Fan or a detractor? You decide

[AlBear. 8,499]

Why?

Coz I fucking said so.

[simplythebest 11,453]

What a load of patronising bullshit.

[The Educator 1,572]

And what do you expect Rangers fans to discuss on a Rangers Forum which discusses all thing Rangers ?

I agree we are here to discuss, not dismember. The trouble is though some don't know where constructive criticism ends and total savagery begins. I don't think it's much of a discussion when the same wee group of members endlessly resort to calling fans "taigs" because they can't better them in a discussion. Some times in a discussion you prove your point, other times the other guy does, that's just a part of life.

Just look at the way some use the term "a Rangers Man" as if it was a crime. Smith and McCoist in my view will go down in history amongst the greatest "Rangers Men" of all time, sure we will all disagree with some of their actions at some time, but what we have seen here from a minority I might add is just plain and needless savagery.

[WadeWilson 4,670]

It is our dooty as fans, to question dah management and running of our cloob. It's an unquestioning, hope-everythings-going-okay-but-cant-bother-to-find-out hand-wringing that let Shyte and his ilk do what they did.

Wee knobs like you make me wish I was neck-wringing.

[simplythebest 11,453]

I agree we are here to discuss, not dismember. The trouble is though some don't know where constructive criticism ends and total savagery begins. I don't think it's much of a discussion when the same wee group of members endlessly resort to calling fans "taigs" because they can't better them in a discussion. Some times in a discussion you prove your point, other times the other guy does, that's just a part of life.

Just look at the way some use the term "a Rangers Man" as if it was a crime. Smith and McCoist in my view will go down in history amongst the greatest "Rangers Men" of all time, sure we will all disagree with some of their actions at some time, but what we have seen here from a minority I might add is just plain and needless savagery.

The term 'Rangers men' is used in such a manner because these individuals, in a business and ownership sense anyway, consistently let us down at a time when we needed help the most, and that includes that bizarre bid that Smith lead after the CVA rejection.

Yet we still have supporters pining after these people and wanting them to oust the likes of Charles Green, the ones who actually put up and saved the club. So that has all made me rather cynical about the whole idea of 'Rangers men' where the boardroom is concerned.

You're also clearly exaggerating this "savagery" idea, the occasional poster can go too far with name calling etc but generally it's fair criticism and not letting reputation or 'Rangers men' status cloud the judgement.

[General Smiley 494]

Coz I fucking said so.

Wee knobs like you make me wish I was neck-wringing.

Excellent, substantive points. :lol:

[The Educator 1,572]

Yet we still have supporters pining after these people and wanting them to oust the likes of Charles Green,

You're also clearly exaggerating this "savagery" idea, the occasional poster can go too far with name calling etc but generally it's fair criticism and not letting reputation or 'Rangers men' status cloud the judgement.

Did anybody oust Green? From what I could see he decided to leave after making one too many sound bites. As for the fans who have declared open season on Smith and McCoist I said they were a minority, but they are a very, very vocal minority so I disagree that I'm exaggerating.

[eejay the dj 31,964]

Her Majesty the Queen once spoke of her 'Annus Horibbilis' to describe a Year of Horrors for her and her family, a term which could aptly refer to the difficult and challenging time this club and its supporters have endured.

A year where the SPL, SFA, SFL, HMRC, Media, Politicians and many others have felt duty bound to have their say on this great institution. A year of slander, ridicule and punishment, often wrapped up in a nice green bow called 'Sporting Integrity'.

As a collective we have taken it all on the chin and refused to be beaten by our detractors.

The term fan is defined as "A person who is enthusiastically devoted".

As I move through several FANsites including RM I note the many threads vigourously question the Management Team, Players, Board and Employees and their ability to do their jobs correctly.

These are aeas of our club which our enemies, our foes, peruse on a daily basis in order to manufacture mistrust and attempt to further belittle this great club.

For everything Rangers has given us, a lifetime of memories to hand over to our children and Grand children, I say as a fan they have earned our devotion.

As fans, do we leave the negativity and untruths to our detractors and challenge them as strongly as we can or are we doing there job for them?

Fan or Detractor?, its your call.

Up until 18months ago I would have given the benifit of doubt to most at our club .At present the people in control deserve our mistrust and for some our contempt .

[simplythebest 11,453]

Did anybody oust Green? From what I could see he decided to leave after making one too many sound bites. As for the fans who have declared open season on Smith and McCoist I said they were a minority, but they are a very, very vocal minority so I disagree that I'm exaggerating.

When Whyte's allegations came about do you think Green was given much benefit of the doubt or support from other board members? The suggestions were pretty strong that Malcolm Murray and others wanted him gone regardless of what the internal investigation came to. I know none of us can say for sure what went on but IMO it's clear there was a more to it than a simple resignation and that Green was at least partially pushed.

It's far too easy to tar everyone with the same brush though i think, when as you seem to say yourself it's a minority that go down an abuse type route. Someone like myself is very skeptical about Walter being involved at boardroom level but I'd never start calling him names. Same with questioning Ally as a manager.

[will_1974 204]

I feel guilty every time I am critical of Ally and his coaching staff. Ally has proved so many people wrong in his career.

So much so I expect him to prove his doubters wrong again.

[simplythebest 11,453]

I feel guilty every time I am critical of Ally and his coaching staff. Ally has proved so many people wrong in his career.

So much so I expect him to prove his doubters wrong again.

Coaching and playing are very different.

Also why should you feel guilty?

[will_1974 204]

Coaching and playing are very different.

Also why should you feel guilty?

As a player he proved people wrong - as a manager he might do the same.

I feel guilty because the man is Mr Rangers. I was privileged to see him play and score for Rangers on hundreds of occasions.

Maybe it was something I heard Jimmy Nicholl say today on the radio. But I've went full circle and ally has a clean slate and 100% backing from me.

[CalvinC 1,414]

This always makes me laugh.

Our greatest trait as a club is winning. Most people care more about our team winning than not asking any questions of the management, players and coaches.

Why shouldn't we if we want the best for the club? It's pathetic that your all of a sudden seen as a detractor because you dare question under-performers at our club. It's an shite, old, dated, dignified mindset that has got us nowhere.

I could flip it and say shite performances & results and settling for them is more akin to being a taig - as they enjoy that sort of thing.

Agreed.

[simplythebest 11,453]

As a player he proved people wrong - as a manager he might do the same.

I feel guilty because the man is Mr Rangers. I was privileged to see him play and score for Rangers on hundreds of occasions.

Maybe it was something I heard Jimmy Nicholl say today on the radio. But I've went full circle and ally has a clean slate and 100% backing from me.

He might do but the fact he did as a player has no bearing on the possibilities.

The playing legend and the manager have to be looked at separately, nothing can ever take away that Ally is an ultimate Rangers legend (I'm uncomfortable with the term 'Mr Rangers' for anyone personally) but we're surely on a slippery slope if we aren't judging managers on actual football management?

That's not to say I think everyone should want him to be sacked or resign currently but surely you accept the idea that he has something to prove this season after two not so good ones (to put it mildly)? How can he have a clean slate after two years in the job? Why should you as a paying fan (I'm assuming you put money in somehow) not criticise him while still able to give backing at the same time?

I think some need to remember it's Rangers we are supporting and not Ally McCoist.

[Stoorie 1,088]

Up until 18months ago I would have given the benifit of doubt to most at our club .At present the people in control deserve our mistrust and for some our contempt .

"Mistrust" and "Contempt" for everyone in control at Rangers?

That's what your telling us, yes?

If you have underpinning truths of why, everyone at the club is untrustworthy or contemptible, please put your views up for discussion.

Otherwise, you could get the name of detractor, or worse.

[will_1974 204]

He might do but the fact he did as a player has no bearing on the possibilities.

The playing legend and the manager have to be looked at separately, nothing can ever take away that Ally is an ultimate Rangers legend (I'm uncomfortable with the term 'Mr Rangers' for anyone personally) but we're surely on a slippery slope if we aren't judging managers on actual football management?

That's not to say I think everyone should want him to be sacked or resign currently but surely you accept the idea that he has something to prove this season after two not so good ones (to put it mildly)? How can he have a clean slate after two years in the job? Why should you as a paying fan (I'm assuming you put money in somehow) not criticise him while still able to give backing at the same time?

I think some need to remember it's Rangers we are supporting and not Ally McCoist.

You are right, he does have something to prove. But he deserves the chance to do so now the club is more stable. Jimmy Nich spoke about Ally's heart and character, and about his awareness as a player. I think ally needed the last two years to toughen up as a manager. The same way his spell at Sunderland and as a sub for Rangers did as a player.

[WWTC 2,257]

Perhaps it's our upbringing re freedom of opinion and speech that the immigrants lack. So really you are saying that a fan is not a fan if he questions.......the ability of the Mangager because he/they think the football is crap?

Also the same for in the eyes of many, for players playing below their best more often than not and as for the board dear god man.

We support a football club that doesnt ask, but demands certain things from anyone involved within it. If those demands arent met then it must be questioned and rectified, without exception. Its part of the traditions of our club. Rangers will always be about winning, winning & winning.

"Do not enter unless you are ready to put yourself second – and that should be the one and only time that second is good enough”

Fine words from a fine man.

[AlBear. 8,499]

I think some need to remember it's Rangers we are supporting and not Ally McCoist.

While he's Rangers manager they are the same thing.

[tannerall 25,935]

Silly thread. We are Rangers fans but we do not follow blindly. We want what is best for Rangers as a whole and if certain parts of our great institution are seen to be working inadequately then we comment on this.

This melting pot of opinion is well evident on this forum with various differences amongst our fans opinions. I believe that this is crucial in our development, as long as the criticism is constructive.

We are the people, we will always be the people, and people have a right to differing opinions. We are not all Neil Lemmon.

[Edmiston Drive 3,846]

We support a football club that doesnt ask, but demands certain things from anyone involved within it. If those demands arent met then it must be questioned and rectified, without exception. Its part of the traditions of our club. Rangers will always be about winning, winning & winning.

"Do not enter unless you are ready to put yourself second – and that should be the one and only time that second is good enough"

Fine words from a fine man.

Cheers Bud, when did I say that again?

[simplythebest 11,453]

While he's Rangers manager they are the same thing.

The club is bigger than any individual.

[AlBear. 8,499]

The club is bigger than any individual.

Nice cliche. If you support Rangers then surely the Rangers manager is worthy of some of that support?

[simplythebest 11,453]

You are right, he does have something to prove. But he deserves the chance to do so now the club is more stable. Jimmy Nich spoke about Ally's heart and character, and about his awareness as a player. I think ally needed the last two years to toughen up as a manager. The same way his spell at Sunderland and as a sub for Rangers did as a player.

Hopefully you're right, I just can't see it right now. He had years as Walter's apprentice to apparently prepare him. Then many thought going down to the lower leagues would be the making of Ally as a manager, yet I didn't see the progress last season at all, and most of his talk seems to be about buying players to solve all the problems.

I can't just forget the last couple of seasons happened but i do accept he will be our manager going into next season, so lets hope he can deliver some football the fans deserve.

[simplythebest 11,453]

Nice cliche. If you support Rangers then surely the Rangers manager is worthy of some of that support?

A cliche I'm sure Ally McCoist himself agrees with.

[AlBear. 8,499]

A cliche I'm sure Ally McCoist himself agrees with.

Despite what a very small minority on here think, we all agree. Don't worry, I won't push you to answer the question.