and it would also mean Sky would have their 4 Edinburgh/Old Firm Derbies.Under this system there would be no need for any split and and with teams only playig each other twice there would be a greater uptake in tickets for certain games. The concept of meaningless games is banded about but ultimately every league has "meaningless games" but that doesnt mean they arent good or exciting games and only visiting a ground once a season would hopefully encourage fans to go regardless of the importance of the game especially if their team is playing well.I personally think this would be a simple proposal for our top flight and one that meets the wishes of the majority of fans.....would it work? If not why and why has something like this never been suggested by the SFA?.....Not keen tbh, The league cup should be abolished imo Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC Eagle 4,888 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I'm strongly in favour of a 16 team league and I think the League Cup idea is an excellent one.Two top leagues of 16, with the 4 regional tiers below that is the best solution. Two up, two down automatically, with a playoff between 14th and 3rd, while the four regional champions gets promoted to the second tier at the expense of teams 13-16.That gives variety, which seems to be exactly what the fans want. Plus, more teams benefit from matches against Rangers and Celtic.The only issue is with regionalisation. You only have to look at the English system to see the potential issues. The Conference (North) includes Oxford City and Bishops Stortford as well as Workington and Colwyn Bay! It would almost certainly mean moving teams around the regional leagues every year which is unlikely to be popular. There are junior teams that want to enter the system so why not 3 leagues of 16? I'm sure there would be 6 applicants from the lower leagues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer93 15,129 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 What's stopping us following the new model the Polish have adopted? Top league of 16. Play each team twice, then split into top and bottom 8, give 37 games each.simply because when we are back you could never have the league decided by either of the old firm having the home advantage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooper1972 29 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I think the majority of football fans in Scotland (minus the hate Rangers over the big picture brigade) will be happy that 12-12-18 has been rejected. It was a stupid set up that was so convoluted that it defeats the principles of a League. The one thing I cant understand is why the positive things, that Im sure we all agree with, redistribution of money (if there is any), play-off system, one league body etc cant be implemented under the current structure whilst working on a larger league set up that the overwhelming majority of fans want.....and to paraphrase the words of Stephen Thomson....any business that doesn't listen to its customers is doomed to failure.I have heard many reasons why a 16 or an 18 wouldn't work and it always seems to come back to both finance and the need for the 4 old firms for any TV deal. A very simple solution to this (I know we dont do simple in this country) would be to rejig the league cup. If we went with a top flight of 16....everyone plays home and away (just like in Portugal) that would give each team 15 home games guaranteed....The addition of play-offs for relegation places will increase that for some clubs as well.If we rejig the league cup to a champions league type format with regionalised sections of 4 (i.e - Rangers, Celtic, Partick and QP) with the top two qualifing for the knockout stage it would give each club a further 3 guaranteed home games taking it to the current number of 18.......The fact these games will be derbys will surely bring in bigger crowds and it would also mean Sky would have their 4 Edinburgh/Old Firm Derbies.Under this system there would be no need for any split and and with teams only playig each other twice there would be a greater uptake in tickets for certain games. The concept of meaningless games is banded about but ultimately every league has "meaningless games" but that doesnt mean they arent good or exciting games and only visiting a ground once a season would hopefully encourage fans to go regardless of the importance of the game especially if their team is playing well.I personally think this would be a simple proposal for our top flight and one that meets the wishes of the majority of fans.....would it work? If not why and why has something like this never been suggested by the SFA?.....why is everybody being so negative about this idea, i think it sounds great, only playing these teams twice in the league im up for that, league cup has all ways been piss but this makes it a bit more interesting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
there'sonlyoneamoruso 1,724 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 No its a fundamental flaw in the argument. There is nothing then to stop Sky then simply buying the TV rights to the league cup to ensure some old firm games - there would be no requirement for them to buy the SPL rights.If we are under one body, why would they sell the league cup rights to a different provider? Surely the point is to package this up together to sell to the fans and tv as a new exciting way to get the number of games they want and a bigger league? They would be mad to do it separately. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cushynumber 25,178 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 If we are under one body, why would they sell the league cup rights to a different provider? Surely the point is to package this up together to sell to the fans and tv as a new exciting way to get the number of games they want and a bigger league? They would be mad to do it separately.but we are not under one body - the meeting yesterday seen to that. Therefore they are sold seperately. Look, I like the idea in theory - but the way the leagues and the seperate TV rights are set up make it impractical. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofthenet 2 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 This...Amalgamate the bodies, then discuss the reconstruction together. Its still baffling as to why any no vote for the proposed structure should mean no single body going forward.Keep the leagues as they are for now and have another relegation/promotion slot via play offs.Hardly rocket science is it?The reason I believe it had to be 12-12-18 or nothing is that this set up potentially creates a closed shop at the top league. 9 times out of ten when the bottom 4 of the premier go into the middle 8 they will finish in the top placings and will not get relegated. This is the holy grail for SPL chairmen as they can relax in the fact that the chance of being relegated is greatly reduced. The other measures are simply a smokescreen to get SFL clubs on side and peddle the myth that what they are doing is for the benefit of the entire game. In reality they couldn't care less about fairer distribution of money, pyramid structure, one body etc Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomber 177 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 why can`t we have 3 leagues of 14,playing each other twice =28 games.then have a split of top 7 and bottom 7 playing each other home and away = 40 games.either do away with the league cup or not or make it acompetition for under 21s!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cushynumber 25,178 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 The reason I believe it had to be 12-12-18 or nothing is that this set up potentially creates a closed shop at the top league. 9 times out of ten when the bottom 4 of the premier go into the middle 8 they will finish in the top placings and will not get relegated. This is the holy grail for SPL chairmen as they can relax in the fact that the chance of being relegated is greatly reduced.The other measures are simply a smokescreen to get SFL clubs on side and peddle the myth that what they are doing is for the benefit of the entire game. In reality they couldn't care less about fairer distribution of money, pyramid structure, one body etcadd in that reconstruction was also to sky happy - and thats it in a nutshell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFarmer 260 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 why can`t we have 3 leagues of 14,playing each other twice =28 games.then have a split of top 7 and bottom 7 playing each other home and away = 40 games.either do away with the league cup or not or make it acompetition for under 21s!!!Would be 38 games, not 40.But aye i quite like that setup, much fairer split and better than the status quo, with same amoubt of games. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
there'sonlyoneamoruso 1,724 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 but we are not under one body - the meeting yesterday seen to that. Therefore they are sold seperately. Look, I like the idea in theory - but the way the leagues and the seperate TV rights are set up make it impractical.I am talking about in the OPs version where we are under one body. You are talking about the current setup, and I agree that in the current setup it cannot happen. If the bodies amalgamated why could we not go down this route? I still don't fully understand why yesterday was all or nothing. Surely some aspects could be implemented and we could step slowly towards better future rather than the leap into the dark they wanted yesterday? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock 42 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 14-14-14 for me.Split into a top 6 and bottom 8 after 26 games. 4 up and 4 down 2 of which are play offs.Simples. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I think the majority of football fans in Scotland (minus the hate Rangers over the big picture brigade) will be happy that 12-12-18 has been rejected. It was a stupid set up that was so convoluted that it defeats the principles of a League. The one thing I cant understand is why the positive things, that Im sure we all agree with, redistribution of money (if there is any), play-off system, one league body etc cant be implemented under the current structure whilst working on a larger league set up that the overwhelming majority of fans want.....and to paraphrase the words of Stephen Thomson....any business that doesn't listen to its customers is doomed to failure.I have heard many reasons why a 16 or an 18 wouldn't work and it always seems to come back to both finance and the need for the 4 old firms for any TV deal. A very simple solution to this (I know we dont do simple in this country) would be to rejig the league cup. If we went with a top flight of 16....everyone plays home and away (just like in Portugal) that would give each team 15 home games guaranteed....The addition of play-offs for relegation places will increase that for some clubs as well.If we rejig the league cup to a champions league type format with regionalised sections of 4 (i.e - Rangers, Celtic, Partick and QP) with the top two qualifing for the knockout stage it would give each club a further 3 guaranteed home games taking it to the current number of 18.......The fact these games will be derbys will surely bring in bigger crowds and it would also mean Sky would have their 4 Edinburgh/Old Firm Derbies.Under this system there would be no need for any split and and with teams only playig each other twice there would be a greater uptake in tickets for certain games. The concept of meaningless games is banded about but ultimately every league has "meaningless games" but that doesnt mean they arent good or exciting games and only visiting a ground once a season would hopefully encourage fans to go regardless of the importance of the game especially if their team is playing well.I personally think this would be a simple proposal for our top flight and one that meets the wishes of the majority of fans.....would it work? If not why and why has something like this never been suggested by the SFA?.....queens park and Patrick would be ecstatic but the others perhaps not so the sheep regional of Abadeen Ict Ross county and Elgin? sounds fun! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan C 39 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 simply because when we are back you could never have the league decided by either of theold firm having the home advantage.Ah fair point, that didn't even occur to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cushynumber 25,178 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I am talking about in the OPs version where we are under one body. You are talking about the current setup, and I agree that in the current setup it cannot happen. If the bodies amalgamated why could we not go down this route? I still don't fully understand why yesterday was all or nothing. Surely some aspects could be implemented and we could step slowly towards better future rather than the leap into the dark they wanted yesterday?I agree with the single body - to me it makes sense. Unfortunatley it would appear that people like holding onto the power that they have even if it is for the detriment of scottish football and I think we need to take small steps.The league cup to facilitate old firm games in the short term is a non starter though. Take away TV rights - in 3 years when we are in the same league as them we could be seeing too many old firm games Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofthenet 2 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I am talking about in the OPs version where we are under one body. You are talking about the current setup, and I agree that in the current setup it cannot happen. If the bodies amalgamated why could we not go down this route? I still don't fully understand why yesterday was all or nothing. Surely some aspects could be implemented and we could step slowly towards better future rather than the leap into the dark they wanted yesterday?Because the it is not in the SPL's interest to implement these changes without the promise of safeguarding TV money and creating a closed shop top division so that no one is relegated from it.In any other country, if change was so desperately need as it is here, you would expect the country's FA to step and make sure it happened. Unfortunately the SFA dose not have the leadership, courage and integrity to do so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarkev 3,540 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 If you were going to have such a complex Cup competition it might as well be The Scottish Cup. The League Cup should be ditched all together.I wouldn't say it's complex mate.....sections of 4....two through to a knockout....if you start doing it in the FA cup it becomes more difficult with all the qualifying rounds etc... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarkev 3,540 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 There would be an issue because of the various broadcasters to this idea.The BBC have the league cup tv rights - Sky have the SPL.Introducing old firm games into the league cup would be great for the BBC - but do nothing for Sky.But again if its a new body then the tv deals could be renegotiated to incorporate the sectional part of any proposed change to the league cup..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarkev 3,540 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 queens park and Patrick would be ecstatic but the others perhaps not so the sheep regional of Abadeen Ict Ross county and Elgin? sounds fun!Maybe not fun for us but for they fans it would be....Ayr vs killie is hardly el Classico but for those fans it would be a big occasion... As it stands the early rounds of the league cup attract very few fans but if they were derby games there would be an improved attendance....the game has to be more about the fans and if we can get more fans in the door then finances will improve.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow argyle 1,093 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 What's stopping us following the new model the Polish have adopted? Top league of 16. Play each team twice, then split into top and bottom 8, give 37 games each.that would only cause more accusations after split, 7 games 4 home 3 away? or vice versa, when we return to the top, the last O.F. game Ibrox or Porkheid?:not ideal IMO Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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